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Testekill posted:There was this football game called Backbreaker that used the Euphoria engine. It's pretty barebones and has no official license but dudes ragdoll so much in tackles and everyone just eats poo poo when they get hit. In a just world Backbreaker would have been the new NFL Blitz but they only released the first game and a mini game collection.
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Apr 18, 2020 06:33
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Croccers posted:The minigame collection was a super rad game to play couch coop-/vs, but I think it was 360 only, and to make it even smaller, only on the Arcade or whatever it was called. It was on the PS3 also. Servers were still running as of mid 2018 so that might still be an option for arcadey nonsense.
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Apr 18, 2020 10:59
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Wasn't there a football (soccer) game that used Euphoria as well? Or at least a similar physics system? I recall seeing those goofy gifs of players stumbling comically into each other in a loving embrace and stuff.
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Apr 18, 2020 11:03
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No, that was actually FIFA 19. They changed the engine to Frostbite and it made for some of these silly gifs. Works as intended 99% of the time, there's just a lot of people playing Fifa, so someone hit a few edge cases. ... I think that was 19. There was some fuckery with one version getting Frostbite on consoles but not on PC and pc getting it a full year later, so I have no clue when the change happened on which platform.
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Apr 18, 2020 11:58
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Kikas posted:No, that was actually FIFA 19. They changed the engine to Frostbite and it made for some of these silly gifs.
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Apr 18, 2020 12:15
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Frostbite caused a lot of EA a lot of problems. Upper management mandated that every single game be pivoted to it, probably because they owned DICE so they didn't have to pay any licensing. Problem is that Frostbite is basically awful at everything that isn't exactly the kind of shooter DICE makes, so most of the resulting games have been hit-and-miss at best. It's a big contributing factor to both Anthem and Mass Effect Andromeda's problems, because you can basically guarantee that if any kind of game's going to push an engine to its limits it's an overambitious RPG.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:06
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Huh, I knew it was Frostbite in FIFA but always thought it might've been Euphoria handling the character physics.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:15
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Cleretic posted:Frostbite caused a lot of EA a lot of problems. Upper management mandated that every single game be pivoted to it, probably because they owned DICE so they didn't have to pay any licensing. Problem is that Frostbite is basically awful at everything that isn't exactly the kind of shooter DICE makes, so most of the resulting games have been hit-and-miss at best. It's not that Frostbite is a terrible engine (well, actually, it kind of is - even DICE has trouble wrangling it into shape) but it lacks proper documentation, support and it was really never designed to be very flexible or modular. DICE made it as an engine for running Battlefield, and nothing else, so it's not surprising that it's missing various features that you absolutely need for RPGs or sports games or whatever. You'd probably have a similarly fun time trying to turn Source into an engine for RPGs or sports games. Meanwhile, Unreal for example is designed with wide usage in mind so it's already better-equipped to handle a variety of different titles (even if apparently Unreal didn't even support two-wheeled vehicles out of the box according to the Days Gone devs) and is widely used, has good documentation and support available (it's a paid product, after all) and is continually improved.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:16
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Ruflux posted:You'd probably have a similarly fun time trying to turn Source into an engine for RPGs or sports games. I'm sure this is the exact problem troika games had with Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines. Nevermind that licensing agreement that Half Life 2 had to release first.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:22
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Lord Lambeth posted:I'm sure this is the exact problem troika games had with Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines. Nevermind that licensing agreement that Half Life 2 had to release first. That said, people clearly pulled it off eventually, as you can see with Dota 2, and... I mean, I'm going to call E.Y.E. Divine Cybermancy a successful attempt at what it was trying to do, I just don't know what it was doing. I didn't actually know those specifics about Frostbite, though, thanks!
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Apr 18, 2020 13:32
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Cleretic posted:That said, people clearly pulled it off eventually, as you can see with Dota 2, and... I mean, I'm going to call E.Y.E. Divine Cybermancy a successful attempt at what it was trying to do, I just don't know what it was doing.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:40
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Does Deus Ex: Invisible War still have it's engine restart while you're playing it? I actually bought it recently after having played all other mainline deus exes.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:55
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Lord Lambeth posted:Does Deus Ex: Invisible War still have it's engine restart while you're playing it? I actually bought it recently after having played all other mainline deus exes. There's a thing to make it less uh janky but yeah it does. The "Flesh Engine" was a mess quote:Actually, it was a heavily modified version of Unreal Engine 2, disgustingly dubbed the Flesh Engine (Unreal 2 was made on Unreal Engine 2.5 iirc). The limitations weren’t because of Unreal Engine 2, but because of the fact that the architect/lead programmer of the Flesh engine departed part of the way through the project and left behind no documentation, leaving both the Thief and the Deus Ex teams to work with a semi-broken engine that the programmer they hired to rework could only partially fix, due to the lack of documentation. The unfinished modifications to the engine also stripped it of a lot of things (like the ability to render and process water, oddly), and pushed the limitations of the amount of memory on the Xbox. The game was developed with the Xbox in mind, because Eidos and Ion Storm wanted to expand both Thief and Deus Ex series into the profitable console space, with PC capabilities of the time a complete non-concern. Which, I guess, makes it bad design. The reloading thing is due to hitting the Xbox' RAM limit and the poor bastard who took up the mantle not having the resources to fix it.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:09
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Cleretic posted:Problem is that Frostbite is basically awful at everything that isn't exactly the kind of shooter DICE makes, so most of the resulting games have been hit-and-miss at best. Don’t worry it’s pretty awful at that too A AAA developer on a series that they’ve been making for 2 decades: 
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Apr 18, 2020 19:08
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What game is that?
