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How much was the copper going to cost? I need to get my roof redone, and part of that is replacing the terrible flashing/coping at the transition between my flat roof and mansard roof. I was thinking of copper but I think the roofer is going to quote this at some absurd margin on materials.
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Feb 17, 2020 14:16
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When I got quotes for copper gutters and downspouts it was about five times the cost of extruded-on-site aluminum.
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Feb 17, 2020 17:54
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mcgreenvegtables posted:How much was the copper going to cost? I need to get my roof redone, and part of that is replacing the terrible flashing/coping at the transition between my flat roof and mansard roof. I was thinking of copper but I think the roofer is going to quote this at some absurd margin on materials. Well, I would have needed slightly over 50 linear feet, at least 12in wide... Ideally 14in. I used 14in aluminum. So like, 570 dollars or so. https://basiccopper.com/12x5022miozb.html Lead, I was going to use standard 12in roll lead. It comes in 20ft rolls for 130 dollars each, so total would have been around 350 dollars including the half a roll I have on the shelf left over from a few other areas I've done. Aluminum cost me... 50 dollars for the 10 foot and 50 foot rolls of 14in I bought. Post pics of what you need to replace, copper step flashing is reasonably priced but I'm not sure it's usable for your purposes. This is basically a headwall flashing you're talking about I think? You'd need roll not step flashing. I don't think you need 12in wide by code requirements but a flat roof is tough to seal so the more the better.
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Feb 18, 2020 00:14
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The main issue with aluminum as compared to lead or copper is that you can't (easily) solder/weld it to create a continuous barrier, right?
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Feb 18, 2020 01:30
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kastein posted:Well, I would have needed slightly over 50 linear feet, at least 12in wide... Ideally 14in. I used 14in aluminum. So like, 570 dollars or so. https://basiccopper.com/12x5022miozb.html   The whole roof needs to be replaced, flat EPDM and the two layers of asphalt shingles on the mansard slopes. I'm particularly interested in doing a better than the current poo poo job of flashing both the transition from the flat roof to the top of the mansard and between the bottom of the shingles and the gutters. Currently this is done with some wavy (now painted white) thin gauge metal. I can probably redo this with some combination of trim boards and metal. But the metal needs to be thick enough not to end up wavy like what is on there now...
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Feb 18, 2020 04:08
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mr.belowaverage posted:When I got quotes for copper gutters and downspouts it was about five times the cost of extruded-on-site aluminum. Watch master craftsmen installing copper on instagram until you give in and pay for the beauty (I will not be doing this - well maybe one day).
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Feb 18, 2020 05:45
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That looks really obnoxious to flash without making it wavy, even with copper. Lead would be your best bet for that since it's so workable. In fact I've used a regular old Stanley 35ft tape measure as a hammer to form lead flashing tightly to the contours of an asphalt shingled roof before. You will still need a sheetmetal brake to make the bends look at all nice though, and long lengths of lead flashing are really not a one person job because they are heavy, not very stiff, and not springy at all either so you'll end up tired, angry, and with 10 feet of crumpled hosed up lead in a hurry. The flashing benders you can rent are 10ft long so that's the longest continuous piece you can do. Soldering lead takes practice and I don't think I'd recommend trying to do it on the house until you have A LOT of practice. I'd let the pros do that one and ideally wait till you're doing the roof instead of wasting hundreds in materials only to do it again.
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Feb 18, 2020 08:02
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Oh and I got some of the decking boards down today. Would have done more but I was interrupted and it was dark and drat cold by the time I got back to it. More tomorrow.   I will cut the tails all off straight once I can run a chalk line down it and do a whole side at a time.
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Feb 18, 2020 08:05
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Got a bit further than this but it got dark. I've mostly been cleaning up and reorganizing today so nothing looks particularly impressive. The stack of 8ft deck boards I had delivered (half of which I've already used) had a ton of ice in between the boards... Up to a quarter inch in places. Really annoying, but that's winter for you. On the last warm day we had I was able to scrape it off with a scrap of wood fairly easily but right now it's like rock so I just beat on the stack until the boards unstuck and stood them up to thaw out. They looked a bit better around noon so hopefully they'll be thawed completely by tomorrow or Saturday. 
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Feb 21, 2020 00:05
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This “winter” you speak of. What is it, and why would people live where it does such things?  please ignore me melting in the driveway in the height of summer. Edit: and/or catching on fire Darchangel fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 20:19
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I'd be concerned about using really wet lumber, surely it will shrink as it dries. Are you accounting for a certain amount of shrinkage?
