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Oh, not even the same ballpark, then, gotcha.
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Apr 19, 2020 02:08
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2060 KO are a way to make money off 2070 cards that had a defect in manufacturing. They turn off some parts of the card to make them functional. So it is weaker than a true 2070 but the chipset and ram etc are the same.
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Apr 19, 2020 02:10
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BIG HEADLINE posted:EDIT: Seems 2060S are now $400 minimum. I guess "hmm, I should probably build a PC" boredom is a new thing. I bought a card back in November and even then I absolutely could not find a 2060S for less than $400. They were effectively the exact same price as a 2070. So that's what I ended up with, a Gigabyte 2070 for $400.
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Apr 19, 2020 03:55
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Anyone have any super-secret sources for decent computer monitors? I'm in comparison shopping hell at the moment and everywhere I look seems to be having trouble maintaining stock, and just checking the basic stats can be a pain in the rear end. Lots of stores seem to avoid saying what the refresh rate is on a monitor, which makes the whole process more of a pain in the rear end.
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Apr 19, 2020 04:07
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CaptainSarcastic posted:Anyone have any super-secret sources for decent computer monitors? I'm in comparison shopping hell at the moment and everywhere I look seems to be having trouble maintaining stock, and just checking the basic stats can be a pain in the rear end. Lots of stores seem to avoid saying what the refresh rate is on a monitor, which makes the whole process more of a pain in the rear end. Microcenter is good if you have one. As far as comparison shopping - PC Part Picker. Although they don't have things like freesync sync ranges which is annoying, but it'll help get you a short-list of models to look at. Might want to run your short-list by the monitor thread, there are a lot of "gotchas" that monitor companies try to pull.
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Apr 19, 2020 04:17
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I was considering getting a new gpu about a month ago and got 16gb of ram, a tomahawk max and a ryzen 3600 instead as an upgrade from my 4770k with 8gb ram. I currently have an Nvidia 980. So I was thinking of getting an AMD 5700 or 5700xt and was pretty close to pulling the trigger a few times but ultimately decided to wait to see what the next gen AMD/Nvidias looked like. After reading more about driver issues on the 5700's, looks like I dodged a massive bullet.
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Apr 19, 2020 04:24
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CaptainSarcastic posted:Anyone have any super-secret sources for decent computer monitors? I'm in comparison shopping hell at the moment and everywhere I look seems to be having trouble maintaining stock, and just checking the basic stats can be a pain in the rear end. Lots of stores seem to avoid saying what the refresh rate is on a monitor, which makes the whole process more of a pain in the rear end. Go to the monitor thread and tell us what you're looking for.
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Apr 19, 2020 04:54
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I'll check out the monitor thread - thanks!
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Apr 19, 2020 05:17
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Twibbit posted:2060 KO are a way to make money off 2070 cards that had a defect in manufacturing. They turn off some parts of the card to make them functional. So it is weaker than a true 2070 but the chipset and ram etc are the same. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUFRBnJdx3Y
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Apr 19, 2020 05:23
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It looks like the Metro Exodus devs are not interested in implementing DLSS 2.0 due to unspecified "systems" that would have to be "reworked". Does anyone know what they could mean here? It's just confusing because their statement contradicts every other dev who has implemented DLSS 2.0 so far. If there really is some barrier to existing games running DLSS 2.0, that is something of a red flag. Regardless of their overall reasoning, it's a real bummer because, as a ray-tracing title, DLSS 2.0 would absolutely own in Exodus. I played through about half the game using a 1080p TV just so i could have on full ray tracing, and it was beautiful. VelociBacon posted:I can't believe how many people feel this way with the old outdated games getting RTX. Can't you get 99% of the experience in a 5 min youtube video? Is it really more than a "huh yeah that looks way different, cool"? Ray tracing is the real deal. Beyond the eye candy (which is glorious in itself) ray tracing done well kind of tricks your brain into becoming more immersed. There's something about it that's more than the sum of its parts. I'm really excited about modeled physics in general. How awesome would it be to get quasi-realistic water? This type of physics emulation seems like a major next step in graphic fidelity, especially as we're hitting diminishing returns on resolution past native 4K (not that resolution won't continue to be better, but the silicon is, generally speaking, better spent elsewhere after that). DLSS 2.0 is a integral part of this overall vision. I think that within a year or two, the industry will look back at DLSS 2.0 as a major, major turning point in game creation- a tool that allowed not just ray tracing, but physics modeling itself to push into the next generation. Taima fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Apr 19, 2020 |
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Apr 19, 2020 06:32
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how does the industry deal with only one player able to deliver ray-tracing, though? too bad, so sad, AMD, you better catch up?