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Apr 18, 2020 19:09
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Battlefield V.
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Apr 18, 2020 19:20
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I'd believe it's Battlefield 1 or V, both have horrible horrible menus. So that's why they used that godawful Battle log browser extention for BF3 and 4...
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Apr 18, 2020 19:20
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the sense I get is that code is a patchwork of duct tape and chicken wire that miraculously manages to function. especially with the complex behemoths that modern games have become.
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Apr 18, 2020 19:35
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When you can't even add additional UI elements because the number of playlists is hardcoded in the engine to the point that the developers have no idea how to access or change it, then it's more of a piece of trash hackjob than usual for the industry.
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Apr 18, 2020 19:38
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Lord Lambeth posted:the sense I get is that code is a patchwork of duct tape and chicken wire that miraculously manages to function. So So that's where radium went
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Apr 18, 2020 19:48
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the thing that drives me nuts and seems to keep happening over and over again is game logic is tied to framerate. the dark souls pc port had something like double damage or double weapon degradation or something when people modded it to run at 60fps because it determined those things by the number of frames where a weapon intersected with a target or some poo poo like that. I make loving phone apps and I'd be fired for putting business logic values in the ui
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Apr 18, 2020 19:54
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stuffed crust punk posted:the thing that drives me nuts and seems to keep happening over and over again is game logic is tied to framerate. the dark souls pc port had something like double damage or double weapon degradation or something when people modded it to run at 60fps because it determined those things by the number of frames where a weapon intersected with a target or some poo poo like that. I make loving phone apps and I'd be fired for putting business logic values in the ui You'd think devs would have figured this out ages ago. It's not exactly a new problem, going back to game logic tied to clock rate and suddenly a game runs at light fuckin speed on a newer computer, thus turbo buttons and all that jazz. I'll always remember Cyberstorm 1/2, some  strategy sim games in the Starsiege pre-Tribes universe where you commanded a mercenary band of not-mechs (HERCs!). It was a hybrid game where you could choose real time or turn based (at least, the second one). Well, by the time I got the game turn based was the only option because real time ran at some mega time compression thanks to the improved hardware of the time. The mission would load in, enemy forces would zip over like the Flash, boom my guys explode, mission failed. All in, like, a second.The game came out in '98. how is stuff like this still a problem
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Apr 18, 2020 20:05
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stuffed crust punk posted:the thing that drives me nuts and seems to keep happening over and over again is game logic is tied to framerate. the dark souls pc port had something like double damage or double weapon degradation or something when people modded it to run at 60fps because it determined those things by the number of frames where a weapon intersected with a target or some poo poo like that. I make loving phone apps and I'd be fired for putting business logic values in the ui Fallout 3 (or 4? maybe both?) had physics tied to frame rate, so dropping a piece of junk would be different speeds based on what your hardware could handle.
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Apr 18, 2020 20:11
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I always kind of wondered if there's maybe some technical reason why it makes sense to do that kind of thing. Like, that physics calculations don't really need to be done more than once per frame, because that's just how far the object can realistically move in that time anyway.
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Apr 18, 2020 20:13
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stuffed crust punk posted:the thing that drives me nuts and seems to keep happening over and over again is game logic is tied to framerate. the dark souls pc port had something like double damage or double weapon degradation or something when people modded it to run at 60fps because it determined those things by the number of frames where a weapon intersected with a target or some poo poo like that. I make loving phone apps and I'd be fired for putting business logic values in the ui Related to this: arbitrary resolution support and resolution independent UI scaling. GTA motherfucking 2 had this poo poo figured out in 1999, but there's still lovely PC ports that lack support for the former and various big name AAA titles missing the latter released to this day. It's absurd what a non-problem it is, but it's still not "solved" if you ask a lot of devs. e: ironically enough GTA2 has a frame limiter set at 30 or thereabouts because going over that makes the game go all superspeed, while the GTA3 era GTA PC ports have a neverending list of things that break when you disable the frame limiter, including minor stuff like vehicle physics or time
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Apr 18, 2020 20:49
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Funnily enough, yesterday I played/beat the first Evoland since someone I know said they liked it better than 2 and I figured maybe my opinion might have changed since 2013-15 (it hadn't, at least concerning the first game), and an issue I ran into in the final battle is that apparently the higher the refresh rate on my screen, the slower I moved, which at 240hz was way too slow to evade the boss' attacks. When I saw people talk about it on the steam forums and lowered my screen to 60hz my character suddenly started zooming around the arena, the change was insane.
