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Ratoslov
Feb 15, 2012

Now prepare yourselves! You're the guests of honor at the Greatest Kung Fu Cannibal BBQ Ever!

Oh great Ranald, please let Sif become a famous actress. :pray:

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Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e: Thousand Thrones

ACTING (Also investigation)


So, before they can get to the passion play, the heroes have to solve a murder. This is surprisingly straightforward. Two of the leads they have are false, but lead to short mini-adventures, one is correct and leads directly to the real culprits. What they see is going to be based on what they investigate first; if you hadn't guessed, the well to do gentleman is the culprit while the rough jerk named Karl and the monk are the false leads. They're short, though, so our heroes will look into the monk first.

The Monk is Brother Marcus, the leader of the Order of the Veil. He believes he has an authentic holy veil imprinted with images of Karl. The images and things have begun to fade, and fearing the relic will no longer inspire hope, he's taken the drastic measure of buying Chokeweed Extract to use as a dye. He genuinely believes his relic is real and is just trying to help people, just in a silly way. His guilty conscience is easy to penetrate, because having to paint the relic has made him fear he's a fraud, too. His little group of monks have done nothing but spend the trip trying to heal people and lend comfort to them, he's just having a moment of weakness because he sees how bad things are in camp and is trying to make sure people have something to believe in. A Charm test from the Initiate of Rhya/doctor Katarine helps get through to him, and he admits he was touching up the Veil and has no intention of poisoning anyone, showing them the empty vial for the extract. Unfortunately for them, this is overheard. Angry zealots from the Crusade descend to tear the Veil apart as a fake, and Marcus is left sobbing and miserable. Katarine stays with him for awhile to try to comfort him while the others start the legwork on 'Karl', catching up with them later.

The Bluebelts are the next group, and they're absolute dicks. Their leader is an interesting example of character coming from Career; he's an Initiate to Demagogue to Crime Lord. His name is Morgan, but he calls himself Karl. All the Bluebelts call themselves Karl. As a young man, he was indentured to a priest, and he learned much of how to use the form of Sigmar's word and the cult's tendencies towards authoritarianism, xenophobia, and monodominism to get what he wants. Now he runs a sect of 'purity' obsessed thugs, who beat up 'heretics' and steal their poo poo. He's a crime boss and a huckster, using the darker tendencies of Sigmarism to put together his little blackshirt posse and make him a comfortable life among the Crusaders. He's also not the killer. Nor did he buy the extract. No, that was his second in command. While Morgan calls himself Karl 2nd, his 2nd is Karl 3rd, who bought the stuff to look for an opportunity to knock off his lazy boss and take over the racket. Because it's finally an opportunity for her, ahead of investigating, Shanna breaks into their tent (Stealth-20, which she can handle) and picks Karl 2 (Morgan's) chest open. Inside is a huge score of 112 crowns and 234 shillings (about another 10 crowns worth), some fine silk they took from someone they beat (25 more crowns in value), and Morgan's journal. Which is full of incriminating stuff about his plans, but nothing about poisoning. She happily robs the rear end in a top hat, and then the group goes to confront him. If you confront him in any way, he invites you to dinner to try to talk you out of being a problem (and do it on his own turf). Morgan doesn't like violence in his own presence. Unfortunately, this distraction is what Karl 3rd uses to try to poison Morgan.

Per-30 will spot the poisoning, and get Karl 3rd hosed up real bad and Morgan telling you everything he knows in gratitude. If they don't, Karl 3rd blames the PCs for the poisoning (whether Morgan survives with a save or not) and the other Bluebelts try to beat the poo poo out of them (or kill them, if Morgan died). Karl 3rd almost, almost gets away with it with our heroes, but Oleg makes the roll and spots the poisoning attempt, the last PC to roll. The chances someone notices are pretty good, hence the -30 since the whole party is attempting it. The heroes tell Morgan they know who he is, too, and that he'd best cut his poo poo out lest he end up dead like most crime bosses, pointing to what his lackey just tried. He tells them the last suspect Dieter keeps really weird company and was seen talking to an elf on the edges of the forest recently. This is true; Dieter and d'Trois's minions have captured some of the wood elves while they poked around the camp. The Bluebelts are pretty weak if it comes to a fight; they're just bullies, not a match for a team of seasoned adventurers. Our heroes are content that they stole every penny Morgan's made and have incriminating evidence about his BS to turn over to Father Helmut later, so no need to beat every one of these jerks.

Finally, our heroes deal with Dieter. Dieter is a highly talented spy, who has been working for the vampire for years. It's made him a lot of money, and while he was once a political agitator pushing for the liberty of the Empire, now he's just here for the money and doesn't give a poo poo about killing a little kid. This is a chance for Johan to match wits spy against spy, and if the heroes carefully eavesdrop on Dieter and his men, they'll hear them discussing replacing the actors and using the play as cover to strike at Karl. They can also learn this is they barge in, make trouble, and get in a fight, but Dieter is pretty dangerous and he's got a lot of weak toadies. Shanna gets back to robbing to look for any additional evidence (treasure), and if you do this, you can steal a ruby worth 50 crowns, and about 52 crowns (and 204 shillings!) from Dieter's stuff, as well as find costumes that show his sect is practicing to get into the play and replacing the actors. The party has made a goddamn killing robbing these jerks and Shanna is bouncing around happily all day.

Naturally, the next step is to use the play to ferret out who the would-be-killers are, involving the heroes both backstage and on stage to stop the plot. This is the highlight of the adventure, and genuinely fun. It's a bit of a contrived setup (even if the players fought and killed Dieter and his minions, the actual assassins would still be in place for the play, etc) but I forgive it because c'mon, they get to insert themselves into an over the top Sigmarite passion play to thwart a vampire. After talking it over with Helmut, they approach the Director, Wilhelm Schumaur, who already knows Sif is his new Grimgut. Syphan volunteers to use her magic to help with 'special effects' (she can generate light and sound, after all), Shanna and Johan get jobs backstage, Katarine is standing by in case anyone breaks a leg, Oleg gets cast as Kurgan Ironbeard, King of the Dwarfs, Rose is running around backstage to quietly warn the others of trouble, and this is all set up to go crazy.

The fun part about the play is that while it has a strict timeline of events, these are 'in case the players don't go loud yet' and 'unless the players intervene' sorts of things. If they find Lord d'Trois in the audience and make him out, they can always make chaos erupt at any point by attacking him (and indeed, it will be easier to keep him from Karl if they move faster). His plan is for a smoke bomb disguised as special effects to go off during act 2 when the porters are pushing around a great boar Sigmar hunted as a boy with his dad. Then the assassins will keep anyone from interfering as he runs in and grabs Karl, then drags him off to eat him. Unfortunately for him and his assassins, the heroes know about the overall plot and are alert for trouble, so what will happen now is a bunch of improvising on both sides. Meanwhile, the elves try to set up a sniper position and kill Karl, but no matter what they'll end up taking a shot at d'Trois first since he gets in the way of their attack.

For act 1, Katarine gets pushed out onto stage to play a shepardess since they're short on actors, which she has to do with Fel-20 since she doesn't have Acting. Note PCs who actually HAVE Acting can provide a great distraction from their friends working backstage on the assassin stuff by actually giving a good performance. Unfortunately, Katarine wasn't expecting to do this and suffers stage fright, flubbing her one line badly and sending the scene off kilter a little. Fortunately, Rose's Keen Raccoon Senses pick up the unnatural vampire creeping slowly through the crowd in a big cloak, and she points it out to Syphan. Meanwhile, Johan and Shanna discover the bomb and declare themselves the porters for the boar for scene 2. In the middle of it all, Shanna steals the bomb (Sleight of Hand-20), puts out the wick, and throws it in the trash. This has already ruined the plan of the Herald of the New Dawn Assassins, and alerts them that the heroes are trouble. They begin to adjust and prepare to arm their "Sigmar" for Act 3; they figure a real weapon against a prop weapon (and all the fake pigs blood bags for blood squibs) will let them murder Sif, the most dangerous fighter, with little trouble. Shanna's Thief Signs skill also picks up on a few of the assassins backstage as they signal to get ready to kill Shanna and Johan.

Shanna, Johan, Oleg, and Katarine go to quietly deal with assassins backstage to get some of them out of the picture, not realizing Sif is getting sent out there to fight a genuinely armed man. You get Per tests to realize his costume armor is real armor and his warhammer is real, with the idea that backstage PCs come up with ways to even the odds as their friend faces 'Sigmar' out on the stage. Syphan warns Sif, but it's too late and Sif is already on stage. You can run from the fight, which the crowd loves (because the cowardly orc is fleeing Sigmar!) or you can do this the Sif way. She's Norse. It's time for her to finally fight loving Sigmar, for real. After her lines. Meanwhile, the heroes have dropped several of the assassins that planned to quietly murder them backstage, and are hiding the bodies while Katarine talks the camp guards out of investigating with Charm. Sif tries Fel-30 to be a convincing Warboss, since she doesn't have Acting. Sif gets a 12, just barely failing; she's making it, yelling in Norse and strutting a bit, when someone who speaks the language yells 'THAT AIN'T ORCISH! THAT'S JUST NORSE!' from the audience. Boos follow as the killjoy ruins her debut, and then Sigmar takes a swing at her head. Sigmar is a dangerous fighter; he's a Sergeant and former Mercenary, with stats about 10 points below Sif in most places. She has a costume and a prop choppa. He has a real warhammer and chain armor. Syphan thinks fast and summons light, which dazzles him and penalizes his stats as his 'halo of holy power' malfunctions. Sig dodges the first two swings, then resorts to tackling him to Grapple. Once she has him on the ground, she starts trying to take the weapon and punching the poo poo out of him, as the crowd yells in disbelief that this play is showing Holy Sigmar struggling so.

Seeing his agent defeated is a trigger for D'Trois to go loud. Our heroes' version of this devolves to a Norsewoman in an Orc costume picking up 'Ghal Maraz' to rush a vampire as he charges the box, while a dwarf dressed like King Ironbeard charges to help the 'orc'. The fighting backstage spills out onto the stage as actors and extras run everywhere, a tiny raccoon trying not to get stepped on as the other heroes grapple and knife-fight with the remaining 4 assassins. The elves take their shot and damage the vampire, who then finds himself fighting the two warriors at once (and he's not a great fighter for a vamp) while the crowd rushes the stage to protect Karl. Syphan flings her magic into the clump of elves up in the high seats, trying to flashbang them, as Lorinoc the Elf Ranger orders a retreat. Everything is crazy for a few minutes, until our bloodied heroes are all standing on stage in disarray, the vampire is ash, everyone is yelling, and Karl is crying. Lacking any idea of what to do now, they take a bow, including the raccoon. This is the good poo poo. This an actual climax for an adventure.

If Sif had run, they'd have moved on to Oleg's scene, while more craziness and knife-fighting went on backstage. Meanwhile, the Heralds try to knife someone backstage with poison and also realize the 'actors' playing Grimgut and Ironbeard aren't their plants (especially as their group had no dwarfs). They start stepping up the attempts to murder the heroes backstage. Finally, there would have been the Battle of Black Fire Pass, with dozens of actors and gallons of pig blood on stage as they try to have a special effects extravaganza and the last 'easy' chance for the heroes to interrupt D'Trois or the elves. After that would come Sigmar's battle with Nagash, and D'Trois wouldn't be able to resist revealing himself and attacking, the dramatic irony of going for 'Sigmar' (Karl) during the Nagash being too strong for any vampire to resist. At any point that things go loud, total chaos erupts.