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Apr 19, 2020 06:40
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Sounds like I'm hocking these 5700s for used 2060S or 2070S, then. Haven't they fixed the black screen problems?
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Apr 19, 2020 06:43
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gradenko_2000 posted:how does the industry deal with only one player able to deliver ray-tracing, though? too bad, so sad, AMD, you better catch up? From a developer perspective, since they code for the DXR/VulkanRT API's, they don't really care. They'll code for the API and NV/AMD's drivers will handle how to offload the calculations as they see fit depending on hardware. AMD will also have RT Real Soon Now (tm) with RDNA 2.0, as will the RDNA 2.0 based consoles. By the end of the year, AMD and NV will both have product stacks with various levels of RT solutions. Taima posted:It looks like the Metro Exodus devs are not interested in implementing DLSS 2.0 due to unspecified "systems" that would have to be "reworked". Does anyone know what they could mean here? I wonder if that's just them not wanting to go back to a game that they have probably considered completely finished in terms of development at this point. Looks like the last of the planned DLC releases is already out, they may just be moving on to their next project now. Beautiful Ninja fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Apr 19, 2020 |
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Apr 19, 2020 07:18
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gradenko_2000 posted:how does the industry deal with only one player able to deliver ray-tracing, though? too bad, so sad, AMD, you better catch up? DXR is an open spec, and AMD has some form of DXR supporting hardware in the new Xbox. Safe to assume whatever comes next from AMD in the PC world will have similar hardware RT support, but we don’t know what that looks like yet. There doesn’t seem to be much magic in the RT core design, it’s really a question of what percentage of their die they want to dedicate to the task. DLSS though will always be Nvidia exclusive.
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Apr 19, 2020 07:21
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Taima posted:It looks like the Metro Exodus devs are not interested in implementing DLSS 2.0 due to unspecified "systems" that would have to be "reworked". Does anyone know what they could mean here? It probably is some technical thing, but I just had a thought: I'd laugh if this is the first signs of a "native resolution supremacy" movement. I can see it now: "We will never upscale. People who use DLSS to upscale are cheap losers, you'll play our game at native resolution or you won't play it at all!" as though using the tech is somehow "cheating" or "cutting corners to get something for nothing" or something dumb like that. Beautiful Ninja posted:I wonder if that's just them not wanting to go back to a game that they have probably considered completely finished in terms of development at this point. Looks like the last of the planned DLC releases is already out, they may just be moving on to their next project now. Or this. It's probably this.
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Apr 19, 2020 07:22
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Cactus posted:It probably is some technical thing, but I just had a thought: I'd laugh if this is the first signs of a "native resolution supremacy" movement. I can see it now: "We will never upscale. People who use DLSS to upscale are cheap losers, you'll play our game at native resolution or you won't play it at all!" as though using the tech is somehow "cheating" or "cutting corners to get something for nothing" or something dumb like that. This is unlikely because Exodus has DLSS 1.0, and it was initially absolutely terrible (like worse that just simple-monitor-upscaling-from-half-resolution terrible).