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Apr 18, 2020 21:19
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Cardiovorax posted:I always kind of wondered if there's maybe some technical reason why it makes sense to do that kind of thing. Like, that physics calculations don't really need to be done more than once per frame, because that's just how far the object can realistically move in that time anyway. Tying something to the framerate means that you don’t have to include any variation in your changes over time. It makes more sense if the entire game is set up that way, so you can go frame-by-frame in discrete steps like a really fast board game. Stuff like the Dark Souls glitches happen because most of the game is set to use time-based changes, but some random objects or systems are coded otherwise, probably just due to bad coding habits. It’s less of a “solved problem, technology is better than this” situation and more that the code isn’t consistent throughout the game.
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Apr 18, 2020 21:22
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https://medium.com/@tglaiel/how-to-make-your-game-run-at-60fps-24c61210fe75 is a good article on how even timing isn't always as clear cut as it should be, especially for smaller games.
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Apr 18, 2020 21:26
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Dewgy posted:Tying something to the framerate means that you don’t have to include any variation in your changes over time. It makes more sense if the entire game is set up that way, so you can go frame-by-frame in discrete steps like a really fast board game. spongeh posted:https://medium.com/@tglaiel/how-to-make-your-game-run-at-60fps-24c61210fe75 is a good article on how even timing isn't always as clear cut as it should be, especially for smaller games.
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Apr 18, 2020 21:27
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While we're on it, howabout parts of games (like menus) with completely uncapped framerates. The main menu in Starcraft 2 when it came out nearly melted my laptop since it would gobble up all available resources to push hundreds of frames just cause it wasn't told not to.
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Apr 18, 2020 21:50
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God, yes, that is annoying. There is an obnoxious number of games that I can never leave running on the menu because they will try melt my graphics card.
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Apr 18, 2020 21:52
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It's really common on consoles too. My PS4 can handle gameplay just fine running quiet, but leave it at the map screen or inventory and it'll sound like a jet engine in no time.
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Apr 18, 2020 22:00
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The map screen from the last God of War was infamous for making PS4s sound like jets.
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Apr 18, 2020 22:02
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Which is doubly weird because it's a really beautiful and otherwise pretty well-optimized game.
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Apr 18, 2020 22:04
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Yeah, I'd expect it from cross-platform or third party publishers more than first party studios. I think Horizon Zero Dawn did that too and it actually had 60fps menus and 30fps gameplay on base PS4.
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Apr 18, 2020 22:08
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Cerny described why that happens in that ps5 architecture talk, i forget why tho
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Apr 18, 2020 22:17
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I've had that happen to me with both American Truck Simulator and Euro Truck Simulator. Games run well even at high settings no matter how fast you're driving and how quick new scenery has to be loaded, but the second you pause the game and are on the menu screen, the graphics card goes into overdrive. I think they improved things in recent updates, but it used to be very bad.
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Apr 18, 2020 23:38
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I know that it's expected for an MDickie game to break but New Legacy broke Wrestling Revolution 3D in an amazing way. They got everyone fired from a company except for two other people and now the game is booking poo poo like clones of wrestlers reffing their own matches or a a four way with three clones of the same character. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg0AHM0CykA&t=8272s edit: So they might have been saved by how the game broke. If you lose a loser leaves town match then you get sent to wrestling school, you lose a LLT match there and you cease to exist. Because three of Andrew Everett got fired in the same match he somehow got fired from death and became alive again. Testekill has a new favorite as of 02:47 on Apr 19, 2020 |
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Apr 19, 2020 01:08
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Arrath posted:
I definitely played some DOS shareware games where the game speed was directly proportional to your CPU speed so they basically only worked with one specific processor, but it is weird that that would be a problem as late as 98'. I don't think it ever even occurred to me to try the real time mode in Cyberstorm, though.
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Apr 19, 2020 01:18
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Stare-Out posted:It's really common on consoles too. My PS4 can handle gameplay just fine running quiet, but leave it at the map screen or inventory and it'll sound like a jet engine in no time. I think menus are often big ol' vector files which might explain some of that issue.
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Apr 19, 2020 04:07
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