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Highly likely, since it may never leave your possession, they'll just send a replacement.
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Mar 24, 2020 20:01
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disaster pastor posted:I've had a G Pro Wireless for ~5 months that's started to miss clicks or double-click the middle button. Scrolling is fine. Am I likely to be able to get that replaced under warranty, and how likely am I to see it again if they replace it? Likely to both.
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Mar 25, 2020 01:07
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disaster pastor posted:I've had a G Pro Wireless for ~5 months that's started to miss clicks or double-click the middle button. Scrolling is fine. Am I likely to be able to get that replaced under warranty, and how likely am I to see it again if they replace it? I'm not even sure if I want to go through with the RMA process because they'll want me to send my current mouse back. Also not sure if I want to open it up and do work on it myself when I could just RMA it. If it were out of warranty I'd have no problem with opening it up. Besides being way too small and not wireless, I had a much better experience with the g203. It has been going strong for well over a year. G703's LoD is too low and not adjustable while the G203's LoD is perfect. G703 is giving me flashbacks to the g5 & g100s which were "rma 6+ times in 1 year" territory mice to the point I gave the rmad g5 away as a gift because its sensor was significantly worse than the 518's anyway. Compared to mx510 which worked until the cable literally broke and the mx518 which is still working 15 years later. Khorne fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Mar 25, 2020 |
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Mar 25, 2020 03:01
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I feel like it's time to repost a link to this video. I'll say once again that I'm not an EE, but his claims about the source of the problems, especially the point about reduced voltages in modern mice being below what's necessary to run cheap switches effectively seem extremely likely to be true.
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Mar 25, 2020 03:14
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K8.0 posted:I feel like it's time to repost a link to this video. I'll say once again that I'm not an EE, but his claims about the source of the problems, especially the point about reduced voltages in modern mice being below what's necessary to run cheap switches effectively seem extremely likely to be true. I did have an Asus mouse just outright die a few days after the warranty ended. That was a unique experience, because outside of the cord breaking on my mx510 after 5 years I've never had a mouse die. I don't believe his claims about polling rate because people have been using 1000Hz since at least 2001. And setting faulty mice to 125Hz doesn't provide a debounce effect at all. I can still get my g703 to click 3x on mouse up at 125Hz, for example. And testing with a few other mice that have clicking issues they exhibit the same behavior as well with no notable difference in clicks. He also didn't explicitly test that claim and just assumed switch state would be polled more frequently and register more up/down events. I could not reproduce that claim at all. Khorne fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Mar 25, 2020 |
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Mar 25, 2020 03:47
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And yet every Logitech mouse I have had has gone 3+ years before they developed click issues. 
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Mar 25, 2020 04:24
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Koskun posted:And yet every Logitech mouse I have had has gone 3+ years before they developed click issues. Logitech mice that have been awful: G5 first gen - Took 3 RMAs to get one that worked, but despite being newer and more expensive this was a downgrade from the mx518 so I gave it away. G100s - had somewhere between 5 and 8 with click issues within a year of purchasing the first one before I just gave up. Made me give up on logitech until the g203/g703. G703 - 1/1 bad practically out of the box, pretty awful track record for a $100 mouse Logitech mice that have been good: The original shape that would become the mx300/mx310 later mx510 - will outlast almost anything except for the cord mx518 - will outlast almost anything g203 - no hardware complaints after 1 year of heavy use, but lots of people are having double click issues with it It also probably depends how you click. On my g703 I can get it to double click pretty consistently if I hold down the button in the center or on the right side of the left mouse button. If I press it on the left side and hold it I can't get it to double click. If I press it harder than necessary to actuate it won't double click even if I back off slowly. I also tend to click more toward the right side of the lmb. Even when I press it at the center, the press is sort of 30 degrees down+right. The tip of my finger doesn't even make it to the end of the scroll in terms of where I'm pressing the key in the front to back direction. Meaning, if I gave this mouse to someone else there's a pretty good chance they wouldn't have click issues. Khorne fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Mar 25, 2020 |
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Mar 25, 2020 04:40
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Khorne posted:It also probably depends how you click. On my g703 I can get it to double click pretty consistently if I hold down the button in the center or on the right side of the left mouse button. If I press it on the left side and hold it I can't get it to double click. If I press it harder than necessary to actuate it won't double click even if I back off slowly. I also tend to click more toward the right side of the lmb. Even when I press it at the center, the press is sort of 30 degrees down+right. The tip of my finger doesn't even make it to the end of the scroll in terms of where I'm pressing the key in the front to back direction. You're absolutely right about this, every aspect of how you click a mouse can affect it's function. I've had multiple occasions where a mouse is consistently malfunctioning for one person, but another person will get normal behavior out of it. I've also found that the way you break a mouse in can affect it, and that sometimes a mouse that has begun behaving weirdly for me will stop if I do things like press the button in, wiggle it around, and slide my finger around on the button while maintaining force on it. Personally I've not seen increased failure rates on modern mice, but that's probably due to the particulars of how I use my mice. Also completely agree with you that the video is wrong about the 1000hz thing.