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Feb 21, 2020 21:21
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Basically all the lumber I've used on this project is pressure treated, so I've been picking up sopping wet boards and screwing them to the house the whole time. Ideally I would have been able to let it dry but that hasn't really happened.
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Feb 21, 2020 21:56
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It's decking that will live outdoors anyway. If it can't handle a little moisture, it's no good for the intended use. Though I do hate working with wet wood. (heh.)
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Feb 21, 2020 22:19
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fair enough, I've done woodworking but not so much home construction, and in woodworking you gotta get your wood drier before you make poo poo or it's gonna shrink and warp and split, so that's where my instinct is
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Feb 21, 2020 22:52
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This is why you do stuff like leave 1/8" gaps between boards; it's not just for looks. I admit I'm unclear about the ramifications of, say, a board shrinking and trying to pull on the screw it's attached to another board with.
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Feb 21, 2020 23:01
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Yeah for finish work it's super important. Porches and to some degree framing no one really cares it seems.
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Feb 22, 2020 08:52
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It's a porch. If he puts it in wet it'll change dimensions when dry, and if he puts it in dry it'll change dimensions when it gets wet. The key thing here is that goddamn, man, even without wide-angle shots it's clear you've made that place look orders of magnitude better, and we also know the structural improvements are even more extensive. Keep up the great work and keep the updates coming, this legitimately is one of a few threads where I'm excited to see updates when I log in.
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Feb 22, 2020 13:27
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Finished the deck boards on the long side, except for some small pieces. And the short side, except where I needed to install a lateral tie to comply with code.  This board ended in an awkward spot so had to add a little piece for support.  Lateral tie installed, can now put the rest of the decking down over it.  One of the precut stringers I bought had a split in it and was barely holding together so I added a piece here with some headloks.  Stairs are done too.  Started trimming the edges straight.      Ran out of screws with this one piece left to install and about 200 screws at the edges and ends of boards left to run in.     Got another box of screws and finished the corner along with all the other places that needed a few more screws.  The new kitchen to front porch door finally showed up (weird size, had to special order it, though it wasn't custom at least) so I dove in headfirst and went past the point of no return pretty quick. The old door frame that was here is in many pieces now.  Here goes... First need to figure out what I'm doing about the sill, the old threshold was just stood on random scraps of lumber on the sill beam.  At least the beam is in good shape. Measured and determined a scrap of 4x6 PT from the porch columns would be a good fit if I cut it down a little.  Custom profile cut. Had to take it down to 3.5x5ish with a slot for the sheathing plywood.  Test fit, then dumped a bunch of liquid nails down in there and headlok bolted it down.  Formed a pan from the copper-poly flashing and some zipsystem tape.  Trimmed and taped all vapor barrier and housewrap  Test fit and put on some alignment pieces so the outside trim will be perfectly flat.  Looks good from here, shimming is gonna be wild because this frame isn't close to square or level or straight...  That top hinge area required 7 shims.  Buttload of shims used, but it's done aside from the trim inside and out.  Today I focused on kitchen drywall. Got 4 sheets up on the west and south walls. Not many full size sheets left to go in this kitchen before I have to tackle the ceiling, which is gonna be interesting because I need to run the pipes for the master bedroom and office radiant installs before putting the furring strips for this ceiling up.  I think the next big outdoor project is the porch railings and the next indoor one is going to have to be the stairs, as much as I don't want anything to do with that.
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Mar 14, 2020 07:41
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looks great.
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Mar 14, 2020 18:02
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Wow, looks great, someones going to enjoy that deck.
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Mar 14, 2020 22:33
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That's what she said.
