The Last Dance GDT

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R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

The last dance starts tonight at 8PM CENTRAL (BULLS) Time about a little-known basketball player named Michael Jordan and the dysfunctional bulls falling apart around the last championship. The NBA had a crew following the team the entire season and the footage then sat in a basement until now when it will be revealed how the Bulls all hated each other and still managed to easily destroy Karl Malone and the repugnant 1990s Jazz.

We're all watching this, what the hell else do we have to do? Please also post elaborate fan fictions of Michael Jordan being coached by Jim Boylen.

# ? Apr 19, 2020 19:14

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 14:54

RCarr: Dec 24, 2007

Hell yea let�s do this

# ? Apr 19, 2020 19:24

The Maestro: Feb 21, 2006

How are folks with no ESPN planning on watching, just curious, no reason

# ? Apr 19, 2020 19:45

Gobias Ind.: Apr 5, 2007; If your girlfriend says hey to me that's our girlfriend now idc

It's going to be on Netflix in Canada but isn't available until the Monday after the episode airs. Boooo

# ? Apr 19, 2020 19:51

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005

Is it going to be in Netflix in the US? I saw something about late air on netflix but is that international only?

# ? Apr 19, 2020 20:09

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

I'm gonna boo Jerry Krause for 10 straight hours

# ? Apr 19, 2020 20:10

xbilkis: Apr 11, 2005; god qb
me
jay hova

https://twitter.com/readjack/status/1251856105858269191

Good article about how Reinsdorf is the most intriguing figure in this whole saga for anyone who's already aware of the situation. The five-minute clip included him saying "Yeah, literally everyone told me not to hire this shithead baseball scout as general manager...but I dunno, I liked him" and it was baffling to me, so hopefully they get into that a good amount

# ? Apr 19, 2020 20:31

RCarr: Dec 24, 2007

The Maestro posted:

How are folks with no ESPN planning on watching, just curious, no reason

I�m curious as well

# ? Apr 19, 2020 20:37

Redgrendel2001: Sep 1, 2006; you literally think a person saying their NBA team of choice being better than the fucking 76ers is a 'schtick'

a literal thing you think.

https://twitter.com/30for30/status/1251901324200984577?s=19

# ? Apr 19, 2020 20:53

MorrisBae: Jan 18, 2020; by Athanatos

I'm guessing this is footage from the same camera team who was following Mike around the same season and put out this IMAX documentary in 2000?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan_to_the_Max

Or was it a different crew?

# ? Apr 19, 2020 23:23

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

On the biggest possession of the game, Muggsy had the ball with the Hornets down one. Jordan backed off of him and told him, 'Shoot it, you f***ing midget.' Muggsy shot it, didn�t come close. A year later Muggsy actually told Johnny Bach that he believes that single play ruined his career. His shot never recovered.

# ? Apr 19, 2020 23:30

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

REQUIRED PRE-WATCH LISTENING
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqrtoFWglMY

# ? Apr 19, 2020 23:37

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Oceanlife posted:

Welcome to the Michael Jordan Steroid Discussion Thread

This thread exists to help facilitate mature and reasonable discussion on what is often a controversial issue. In the past decade questions have been raised from multiple sources about the legitimacy of Jordans physique. Did the ultra competitive Jordan use steroids, HGH or testosterone enhancement to get an advantage? Under the tight media control of David Stern the NBA avoided the performance enhancing drug scandals that plagued Major League Baseball, Football and even cycling; all the while maintaining the weakest testing policy in professional sports. Many people simply asked why the NBA was so scared to test their top athletes if they had nothing to hide, but these questions were ignored.

Now even though many sports heroes from the 1990's like Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire as well as current NBA players like Hedo Turkoglu have admitted to using steroids, that does not necessary mean Michael Jordan abused them as well. This is not a witch hunt, merely a discussion. In this thread we will provide evidence to help the posters reach their own conclusions as to whether Michael Jordan indeed used steroids to help him compete at the highest level.

Michael Jordan's Alleged Descent into Steroid Use:

Michael Jordan was always an elite athlete from his days at UNC and like many basketball players of the era like Dr J and Connie Hawkisn he possessed a strong but slim frame that was considered ideal for a basketball player:

Take notice of the normal sized head, full hairline, and slim arms.