There's a ton going on in this part and lots of room to add your own. The GMing advice is great, telling you to keep things moving and shift attention enough to give all the PCs things to do, encouraging them to counterplan and plan against their enemies and improvise as they identify stuff out of place, and giving you enough material on what happens when things go loud to make a memorable climax. This is probably the first genuinely satisfying adventure conclusion in the series, as they save Karl from the attack (it notes the adventure works better if the PCs are trying to actually protect him) and are hailed as heroes.

Too bad he immediately gets 'kidnapped' again in the next act. Ah well.

Chapter 6 is genuinely pretty good. There are parts of the investigation that are too linear, but the play is a great comic and adventure setpiece that makes a great conclusion. This is also the first adventure in awhile where there was anything serious for the spy and thief to do! And the PCs actually got significant reward (albeit from stealing it from assholes, but that only makes it better!). Sif also takes Sigmar's lunch money, which amounts to 12 crowns. She has fulfilled the dream of every Norse: Punch Sigmar.

Next Time: Von Carsteinning

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Late cWoD feels like they were slowly working towards 'I roll Allies+Stat' and similar in nWoD but they hadn't quite got it yet.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

The book says to make sure characters have 'finished their second career' with extra adventures and stuff between Chapter 6 and 7. It also recommends inserting all of Terror in Talabheim there. Considering it would take Johan 29 advances to finish Spy, he's the benchmark and they're all going up to there, on the assumption they also fought off the rat-nazis in the middle of all this.

The effect this has on the power level will be considerable, but hey. The book said put a whole extra campaign in and make sure 'everyone has finished their second career' by now. Not my fault that's a bad way to guide advancement.

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E


Chapter 2: Prince Generation

Its princes define the Border Princes both figuratively and literally. “Prince” is a generic term here, as in principality; they rule more or less independently as petty lords, whatever their titles. And they do have titles, usually pretentious ones. As the characters the PCs will most likely focus on, each Prince gets an extensive list of traits, features, and relationships that describes almost every aspect of their character; no other section in this book goes nearly as in-depth. A Prince controls maybe an average of 60 squares, meaning almost every map has extensive areas outside of their control; this is by design, since it leaves lawless areas for monsters and border settlements. As such, unless you roll up an obscene number of princes, you’ll end up with plenty of room on your map (and you shouldn’t use too many princes, since you have to decide what their relationships with each other are and that workload increases exponentially). Renegade Crowns tells us that every region borders other regions whose princes might interfere with them despite not being present on the map, but since it gives us no rules for working with that I tend to ignore it and just make the region hard to access (that’s why Camet’s borders are mostly barren or mountainous). It also tells us that princes frequently band together, maintaining their individual characters and principalities but sharing foreign relationships, something I’ll make use of for the :rolldice: six princes I generate. Six is actually a pretty respectable number; a Prince is characterized by no less than 11 descriptors (original profession, race, experience, goal, principles, personality, quirks, dark secrets, court size, title, and relationships with other princes (each of which has its own set of values)) and I’ll have to generate all of those for each Prince. Cutting down on the number of diplomatic relationships I have to juggle will make this much easier.

The first step (and one of the most important) is determining what the Prince did before they became a Prince, since it determines their general approach to rulership.
  • Bandit: someone who did banditry professionally. Pretty obvious. A bit less than one in three princes started out as bandits. They usually come to power violently and get deposed quickly since they rarely have management skills, and they govern in one of two ways; they either operate like they did as independent bandits, using intimidation and violence to make themselves rich, or they try to puff themselves up and present themselves as glorious rulers with grandiose titles. The second approach tends to work better; bandits who try and lay out courts often end up actually thinking about what rulership entails.
  • Knight: someone who tries to emulate feudalism in their principality and their person; maybe one in five princes fall into this category. Though they tend to look down on their neighbors and hold to unrealistic moral codes (neither of which is mechanically represented, but whatever), there are often the most successful type of prince, since their warrior ethos and habit of drawing out legal codes like whatever feudal society they’re emulating makes for stable and well defended realms. Even if their predecessor wasn’t a knight, anyone who inherited their throne peacefully might qualify as a knight mechanically (yes, princes have stats given, I’ll get to them in a bit) since they’d use the same methods as any other knight. Knights also tend to adopt more modest and feudal-style titles.
  • Mercenary: a professional fighter who transferred from controlling a band of other professionals to controlling a principality. More than a third of all princes fit in this category, more than any other. These guys usually come to power after either getting stiffed and taking their payment in blood or just using their employees for a Klingon promotion. Most mercenary( tend to run their territory on military lines, with an emphasis on rank and a chain of command, but those that last often drift increasingly towards a knightly rulership style. Most don’t last that long; administering a territory is very different from administrating a military unit, so they often end up deposed the moment they lose control. Mercenaries usually adopt military sounding titles, though they are just as prone to self-aggrandizing titles as everyone else.
  • Merchant: people here to get rich, together holding maybe 1/20 of the principalities in the region. These guys are the worst of the worst; either they came to the Border Princes fleeing creditors or because they thought conditions there were optimal for making bank without need for morals or ethics. They usually come to power through money (whether by paying off mercenaries or a prince’s followers) and maintain their position by employing mutually-antagonistic mercenary groups and making regular payments. Before an outside force dethrones them or some mercenary inevitably decides to move in, they tend to run their holdings as particularly exploitative businesses and claim medieval-European-urban titles (like mayor or guildmaster).
  • Politician: anybody who rules through anything other than violence, clocking in at one in 25 princes. These guys usually start out as advisers and courtiers or heirs to previous rulers and control their lands through manipulation and politicking. They never shun violence – this is the Border Princes – but rarely fight directly (which is what separates them from almost every other type of prince). Most politicians’ principalities end up pretty stable if they can take the throne their predecessor already laid the groundwork, but unless they can master military action they often let their military decline enough that their neighbors take over.
  • Priest: one in 25 princes actually qualifies as a religious figure. Less likely to be on the run from justice or native to the area than almost any other type, priest princes are usually fanatics of some warlike god trying to prove themselves or spread their god’s influence; most priests can probably find a niche elsewhere, and anyone else dumb enough to come to the Border Princes rarely has the competence they need to take power. Most priests keep their actual titles from their religious hierarchy and don’t puff themselves up much.
  • Wizard: yes, one in 50 princes are actually professional spell casters. Wizards tend to be rare in the Border Princes anyway – better opportunities elsewhere, y’know, and that’s if they aren’t running from witch hunters or something – and those that do try to seize power struggle with a mistrustful population unwilling to trust them with power. Those that do seize control tend to stick around since magic is rare in the region and intimidating enough to keep neighbors at bay. Wizards tend to rule small territories (since they don’t have the administrative skills and charisma necessary to take over larger areas) and tend to take a lofty title with some magic adjectives slapped in front of it.



Their culture of origin also influences princes, obviously; from most to least common:
  • Border Princesers (?) are properly cynical and aware of local conditions, usually more successful than princes from other cultures (though they still make up less than half the total);
  • Imperials often try to emulate their homeland as much as possible, instituting Imperial institutions in miniature (even when that’s a bad idea) and naming their capital after some important Imperial city (this is common enough that locals differentiate between villages with the same name by attaching insulting adjectives);
  • Bretonnians usually drift towards aping knighthood, including granting their followers teeny fiefdoms and elevating their own Grail Maidens (the locals call them Drinking Harlots, mostly because it’s an accurate title);
  • Tileans try to re-create the Renaissance Italian culture they originated in with a mercenary culture flavor (since most started out as mercenaries), though they rarely make any kind of headway in the culture or prosperity departments;
  • Humans from other regions basically have their origins and behavior left to GM approval, though the book kind of implies they’re from Estalia (fantasy Spain) or Kislev (fantasy Russia);
  • Dwarves occasionally come down from the mountains to try and reclaim some lost mountainhold and are the most likely to have some official backing;
  • and Elves and Halflings occasionally come to power, though they’re so rare it’s hard to generalize about their behavior. According to the stereotype, all elves are wizards (untrue, though Elven princes usually encourage the rumor) and “all Halfling lords want to turn their realms into a giant pie shop. This has only happened once (or so most historians claim), and Max the Glutton used his enemies, and then his subjects, as ingredients.” :allears:.
Occasionally, you might roll something unsupported by the setting, like a halfling wizard; in that case, the book recommends you shift their classes around to something more likely but still thematically similar (for instance, that halfling might just be a charlatan). It also tells you you might want to add an extremely unusual prince to your map, like a Chaotic being, intelligent monster or undead, or a human from REALLY far off, but you should only have one of those per map since they are supposed to be rare in the first place.

While you can assume every prince is about at the same level, Renegade Crowns gives you tools to determine at what point in their lifespans/careers a given prince is, complete with career paths and stats (most princes are in their third career). I tend to ignore this section or just breeze over it since it’s tied into the system more than most parts of the book. While I’m talking about it, this book relies very little on crunch; for the most part it’s a mixture of write-your-own-fluff and GM advice. You could very easily take your results from these charts and translate them to another system. I’ve never done so, but I guess I might in the future.

After all this we get to generating a given prince’s personality. These elements aren’t setting-specific like the first two sections and boil down statless NPC generation (which it is). As such I’ll cover the individual rolls with a bit less granularity;
  • Goal: not just the Prince’s immediate goal, but the sort of thing they are aiming for long-term. Staying in power and gaining more power between them make up almost half the possible rolls, but the rest are spread out between everything from making money to building a dynasty to just trying not to die.
  • Principles: yes, despite the cynicism, most princes have standards. Well, you have a three in 10 chance of getting a prince who doesn’t actually have principles, but the book specifically notes they don’t tend to last any longer than anyone else. Most princes draw the line at consorting with Chaos, though a few try to stay honest, not kill innocents, or just be good people in general (and those last ones DO tend to die quickly).
  • Style: how a prince usually interacts with others. Most lean towards a couple flavors of ordering people around, though you have the occasional schmoozer, businessman, or one of those people who constantly insults you and expects to be insulted back (without ordering you murdered).
  • Secret: a story hook to use for undermining the Prince. These secrets range from being on the run from justice to worshiping Chaos to not actually having secrets to having done the sort of good deed that makes you look weak to your other amoral murderlords - or your having committed something beyond the pale even for warlords, like slaughtering an entire village down to the children, which if discovered would turn almost every person in the region against you. Also, you can occasionally roll multiple secrets, though the book recommends you cap the number at four before things get completely out of hand.
  • Quirk: some strange aspect of a prince’s behavior not hidden and serious enough to count as a secret but noticeable enough to show up if you spend time in their presence. These aren’t supposed to be crippling or get in the way of ruling, instead adding flavor to a ruler and possibly offering a hook PCs can use to manipulate them. These include things like having an overused catchphrase, never crossing some moral line (on the scale of, say, leaving payment when they confiscate the last of a village’s stores), being a religious fanatic, or flying into a rage upon seeing a certain uncommon color.
Next up is rolling up a court, and… Man, I don’t want to do this. You’re supposed to determine how many people are in each prince’s court, decide which of like a dozen different medieval administrative positions each has… I can’t help but think this is better to leave up to the GM, especially since unlike practically every other chart in the book the chart for title assignment is kind of dumb and unusable. Considering how much time you might spend with a given prince’s court, you’re better off sketching the details out yourself. When I present this map’s princes, I’ll just note how many people are in their courts and let you fill in the details.