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Mar 15, 2020 01:33
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kastein posted:That's what she said. Classic https://youtu.be/tbazGVrbN-g
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Mar 15, 2020 01:45
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Well it sure has been a few weeks of annoyance. Stairs suck. But I'm learning a lot. Not so afraid of building the next place now. First I spent a long time using paint stripper to remove many layers of crap        Deck light. I bought the stuff for this in... 2015? But never got around to installing it.  Yes I know this looks dumb I don't care. It meets code (under max bend degree total, no inaccessible boxes or LBs) and will look fine once the soffit trim is done. I'd do it differently now but this was the only way to do it with where I put that box.  Whole stringer is finally stripped of paint.  For reference this is what it looked like before. A zillion coats of cracked, chipped, peeling oil paint and two coats of latex over it.  Way better now.  Hit it with some 40 and 120 grit to get through the discolored surface layers.  Hung up some poly and tore down THE LAST PLASTER IN THE ENTIRE HOUSE! Thank loving God. I'm so tired of plaster.  Unlike everyone else who ever touched this house, the carpenter who cut this exposed stringer was a master of his craft. Beautifully mitered cuts, everything lines up perfectly. All done by hand too. No circular saw marks anywhere.   I am no longer protected. No stairs in house The wall facing stringer and janky old studs can get hosed too. (Those are the ones I cut the bases out of and temp-braced while doing the dining room subflooring.)  New studs in dining room wall are up. I went to 2x6s for reasons I can no longer recall.  Today I carefully cut the remaining exposed stringer out  And removed all remaining chunks of riser board, old nails, scraps of paint, etc. Glued a few corners that cracked back on too. A bit of wood putty, one final sand, and some trimming and it's ready to go back in.  But first we steal its soul a few times   I think the two stringers were made by different people or something. One is drat near perfect. One is so bad I'd be embarrassed to put my name on it, even if I was in high school and it was my first one ever. No wonder the stairs were level on one side and sloped downhill on the other.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgsUELPqOxc Going from 2 stringers to 3 and from 4/4 to 5/4 risers should take a lot of the bounce out of the stairs.  They are pretty close to exactly the same, especially given they're my first two stringers ever.  I'm moving the exposed stringer out a few inches for several reasons. It will end up right about here.  That's all for now. Hopefully the stairs will be rebuilt in another day or two and I can start staining and do the polyurethane.
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Apr 8, 2020 03:56
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I'm guessing that that second stringer was done by someone who made an out-of-square template and just blindly used it, and if they did realize how bad it was their attitude was "gently caress it, I'm not doing all that work again".
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Apr 8, 2020 15:12
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I'm guessing that that second stringer was done by someone who made an out-of-square template and just blindly used it, and if they did realize how bad it was their attitude was "gently caress it, I'm not doing all that work again". Huh, I didn't know that Radium was a carpenter on the side.
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Apr 8, 2020 15:41
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My guess is the same or possibly since it was rough sawn lumber that likely wasn't kiln dried, it was cut to shape wet and the board shrinking across its width resulted in the angles changing. But it's a big loving difference and I'm not sure if it can explain the whole discrepancy.
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Apr 8, 2020 17:03
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That exposed stringer is a gorgeous piece of wood though and I hope you just stain and seal it because it would be a shame to hide it.
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Apr 9, 2020 06:15
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That's exactly the plan. I spent several hours scraping remaining bits of paint off of it and sanding it last night and it looks even better now.
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Apr 9, 2020 13:30