After a championship at UNC and college player of the year honors Michael Jordan dropped out of school to pursue a career in the NBA. He started off his first year very strongly, averaging 28.2 points and winning rookie of the year honors. Within three years he was the leading scorer in the NBA and averaging over 37 points per game. Billboards adorned his name, he received the first ultra lucrative show deal for his Air Jordan sponsorship and was one of the most recognizable basketball players in the world. Then, his career stalled.

Despite his high scoring and crowd pleasing dunks Michael Jordan was not a champion. Larry Bird and Magic Johnson were in the finals almost every year and considered the #1 and #2 players by knowledgeable fans. This was a constant frustration to Jordan who wanted to be the best. As Bird and Johnson got older Michael Jordan (MJ) knew it was his chance to shine. Except one thing stood in his way: the toughest most physical team in the NBA, the Detroit Pistons.

NBA Champion Detroit Pistons

Contrasting to Michael's "Me first" style the Pistons played the game the right way. They passed to the open man, hustled for loose balls, and played solid defense. But above all else they were physically the strongest team in league history. This made them the most dangerous team in the NBA and they won the Eastern Conference almost every year and two Championships. Their biggest strength was also Michael's greatest enemy, a passing and scoring wizard named Isiah Thomas.

NBA's two top guards show mutual respect before a playoff game

Isiah Thomas hated Jordan's selfish style of play. When Jordan was a rookie Isiah tried to impress the need for team play on the ball hogging young Jordan by passing to the other All Stars. This infuriated Jordan who swore revenge in the post season. However every year in the play offs the Pistons proved too strong for the Bulls to overcome. High flying basketball may win games in the regular season but playoff basketball in the 80's was known for strength and physical play. After years of losing, Jordan enlisted the help of controversial trainer Tim Grover in 1989 who immediately told Jordan he needed to bulk up if he wanted to survive a series with the Pistons. Jordan listened.

Secretive Athletic Trainer and Founder of "Attack Athletics" Tim Grover

This is when we believe Jordan was introduced to steroids. As he said to Sports Illustrated that summer:

Jordan "made it happen" and worked out extremely hard that off season. Hitting the weights everyday, guided by Tim Grover and boosted by his new cocktail of performance enhancing drugs. He entered the season much bulkier, looking more like a power forward than a perimeter player. It's then we start seeing the first effects of steroid use: Hair loss.

Jordan experiencing rapid hair loss after first summer of alleged steroid use

Fellow players were shocked when they saw Jordan who at 27 completely changed his body from the first 26 years of his life. Some claim this was just from a new training regiment while others feel this is the most stunning proof of performance enhancement. Whatever Jordan did worked, and his new strength made him impossible to defend. Combined with the emergence of the Chicago Bulls role players Jordan won three straight tainted championships from 91-93. However, steroids were slowly changing Jordan as a person. He began fighting with team mates, saying profanities on the basketball court in front of young fans and developed a crippling gambling addiction that likely stemmed from the same addictive personality disorder that led him to steroid abuse. This is known in gym circles as typical "roid rage" and was documented in the best selling novel, The Jordan Rules.

Then came the next chapter of his life, he suddenly retired and played baseball. This also put him into one of the most steroid infused club houses in professional sports, the Chicago White Sox farm system.

Jordan batting .202 for the Birmingham Barons during the hayday of Baseball's steroid era

It was here that the student became the teacher. Surrounded by minor league players who were desperate to succeed, Jordan introduced them to Tim Grover's advanced steroid cycles. Players like Chris Snopek, Matt Karchner, Steve Gajkowski, Chris Tremie, Doug Brady and Larry Thomas all took Jordan's lessons seriously and were able to make it to the Major Leagues a few years later. Karchner in particular became Jordan's apostle for many years, spreading steroid secrets to the Chicago Cubs. Having a crisis of conscience he later exposed steroids in the locker room, though he protected Jordan

Unable to make it in the majors and two years removed from making an NBA income, Jordan decided to return to the NBA for one last run.

Now bald and noticeably bulkier Michael Jordan upon returning to the NBA in 1996

Jordan returned for the end of the 1995 season and realized his team had changed. They were still good, but they weren't strong enough to win a championship. They were eliminated in the playoffs and that summer Jordan vowed to not let it happen again. For the first time he was going to reveal his training secrets to two select teammates: Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman.