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Mar 25, 2020 05:26
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Khorne posted:Yeah, but which mice? Click issues are fine and even expected after actual wear and tear. Double/triple clicking on mouseup within a few days of purchasing and getting progressively worse in a month of ownership is unacceptably bad and only logitech has ever had that problem for me. I've owned around 18 mice, not counting RMAs which brings it up to over 30. Apologies for the snark. My current mouse is a G700. It did develop a right-click issue about a year in, but that ended up being dust/debris in the switch. Before that was the MX1000 I think it was called. The one with the half a wheel on the side. Before that was and MX something LAZER!!!. The Master (might have been 1000, I forget the naming setups they go with) did end up with right-click issues, well out of warranty, and Logitech just sent me the G700 as a replacement. The other ones I retired because they had those "non-replaceable" batteries, and would only hold a charge for a few hours at best at the end.
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Mar 25, 2020 17:44
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Had a G903 that developed bad clicks and double clicks. Logitech Warranty took care of me without having to send it in for them to send me a replacement. Also, I was out of warranty by a month or two.
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Mar 26, 2020 14:04
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I haven't really been keeping track of this segment at all for a long time, but what are the current consensus best large mice? I hurt my hand doing something else and right now fingertipping is kinda painful. I'm looking for something with a fat rear end that will help hold up the back of my hand.
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Mar 27, 2020 03:34
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K8.0 posted:I haven't really been keeping track of this segment at all for a long time, but what are the current consensus best large mice? I hurt my hand doing something else and right now fingertipping is kinda painful. I'm looking for something with a fat rear end that will help hold up the back of my hand. Lookit dat rear end:
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Mar 27, 2020 03:46
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I just bought a bunch of backup MS wheel mouse opticals. The Kinzus are just all over the place for me in terms of finding ones in decent shape with the right texture and I've had 1 fail already. Am I one of the only people left on this planet that prefers no side buttons and a relatively simple profile?
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Apr 1, 2020 21:52
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You, my friend, are of a dying breed. May as well get used to having forward/back in a web browser under your thumb. You also might as well get one of the new Intellimouse Nostalgia Edition mice. https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2018/06/26/a-legend-reborn-microsoft-brings-back-the-iconic-mouse-the-classic-intellimouse/ Or the even newer "Pro" edition, though what "pro" gets you is not my wheelhouse, I was always in the Logitech camp. But this should help: https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2019/05/28/announcing-the-microsoft-pro-intellimouse/ SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Apr 1, 2020 |
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Apr 1, 2020 22:03
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SwissArmyDruid posted:You, my friend, are of a dying breed. May as well get used to having forward/back in a web browser under your thumb. I think I still have the original of that and I stopped using it because it had too many buttons. Forward/back in browse has always been 100% unintentional whenever I had a mouse with those buttons. Right handed mouse I would always move too close to laptop/keyboard and bump my thumb into those buttons causing an unintentional navigation and losing some block of text I had just typed.
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Apr 1, 2020 22:09
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SwissArmyDruid posted:You, my friend, are of a dying breed. May as well get used to having forward/back in a web browser under your thumb.
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Apr 1, 2020 22:23
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I bought a whole bunch of these cheap old MS Wheel Mouse Opticals because they're the only mouse my hands like anymore. Took them all apart and cleaned out the 2 decades of human slime in a soap water bath with a toothbrush.  
