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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Why don't they just send The Joker to the Phantom Zone or something already? That was literally the plot of the Lego Batman Movie and, unsurprisingly, did *not* work out well. Honestly, DC keeps the Joker around because he's a toxic masculinity wet dream made manifest. An unstoppable malevolent force that's seemingly immortal and capable of making his pain everyone else's.
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Apr 18, 2020 11:29
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Why don't they just send The Joker to the Phantom Zone or something already?
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Apr 18, 2020 11:45
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I think they should get rid of the Joker (across the DC Universe) for at least 5 years or so. He's getting old and maybe something interesting can come out of it. Maybe have somebody travel back in time and split his parents up and continue from there. Edit: or the DC version of this  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJnMaTx4yjI
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Apr 18, 2020 12:05
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itry posted:I think they should get rid of the Joker (across the DC Universe) for at least 5 years or so. He's getting old and maybe something interesting can come out of it. Well lucky for us they're about to go full on into the Three Jokers bullshit.
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Apr 18, 2020 12:51
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itry posted:I think they should get rid of the Joker (across the DC Universe) for at least 5 years or so. He's getting old and maybe something interesting can come out of it. Some sort of... Joker, for better or worse, is an iconic villain. Same as Lex Luthor or Brainiac or the Rogues or a bunch of others. There's a certain level of status quo that must be maintained and headlining villains like that are part of it. There is no good in-universe reason why they're still around and at a certain point, that's part of the conceit of modern comic books. They're a universe that bends to the whims of the EIC and the individual writers and corporate as well as the fans, even if they might defy some in-universe logic. Like, in comics, I think it's been the past year that Joker really returned and not via the Man Who Laughs (basically evil universe cross between Joker and Batman) after some plot hook was set up to be picked up later a few years down the line after he was supposedly finished for good (again) as that writer was leaving the book and someone else was gonna do their own thing.
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Apr 18, 2020 12:52
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Rhyno posted:Well lucky for us they're about to go full on into the Three Jokers bullshit. How long ago was that set up again? I can't even remember.
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Apr 18, 2020 12:53
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Xelkelvos posted:How long ago was that set up again? I can't even remember. I dunno, 1996?
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Apr 18, 2020 13:26
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The joker is the batman equivelent of being at a great salad bar and eating only that rancid lettuce when the rest of the buffet is awesome. after several horrible batman related media using the joker, with the last straw being batman ninja, I have a personal boycott on joker media as when used badly, he stinks and takes up valuable rogues gallery time. Give me the ribeye of Bane, the ice cubes of Mr. Freeze, the gin and tonic of Two-Face, the surprisingly delicious caesar salad of Poison Ivy, and the spicey Chicken Wings of the Penguin. shades of eternity fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 13:50
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Toplowtech posted:Also i really don't like the way you treat the mentally ill. Isn't he canonically not insane or something? I feel like remembering that I heard DC say something like that before. shades of eternity posted:The joker is the batman equivelent of being at a great salad bar and eating only that rancid lettuce when the rest of the buffet is awesome. But yeah, I'd like a break from the Joker for a while to let other villains have a chance to do things!
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Apr 18, 2020 16:39
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itry posted:Maybe have somebody travel back in time and split his parents up and continue from there. 1. Remove Joker from timeline. 2. Batman doesn't exist. 3. Justice league gets taken over by space starfish. 4. Nobody can stop them because Batman was the only one who could. 5. All subsequent tales are set in space-starfish-run Earth, and I guess feature conflicts between space starfish with different opinions about what they should be doing?
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Apr 18, 2020 17:06
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roomforthetuna posted:1. Remove Joker from timeline. But Joker existed because of Batman, not the other way around. You're thinking of the Jack Nicholson movie where Joker killed his parents. In the comics, that was just some random hood named Joe Chill.
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Apr 18, 2020 17:08
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Are they not doing trailers for the next episodes? The end credits just, end for me. Also, nice callback on why Ivy had overalls. PeterCat fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 17:11
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:But Joker existed because of Batman, not the other way around. You're thinking of the Jack Nicholson movie where Joker killed his parents. In the comics, that was just some random hood named Joe Chill. You can not change the future without changing the past.
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Apr 18, 2020 17:20
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:But Joker existed because of Batman, not the other way around. You're thinking of the Jack Nicholson movie where Joker killed his parents. In the comics, that was just some random hood named Joe Chill.
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Apr 18, 2020 17:26
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DC will walk away from the Joker when his books stop selling.