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Apr 19, 2020 08:23
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CaptainSarcastic posted:Anyone have any super-secret sources for decent computer monitors? I'm in comparison shopping hell at the moment and everywhere I look seems to be having trouble maintaining stock, and just checking the basic stats can be a pain in the rear end. Lots of stores seem to avoid saying what the refresh rate is on a monitor, which makes the whole process more of a pain in the rear end. get on the pixio mailing list for b-stock or just refresh this page every morning. https://www.pixiogaming.com/outlet Fauxtool fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Apr 19, 2020 |
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Apr 19, 2020 08:23
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Stickman posted:This is unlikely because Exodus has DLSS 1.0, and it was initially absolutely terrible (like worse that just simple-monitor-upscaling-from-half-resolution terrible). It's unlikely in this case yeah but I won't be at all surprised when some gamers.txt rants get posted about native resolution purity or something along those lines.
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Apr 19, 2020 08:39
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lDDQD posted:Haven't they fixed the black screen problems? Drivers are in a "usable" state. Tinfoil hat theory says that AMD, a company with finite and more constrained resources than Intel or Nvidia, is focusing all their effort on RDNA2 products, like the ones that are going to be in the new consoles from Microsoft and Sony, and then the derivative PC GPUS that will be built using the resultant architecture whose development was funded by those two entities. Which means that RDNA1 products like the 5700/XTs are left in the lurch with their drivers in a "good enough" state, rather than "good". SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Apr 19, 2020 |
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Apr 19, 2020 08:41
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Taima posted:It looks like the Metro Exodus devs are not interested in implementing DLSS 2.0 due to unspecified "systems" that would have to be "reworked". Does anyone know what they could mean here?
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Apr 19, 2020 08:51
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FuturePastNow posted:If used cards get cheap enough, I'd be tempted to replace my 1070 with a 2060, which is almost a sidegrade but dammit I want to try Quake II with raytracing If you are OK with 30 to 50 Frames per second at 720p, your 1070 will work just fine. Here are my settings for playing Quake2 RTX with my 1070;It's quite playable on an ancient i7-2600K. tango alpha delta fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Apr 19, 2020 |
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Apr 19, 2020 09:40
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:This is probably neither here or there, but deferred rendering, which is something the devs practically trailblazed (they implemented it originally in STALKER as a way to have computationally cheap lighting, then they left GSC) is hostile to practically any form of anti-aliasing other than TAA. There's tech demos from both Nvidia and AMD showing how to implement MSAA with deferred rendering, I feel like it's more that no one cares because post process AA is cheap and good enough.
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Apr 19, 2020 10:06
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MSAA is horrifically expensive and doesn't even cover alpha textures, it went the way of the dodo for a reason.
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Apr 19, 2020 12:07
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There's a bunch of reasons why MSAA went away (a) It's expensive, and the cost scales with the scenes polygon density which only keeps increasing in newer games. The hacks required to make it work with deferred make it even more expensive. (b) It's complicated, back in the day it was a simple flag on a render target (or forced in the driver) but many modern techniques require special care to work with MSAA even if the renderer isn't deferred. (c) It's not effective, nowadays we have to deal with shader aliasing in addition to geometry aliasing and MSAA only tackles the latter. MSAA/TAA hybrids are possible but rare due to (a) and (b). (d) TAA has other benefits, you can deliberately undersample effects with a different pattern each frame and let TAA integrate it like a free poor mans denoiser. This is why some games are starting to mandate TAA or show a warning if you disable it. The exception is in VR where MSAA is still the standard to maximise sharpness, but dealing with shader aliasing is a constant struggle requiring lots of hand-tuning of materials to keep it under control. w.r.t Metro Exodus though, DLSS 2.0 works just fine with deferred so that's not the problem. As said it's probably just that they've wrapped development at this point.
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Apr 19, 2020 12:49
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Is there a point to using TAA anymore when you can use DLSS 2? Is it possible to use it when rendering at native resolution, or combining it with super sampling?
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Apr 19, 2020 13:07
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repiv posted:There's a bunch of reasons why MSAA went away I'm pretty sure supersampling is what's used in VR, after all, nothing's as good as supersampling
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Apr 19, 2020 13:09
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Mercrom posted:Is there a point to using TAA anymore when you can use DLSS 2? Is it possible to use it when rendering at native resolution, or combining it with super sampling?