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Apr 11, 2020 23:56
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Can anyone recommend a good ergonomic lefty mouse? A friend's left-handed Razer Deathadder broke and it seems like it's no longer being produced, and most mouse manufacturers seem to just focus on right handed and ambidextrous mice for obvious reasons.
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Apr 12, 2020 12:44
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Another MX518 with debounce issues on button release not six months from my last warranty service. edit: No, what the hell am I talking about. Logitech, loving knock it off with the goddamn Chinese omrons and go back to the Japanese ones, you fucks. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Apr 12, 2020 |
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Apr 12, 2020 19:45
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I bought a loving Viper Ultimate just to not have to deal with lovely switches. You know it's apocalyptic when a professional Razer hater is buying their products. That said, I'm pretty sure I've already experienced a few double-clicks from the scroll wheel, so shoutouts to Razer's perpetually high standards. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Apr 12, 2020 |
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Apr 12, 2020 20:31
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I'm actually starting to do research into drop-in switch alternatives that I can just solder in place. Japanese ones look like they're taller than the chinese ones because reasons which will necessitate modification of the body to shorten the plunger-pusher thingies, which means it's a one-way trip, and if you gently caress up, you're done. Conveniently, there appears to be a Kailh switch that's a 100% knockoff of the Omron switch that's allegedly better and requires no other modification other than desoldering and soldering new ones in place. Only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger without thinking is that I can either pay $3.50 per switch on Amazon, or $8 for a set of 6 on Aliexpress, but then I have to sign up for aliexpress. =T SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Apr 12, 2020 |
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Apr 12, 2020 21:09
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Aliexpress owns and you should use it, but also you might want to consider that it will probably take 2 loving months for anything you buy there to get here, and that's if coronavirus panic ends tomorrow.
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Apr 12, 2020 21:15
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I'm looking at late may for deliveries everywhere. I'm actually more annoyed that I can't get these switches off like, Digikey or Mouser or ArrowCal (Veri-Arrow?) or some poo poo. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Apr 12, 2020 |
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Apr 12, 2020 21:17
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I'm actually starting to do research into drop-in switch alternatives that I can just solder in place. Japanese ones look like they're taller than the chinese ones because reasons which will necessitate modification of the body to shorten the plunger-pusher thingies, which means it's a one-way trip, and if you gently caress up, you're done. I'm actually going to tackle this in the near future on my first G703, and I came to the conclusions you have. I think the Kailh reds are going to be the best choice overall (they get glowing reviews from everyone who's modded with them) but to give myself some options I bought some of two other micro-load switches that should be more appropriate than the D2FC-07s that are used in pretty much all consumer mice nowadays, the D2F-01F and D2F-01. They all happen to be the same height, by the way, including the Kailhs, and I don't yet know how much taller they are than the stock Chinese switches:  Really the only nuisance about this whole process to me is having to go through the glides to open up the mouse; soldering and disassembling the rest of the mouse isn't a big problem for me. I'd rather not remove the glides and then be unable to properly reattach them, so I'm thinking of drilling a hole through them, which would then make it easier to redo the process in the future (I just plan on replacing the faulty RMB at the moment, probably with the lower-force -01, and then if I have to do the LMB I'll go with the -01F which has double the actuation force.) I'll let you guys know how it goes; maybe I'll remember to take photos of the process!
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Apr 13, 2020 02:54
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Atomizer posted:I'm actually going to tackle this in the near future on my first G703, and I came to the conclusions you have. I think the Kailh reds are going to be the best choice overall (they get glowing reviews from everyone who's modded with them) but to give myself some options I bought some of two other micro-load switches that should be more appropriate than the D2FC-07s that are used in pretty much all consumer mice nowadays, the D2F-01F and D2F-01. They all happen to be the same height, by the way, including the Kailhs, and I don't yet know how much taller they are than the stock Chinese switches: Check your PMs, please.
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Apr 13, 2020 05:20
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Looking for a nice wireless mouse (my desk is cramped and wires bunch up) with reliable clickers, lightweight, with maybe 2 or 3 side buttons but no more than that, and a really good scroll wheel. Mostly productivity, some game-ing but not seriously competitive. Budget is under 100, no exceptions.