We wrap up prince generation by determining their title and principality size. Title is pretty simple; you either choose their title or roll on a big ol’ list of 20 and use the result. To get the size of their principality, though, you roll on that very chart I showed off in the first update and portion off that number of squares as their holdings. Though you can place these wherever you want, you should probably center them on (marginally) arable land with natural borders between them and other princes, though you can do whatever you want, of course. While the book recommends rolling for principality size at the end of individual prince generation, I prefer to do it first; it lets me get a better handle on the personalities of my princes if I know what their situation is first. With all of that rolled, all your princes are now complete.

The final step of this process is figuring out what your princes think of each other. Often the princes will band together and share diplomatic relationships – the book gives you a complicated process for dividing them up fairly – but I find the results make groups of mutually antagonistic princes work like little hive minds, so I tend to avoid that method unless there’s a solid reason (for example, if they’ve been in an alliance for a long time). Each relationship has two values and one subvalue: length, type, and subtype. As you can probably guess, the first is how long a relationship’s been going on, the second is the general flavor of the relationship, and the third represents that relationship’s defining elements – say, if two princes are allied, they might be bound by ties of enlightened self-interest or by ties of sleeping together. The Border Princes being the Border Princes, the line dividing diplomatic and personal relationships is so thin it may as well not exist, so how your princes interact is as driven by personal feelings as much as realpolitik. As such there is no division between public and private feelings in these relationships; one prince having a crush on another is as valid and important a relationship as to princes playing diplomatic games, and the tables reflect this. In theory, you can roll independently for both sides of a relationship (say, if you get an Alliance result for one and a Fear result from another, the former party might believe their alliance is built on mutual respect while the other just plays along because they think the first will turn on them if they don’t), but the book recommends against this as it tends to produce “daft” results; I recommend against it because it makes relationship generation too complex and hard to jigsaw together.
  • Alliance: the princes work together for a given reason. The Border Princes being what it is, alliances never spring out of mutual respect and good feeling, instead of always having some justification (provided by the subtype). These motivations run from political calculations to respect earned in battle to personal ties unrelated to their status as princes. As alliances are rare in the region, they come with a bunch of special rules; long-standing alliances need multiple reasons to keep them going, while princes rarely have multiple alliances at once (especially given how the subtypes work; RAW it’s possible to roll up an entire region’s worth of princes in a massive polyamorous relationship, and while that’s awesome, it’s not thematically appropriate).
  • Bitterness: the Prince doesn’t just hate the other party; they want them to suffer for a specific reason. This means their actions revolve around getting revenge for something personal, whether the other prince executed a close relative, kicked them out of the family, or just failed to realize they were a gigantic incel.
  • Contempt: the Prince’s thinks the other one is so weak they either plan to invade them, ignore them, or try to use them as pasties in some other scheme. This perception might be based on military or personal incompetence, experience, or just thinking the other party is such a goody-goody that they’d never fight back.
  • Envy: not just wanting something from another prince, but specifically wanting to take it from them. Not just, like, land or material goods (though those are possibilities); they might want their skills, reputation, or just good looks. No, it being physically impossible to steal those things does not, in fact, matter.
  • Fear: the Prince does whatever the other prince wants, at least until they can find a way out. Some aggressive princes try to cultivate fear in their neighbors, which can work until someone finally finds a flaw to exploit and gathers a coalition to do just that. While some flavor of military fear is standard, they might also be afraid of the other party’s knowledge or supernatural abilities (as in they are a wizard or undead, you should probably reroll this for mere mortals. The book implies this subtype only applies to people with actual supernatural powers, but princes aren’t always exactly sane and one that’s convinced (falsely) that another’s magic makes a good plot hook).
  • Hatred: gently caress that guy. Usually, this relationship is so intense the first prince has a hard time planning around their hatred. Chart-wise, this hatred will probably spring from some offending act, but it might also just mean that that Prince is a bigot.
  • Respect: I half-lied, it is possible for princes to respect each other. If a prince respects another prince, they think that Prince is neither a threat nor a weakling; they are someone the Prince can interact with as an equal without worrying about being backstabbed (as much as is possible in the Border Princes). This might come from respect for their intelligence, family line, ability to survive, or (shockingly) because they think they’re a nice person.
  • Rivalry: the Prince doesn’t have any particular feelings about the other; they’re just looking for a weakness or prepping for something else. This category has no subcategories because it’s the base state of diplomatic relations in the Border Princes. Next.
  • Vengeance: like hatred, but even more specific - instead of being based on general feelings, it springs from a single offending event. It’s almost always based in an actual wrong, though that wrong may actually be way out of proportion with the vengeance they wants to take.
  • War: the Prince is actively trying to kill the other (or at least take their stuff through violence). Possible causes include rolls on the envy, fear, hatred, or vengeance tables, or just wanting to conquer their land.



After you’ve rolled up and written down all those diplomatic relations, you’ve completed this stage of region creation (in theory you can work out internal politics at this point, but the book specifically advises against this; it’s a lot of work and more easily done on the fly. Thanks for the court generation section, then. Why is it here?). The last section of this chapter briefly covers how to piece together the history of your region (I’ve already done that) and then we can move on to creating individual principalities.

I’d present writeups of those princes here, but this update is long enough already and posting them now would probably double or even triple its wordcount. I’ll probably put that up as a 2.5 update in a bit before moving on to principality generation.

Falconier111 fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Apr 21, 2020

LazyAngel
Mar 17, 2009

Next Heart segment should be up tomorrow - horrendous migraine over the weekend delayed things a bit.

Aethyron
Dec 12, 2013
Hunter: the Reckoning - Player's Guide

Part Six: Changing Creeds

Chapter 4: The Measure of Humanity

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruptible, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
-1Corinthians 15:54


This chapter, we are told, is going to help us get to know who our character is and how he (yes it says he) can change during the course of a chronicle, so I hope you all are ready for some pretty bad advice and more of the game's intense dread that you might try to make (gasp) a soldier.

But the first section we hit is actually pretty interesting! Changing Creeds, an idea that I don't remember ever encountering anywhere else in Hunter, is brought up here as an optional way to play the game- and while it's not necessarily something I'd always go with it's a very cool and useful inclusion here. It makes sense, depending on your interpretation of the Creeds and the extent to which they're hardcoded into a Hunter by the Messengers. But if you look at the Creeds as primarily ideological then of course, why shouldn't you be able to change yours?

Naturally, we're told that changing a Creed is a roleplaying matter and thus there will not be any hard-and-fast rules, although to be honest I'm less bothered about it here.

Changing Creeds usually involves changing your primary Virtue entirely, although it's certainly possible to make a smaller shift between different Creeds of the same Virtue. Hermits and Waywards are too extreme and/or damaged to change creeds, however, and other Hunters are also prohibited from switching to them.

It's mentioned that your Hunter could potentially change Creeds multiple times, but it's discouraged as changing your Creed is a pretty radical shift for a character so doing it too many times sort of squanders the impact of previous changes.

Switching your primary Virtue is a big change, and since your new primary Virtue is probably going to be lower than your old one, you're going to have to deal with a few things until you can rebalance them properly. If you already had your highest Virtues tied you can avoid these penalties unless you get tripped up by the requirement that your highest ranking Edge come from your Creed, in which case you're also getting hit with some penalties. This can really hurt you if you're switching Creeds within the same Virtue, as you'll have a much harder time getting your highest Edge to be from your new Creed. When you change to a new Creed you're unable to risk Conviction on Edges from your old Creed (or primary Virtue) until your new Virtue is your highest and your highest Edge is from your new Creed, which is pretty punishing.

New Zealots and Visionaries are unable to risk Conviction on their old Edges during direct confrontation with monsters, while newly Merciful Hunters can't do it when using Edges "directly against monsters, people, or other hunters" which is probably much worse but really hinges on your definition of 'against'.

People usually become Avengers for the very obvious reason: personal loss, but sheer frustration is another common reason as Hunters lose patience with theory and investigation. Avengers tend to be the most suspicious of Hunters who change creeds, mostly because they already tend to have a lot of trust issues. They're also very scornful of ex-Avengers.

Defenders, meanwhile, tend to be born out of fear- when a Hunter has a moment of 'dreadful clarity' about the dangers that the hunt brings for their friends and family. They're too hyperfocused on the people they're protecting to care about Hunters changing Creed unless they view the change as threatening their ability to protect their charge.

Hunters become Judges when they start feeling the need to take a leadership or tactical-planning role among other Hunters- maybe a bungled Hunt drives someone to feel a need to take command, or they're replacing an incompetent leader. Judges are more likely to react negatively to a Creed change if they're surprised by it.

Hunters becoming Innocents later in their careers is rare, as Innocents thrive on their optimism and idealism, traits that tend not to last long among other Hunters. When it happens, it often involves suddenly gaining "a profound sense of understanding, a sudden realisation that the other side isn't all bad" (lol innocents). An encounter with a sympathetic monster or an overly bloodthirsty Hunter can also push someone towards Innocence. Innocents tend to be supportive of other Hunters changing Creed, unless that Hunter is going in a more violent direction in which case they appoint themselves as that Hunter's conscience and try to sway them to a more tolerant outlook.

(Honestly, a lot of that sounds a lot more Redeemer-y to me, but I've never fully understood how Innocents are supposed to work or what they do besides both-sides everyone and throw themselves neck-first into vampires' mouths.)

When Hunters embrace Martyrdom it tends to be as a result of a terrible mistake on the Hunt. Unlike other Merciful Hunters, Martyrs are a lot more accepting of Hunters changing creeds in a direction that they personally dislike, although they'll still try to sway the Hunter through demonstrations of their own beliefs. This section is weirdly much shorter than the others.

Becoming a Redeemer involves a shift towards rehabilitation rather than destruction and can often be the result of burnt-out Hunters giving up on violence in disgust or despair. It can also come as a result of seeing another Redeemer's healing abilities or, obviously, an encounter with a sympathetic monster. Redeemers welcome Hunters who change Creeds in their direction but can become "relentless enemies" who do everything they can to hamstring a newly-violent Hunter's efforts, short of attacking them.

Becoming a Visionary is often a matter of frustration, Hunters who get fed up with fighting small battles that never seem to mean anything turning to try to understand the bigger picture. Visionaries rarely care either way when other Hunters change creeds, but do like to take new Visionaries under their wing. They also tend to be pretty inquisitive with Hunters who have changed Creeds as they seek to understand what makes other Creeds tick.

We also have a section on Hunter Triggers, which is something from the corebook I'd totally forgotten about. It also does not mean what you might think it means- it's when a Hunter develops some external 'trigger' to activate an Edge, often an object, gesture or 'utterance'. Hunters do this for a variety of reasons, such as attempting to dissociate themselves from their supernatural powers to retain their own humanity, or more simple motivations like comfort, ritual and routine.

Not every Hunter will have these- many are simply confident enough not to need them, but other more thoughtful Hunters sometimes look at them as impediments to be overcome.

Triggers can take a variety of forms- mementos, tools, phrases, ritual actions, each of which gets some example detail here, including a lot of advice on how to tie them to your hunter's character. Being deprived of yours might force you to pay a higher Conviction cost to activate an Edge, but doing that actually lowers the cost next time you use the Edge with its trigger, from the extra rush of confidence of knowing you don't actually need it.

I'm glossing over this pretty heavily because while there's nothing wrong with it, even the book admits that triggers aren't a big deal, and should serve more as window-dressing for character.

Anyway, this post is feeling a bit long so I'm going to end here. Next time, we'll get to the roleplaying advice stuff which is going to alternate wildly between frustrating, terrible, and hilarious.

Coming up: Okay, next time we'll get to the dab for sure.