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Apr 18, 2020 17:48
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Isn't he canonically not insane or something? I feel like remembering that I heard DC say something like that before. I think this is what you're referring to: http://comixsecrethq.blogspot.com/2014/01/super-sanity.html
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Apr 18, 2020 19:12
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I liked that Gotham used both ideas. Jerome Valesca was an unhinged lunatic who did things for no clear reason just for the fun of causing chaos with the only constant being trying to kill Bruce wayne because he kept failing to do so (getting the new 52 Treatment when his face got cut off after his death and before his resurrection and Bruce Wayne cornering him in a hall of mirrors and practically punching his face back off), while his brother Jeremiah became seriously organised in his madness and tried to remake the city in his image, with everything being part of an elaborate plan. And they were both a lot of fun.
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Apr 18, 2020 19:29
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PeterCat posted:Are they not doing trailers for the next episodes? Yeah for some reason this season they haven't been doing next times. Blueberry Pancakes posted:Why don't they just send The Joker to the Phantom Zone or something already? The Phantom Zone seems kind of cruel and unusual every time they've shown it in media.
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Apr 18, 2020 20:44
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muscles like this! posted:The Phantom Zone seems kind of cruel and unusual every time they've shown it in media. If Superman had Batman villains he'd be like "welp, I guess Penguin's the mayor now, gotta do what he says!"
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Apr 18, 2020 23:15
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DaveKap posted:Yes, actually, she can! It's called polyamory and I wouldn't put it past this show to make it happen. Space Cadet Omoly posted:Man, I would love that. Positive representations of polyamorous relationships are way too far and few between. I do hope they go down this route- Kite Man is just too freakin' good to throw away, 'beta cuck' aside (God, I hope that's not the route they go with him). poo poo, Harley doesn't even have to sleep with him or anything, so long as they have Ivy to hold all three of them together.
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Apr 18, 2020 23:34
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CommissarMega posted:Kite Man is just too freakin' good to throw away,
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Apr 18, 2020 23:44
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They'll never get rid of the Joker, but I wish they'd mandate him being non-murderous for a decade and spend some time with the version who's "lawless prop comic" and not "vaguely clown-themed slasher."
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Apr 18, 2020 23:50
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roomforthetuna posted:Now you mention it that does explain Superman typically being an establishment stooge. His whole home planet was basically authoritarian douches. Nah, that's not it. Superman wasn't raised on Krypton. He's an establishment stooge because he was raised by a couple of conservative farmers from rural Kansas.
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Apr 19, 2020 00:23
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What works with Kite Man and Ivy is taht they're both extremely insecure in their own respective ways and compensate for them accordingly. What works is that they're not the sort of insecurities that become codependent on each other. Instead, they sort of compensate and diminish the other. Kite Man's presence and eagerness to please helps mitigate Ivy's misanthropy while Ivy's own acceptance of Kite Man's limitations despite her overwhelming abilities helps ameliorate his own lack of self-confidence.
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Apr 19, 2020 00:24
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Nah, that's not it. Superman wasn't raised on Krypton. He's an establishment stooge because he was raised by a couple of conservative farmers from rural Kansas.
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Apr 19, 2020 00:27
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roomforthetuna posted:True, maybe it goes the other way, his willingness to phantom zone people reflects his authoritarian conservative upbringing, where punishing criminals is important and rehabilitating them isn't even a thing to be considered. What kind of sucks about that is the fact that, because of how comics typically work, Superman is right and rehabilitation will always fail. You always want the classic villains to come back and do more villainy, after all. Then again, tossing them in the Phantom Zone never works either since they always seem to get out.
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Apr 19, 2020 00:40
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roomforthetuna posted:This is the most amazing achievement of this show. Taking one of the stupidest weakest most unreusable concept characters and making them a beloved frequent-occurrence character that we want to never end. Also that he's not even the only one, sharkyfella is the same way. Tom King's recent run of Batman was the basis for this iteration of Kite Man, btw. It meanders way too much towards the end and I wish he had stopped dipping into the MY PARENTS ARE DEEEEAAAD thing, but he had a good run.
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Apr 19, 2020 00:40
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I am in awe of this show. There was so much character building and humor off what was basically a MacGuffin plot. Like I can feel the little moments sprinkled through these 22 minutes that set up bigger points later in the series. And the humanity and heartfeltness of the dialogue. These writers are fan-loving-tastically talented.
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Apr 19, 2020 00:45
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roomforthetuna posted:This is the most amazing achievement of this show. Taking one of the stupidest weakest most unreusable concept characters and making them a beloved frequent-occurrence character that we want to never end. Also that he's not even the only one, sharkyfella is the same way. For real, I was talking up the show to a friend who hasn't read a comic book since the 80's and he asked 'Should I know who the hell Kite Man is?' and my answer was 'No, it would be very odd if you even knew the name before this show.'