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Apr 15, 2020 14:57
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MX Anywhere is excellent if you don't mind a smaller mouse.
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Apr 15, 2020 20:52
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I think the Omron switches in my Kone Pure Ultra are a bit dicky. Often, I will hold them down, then they will unclick and reclick without me doing anything. Returning it to the vendor is not an option, so I've bought some kailh red switches to replace them with. I haven't soldered anything since I was 16, but a friend of mine was a telco technician for years and has offered to do it to make sure I don't break the AU$135 mouse. I'm just wondering if anyone has any tips on replacing switches for someone who's never had to do it, or maybe has specifically worked with this mouse?
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Apr 16, 2020 09:29
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Neurosis posted:I think the Omron switches in my Kone Pure Ultra are a bit dicky. Often, I will hold them down, then they will unclick and reclick without me doing anything. Returning it to the vendor is not an option, so I've bought some kailh red switches to replace them with. I haven't soldered anything since I was 16, but a friend of mine was a telco technician for years and has offered to do it to make sure I don't break the AU$135 mouse. I'm just wondering if anyone has any tips on replacing switches for someone who's never had to do it, or maybe has specifically worked with this mouse? Aw, man. I have a Kone Pure Ultra and I've noticed the same thing, but it happens very rarely and I thought I might just not be clicking hard enough. I'm not gonna mess around with soldering so I'll return it if it becomes an issue, but hopefully it won't. I really love this mouse otherwise, it's the perfect size and shape for me and I'm very particular about those things (I can't handle 12cm mice, they feel too big for my fingertip grip).
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Apr 16, 2020 12:07
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Elman posted:Aw, man. I have a Kone Pure Ultra and I've noticed the same thing, but it happens very rarely and I thought I might just not be clicking hard enough. Same deal with me - it's intermittent. I thought maybe it was how hard I was clicking too because it doesn't seem to happen when I concentrate on clicking hard. But if that's the case, that seems like suboptimal design too, since I don't want to have to adjust my clicking style when it's never been a problem with any mouse before. I emailed Roccat to ask and they thought it was a problem with the switches as well. I'm not sure how much to trust that, though - I've heard their after-market care is kind of garbage. At any rate, assuming I don't fry the PCB, I'll let you know how it goes once I replace the switches. The fact you got it as well does make me wonder if it really is just something peculiar with the design of the mouse rather than the switches. They use Omrons - overwhelmingly the most common switches. For both of us to get the same defect with a new mouse with a standard part like Omrons would be odd (unless there was one run of Omrons which were bad that were used in early KPUs). Neurosis fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Apr 16, 2020 |
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Apr 16, 2020 12:37
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Atomizer posted:I'm actually going to tackle this in the near future on my first G703, and I came to the conclusions you have. I think the Kailh reds are going to be the best choice overall (they get glowing reviews from everyone who's modded with them) but to give myself some options I bought some of two other micro-load switches that should be more appropriate than the D2FC-07s that are used in pretty much all consumer mice nowadays, the D2F-01F and D2F-01. They all happen to be the same height, by the way, including the Kailhs, and I don't yet know how much taller they are than the stock Chinese switches: Ok, it's done, and I almost wish I'd gotten the 'rona instead. I mean it wasn't that bad, but it was difficult enough where it was frustrating, and I don't want to have to do it very often; I'd originally only intended to replace the faulty RMB and then wait to do the LMB when that started to fail, but halfway through I decided to do both seeing how difficult disassembly/reassembly was going to be. I took some photos, but there already are some good, more complete resources so I'll only share a few with my thoughts. The full album is here, but I'll embed with comments:  I drilled through the glides to access the screws so I wouldn't have to either reattach them or replace them entirely; as mentioned, I'd intended to just replace one switch and do the other when needed, but changed plans when I realized it'd be difficult to have to do this multiple times. I don't regret going this route, but don't be a dumbass like me, make sure you know where the holes are before drilling!  