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Well. Things have progressed a bit but not as fast as I wanted. Got the rest of the dining room door opening framed in except a single jackstud that can wait till I don't have anything better to do. Also properly secured all the electrical and plumbing that was just dangling waiting for those studs to exist again.  Redid all my math on the stringer relocation just for sanity checking. Originally the stairs had been set for the previous living room floor level, and then someone added 3/4" of oak flooring without adjusting the stairs, like everyone does. Code requires the stairs to be no more than 1/8" different in height. Luckily I'm adding a bit to the second floor thickness because of the radiant heat plus the new flooring, and the stairs weren't quite level. So I did a buttload of math and determined that if I raised the exposed stringer about 3/4-7/8" I would have more-level stairs AND be within code tolerances on my first, all middle, and last steps. With that in mind I trimmed the second layer of flooring downstairs, set the stringer in the hole, aligned it correctly at the second floor end and trimmed it. Then screwed it in. They make brackets for this but none of them had a good hole pattern for my situation and I had scrap 3/4 ply so I used two layers of that and a bunch of 2-7/8" headlok bolts.  Sanded the poo poo out of the base of the Newell post and bolted the bottom of the stringer to it. Yes one is different, it's longer because I ran out of the shorter ones.  This is what the stringer and Newell post look like from the visible side. Not bad alignment wise.  The exposed stringer looks like this now. It's cleaned up really nicely. Still a little funky in places but most of them will be covered by the molding under the ends of each stair, as it was before.  Got the spacer plywood and sheetrock up after much muttering, cursing, fiddling, trimming, and test fitting of the wall-side stringer.  Then the stringer and baseboard. I used 6 inch structural screws to attach these to the studs as a set.  Then started cutting and installing risers. Oh my loving God what a pain in the rear end. Painful learning curve, too. I turbo hosed the cuts on the first two and turned some $15 boards into scrap (but luckily used them up later on.). Compounding my extreme newbie status as a finish carpenter was the fact that neither end of these is a right angle cut because it's a slanty old house and the exposed stringer is slightly warped and twisty. The wall end varies from 0.5 to 1.5 degrees from vertical, the exposed stringer end varies from 1 to 3 degrees from vertical and requires a 45 degree miter. All the top edges are within 1/16 of 36-5/8" but the bottom edges, hahahaha. gently caress. What a pain. So I settled into a routine (which I'm leaving out here but can describe for the illumination of other newbies and the amusement of the pros if desired) and got these ones done. I did the second from the bottom first, then second from the top (the top and bottom are weird so I left them for last.) Then the one in the middle to take a slight bow out of the exposed stringer by tying it to the wall. Then split the difference again on top and bottom spans so I had it all reasonably well locked in place.  This is about how most of the mitered corners came out. Could be better but I'm happy with it given my newbie status. I used polyurethane construction adhesive on every joint and 3 inch screws pocketed in with a forstner bit. Every riser face to stringer connection gets 3 screws, the screws from the stringer into the risers were only installed on an as required basis to adjust the miter joints correctly and take slight warping and bowing out of the stringer.  Tadaaaa all the regular risers are in. Bottom one is special because of the Newell post, top because of another Newell post and the fact that it's attached to the floor joist ends with shims instead of a precision cut stringer.  Finished the studs for the half-wall under the exposed stringer too.  With that all done it was time to turn my attention to the HVAC ducting again, as I need to install it, insulate it, and insulate under the stairs before putting the treads on, else I'll go insane trying to access the area between the duct and stairs. So I hung the trunk duct going down the stairs. 3 full lengths, one cut down, then a 45 vertical elbow. Hung, taped, insulated. My wife took some pictures, I assume for her defense in case she was considered a suspect after I was found dead at the bottom of the stairs with severe lacerations. I hate sheetmetal work. Don't tell OSHA I did this:  Made yet another custom duct section. This one goes at the bottom of the stairs and supplies air to the 3 (maybe 4) first floor HVAC registers. Supply into the stem of the T, living room off the right end, everything else off the left end.  Duct insulated, stairs insulated. Grover would be proud. But seriously it's an unheated basement stairway and a heated first floor over it so this was needed.  Stair treads tomorrow. I can already tell it's going to make me cross because I'm going to gently caress up at least a few 25 dollar boards. Oh well. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel on this section of the project now.
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Apr 18, 2020 05:45
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That looks like a ton of work, holy cow. Well done. Do you need a vapor barrier to go with the insulation? I seem to recall the two usually go hand-in-hand.
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Apr 18, 2020 22:52
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Great job. One question: how are you going to accommodate a possible 4th duct downstairs? Isn't HVAC math based heavily on the number size and location of ducts? I assumed that you had to know your final layout before you installed the trunk so you'd know all the numbers were right. Is that not true? Disclaimer: I know very nearly nothing about HVAC.