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Apr 19, 2020 00:47
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muscles like this! posted:The Phantom Zone seems kind of cruel and unusual every time they've shown it in media. Yeah, but the people they use it on are all 100% guilty and utterly evil. In real life I'm extremely against the prison system and anti-capital punishment (please don't try to argue with me about this, I don't want to start a derail), but trying to bring those real world values into a fictional universe where there are criminals that A) have God like powers B) have used these powers to publicly murder thousands of people and C) are definitely going to use those powers to murder thousands of people again, doesn't really work. It's like what happened on this show with the Queen of Fables (great character btw, sad to see her go even though it fit the story), one the one hand her being imprisoned in a tax code may have been "cruel and unusual", but the split second she got out she went right back to being a serial killer because it turns out yeah she really is just super horrible. Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Apr 19, 2020 |
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Apr 19, 2020 00:56
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PeterCat posted:
I know right? That was so clever it went completely over my head until I saw the dancing Ivy and Harley gif on this forum. And then it clicked with Ivy saying she bought 10 sets of overalls because Catwoman liked them. That was also an unexpected dynamic. The usually unflappable Ivy geeking out over Catwoman, especially after being taken advantage of.
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Apr 19, 2020 04:01
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The part where Catwoman steals Ivy's jacket right off of her had me in stitches.
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Apr 19, 2020 04:28
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I liked the CW Supergirl show in reference to the Superman upbringing thing because she had an interesting dynamic with her past - because she was about 14 when she left Krypton, she knew what she was missing and had Kryptonian values so she's kind of racist to the Daxamite character that shows up and has to get over her prejudices because their planet and Krypton had a beef. Also her biggest source of anger was her mother sending her away to save her because it made her kind of a weirdo with nowhere she could easily fit in but also because she learns how much of a poo poo her mother really was and that Krypton exploding was partially her fault.
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Apr 19, 2020 06:05
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MadJackal posted:And the humanity and heartfeltness of the dialogue. These writers are fan-loving-tastically talented. The cut gags with Cat Woman were phenomenal. Especially, "girl please, I'm never not stealing jewels." There is a literal loving rimshot as the camera pulls back to show her covered in jewelry. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Apr 19, 2020 |
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Apr 19, 2020 07:03
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I like how they kept Darwin Cooke's Catwoman costume too. Like Burnside Batgirl, they're getting the best costumes for everyone. Though I was never into Rolly Derby Harley. It was always tie too much to a specific time. But then looking at all her canonical comic costumes, that is probably her best one. Outside of the classic, but clearly not wearing that is a visual que to show she's cut ties with just being the jokers abused girlfriend. The show actually takes that costume and then the more familiar movie harley and turns into something that reminds you of the other ones, but makes something that its own. That being said, I wish she'd get pants, comic women deserve pants.
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Apr 19, 2020 07:24
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:The part where Catwoman steals Ivy's jacket right off of her had me in stitches. It looks better on her anyway
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Apr 19, 2020 12:25
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:What kind of sucks about that is the fact that, because of how comics typically work, Superman is right and rehabilitation will always fail. You always want the classic villains to come back and do more villainy, after all. Then again, tossing them in the Phantom Zone never works either since they always seem to get out. I wouldn't want it for every show, it gets pretty cloying, but it's nice to have *one* superhero show that isn't about punishing lawbreakers.
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Apr 19, 2020 22:22
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roomforthetuna posted:It's nice that the Supergirl TV series goes the opposite way and pretty much always rehabilitates everyone. Also many of the baddies are trying to do what they think is best for everyone, not just get power and riches for themselves, they just have a different view of what's going to work or what's acceptable to get there. That sounds so Steven Universe. Fan base that’s obsessed with power levels: HOW WILL THEY EVER BEAT THIS PERSON? Answer: they talked it out
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Apr 20, 2020 01:03
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roomforthetuna posted:It's nice that the Supergirl TV series goes the opposite way and pretty much always rehabilitates everyone. Also many of the baddies are trying to do what they think is best for everyone, not just get power and riches for themselves, they just have a different view of what's going to work or what's acceptable to get there. The theme of villains always being redeemable has been a thing in Modern Superman for a while. At least half a decade or more, I think. The Phantom Zone is reserved for individuals for whom no proper justice system exists and even then, I don't think it's been used to capture things that weren't Kryptonian. Humans got human justice; aliens get GLC justice.
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Apr 20, 2020 01:35
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Given that Alan Moore has said he really regrets doing The Killing Joke altogether, and THIS little chestnut: While I don't fault the conclusion, Alan Moore's default setting is "regrets doing a comic book," so...
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