Here's what it looks like after boring out the holes: I was able to unscrew all 4 screws and they ended up being held captive underneath the glides, which was a nice bonus as I usually lose some screws by the time I go to reassemble a device! After opening the mouse:  Not pictured, but note that the very front of the mouse has this piece down the center (ahead of the scroll wheel) that kind of hooks the top half over the bottom half, and was difficult to separate. Also there are additional clips along the sides around the mouse holding the halves together. This connector joins the upper & lower halves:  You have to lift that black piece in the red box straight up to open the connector to remove the ZIF cable. Now, the top pieces of the shell, removed:  A wave of dread washed over me when I realized the side & top switches all use Chinese Omrons:  I'm not looking forward to having to replace upwards of 5 switches in this mouse alone, should the eventuality arrive.  I was able to replace the main switches without fully disassembling the top half. Note that the side switches (the "back" one being mounted in reverse due to the button/switch positioning) and I believe the top DPI switch use different Omrons than the main switches: I most certainly did not get "50M" actuations out of these switches (specifically the RMB one); it started acting up within a year of purchase, with only a day or two of usage per week.  Of course this photo is out of focus, but in my defense I could've used an extra pair of hands throughout this whole process:  Note the original switch, still attached to the board, is the same height as the replacement ones. I don't know where this "the Japanese switches are taller" nonsense comes from. A shot of the switches from the top; the original has that blue piece, the replacement is beige:  Finally, the new switches in situ:  So again, this is not a thorough documentation of the whole process, as others have done that job already as linked above. (And also, a lot of other mice use Chinese Omrons and will need the above type of replacement work done anyway.) The desoldering was by far the most difficult part, as I didn't have enough hands to hold everything, and the solder didn't flow very well into the desoldering braid/wick (also, I forgot to use flux.  ) This was followed in difficulty by reassembly; there are a bunch of tiny screws, some in deep recesses that were extremely difficult to replace. The original disassembly was fairly straightforward by comparison, although again I only had to disassemble about 1/4-1/3 of the entire mouse as I did the soldering with the top half still attached. And the soldering, finally, was definitely the easiest part; I have experience with that and the only hiccup was that I used too much solder on the 2nd switch (the LMB) but that was fairly easy to rectify as the new solder flowed way more readily (I think it has a rosin core; it came in a ~$15 soldering iron kit, I've only used it twice, and I'm happy with the purchase.)One more thing of note: during the desoldering process in particular you definitely have to take care not to desolder those smaller connections between the board & ribbon cable. As planned, I used the D2F-01 for the LMB and the D2F-01F for the RMB; the difference is 1.5 N and 0.75 N of actuation force, respectively. Most mouse switches use the latter, but just from playing around with the reassembled mouse, I think I actually prefer the higher force. The difference is subtle, but noticeable; if you didn't know specifically what I'd done, you'd still be able to feel that the buttons are different. It's all kind of moot though, because only this one micro-load switch has that higher force, and as I wrote, the rest of the acceptable options (including the Kailh Reds) are all 0.75 N. I haven't actually played with the mouse yet, as I finished the process right before composing this post; I'll have a gaming session with it tomorrow and will share my thoughts. Also, the glides on the bottom are still mostly intact. They're a little scratchier, but I can work on smoothing out the edges in the future. I don't regret the drilling process.
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Apr 21, 2020 06:57
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very cool. How come you didnt just peel off the feet and use new adhesive? Do you feel it seems worth the effort on a g703?