Aethyron fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Apr 21, 2020

grassy gnoll
Aug 27, 2006

The pawsting business is tough work.
I needed something to draw and was totally tapped for ideas, so I did headshots of the Thousand Crowns. Just in time for them to be totally changed by an entire interstitial campaign of Rat Nazis!

Inlined 'cause it's kinda big.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Oh, they'll look mostly the same! Just with a few extra scars.

Oleg's constant annoyance with this bullshit is spot on. Syphan looking like she's perpetually on cocaine is also fairly accurate. I actually really like the slim look you did for Johan, too. Thank you for doing this, it's neat as heck!

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



I also really like Syphan and Sif's characters by the way. I don't even really care about the adventure at this point and just honestly enjoy them.

Also, thank you, Hams, for being on the short list of fiction that makes Dark Elves just evil elves, they're dark cause they do evil magic and not because of weird racist poo poo. Very low bar to clear but here we are.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e: Thousand Thrones

After Nazis

So, the book suggests inserting Terror in Talabheim here if you own it. And you know, I did just review it. It also suggests PCs should be 'finishing their 2nd Career' at the beginning of Chapter 7. I want to point out this is a terrible way to yardstick things, and to do that, the party is set to the character who will most struggle to finish his career, Johan. Johan took 5100 EXP to finish Spy. Spy is insanely long. So assume they had an entire, much better adventure where they fought rat nazis enough to gain 29 advances between Chapter 6 ending and Chapter 7 starting. This also gives me an excuse to show off what genuine high level PCs look like, and how goddamn terrifying they are.

Sif Gundredsdottir, The Champion of Challenges

quote:

Name: Sif Gundredsdottir
Species: Norse Human (Mutant)
Mutations: Growth (+7 Str, +5 Tough, -2 Agi, +2 Wounds, +1 Mv)
Career: Ex-Mercenary, Ex-Veteran, Champion
EXP: 5100
Stats:
++++++++WS 83, +++++BS 55, +++++S 73, +++++T 70, ++++++Agi 60, Int 31, ++++WP 54, Fel 35
++++++++Wounds: 22/22
Fate: 3/3
++Attacks: 3
Movement: 6 (5 in armor)
Skills:
Speak Language (Norscan, Reikspiel)
Common Knowledge (Norsca, Empire)
Outdoor Survival
Sail
Consume Alcohol
Gamble
Dodge Blow+20
Ride
Gossip
Intimidate
Perception+10
Secret Language (Battle Tongue)
Swim
Talents:
Fleet Footed
Mighty Shot
Lightning Reflexes
Quick Draw
Strike Mighty Blow
Strike to Injure
Sharpshooter
Rapid Reload
Frenzy
Specialist Weapon (Flail, Longbow)
Very Strong
Very Resilient
Gear:
Full Heavy Armor (AV 5 All)
Shield
Healing Draught
Best Quality Morningstar
Best Longbow and 10 arrows
Two Best Quality Hand Axes
Best Quality Dagger
Best Quality Punchin’ Gauntlet

Sif Gundredsdottir has not found any of the immense treasure her father told her was to be had in the south by being an Adventurer. She's found some treasure, true; she's decked out in proper Imperial plate armor, she's got fine weapons, etc etc. She's certainly found some glory, now having been a major part of saving the city of Talabheim, fighting multiple vampires, and otherwise being the giant, armored bulwark that keeps her friends alive. But she's beginning to suspect her old man just got lucky and she's never going to earn enough to buy her own freehold and thralls back home. She did, however, get to punch the poo poo out of 'Sigmar' in front of a bunch of Sigmarites, and that does make her happy. She's also spent the last couple weeks shooting, stabbing, and strangling rat nazis, which was certainly an interesting experience. More than anything, she sticks around because of the friends she's made. Whatever track they're on, she's going to see it through to the end. She's been through this much poo poo (literally, in some cases) with these people, and they need her. Until this is over, nothing that stands against them will stand against her.

Look at Sif's stats. This is what a 5000 EXP+ pure Fighter looks like. Sif has a slightly less than even chance of soloing the potential final boss of the campaign, who is meant to be invincible and unkillable. You remember how numbers were so dangerous awhile back? Sif's rocking DR 12, and hits for Damage 8 in melee. She's a good shot with her bow, too, and she's only going to get better. She still has the option of picking up some more weapons, and her physical stats are basically unbeatable outside of someone like a Grail Knight, a powerful Vampire, or a Chaos Lord. Even then, she'd be able to take the basic Chaos Champion in a duel. Sif only does one thing, but she does that thing insanely well. Even without her mutation, she'd still have hit SB 6, TB 6. Champions are the real goddamn deal and they're surprisingly easy to get into. Veteran is strong, but it isn't that long for a 2nd tier. Champion IS pretty long, since you have to master melee and ranged, but at the end of it you've mastered melee and ranged. Many combats that would have overwhelmed the whole group earlier in the campaign? Sif could solo them now. Those 12 Lahmian thugs? Sif could probably handle all 12 of them at once, since most of their attacks would bounce off her DR, her active defenses, etc. None of the remaining Vampire enemies are actually a match for Sif.

Syphan of Naggarythe (Naggarond), The Best Witch Elf

quote:

Name: Syphan of Naggarythe (Naggarond)
Species: Druchii Elf (Claims to be Asur)
Career: Ex-Apprentice Wizard, Ex-Journeyman Wizard (200’d), Ex-Seer, Ex-Vikti (200’d), Pit Fighter
EXP: 5100
Stats:
+++WS 55, BS 36, ++S 54, ++T 51, ++Agi 51, +++Int 46 (56), +++++WP 60 (70), ++Fel 44
+++++Wounds: 17/17
Fate: 2/2
Movement: 5
+Attacks: 2
++Mag: 2 (3)
Skills:
Common Knowledge (Naggaroth)
Speak Language (Eltharin With A Canadian Accent, Reikspiel, Classical, Dark Tongue)
Academics (Magic)
Channeling
Dodge Blow
Magical Sense
Intimidate
Perception
Read/Write
Search
Speak Arcane Language (Magic, Daemonic)
Talents:
Atheyric Attunement
Arcane Lore (Light Elemental)
Extra Spell (Radiant Weapon)
Extra Spell (Radiant Sentinel)
Lesser Magics (Dispel, Armor)
Luck
Fast Hands
Coolheaded
Excellent Vision
Keen Senses
Mighty Missile
Nightvision
Petty Magic (Arcane)
Strike Mighty Blow
Witchcraft (Claws of Fury)
Witchcraft (Fireball)
Special Weapons (Two-Hander)
Very Resilient
Very Strong
Gear:
Quarter Staff
Backpack
Book
Best Hand Weapon (Elfsword)
Dagger
Best Great Weapon (Greataxe)
Full Studded Armor (AV2)

Syphan never quite expected to be fighting Skaven. To be truthful, she didn't expect half of what she's run into since leaving Marienburg; the world seems even more violent than her homeland in Naggarond sometimes. And she loves it. Ever since she left home, she's sought to challenge herself. While she's proven extremely unable to grasp 'high magic' the way she originally planned to, she was able to pick up a few cross-wind conjurations that make her terrifying in battle. Able to call the Amber Wind and Red Wind to some degree, she remains strong in the White, only now she's capable of massively enhancing her ability to rip people apart with her bare hands. A tactic she originally developed to terrify Stormvermin during the team's phase as resistance leaders, but it seems to come naturally to her. In many ways, she's completed her transition from elf who is a witch to being a Witch Elf of Naggarond, all on her own meandering path of martial arts and magic. She has no idea where the team's current destiny is taking them anymore; things just seem to happen randomly, though she's quite angry at the crazy Asrai who keep following them around and continually failing to kill a nine year old boy. She's come to see many reflections of Malekith's own authoritarian madness in the manner of the Sigmarite fanatics who made up parts of the Crusade, and she's sworn to help her friends get the kid at the center of it all away from it if only to stop him going down that path. Nobody's allowed to end up like her homeland. One hosed up authoritarian nightmare ruled by its 'god-king' overlord is more than enough for this world already.

She still misses maple syrup. That one bottle didn't last long.

Syphan is mechanically the absolute weirdest character on the team. She probably would have been stronger if she devoted herself to either being a warrior OR a wizard. But I looked at her stats, I looked at her character, and I said 'gently caress IT LET'S DO BOTH', and the end product is a weird-rear end character who can rip and tear with her bare hands (Claws of Fury is an insanely good weapon summon, because it's +1 Attacks, +10% to hit, and the 'claws' are both Hand Weapons with Fast, which means you're dual-wielding, which means you can Free Parry with your bare hands), throw bolts of fire, fire her laser eyes, gently caress up demons, and also kill people with a big goddamn axe if she prefers. Her physical stats are good enough to hang with real fighters, and the 'light' armor she's wearing gives her just enough DR that she can rely on her active defenses. She still has all her utility magic, and her ability to speak spooky evil languages will really help! She's also become way less of just a furious heroic dumbass thanks to her magical raccoon; Rose picked up Link of Psyche, which makes them both smarter. Rose has also spent her own EXP on a total of +40 Int, Resistance to Chaos, Knowledge (Science), and Knowledge (History). Rose is extremely smart. Rose is smarter than her master. Rose is actually probably the smartest person on the team with Link of Psyche making her Int 65.

Shanna Applebottom, Resistance Commander

quote:

Name: Shanna Applebottom
Species: Halfling
Career: Ex-Thief, Ex-Fence, Crime Lord
5100 EXP
Stats:
++++WS 35, ++++BS 65, +++S 36, +++T 36, ++++Agi 69, +++++Int 56, ++++WP 48, ++++++Fel 67
++++++Wounds: 17/17
Fate: 3/3
+Attacks: 2
Movement: 4
Skills:
Academics (Genealogy)
Common Knowledge (Halflings)
Gossip
Speak Language (Halfling, Reikspiel)
Trade (Cook)
Charm+10
Concealment
Command
Evaluate
Gamble+10
Intimidate
Haggle
Pick Locks
Perception
Read/Write
Sleight of Hand
Search
Secret Signs (Thief)
Silent Move
Talents:
Dealmaker
Resistant to Chaos
Menacing
Night Vision
Public Speaking
Special Weapons (Sling, Crossbow)
Sturdy
Streetwise
Strike to Stun
Super Numerate
Gear:
Full Medium Armor (AV 3 All)
Sling
Sack (For Loots)
Lockpicks (Master of Unlocking)
10 yards of rope
Hand Weapon (Cudgel)
Dagger (Stabbin)
Repeater Crossbow and 2 boxes of ammo
Criminal Organization (The Resistance)
Team Purse: 300 Crowns

When Shanna set out from the Moot, she did not anticipate becoming a feared Resistance commander. She never really expected that her talent for mathematics and organization would have to be put to use picking who and where they would engage in calculated and precise political violence. But she turned out to be very good at it. While Sif and Syphan terrified their foes, while Oleg served as a commando and Johan infiltrated, and Katarine kept spirit and body alive, Shanna was always found with the map-table and lists of the citizens and soldiers they'd recruited. The same skills that would have made her an excellent businesswoman or a highly effective mafioso turned out to be quite helpful for shepherding limited resources and limited manpower to hit an infinite swarm of screaming rat nazis as hard as possible. She's come out of it more confident, and more dangerous, than she ever was going in. Now that the great work of liberating Talabheim is done, she turns her mind and her friends towards finishing the fight they started so long ago when they left Middenheim. It feels like a lifetime since she was just a humble thief upset at the rivers of corruption flowing through Marienburg; now she's seen the world can be so much worse. And what can you do but swim upstream and do what you can to put it all back to order and set it right?