Pippen and Rodman were two very thin but very active and athletic players prior to the 1996 season. Notice their physiques prior to training with Michael Jordan

Jordan had one rule for his two young disciples: Win at all costs. He had seen how his training had turned mediocre minor league players into legitimate MLB starters and he knew if he used it on players as talented as Pippen and Rodman they would be unstoppable. Training began that summer and in 1996 Jordan had two super star teammates with bodies that were now cut from steroid infused granite.

Noticeably more muscular Rodman and Pippen

And so began the NBA Bulls 72-10 NBA Championship season. After winning three more championships Jordan retired for a second time. But Pippen and Rodman were both different people. Under the influence of steroids Pippen would instigate fights and became so self centered and narcissistic that he wouldn't even tip his waiters, becoming known as "no tippin Pippen". Rodman was in countless fights with Karl Malone and even kicked an innocent cameraman during a game. Jordan won his second threepeat but at what cost?

I wish this was the end of the story, but there is one more chapter in MJ's cycle of steroid abuse: The Washington Wizards

An older MJ showing puffy muscle definition caused by retained water after a heavy steroid cycle

Jordan needed a training partner to prepare for the season and was introduced to Ron Artest. Ron at the time was a young rookie who wasn't even old enough to legally drink. But he was tough and provided the enthusiasm Jordan required. Sadly, Jordan's influence rubbed off on Artest.

Ron Artest as a young rookie

Ron Artest after training with Michael Jordan

Ron Artest wasn't mentally prepared for the heavy cycles Jordan introduced him to. This backfired in a way MJ never expected when in a fit of roid rage Ron Artest broke two of Jordan's ribs. Artest later went on to attack a fan during a basketball game in an event known as "Malice in the Palace". That's the risk with introducing steroid to a young person, you never know how they are going to react.

During his time with the Wizards only one player resisted Jordan's controversial methods, a young #1 pick named Kwame Brown. This infuriated Jordan to the point he would use sexually explicit and degrading language towards the 18 year old Brown causing psychological damage that prevented him from becoming the Next Garnett he was projected to be. Eventually even steroids were not enough to keep MJ's game effective at an NBA level. His shooting percentage was falling to almost below .400 and he had to beg Vince Carter to let him start in his last all star game. He was clearly finished. And after failing to make the playoffs for two straight seasons Michael Jordan retired for good, leaving behind a tainted legacy.

Conclusion: Remember this thread is for mature discussion. If anyone has additional evidence of Jordan using steroids or first or second hand accounts please post them in this thread. The sanctity of the game is paramount. Even though many of us idolized Jordan as naive youths, we owe it to the future generations to know the truth about the player sometimes referred to as the greatest of all time.

# ? Apr 19, 2020 23:50

BWV: Feb 24, 2005

Hopefully they interview all the mechanics and gym teachers he played against.

# ? Apr 19, 2020 23:52

Metapod: Mar 18, 2012

Mike isn't even the best mj in basketball

# ? Apr 19, 2020 23:52

AsInHowe: Jan 11, 2007; red winged angel

Do you think that Michael Jordan is happy to be the center of attention with zero sports going on but him?

Do you think that Michael Jordan is pretty happy with the coronavirus, all things considered?

# ? Apr 19, 2020 23:55

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

wow i also have a contrarian jordan opinion from some guy on twitter

# ? Apr 19, 2020 23:55

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

i WILL go full monkeu in this thread

# ? Apr 19, 2020 23:55

Metapod: Mar 18, 2012

Feel free to post propaganda about a guy who couldn't win until all the greats who beat him mercilessly retired

# ? Apr 19, 2020 23:58

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

Metapod posted:

Feel free to post propaganda about a guy who couldn't win until all the greats who beat him mercilessly retired

i am sorry metapod it hurts to do this but the OKC Thunder are like if the first Three Peat Bulls never won anything and then decided to build the entire franchise around Horace Grant.

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:02

Metapod: Mar 18, 2012

R.D. Mangles posted:

i am sorry metapod it hurts to do this but the OKC Thunder are like if the first Three Peat Bulls never won anything and then decided to build the entire franchise around Horace Grant.