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Apr 19, 2020 13:15
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HalloKitty posted:I'm pretty sure supersampling is what's used in VR, after all, nothing's as good as supersampling Ideally you want both, MSAA to clean up the edges (relatively cheaply) and SSAA to clean up any remaining shader aliasing (at great expense) SSAA is too expensive to rely on exclusively Anime Schoolgirl posted:This is probably neither here or there, but deferred rendering, which is something the devs practically trailblazed (they implemented it originally in STALKER as a way to have computationally cheap lighting, then they left GSC) is hostile to practically any form of anti-aliasing other than TAA. the stalker devs didn't invent deferred, that honor goes to DICE who first used it in 2001 for the shrek movie tie-in game lol repiv fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Apr 19, 2020 |
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Apr 19, 2020 13:17
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Can DLSS be combined with DSR to do cheap SSAA? It should be possible to test it out. Just plug a 1080p monitor into your RTX card and have Control. Set up DSR resolutions, and tell the game to render at 1080 and scale up.
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Apr 19, 2020 16:33
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DLSS is already temporally supersampling, jittering the subpixel location across frames, which is most of how it manages to get higher detail out of a lower res image, and how it anti-aliases. If possible, it would be preferable to just use a higher input resolution for DLSS rather than letting the scaling from DSR ever get involved.
K8.0 fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Apr 19, 2020 |
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Apr 19, 2020 16:50
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DSR can mess with a bunch of stuff like UI scaling, and a lot of games will start up with these higher resolutions instead of your native monitor's which can get kind of frustrating. It can of course be applied to individual games in the control panel, but it's still a huge per-game hassle instead of just having native game support for increased render resolution.
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Apr 19, 2020 16:52
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Controls DLSS resolutions can be tweaked in the config file so you could probably just set it to render at 1080p and "upscale" to 1080p if you wanted.
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Apr 19, 2020 16:52
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How would it be possible for AMD to implement DLSS? Is that something they can presumably match in a few years?
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Apr 19, 2020 16:59
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AMD already made FidelityFX with CAS which basically killed off DLSS the first time around. They're gonna have to step up their AI game to compete with DLSS 2.0.
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Apr 19, 2020 17:07
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buglord posted:How would it be possible for AMD to implement DLSS? Is that something they can presumably match in a few years? How? By creating a similar technology for their own architectures.  I don't think we'll have to wait long to see a similar announcement, unless patent issues arise. The interesting question is wether they can make something work with RDNA2, because that'll be in next-gen consoles. If not then it seems to be a likely feature for the mid-cycle ("Pro") console refresh, so that early launch consoles would have to render native or checkerboard and "Pro" consoles would get better rendering quality and framerates thanks to the ~magic AI GPU~. eames fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Apr 19, 2020 |
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Apr 19, 2020 17:25
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Are the options for native resolution particularly tunable or are you stuck with big jumps like 1080->1440? I'm thinking of a situation where you're close to but not consistently hitting 60 fps at 4k, so you render at 1800 instead of dropping all the way to 1440.
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Apr 19, 2020 20:16
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Officially it only supports big jumps, the presets Nvidia specifies are roughly 1/2 pixels (DLSS Quality), 1/3 pixels (DLSS Balanced) or 1/4 pixels (DLSS Performance).  1/2 sounds like a big drop but in practice it's almost indistinguishable from native so there's not much reason to go higher.
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Apr 19, 2020 20:35
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But it's not 1/2 pixels though? What's the actual reason for those numbers?
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Apr 19, 2020 23:04
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Dunno ask nvidia 
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Apr 19, 2020 23:27
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Are the 3000 series Nvidia cards supposed to be more power efficient/cooler? I was hoping the transition from 1000 to 2000 would bring more mITX friendly cards but that didn’t seem to be the case.
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Apr 20, 2020 00:04
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