Shanna is still a competent thief and infiltrator. Now she's also a talented leader and social character. She's just about done with Crime Lord and will head from there into Master Thief, finally picking back up at being an expert infiltrator now that her duties in Talabheim are at an end. She's still the worst in the party in a fight by a longshot, and the Repeater Crossbow is a terrible weapon, but she can shoot twice for Damage 2 and that's honestly better than a single rock a turn for Damage 3. Her social and infiltration skills will mostly go unused at the latter part of the campaign; she has them because they're logical developments of her character and career path, not because they're particularly useful for the adventure. Shanna has probably suffered the most for her role being somewhat underused; a lot of the time she's just the worst fighter in the party and not much else. Which is a shame, because she's a highly competent face and rogue.

Johan Kleiner, the unshakable agent

quote:

Name: Johan Kleiner
Species: Imperial Human
Career: Ex-Servant, Ex-Spy, Assassin
5100 EXP
Stats:
+++WS 47, +++BS 48, +S 44, ++T 41, ++++Agi 62, ++++Int 58, +++++++WP 71, ++++Fel 55
++++Wounds: 14/14
Fate: 3/3
+Attacks: 2
Movement: 4
Skills:
Common Knowledge (Empire, Wasteland)
Speak Language (Reikspiel, Kislevite, Dark Tongue)
Gossip+10
Trade (Cook)
Blather
Charm
Concealment
Disguise
Dodge Blow
Lip Reading
Performer (Actor)
Pick Lock
Search
Shadowing
Haggle
Perception
Read/Write
Secret Language (Cryptography)
Silent Move
Sleight of Hand
Talents:
Acute Hearing
Etiquette
Flee!
Lightning Reflexes
Linguistics
Resistant to Magic
Schemer
Sixth Sense
Suave
Savvy
Unnoticed (Can use Stealth skills if blending in, gets +10 to them once he has the skill)
Gear:
Good Craftsmanship Clothes (With Big Hat)
Studded Leather Armor (AV 2 All)
Storm Lantern w/Oil
Pewter Tankard (His ‘retirement’ gift)
Tinderbox
Superior Sword (+10 WS, taken from dick Hunter)
Dagger
3 Crowns
Shield
Disguise Kit

Like everyone in the Thousand Crowns, Johan has come a long, long way. He barely remembers why he wanted to be a chef; those days sweeping the floors and coming up with recipes are so far away they may as well have belonged in another life. Ever since realizing he'd been 'had' by Karl's powers, Johan has trained himself to be nearly impossible to shake or control. He's learned all manner of tricks to conceal his mind from magic and dark powers; projecting the wrong emotions, reciting repetitive recipes mentally, lying with his entire being if he has to. While he wants to save the boy like the rest of them, he will not be used again; whatever he chooses to do in the future, he will do of his own free will and not because of any compulsion effect or any order from those who think themselves above him. His skills at blending in (and at quietly murdering ratmen) were very useful throughout the campaign in Talabheim; spies were essential to discovering where they had to strike, and his abilities at both deceit and self control let him slip among the Skaven as if he was nothing but an ordinary slave, able to bear any misfortune or abuse. Until he was garroting the Clawleader and stealing all their documents, of course. He's gained enough experience ending lives as well as watching them that he's accepted the grim reality of being an assassin as well as an agent; whatever BS the Thousand Crowns face, he's sure it will involve shedding blood.

Johan's an okay fighter. He'll be a much better one in about 300 EXP. Whenever it's actually been allowed, though, Johan is way better at being a spy and agent than he is at being a backline warrior. He's got the most straightforward path outside of Sif's basic 'I Am A Fight Gal', but Spy is an insanely long career and so took him forever to actually finish. Note he's highly intelligent, basically unshakeable (especially with Resistance to Magic), and generally a far cry from the simple cook/sanitation engineer who made friends with Syphan and decided to form an adventuring party. It's a terrible shame his skills as an infiltrator will mostly go unused for most of the campaign, and Assassin isn't a particularly great career anyway. The only real talent it's got is giving him facility with poisons and 3 attacks. But it'll do.

Oleg Balinson, the man who has seen it all

quote:

Name: Oleg Balinson
Species: Dwarf
Career: Ex-Runebearer, Ex-Shieldbreaker, Ex-Scout, Vampire Hunter
EXP: 5100
Stats:
++++WS 61, ++++BS 47, ++S 48, ++++T 66, +++Agi 40, ++++Int 58, ++++WP 57, Fel 25
+++++Wounds: 17/17
Fate: 1/1
+Attacks: 2
+Movement: 5
Skills:
Academics (Necromancy)
Animal Care
Charm Animal
Common Knowledge (Dwarfs)
Concealment
Speak Language (Khazalid, Reikspiel)
Trade (Smith)
Dodge Blow+10
Follow Trail
Navigation
Outdoor Survival
Ride
Scale Sheer Surface
Secret Language (Ranger Tongue)
Secret Signs (Scout)
Silent Move
Shadowing
Perception+10
Swim
Talents:
Coolheaded
Dwarfcraft
Grudge Born Fury
Orientation
Night Vision
Magic Resistance
Mighty Shot
Rapid Reload
Sure Shot
Specialist Weapons (Crossbow)
Stout Heart
Sturdy
Strike Mighty Blow
Strike to Injure
Strike to Stun
Flee
Fleet Footed
Orientation
Rapid Reload
Very Strong
Very Resilient
Gear:
Full Plate Armor (AV 5 all)
Hand Weapon (Axe)
Shield
Crossbow and 10 bolts
Repeater Crossbow and 2 Boxes

Oleg really thought this job was going to involve the out of doors more than it did. A true Dwarven Ranger, he's still found ways to apply his axe and his crossbow against the enemies of his people, his clan, and his friends. Slaying Skaven is always a good thing any true dwarf should be ready to do, and the big Norsewoman needs some backup on the front lines or she'll just get herself into more trouble. Especially now that the crazy elf keeps jumping in to try to rip things apart with her hands. Oleg prides himself on being one of the most level-headed of the team; the dwarf has to be, everyone else seems to go a bit sideways in the stress. His quick feet, steady aim, and excellent axe hand made him a hero in Talabheim, even if he can't quite keep up with Sif on the front lines. His skill with tunnels and navigation helped the resistance time and again. But that mess is over, and a good dwarf's work is never done. Now he turns his attention to hunting other prey; the vampires seem to get in their way at every turn, and there are plenty of grudges to settle with those bastards anyway. Somebody on this team should have some drat idea what they're fighting, and it always seems to fall to the dwarf to do the hard work.

Oleg is on the cusp of being way better. He suffers some for flavor; he should really be using a Longbow, it's inherently superior, but c'mon, what dwarf ever used an elf weapon. He's tough, he's skilled in a fight with shield and axe, he's still fast as hell for a dwarf, and he knows his Ranger business well. He just suffers the fact that Rangers have fuckall to do in this campaign. Not a one has there been a serious wilderness section where the right move wasn't to hire a guide. If the team had relied on Oleg doing the job he was created to do, they'd have suffered immensely because the book punishes you for not having guides. Oleg is about to kick this poo poo into high gear, though; as soon as he finishes Vampire Hunter (and he's almost done with it) he's headed right to WITCH HUNTER, which is a hell of a 3rd tier. Amusingly, he'll be entering that career about when they finish fighting Vampire Bullshit and get on to fighting Witch Bullshit. The dwarf knows to be prepared. He's planned it all out.

Katarine, the awakened priestess

quote:

Name: Katarine
Species: Human
Class: Ex-Servant, Ex-Barber Surgeon, Ex-Initiate of Rhya, Ex-Priestess of Rhya (Daughter of Rhya), Warrior Priestess of Rhya
Stats:
++WS 45, ++BS 40, +S 41, ++T 40, ++Agi 52, ++Int 46, ++++WP 55, +++Fel 62
++++Wounds: 16/16
Fate: 2/2
++Magic: 2
5100 EXP
+Attacks: 2
Movement: 4
Skills:
Academics (Theology, History, Science)
Blather
Charm+10
Channeling
Common Knowledge (The Wasteland)
Dodge Blow
Gossip+10
Haggle
Heal+20
Outdoor Survival
Magical Sense
Perception+10
Read/Write
Ride
Search
Sleight of Hand
Speak Language (Reikspiel, Classical)
Speak Arcane Language (Magic)
Swim
Trade (Cook) (Man, this party has 3 good cooks)
Trade (Apothecary)
Talents:
Armored Caster
Coolheaded
Divine Lore (Rhya and Taal)
Flee!
Hardy
Petty Magic (Divine)
Lightning Reflexes
Suave
Savvy
Surgery
Strike to Stun
Very Strong
Warrior Born
Trappings:
Nice New Outfit (With Hat)
Sif's Handaxe (Hand Weapon)
Dagger
Actual Boots
Full Studded Leather Armor (AV2)
Trade Tools (Barber Surgeon)
Holy Sigil of Rhya
Maiden's Charms
Divine Marks:
Rhya’s Mein (+5 Fel)
Enlivened Flora (Plants grow around her)

Not simply a doctor any longer, Katarine has found a world she never knew existed. The blessings of Rhya have fallen upon her as she's fought to defend her newfound cult against the despoilment of the Skaven, seeking to comfort the people, heal the sick, and kill the goddamn rat nazi. Magic has found her, and her prayers have awakened into a power she could never have imagined; where she blesses her friends, they find the strength of the bear, the speed of the stag, and the comfort of the mother of all. Plants grow in her wake, and her body has changed, growing taller and broader in the image of her goddess. No-one who looks at her now would see the thin and terrified girl the heroes rescued in that dark sewer months ago. She considers the task of rescuing Karl from the Crusade and bringing this distortion to an end a holy charge from the mother of all; giving the boy the home he wishes for could put an end to so much pain and grief. She is forever grateful to her friends for helping her out of that dark hole, and all she's learned can be bent to keeping them sane and alive as they try to cut through to the end of their long quest.

Katarine is an amazing doctor. Katarine also has a goddamn Divine Lore, and got pretty favorable Divine Marks. Of all the heroes, she's probably the most changed physically, having become much more of an image of a fertility goddess through the blessings of Rhya. Her magical support can buff up allies; she can do stuff like give someone +20% to Str or let them move farther and Charge as a half action. She can heal allies magically, letting the team act like they'd rested for several days and spent time recovering from sickness and fatigue. She can AOE STUN. Divine Magic is goddamn awesome, and the Taal and Rhya Lore she uses is a real winner. She's in Warrior Priest because it's honestly just better than Anointed Priest for the majority of characters. She'll slowly become a fairly competent combatant, but her real job is still being a medic. She just has powerful support magic and excellent social skills now, too. Not bad for someone who was supposed to die to show the PCs they couldn't do anything to make the world a better place.

Together, they cover all the bases of a party and they're pretty terrifyingly effective. Most characters at this level are; it's basically impossible to build a 'bad' PC at this point. Even Syphan, whose class mix is as crazy as she is, is legitimately really effective and has been ever since she unlocked Lore of Light. Very little of what's coming will be particularly mechanically difficult for them except the final dungeon, and that's...well, that's going to be its own thing. This is the campaign's own drat fault for telling me to 'make sure they finished their 2nd Careers' and 'Insert Terror In Talabheim in if you want more fun!'. Sadly, the upcoming adventures are going to really suck compared to Chapter 6 and TiT, but hey. They had a good run of real adventures, first.