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Apr 18, 2020 23:33
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Yes, sorta. There are two ways to do it. One is to: * Do a manual j load calculation for the whole house/every room in the house * Determine the amount of air required for each * Size the ducts very carefully to give the exact amount of flow required for each room Given the vastly differing construction, uneven sheathing permeability (some is original barn boards, some plywood, some zipsystem...), studs not even being on the same centers from one end of a wall to the other nevermind room to room, studs varying from 1.5 to 4 inches wide, different wall thicknesses all over, etc I started doing that and quickly realized I was going to be either wasting multiple days on it or my results would be total garbage. The other is to estimate how much AC you need, determine minimum duct size to keep airflow speed below a certain limit (above that speed, you typically start having a noisy system because of the rushing wind over sheetmetal edges and such), pad it a bit for good measure, then make some concessions because it's a loving 140 year old house and wasn't designed with central air in mind so there are beams and joists in your way, build it, and install dampers in each supply duct to adjust flow down/push more air to the other rooms. That's what I did. It did work - last summer was brutal temp and humidity wise and yet it was quite comfortable inside even without any insulation in 2 rooms and the upstairs hall and closets yet. It got a little warm (like 70 or so, comfortable humidity levels)) upstairs some days, but still perfectly livable, especially compared to the 95+ and swamp humidity outside. It'll be even better now. It may be necessary to rebalance the dampers for each season but that's no big deal really. I'll be leaving access ports for each one and all you gotta do really is mark the summer and winter positions, then take 15 minutes to change them in spring and fall. The possible extra duct will just be a small one anyways. I'm debating whether we'll need one to the bathroom or not since it's an addition from the early 1900s (from the look of it) and only shares a single wall with the rest of the house. It gets a little cold in there in the winter if the door is left closed. I don't think it'll need one but we'll see... It most likely will just be a small duct tapped off the same line that supplies the kitchen. TooMuchAbstraction posted:That looks like a ton of work, holy cow. Well done. There was absolutely no vapor barrier in this house before I bought it. I've added a lot but it's pretty nearly impossible to get into the spot it would need to be in the stairs given the duct, duct insulation, duct hangers, and stair insulation. Oh well. I've found some articles that indicate the kraft paper facing is considered a vapor barrier but I'm not sure I believe it. Treads are going awfully, because they are a complicated cut and my standards are too high. gently caress I hate finish carpentry.
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Apr 19, 2020 14:52
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Heroic levels of effort itt. Bravo
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Apr 19, 2020 15:54
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Hell yeah stair treads. I made one of these when I redid my stair treads/risers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL_xOq3h6xY It helped immensely. Like yourself, I completely hosed up my first few cuts, but as I got more experience with it the rest of the cuts went well. (I also made my own mini-track saw jig, because I didn't have an extra $600 lying around for a track saw.)
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Apr 19, 2020 17:10
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Just cover the stairs in carpet bing bong so simple. Loving it all kastein.
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Apr 20, 2020 04:56
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$600 for a track saw? I paid £160 for my scheppach with 2 700mm tracks. I paid another £40 for a 1400mm track later on clearance. Nothing wrong with it other than don't trust the angle indicator, always measure independently.
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Apr 20, 2020 12:08
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I was mostly referring to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKA7xf7Mqxo where he just blithely throws out the recommendation for the Festool track saw.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:36
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I hate Hate HATE HATE finish carpentry At least I'm getting somewhat alright at it. Kinda. Sorta. I tried cutting my first stair tread and failed miserably. The real issue that did me in was the premade treads I got from home Depot are 5/4 built up from a bunch of offcuts and trash with a layer of veneer on each face so they were 1-1/16 thick not 5/4 or anything else standard. And being butt-ugly blocking inside I can't just route the returns and forget about it since this is getting poly not paint. I was going to miter cut the corner and then route the edge and end of a piece of wood, miter it and attach it, but my miserable failure lead me to change my plans. Also I found out actual, solid wood, single-plank pine stair tread is 2.95/lf at my local lumberyard which is actually cheaper than the HD treads so I just bought that and returned the HD crap. Which means I can just route the returns instead of fiddle loving around with mitering and attaching stuff. Alright so my 9/16 radius bullnose bit arrived. Which meant *gulp* time to start making expensive wood into firewood. Return on the first one routed.  This is why cutting these to shape perfectly is such a pain, at least for me. The return has a finger that extends out onto the exposed stringer for appearance reasons. Which means I have to make 3 perfect cuts exactly where they need to be within 1/16, ideally more like 1/64 but I've lived with 1/16 in a few spots now.  First tread trimmed, pocketed, glued, and screwed in!  First six done and also screw head plugs glued in on most of them. I've started cutting those flush and sanding them down and it is a tedious pain in the rear end if I even try to maintain my standards.  I'm never building a flight of stairs like this again. I'll build something that's designed to not have all these picky super detailed cuts. Jesus. Just finished routing the returns on the last 8 treads, hoping to get 5 or 6 installed before calling it a night.
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Apr 28, 2020 22:57
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I hope the eventual buyer appreciates what they're getting. If I had any desire to live in the I can't *wait* to see the new build when you move. I mean, I can, 'cause I want to see this one done, but you know what I mean.
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Apr 29, 2020 19:48
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Understandable, I don't like the frozen North much either, just never knew there was anything better. That being said if anyone does want to buy it once it's done, I'd be more than willing to give a low five figure goon discount.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:38
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