Correct if those bulls had to play LeBron James and the spurs they would have 0 titles

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:04

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

i think you might be confused about what the movie is about, it is about jordan destroying karl malone, it's not the rocky movie where he fights mason "the line" dixon

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:10

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005

It rules that after jordan decided to be a quitter his team was a whole two games worse the next year.

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:11

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

michael jordan is the greatest Jabroni Magnet in the world

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:13

creamcorn: Oct 26, 2007; automatic gun for fast, continuous firing

who was a better baseball player, tebow or jordan? baseball has like 10,000 stats, and i don't understand any of them except rbi and slugging %

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:17

Metapod: Mar 18, 2012

Jordan can't even dougie

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:18

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

MICHAEL JORDAN'S PANTS ARE FINE!!!!!!!1111

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:18

BWV: Feb 24, 2005

Michael Jordan Is A Centrist

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:24

Redgrendel2001: Sep 1, 2006; you literally think a person saying their NBA team of choice being better than the fucking 76ers is a 'schtick'

a literal thing you think.

Metapod posted:

Correct if those bulls had to play LeBron James and the spurs they would have 0 titles

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:28

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

"there's seven of the twenty one feet of poo poo"

-me, whispering to my wife when bill wennington is on screen

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:32

The Maestro: Feb 21, 2006

R.D. Mangles posted:

MICHAEL JORDAN'S PANTS ARE FINE!!!!!!!1111

Picturing Boylen wearing MJ Pants and a Colangelo Collar

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:38

The Maestro: Feb 21, 2006

MourningView posted:

"there's seven of the twenty one feet of poo poo"

-me, whispering to my wife when bill wennington is on screen

lol

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:38

Declan MacManus: Sep 1, 2011; damn i'm really in this bitch

MourningView posted:

"there's seven of the twenty one feet of poo poo"

-me, whispering to my wife when bill wennington is on screen

lmao

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:41

Waroduce: Aug 5, 2008

BWV posted:

Michael Jordan Is A Centrist

Republicans buy shoes too

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:47

xbilkis: Apr 11, 2005; god qb
me
jay hova

R.D. Mangles posted:

REQUIRED PRE-WATCH LISTENING
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqrtoFWglMY

Commissioning this is this only good thing the Bulls franchise has done in the past decade

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLI5OJsDO78

# ? Apr 20, 2020 00:51

DC Murderverse: Nov 10, 2016; "Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"

a local Iowa paper's sports columnist interviewed one of the people interviewed in this doc who was a Tribune reporter (and a University of Iowa grad), during the Jordan years and she shared this really funny story which probably won't be in The Last Dance because it's not about Michael but is still well worth sharing:

"The Cedar Rapids Gazette posted:

What Isaacson says she remembers more vividly than the circus and the games themselves were private moments talking to players, especially on the road. She recalls a time when she was �very pregnant� while covering the team. Somewhere on the road she, veteran guard Ron Harper, and younger guard/former Iowa Hawkeye B.J. Armstrong were in a locker room talking about whether the father should be in the room with the mother during childbirth.

Armstrong was adamantly against it. Harper, who had kids, tried to convince him otherwise. He persuaded Armstrong to lie on a training table while he and Isaacson pretended to be helping him through the childbirth process, using a basketball as a baby.

�We weren�t trying to be funny,� said Isaacson. �This was minutes before a game, and (Bulls coach) Phil Jackson walks in. He takes five steps into the room, sees the scene unfolding, started shaking his head, and walked straight out.�

# ? Apr 20, 2020 01:40

MorrisBae: Jan 18, 2020; by Athanatos

DC Murderverse posted:

a local Iowa paper's sports columnist interviewed one of the people interviewed in this doc who was a Tribune reporter (and a University of Iowa grad), during the Jordan years and she shared this really funny story which probably won't be in The Last Dance because it's not about Michael but is still well worth sharing:

wonderful

# ? Apr 20, 2020 01:52

AsInHowe: Jan 11, 2007; red winged angel

After the 30 For 30 on Dennis Rodman, finally, one on Scottie Pippen

# ? Apr 20, 2020 01:52

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

F1 ESPORTS GRAND PRIX

# ? Apr 20, 2020 01:53

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 14:54

Benne: Sep 2, 2011; STOP DOING HEROIN

I know ESPN is hurting for content these days but did we really need 20 straight hours of Peyton's crappy vanity show

# ? Apr 20, 2020 01:54

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