Next Time: Are You Excited About Coaching Itineraries!?

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!


:vince: My cup runneth over :drat:


And now to watch how the campaign piss all this potential away.

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!




https://twitter.com/gshowitt/status/1252505926042628097

Going by this we have a perfect F&F candidate in the future.
The fact it's apparently a D1000 system is just such a mindfuck. :psyduck:

Hostile V
May 31, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

Boy am I not surprised considering the source material.

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!


That play-by-play is very confusing and also was there ever a good use for a d1000?

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
poo poo, I need to hurry up and finish my Albion LP so I can get in on this after I do Lancer and get sued by Fivemarks for sassing his homebrew.

Fivemarks
Feb 21, 2015

PurpleXVI posted:

poo poo, I need to hurry up and finish my Albion LP so I can get in on this after I do Lancer and get sued by Fivemarks for sassing his homebrew.

Jokes on you rear end in a top hat, I'm too poor to sue anyone!

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e: Thousand Thrones

Calculate your traveling expenses and bathe in DEEP LORES

So why were our heroes in Talabheim anyway? Well, the day after the insane play, Karl got kidnapped again. That's just how he does; little guy's like Princess Peach. Except this time he wasn't kidnapped at all. This time he was off to Taalagad with the permission of Father Helmut and with a hitherto mostly unmentioned Priest of Morr named Friedrich. Karl is still trying to get to Kislev, and he had a dream telling him he needed to learn something from a Kislevite seer in Taalagad. Helmut assured him he could keep the band together while he took care of the sidequest, but he gets nervous and asks our heroes to catch up with Friedrich (who is carrying Karl in a coffin, again, for some reason. They even mention Karl kind of likes it by now, if only to get away from the crowds). He pays them 10 crowns each and sends them out on an adventure in finding exact travel arrangements, because I'm just gonna level with you: This is written by Jude 'Calculate the Trade Matrices' Hornburg. If you recognize his work from WHFRP Companion, dude is just super excited about subsystems, matrices, and exact travel times. He is also a tremendously dull author to read. Like his prose is just plain flavorless. This chapter is genuinely a struggle just on that level.

It also isn't helped by being A: Entirely a red herring that doesn't matter at all to the plot of the adventure despite taking the heroes all the way into Sylvania on their way out of the way and B: Full of 'deep lore' about Nagash and magic power words that don't end up mattering at all because they're pathetically weak in gameplay terms AND you get sidebars talking about how you can just decide they don't work depending on how much of the bullshit lore you decide is true or not. Death Do Us Part is so disconnected from the plot that it even has a sidebar saying 'if the heroes decide they're sick of this or don't follow up, just deduct any travel expenses (make sure you calculate them!) and then move on top chapter 8'. Actually, both Chapter 7 and Chapter 8 can effectively be skipped at certain points. Tempting as that is (7 is insanely boring and 8 is close to 5 in how bad it is), I'm here to write this poo poo up and talk about why it's good or bad, not just to write fanfiction to keep myself entertained. So our heroes agreed, made their way to Taalagad, and then got waylaid by plague and nazis as the book suggests you might.

Before we get to that, we've got to get into the Deep Lore. The funny thing about the huge pile of exposition this starts with is how completely irrelevant most of it is to the players, and how unlikely they are to learn much of it. Much of it also doesn't square with what I know from other sources, but talks like the reader should already be very familiar with it; it's probably referencing Black Library novels I didn't read because I never read many of those? For one, it seems to be under the impression that 'most scholars agree Nagash attained Godhood'. I don't think I've ever seen him placed in the Pantheon of the Old World in any way. Nagash isn't a God. He's an insanely powerful rear end in a top hat necromancer. It talks about a prophecy based around Nagash having had a mortal wife during his first exile, and thus blood descendants, who may be of immense interest to vampires and necromancers. That bit is fine; vampires being after blood relations of the Great Necromancer is a fine macguffin. The fluff claims that ancient scrolls link Nagash's power to the five bloodlines of vampires, cursed by the Old Gods of the Nehekharans. Again, this is incorrect from what I know; the Bloodlines created themselves after Nefereta jacked some of Nagash's stuff from the bonfire and (possibly with urging/help from W'Soran) made her bootleg Elixir of Life. The curses came when the vampires abandoned Nagash during his second defeat and he decided to leave them with presents like 'The Sun Fucks You Now, You Traitorous Bastards'. It also claims Sigmar put on Nagash's crown before fighting Nagash and resisted its attempts to possess him, but that 'maybe' it taught him how to become a God like Nagash, which is just weird. As far as I know the story, Siggy just got attacked by Nagash and his minions because they thought the northern barbarians would be an easy first target and they could get the juice they needed to go waste the Tomb Kings, only to find Siggy wasn't a pushover and neither was his new Empire.

The thing is, none of this matters at all. It takes up several pages of the book, but it's basically irrelevant to the plot of both this adventure from the perspective of the characters (aside from the fact that the second kid Macguffin is a potential Scion of Nagash) and to the wider campaign. Remember the Thousand Thrones prophecy is nonsense a magic witch is tricking the vampires with. So specifically for this campaign, any of this nonsense above is the vampires just misinterpreting something partly because an evil hell-witch is trying to use it to trick them. Our heroes will be getting a tip-off that little Karl has fled into Sylvania, they'll follow after on an exciting adventure about coaching fees, and this is all to divert them from Kislev and make sure they arrive late and have to race against a strict time limit in the final dungeon. Literally nothing in this chapter is relevant in any way and the entire chapter is a red herring. How do they get the wrong boy? Remember the Strigany kid Ahmed? They mistake his kidnapping trail for Karl. A Von Carstein lady has arranged for Ahmed to be captured so she can eat his soul after marrying him and hopefully allow herself to become the Champion of Night who sits the Thousand Thrones and has no vampiric weaknesses because the 'curse of the Old Gods is undone'. The ritual absolutely cannot work if you're playing this version as part of this campaign, because she's just plain wrong, so there really aren't many stakes besides stopping a teenager from being forced to marry a vampire and then eaten. There's a bunch of nonsense about discovering the Power Words and coded scrolls and BS like that but I'm gonna level with ya: The Power Words do stuff like 'inflict a Damage 2 hit on a vampiric foe, which requires you testing Fel vs. their WP+10 per Mag they have to hit'. The Power Words are absolutely nonsense useless and not worthy of being an important part of an adventure; the only useful one is the one that can cancel a Blood Kiss if it's cast within a minute of it. I bet Queen Khalida wishes she'd had that, though she's probably perfectly happy being filled with high octane crazy sacred asp venom instead of blood while she sails across the ages shooting vampires and being super pissed off at Cousin Neffy.

God, Tomb Kings are cool. If we were going to go all 'it's time for Deep Nehekaran Lore' why couldn't this adventure have had some mummies in it instead?

Anyway, that's the setup. Our heroes will be chasing wholly irrelevant nonsense for far too long, solely to waste their time so that Chapter 8 and 9 are on a time limit. Oh, also, remember all the characters in the Crusade like Johannes and Helmut and Nils? They all just die instantly while the players are off doing this because without Karl around the mob breaks up and rips the inner circle to shreds. So all that stuff about Crusade Politics and factions and stuff you did for 6 chapters? None of it means poo poo, they all die off screen like a week after the heroes leave. Awesome!

Our heroes get paid and head for Taalagad to catch up with Karl. They join a coaching company who charges 7 GC a day, though their first trip to Taalagad is already paid for by Helmut. The story assures us that as long as they keep a careful, stamped ledger they are assured of repayment of all travel expenses. It loving loves travel expenses. However, remember that Helmut and everyone else are all going to be extremely dead. The ledger they're told to keep is meaningless because of how Chapter 8 starts. Ha-HA! Moneysink. The PCs go to talk to Madame Yaga in Taalagad, the seer Karl supposedly went to, and she doesn't tell them anything, just asks about their own fortunes. She tells the players some vague hints about the upcoming adventure (Stuff like 'acquaint yourself with the bridge before the wedding') and then has a 'true vision' of a boy in peril, taken by the 'coal faced men'. This is Ahmed, who has been jacked by Nagash worshiping Arabian assassins unbeknownst to anyone. At this point, rat ninjas burst through the windows for our heroes, and they're whisked away to a much better adventure. By the time they're done, they decide they should probably get on rescuing the kid who got jacked by assassins since it's probably Karl. I mean, it's gotta be. Kid gets kidnapped every week, and if it has to do with vampires, it's doubly likely it's him. Then they have some DaVinci Code nonsense with finding Brother Friedrich the priest murdered in ways that show all kinds of blood and religious poses in the local temple of Morr, with lots of references to the Deep Lore above in the blood patterns and his dying pose. This doesn't really mean much, or even matter that much, so while Rose decodes the hard symbology tests (she's good at it! Also that is not an academic discipline) for fun, they get to chasing cultists. Again. Why can't they ever arrive somewhere on time for once?

Oh right. Waylaid by rat nazis.

Next Time: Travel Arrangements

Aethyron
Dec 12, 2013
Hunter: the Reckoning - Player's Guide

Part Seven: Normal People Dab!


This next section is titled 'Normal People in an Abnormal Situation' so I hope you're ready to be lectured about soldiers again.

No, I'm serious, two paragraphs in and we get the book telling us that while yes, technically, a "Special Forces Commando or a Navy SEAL is also a real person with real emotions" who would probably be scared and horrorstruck by being confronted with walking corpses or whatever, we still shouldn't play one because we'd do it wrong- you know, like an action movie character. So, way to give your player base credit there, Hunter. Actually, I'm going to screenshot the rest of this paragraph because it's making me kind of angry:


so, uh, gently caress off?

Apparently, we often can't, so conditioned are we by comics, "adventure novels" and Hollywood movies to see heroes as above average- even so-called everyday heroes manage to "handle situations more handily than reason would predict" which is a sentence that makes me angry on a number of levels. That's how concepts like 'University Student' become 'University Student with Fencing Training and 5 Appearance', and even "the guy peddling Raisinets is still able to react instantly when a gun goes off." That all may be fine for an action movie, the book sneers says, but it's wrong for Hunter because they're exciting and Hunter is about horror, not action. Such themes, we are told, require "more grounded characters who can generate empathy".

All of this poo poo would be a lot less galling if the book wasn't simultaneously insisting you play a "normal person" while also describing normal people with contempt (remember all that poo poo about masses and herds from earlier in the book?). Not to mention the contempt it seems to have for the players. For example:

(I'd screenshot this next bit too, but it's cut in half by a page break so instead)

quote:

Many players attempt to use gaming as a means of feeling powerful, as an escape from the powerlessness that we often feel in everyday life. These people rebel against portraying real emotions or desires in their characters, because showing emotion or revealing desire places your character in a vulnerable position. Others players, particularly ones whose out-of-gaming lives include a heavy interest in the supernatural or the fantastic, have difficulty trying to accurately grasp the way that someone without such interests would see the world. Indeed, imagining the view through someone else's eyes is a difficult exercise.
so gently caress me for liking horror movies and wanting my gaming to be interesting, I guess

So, how do we create a normal person? This is a game about hunting monsters after all, so normal is actually more about 'is this a person that could actually exist before they started doing that'.

quote:

A soldier back from a peacekeeping mission is definitely a real person, but he doesn't fit the model of a "normal" person as far as Hunter is concerned. Meanwhile, there are probably fewer subsistence-level attorneys than soldiers, even in developed countries like the United States. But a round-heeled lawyer is perfectly suited to the concept of a hunter. A big-shot attorney might not be, depending on how he is played.
Normal, in Hunter, often means "ignorant and plain." The aforementioned megabucks attorney is just as clueless -- and would be as scared witless -- as any of us, but he's not plan, he's glamorous. He's not part of the society that Hunter focuses on. Conversely, the soldier is definitely blue collar, but he defies the mood of the game by possessing the kind of knowledge and training to counter the feelings of confusion, fear and, yes, even incompetence that all hunters possess to some degree. "Normal" is therefore defined in the negative, in the sense of "not extraordinary"

Like, I don't even know where to loving begin to interrogate any of this poo poo.