Fauxtool fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 07:07
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Fauxtool posted:very cool. How come you didnt just peel off the feet and use new adhesive? Do you feel it seems worth the effort on a g703? I figured if I had to detach & reattach the glides with new adhesive, one of two things could go wrong: - The adhesive might not be reapplied perfectly evenly, and may start to detach the feet at certain points (so in other words, it'd start to fall off versus the known good status of the original glides & adhesive.) I had this in mind because of past experiences: the first part was an issue with reattaching speaker grilles on a phone, and the 2nd part was with the rubber strips underneath my Chromebook falling off. - The glides might get warped during removal (either due to stripping them straight off or after using a heat gun) and then not be able to be reapplied evenly. So I guess, in other words, I wasn't confident of my ability to remove & perfectly reapply the glides. Also, the G703 is still a ~$100 MSRP mouse, even if I only paid $70 total for it, and got a 2nd as a warranty replacement (so 2 for the price of 1,) and you can buy it "renewed" on Amazon right now for ~$65 after tax. I think it's still "good enough" to be worth repairing (and, assuming it does work perfectly tomorrow when I actually try it out,) and I use its replacement* as my main gaming mouse anyways. I could certainly just sell one of them and make some money back. Mostly, though, this process was practice for having to do it on an even more expensive mouse, like the $150 G Pro wireless or G502 Lightspeed wireless, or even more expensive Razer mice like the Mamba Hyperflux or Basilisk Ultimate Hyperspeed. Many of these mice use the same Chinese Omron switches which are almost certain to fail because they're the wrong choice for the application, so your choices are to either throw the mice away and buy brand new ones, or replace the switches. Going through this process on what's either a free or $35 mouse (depending on your perspective) is a good way to prepare for the next time I have to do it. (Also, I could potentially do this as a service if the price was right!) *And, continuing to address your question on the G703, the replacement I mentioned feels like the RMB is failing the same way! It's not as bad as the original mouse got, but it does seem like occasionally it'll double-click, and neither of the mice did that when they were new. So when it gets to the point where the 2nd mouse isn't usable because of that failing switch, what should I do? Throw both of them away? Or try to repair the first one, so that I can either get it (and eventually, the other one) working, or at least get the technique down to hopefully successfully repair one of the mice after a 2nd try?
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Apr 21, 2020 07:37
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yeah i had it mixed with the cheaper g603. At 100 its worth at least trying. If you want to reapply adhesive you cant go wrong with 3M double sided tape for interior trim. Spray on adhesive is also excellent when level even coverage is important
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Apr 21, 2020 07:45
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Getting spray-on adhesive in those channels without overspray would require some careful masking, and similarly trimming double-sided tape to fit would take some more time & effort (and not necessarily less than I spent drilling through soft material.) I think the results would ultimately be fine, but I'd be more inclined to do the drilling method if I'd expected to have to open it up again; I'd reapply some form of adhesive (and possibly new glides) if I expected not to have to go in there ever again. And again it was more about the process than the original cost/value of the mouse; if I was trying to learn some delicate procedure I'd do it on some cheap PoS equipment because then I'd definitely not care if I messed it up. As it stands, the mouse I "experimented upon" was nigh unusable anyways, so in the best case scenario it went from broken to very good condition.
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Apr 21, 2020 08:01
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decant the spray into a jar and use a q-tip. i have done it on logitech mouse feet in that shape and thickness
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Apr 21, 2020 08:30
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Cool project; thanks for sharing the pictures. I'd be a little worried about sharp edges in the glides around the drill holes causing some drag/snag (and/or a scratchy sound while moving the mouse, depending on mousing surface). Have you run into that or did it come out pretty even around the drill holes?
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Apr 21, 2020 08:54
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Bought a Rival 3 to use at the quarantine WFH desk and it's really good for $30
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Apr 21, 2020 14:52
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Atomizer posted:Getting spray-on adhesive in those channels without overspray would require some careful masking, and similarly trimming double-sided tape to fit would take some more time & effort (and not necessarily less than I spent drilling through soft material.) I think the results would ultimately be fine, but I'd be more inclined to do the drilling method if I'd expected to have to open it up again; I'd reapply some form of adhesive (and possibly new glides) if I expected not to have to go in there ever again. Maybe a heat gun would help, I am not sure. With most other mice you can take the feet off and just put them back on by simply rubbing your finger across it a few times while applying pressure. No adhesive needed. Usually works 2-3 times before they start to peel. The other big issue is if your adhesive adds any height at all to the feet you're at risk of the mouse just not tracking. And LoD isn't available to adjust with the 16k hero sensor. The second biggest flaw of the modern logitech mice is not allowing adjustable lod, because the stock lod is just too low for certain surfaces and rules out certain aftermarket skates. Khorne fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 18:27
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I grabbed a new g703 lightspeed a while back. I have an issue where the mouse will randomly jump to one corner of the screen. This is a huge issue while gaming as my guy will look straight up or down and start spinning. Any idea on what might be causing that?
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Apr 21, 2020 22:20
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