Moving on, there's actually a sidebar that does acknowledge that soldiers are real people with emotions who aren't going to be ready to face monsters, and yes it's certainly still possible to do horror with them, but if you want to play a soldier you must resist the temptation to play them as "cold, steel-nerved warriors, rather than having them react to the monsters as they most logically would: pissing their pants and panicking." So if you want to play a soldier or a fancy lawyer, you better do your research. Hilariously, the book actually suggests phoning up a legal office or a military base to ask questions- but make sure you're clear you're researching for a role although maybe be vague about what the role is for (absolutely do not do this). Make sure to ask about the stresses and psychological framework such people would face. Do a lot of other research. Next, spend twice as long making your character as you normally would so that you can really get into the different mindset and make them real. List everything, and go into detail. Ask why each event of your soldier's life happened, and how it changed them. Even list your characters favourite type of ice cream? What the gently caress are you talking about, book?.

Lastly, we are urged to check with your Storyteller before you even start character creation to make sure they're cool with your concept which is just... like, is that not something that everyone does anyway, no matter what they're concept is? Do people actually not communicate during pre-game setup at all?

Anyway, this is where we come it it. The Sentence. The line in this book that really made me want to review it because it was just so mind-boggling. It's talking about how the downside of trying to make a normal person is that it's harder to come up with ideas, and how it's a pain because:

"Not many movies out there are about clueless, scared, ordinary people fighting monsters."

When I was flipping through this book earlier this month, I stumbled on this and just. Stopped. Not many movies out there are about clueless, scared, ordinary people fighting monsters? Not many movies out there are about clueless, scared, ordinary people fighting monsters. As I'm reading this, I'm sitting almost within arms reach of a DVD copy of Alien, one of my favourite movies of all time- or, am I?

Horror movies exist, right? Did someone actually manage to get hired to write World of Darkness books without knowing about that? Did I dream them? Is this book trying to trick me? Is their conception of a 'normal, frightened person confronting monsters' so insanely narrow that it excludes Ripley? Ben from Night of the Living Dead? Laurie Strode? Is Jonathan Harker too much of an Action Hero for Hunter? Now the book is suggesting I watch something like American Beauty or Roseanne. Am I in an alternate reality, here? What is even happening?


also, wow the cite of American Beauty has not aged well here

This idea is hauntingly incorrect. Taking a very mundane character from a non-genre show for inspiration maybe isn't terrible, but the idea that it's hard to find examples that fit with the ostensible theme of "normal people vs monsters" for what they repeatedly tell us is a Horror game is honestly incomprehensible to me. Also, I just remembered that this book didn't have a suggested fiction bit in the introduction and now I'm wondering if it's possible that's because the author literally doesn't think any exists. loving how, though?

But rather than turn to fiction for inspiration, the book has a different idea: "Put down the remote. Walk out the door." Go to a bar or a mall or wherever and, uh, stalk people. I mean, observe them. Take notes on things, like their physical appearance, how they move, their clothing, vocal characteristics and quirks. Personally I really suggest that you not do this ever, but the Player's Guide wants you to.

Now the book is going to talk about how to take this Very Real Person But NO SOLDIERS! you've made and make them into a Hunter. Firstly, it's about doing the prelude right, which is actually fair enough given that the Imbuing is an incredibly life-changing event. Work hard on it so that you end up with a well-drawn character instead of focusing on things like their Creed- it's much more important to know that your character loves [American Sports Team], [American Beer Brand], and stir-fry. Here I thought character was established through action, but what the gently caress do I know I guess?

Naturally, Edges are a problem for this book. They're not normal, after all! They might let your character, um, do something. Make sure you don't let your Edges make you feel powerful or anything that would compromise how scared and incompetent your character is. After all "if you grabbed a baseball bat and proceeded to bash in a zombie's head in a way you never knew you could, what would you do? Hit it again, and spew four-letter-words like a televised wrestler? No. You'd probably drop the bat and scream, wondering what the hell did that." Those are the two options, evidently. So make sure you make your Edges understated. Maybe take triggers to restrict them further.

Now, as promised: the section that talks about maintaining your character/maintaining your enthusiasm for your character. The book tells us that we can turn for help to roleplaying's close cousin: acting. Specifically, method acting.

(side note: it's mind-boggling to me how often I encounter RPGs that seem to think that running in a campaign is like writing a book and playing in one is like being an actor on a tv show- they're not. Like, really not. It's a terrible comparison. I will die on this hill.)

We get a brief description of method acting before the book moves on to some method acting exercises we are encouraged to try, such as 'the Leban movements'. Try running through them before a game, especially if your Storyteller helps out. Make everyone do it, so it feels less silly (it will not help). The Leban movements, apparently, are a section of eight motions that represent a cross-section of emotions. Each one is either strong or weak; sudden, sustained or traveling.

Before a game, get everyone to stand up somewhere with room to move. Get your Storyteller to call out motions by name so that you can act them out, and try to attach the appropriate emotion to them so you can feel it.

The movement are:
-The Punch: A punch. Strong and sudden. Represents anger.
-The Slash: Slash your arm through the air. Also strong and sudden. Aggression, and being out of control.
-The Flick: A quick toss of the hand, arm, leg, or head. Weak but sudden. Dismissal, surprise and resignation.
-The Dab: "Bring your hand up, keeping your wrist limp, and thrust your fingers forward with your wrist." That's not what a dab looks like, book. Weak and sudden. Nitpicking, pedantic, naggy, condescending, disgust, weak defiance (is it just me or that the whole tone of the writing in this section btw?)
-The Press: Bring hands or knee to your chest and slowly push them away. Strong and sustained. Determination/seething anger/grace under pressure.
-The Wring: Pretend your wringing out a towel or whatever. Weak and sustained. Angst, worry, fear, nervousness.
-The Glide: Walk across the room taking long steps. Strong and traveling. Arrogance, composure, elegance, control.
-The Float: "Lean back a little and take quick, tripping steps across the room, bouncing a little." Weak and traveling. Ecstasy, dreaminess, and joy (and also cartoon characters trying to be stealthy if I'm reading it right)

Seriously, this book actually suggests you get your group to stand up and do this before you game. It's amazing, and if anyone's actually done this I urgently want you to tell me what the it was like.

A couple of other exciting method-acting exercises show up, like 'Emotional Footnoting' which is apparently when you write little notes in the margins of a script as to the emotions a character would feel but oops, wait, RPGs don't have scripts so maybe come up with some random situations you think might come up and write 'em down along with the emotions they'd elicit. The idea of an in-character diary is brought up again here, and there's a sidebar reminding you to have a safe word if you're doing any of this.

Why do any of this? Because Hunter, "probably more so than any other game set in the World of Darkness", demands an understanding of your characters emotions and motivations- and that they be believable and real. Hunter requires you to be true to your characters emotions. It is mandatory. "This isn't a game in which you weigh personal risks and gains clinically". Really? Not even Judges? Visionaries? Nobody? Diaries might be time consuming, and the Leban movements might make you feel silly, but it's all worth it for that REAL EMOTION.

Counterargument: Wasting everyone's limited gaming time each week with a bunch of method-acting exercises is a terrible idea for a number of reasons, and this section's emotional focus is so incredibly narrow that's it is basically worthless for a game where a wide range of reactions to the crisis-situation of the Imbuing is fundamental to the entirety of Hunter: what about blind rage or intense curiosity, or childlike wonder in the face of the supernatural or maybe even loving compassion? The gameline that previously suggested that you assign Creeds based on how your players roleplay their reaction to the Imbuing is now telling you that there's only one right way to do that. No nuance, no variety. Just a single prescribed set of reactions that they don't even really bother to sell you on actually being interesting to play.

And, I don't know if this is just based on my take for Hunter, but it seems to me that so much of this advice is wrong for the game as already presented. Like, Hunters are exceptional- maybe not initially, but the Imbuing is a test that it's possible to fail. None of this advice takes into account the fact that every single Hunter became a Hunter because in that moment of extreme horror and fear, they acted. The moment might have been terrifying, and the aftermath full of confusion and horror, but the simple fact remains that faced with perhaps the most horrific revelation of their life, a Hunter acts. Nothing in this book's advice reflects that. It almost seems to be hostile to the idea. If this advice works for anything, it would be Bystanders. The idea that your characters- the protagonists of the story- might be able to step up in a crisis in some way, which they would have had to do in order to become Hunters at all, is dismissed as action-movie wish fulfillment.

I'm not blind to the idea that maybe a player won't be invested in their character and just show up with a personality-less combat monster, but this chapter seems like a staggering overreaction to that hypothetical- one that refuses to engage with the idea you could find a middle ground where that person could be happy with the game and the chronicle about hunting monsters could involve actual monster-hunting.

Instead, it presents its weird, idiosyncratic, definition of a "normal person"- who it seems to hate on some level- and repeatedly sneers at the idea of playing the game even a little bit differently. It's baffling.

Hunter: the Reckoning had one of, if not the most compelling hooks I've ever encountered in an RPG: What if one day, out of nowhere, you could suddenly see the monsters that prey on humanity from the shadows. Every single thing you thought you understood about the world is shattered in an instant in the face of a Vampire trying to drag someone into an alley before your eyes as you were walking home from the bus station. What do you do?

That's the question presented by the Hunter corebook. This is the kind of advice we get on how to answer it: REAL EMOTION, helplessness, a condescending and weirdly classist view of humanity, being weirdly chill with the idea of playing nazis, and dabbing. Synchronized dabbing.

What the hell happened?

Coming up: the rest of this chapter is actually a bit better

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

White Wolf wailing about power fantasy is always one of the funniest things in the world.

Especially because how much is the soldier's training really going to even the odds? Especially when most of their enemies are near immune to bullets. Being the one PC in the team who can work a Tommy Gun in Call of Cthulhu doesn't suddenly turn Call of Cthulhu into a pulp action adventure. The soldier is a real person, but the authors don't really regard them as one, because it doesn't fit directly into their little box of 'real person' who all coincidentally have the stat points, skill points, etc necessary to play the game regardless of their profession.

Plus, why does the University Student having App 5 pose a problem? Someone who is modeling to get through college and runs into Vampire Bullshit because a Toreador takes an interest in them and goes Hunter is a perfectly reasonable character concept, and it's not like App 5 is a stat that's going to do you a huge amount of good. Why is it odd for the student to know how to fence? People have hobbies, and swordfighting isn't going to stop that Toreador easily when they're stronger and faster than you and you struggle to actually get hold of a sword that can be used as a weapon anyway.

This is basically all utter nonsense. Any abilities, concept, etc can be fun and can be a 'real person'. Real people are crazy diverse and God knows how someone is going to react in a genuine crisis for their life until they hit it. We have no idea what the psychological stresses of having to fight dracula would be, because nobody has to fight dracula. They should be whatever is narratively interesting for your group.

And gently caress it, if you want to play action heroes shotgunning vampires, do it. Ain't no fun police. You should probably use a different system since Storyteller's combat engine is terrible and Hunter isn't balanced around it, but go ahead. Putting a bullet in the face of the World of Darkness is a good time.

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!


WHAT? I CANNOT HEAR YOU UP HERE ON MT.BADWRONGFUN!
NO THAT'S FINE DON'T CALL ME I'LL CALL YOU!

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer

Night10194 posted:

White Wolf

This is basically all utter nonsense.

You're repeating yourself.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Honestly I think the Aberrant "YOU ARE NOT THE AVENGERS" is peak WW fun police. Even as they explicitly have a team in the setting that wears uniforms and fights big villains and saves people from giant disasters.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Dawgstar posted:

Honestly I think the Aberrant "YOU ARE NOT THE AVENGERS" is peak WW fun police. Even as they explicitly have a team in the setting that wears uniforms and fights big villains and saves people from giant disasters.

Well, of course you're not the Avengers! That's all left to NPCs, like everything else in Aberrant.

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!




I'm always sorta weirded out by the "Soldiers aren't even humans!" angle that some game, not including WoD, seems to have. I would say its a very liberal stance but I'm most definitely wrong about that position.

Not to mention the general take of "If given the chance the player will automatically play a Rambo" which is frankly bullshit and just a thinly veiled sneer at "the dumb jocks" or "the murderhobo D&D player" that totally shouldn't be playing this game full of RAW and REAL EMOTION.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.
This is just the Tom Clancy version of "real = shitfarming peasants" we've had to wade through in the Warhammer Fantasy stuff, isn't it?

I wonder if the writers are so scared of powerful player characters because of bad experiences in playtest, knowledge of their own playerbase, or fear that somewhere a GM might have mere mortals bring down the all-powerful masters of the night they love so much?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

The irony also being 'Rambo, but from First Blood' would actually be a pitch perfect Hunter PC.

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!


What sort of brain damage makes write this gatekeeping dreck rather than just put down a character point allotment for Average, Heroic and Supernatural characters?
It would take less time than coming up with inconsistent arguments against fun and the customers will do it anyway.

Fivemarks
Feb 21, 2015

By popular demand posted:

What sort of brain damage makes write this gatekeeping dreck rather than just put down a character point allotment for Average, Heroic and Supernatural characters?
It would take less time than coming up with inconsistent arguments against fun and the customers will do it anyway.

The same kind of brain damage that thinks working with Zak S, or that using real life anti-LGBT pogroms in Georgia as a plot point are good ideas.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Loxbourne posted:

This is just the Tom Clancy version of "real = shitfarming peasants" we've had to wade through in the Warhammer Fantasy stuff, isn't it?

I wonder if the writers are so scared of powerful player characters because of bad experiences in playtest, knowledge of their own playerbase, or fear that somewhere a GM might have mere mortals bring down the all-powerful masters of the night they love so much?

The weird thing is that even as I usually play and run games that accomplish more and are about the transition out of being shitfarmers, I find the shitfarmer stuff is really important to my enjoyment of the setting. The idea that the ordinary matters, that there's a home to come back to, and that heroes still have to worry about similar things to yon peasant has its own appeal. I like being able to point at a cool secret agent and say they got their start improvising wildly as a scullery boy (even if that part doesn't show up in gameplay because we started at 2nd tier or something).

Just I also really like getting up to where the Thousand Crowns are now, because 'I came from ordinary roots, nothing about who I am was destined or chosen, and now I am a goddamn badass' is fun as hell. I like the option to start low in games because I like meaningful progression, and for it to be implied even if it wasn't done in gameplay. It makes all the ordinary extras and folks you deal with have more weight.

Of course I also really like just straight playing a superhero in Double Cross or Feng Shui so you know. Room for more than one kind of game in the world, or even in the same game. Plus for me the entire appeal of Shitfarmer gaming is eventually getting out of the shitfarm and achieving something, anyway. I like powerful PCs! Both in GMing for them and in playing them.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Honestly with Hunter I used to be more torn, but now I don't care. For starters don't have an adversarial relationship with your players so know going in that one guy wants to play an Avenger SWAT team member and design stuff around that. It's fine.
Even if you still have a problem with that, and you shouldn't, playing a min-maxed combat Imbued is kind of a fool's errand given what they can face so let them put four dots in Firearms. Let them know there might be consequences for carrying around a .50 sniper rifle in their Corolla. It's fine. Just run the game.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer

Loxbourne posted:

This is just the Tom Clancy version of "real = shitfarming peasants" we've had to wade through in the Warhammer Fantasy stuff, isn't it?

I wonder if the writers are so scared of powerful player characters because of bad experiences in playtest, knowledge of their own playerbase, or fear that somewhere a GM might have mere mortals bring down the all-powerful masters of the night they love so much?

It's a combination of sneering 'this isn't D&D' and being under the misapprehension that the stories being told are theirs.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Hell, say you want to do the whole 'you can't just kill your way out of everything'. A special forces PC who is struggling to adjust to being back in civilian life and who defaults to their training/experience and resorts to force immediately on encountering monsters, who have massive systemic power well outside their superhuman abilities and strength (which are already a problem for John Rambo But The lovely Sheriff Is a Vampire) is going to make a ton of extremely interesting trouble for themselves that makes for a great horror story! And meanwhile other Hunter cells are going to want to recruit them despite their issues because hell, recruiting dissatisfied ex-military is an important part of any resistance movement.

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!




Night10194 posted:

The irony also being 'Rambo, but from First Blood' would actually be a pitch perfect Hunter PC.

It most likely would be but it feels like the writers only remember him Rambo 3 like everybody else does.

Tibalt
May 14, 2017

What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee

Turns out the venn diagram of "ways of solving a problem that don't bring unwanted attention" and "ways of solving a problem that involve a QCB carbine" are two barely touching circles.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Night10194 posted:

Hell, say you want to do the whole 'you can't just kill your way out of everything'. A special forces PC who is struggling to adjust to being back in civilian life and who defaults to their training/experience and resorts to force immediately on encountering monsters, who have massive systemic power well outside their superhuman abilities and strength (which are already a problem for John Rambo But The lovely Sheriff Is a Vampire) is going to make a ton of extremely interesting trouble for themselves that makes for a great horror story! And meanwhile other Hunter cells are going to want to recruit them despite their issues because hell, recruiting dissatisfied ex-military is an important part of any resistance movement.

This is why I found Reckoning to be such a fun game when I and my group pulled it apart and examined what you could do, what it could mean, etc. (This by no means makes it a good game. I'm absolutely not trying the 'it worked for us' defense.)

Aethyron
Dec 12, 2013
It's a lot of ridiculously, aggressively bad advice that is completely at odds with Hunter as presented by the art, mechanics and even the in-character fiction. Large swathes of the Hunter line like the Creed and Enemy books are mostly fiction, and the people who were writing them pretty obviously understood that the interesting part about Hunter is exploring how Hunters actually hunt, and the way that Hunters of different Creeds and ideologies interact with each other in the emerging Hunter community.

Plus, one of the signature characters is a soldier- his hunter-net handle is literally soldier91 or something like that. And there are a lot of other characters who describe their imbuing as a moment of monster-killing rage, and now are all about loading up on weapons and trying to kill vampires. So they're definitely not following their own advice here.

I do think that starting with a relatively grounded character is an important part of Hunter, but the way they want you to go about it is just so poorly conceived.

Also, it is super easy to come up with dozens of interesting stories for a soldier character in this game that don't involve them being action heroes. Like, can you imagine being someone who joined the army to serve their country and spent the last however many years fighting for that ideal only now to come home and be confronted with Vampires running everything. Feels like there might be some rich roleplaying opportunities there- or you're a kid who joined the army out of highschool and haven't ever actually deployed yet, but now you're dealing with rampaging werewolves and poo poo and people are looking to you like you can protect them even though you've never been in combat in your life.

Fundamentally, there's no way for an RPG to force players to Play Right by nagging them away from Wrong Fun ideas- the best you can do is try to sell people on why your concepts are cool and good but that is just not at all the approach here and it's mind-boggling. Personally, I think that Hunter: the Reckoning should be incredibly easy to sell! Like, even if people did want to explore higher-powered Special Forces vs Dracula type stuff, I would still run the hell out of that game, but I don't think it's difficult to pitch something closer to what they seem to want, but they... don't, really.

Also I am still just beyond confused at the suggestion that it's difficult to find movies that show scared and confused normal people encountering monsters.

(also also I continue to be sad for the WFRP party, who really do deserve better than all of this because they're so much more fun)

Aethyron
Dec 12, 2013

Night10194 posted:

Hell, say you want to do the whole 'you can't just kill your way out of everything'. A special forces PC who is struggling to adjust to being back in civilian life and who defaults to their training/experience and resorts to force immediately on encountering monsters, who have massive systemic power well outside their superhuman abilities and strength (which are already a problem for John Rambo But The lovely Sheriff Is a Vampire) is going to make a ton of extremely interesting trouble for themselves that makes for a great horror story! And meanwhile other Hunter cells are going to want to recruit them despite their issues because hell, recruiting dissatisfied ex-military is an important part of any resistance movement.

Or this, right here. Perfect example.

Dawgstar posted:

This is why I found Reckoning to be such a fun game when I and my group pulled it apart and examined what you could do, what it could mean, etc. (This by no means makes it a good game. I'm absolutely not trying the 'it worked for us' defense.)

I am right there with you. I love this game so much and it's largely in spite of itself.

(sorry for the double post)

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I also really like the idea of a recruit who's never deployed or a national guardsman who all the other Hunters treat like they've got to be a super badass since they're A SOLDIER, that would be a great protagonist.

One of the other things it all reminds me of is that Hunter doesn't really have solid rules for being afraid or overawed. I think back to Albedo, and how Awe was handled as a simple, unavoidable thing that happens as part of combat and is part of trying to force peoples' heads down or drive them off objectives. How much 'my character is going to take traumatic stress because all this poo poo is terrifying and managing it while trying to look calm enough to keep the soldiers under me sticking to the plan so we don't die' helps put you in your character's head in combat. Mechanics for that kind of thing don't have to be super complex, but having mechanics for it can really help with playing it.

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Big Mad Drongo
Nov 10, 2006

Night10194 posted:

The weird thing is that even as I usually play and run games that accomplish more and are about the transition out of being shitfarmers, I find the shitfarmer stuff is really important to my enjoyment of the setting. The idea that the ordinary matters, that there's a home to come back to, and that heroes still have to worry about similar things to yon peasant has its own appeal. I like being able to point at a cool secret agent and say they got their start improvising wildly as a scullery boy (even if that part doesn't show up in gameplay because we started at 2nd tier or something).

Just I also really like getting up to where the Thousand Crowns are now, because 'I came from ordinary roots, nothing about who I am was destined or chosen, and now I am a goddamn badass' is fun as hell. I like the option to start low in games because I like meaningful progression, and for it to be implied even if it wasn't done in gameplay. It makes all the ordinary extras and folks you deal with have more weight.

Of course I also really like just straight playing a superhero in Double Cross or Feng Shui so you know. Room for more than one kind of game in the world, or even in the same game. Plus for me the entire appeal of Shitfarmer gaming is eventually getting out of the shitfarm and achieving something, anyway. I like powerful PCs! Both in GMing for them and in playing them.

I think the key here is that Hams has a very clear progression system that guides you from scullery boy to superspy embedded within the mechanics themselves.The class switching/tiering mechanic is a brilliant. All the player has to do is come up with the why and how.

Other shitfarmer games don't have that progression, if they even offer any sense of progression at all.

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