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I mean the game already had an Ian Smith quote, so they had to show up somewhere. For extra class, remember that the tech also obsoletes Great Zimbabwe. It is a testament to the character of the game's content that i'm not mentioning a ton of awful things in the main update (for instance, Management in the techs not mentioned section came with a Racial Profiling building that grants a slight decrease in crime for a big unhappiness penalty), and what manages to get through because it's tied with the significant stuff is still really awful. Jossar fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 21:12
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Jesus Christ! The early stuff about alpha males and females and 'omega child crew' was eye-rolling but having those specific wonders and mechanics in the game is too much. Kangxi fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 21:26
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HannibalBarca posted:....does Imperialism allow Rhodesian culture? FFS. 
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Apr 22, 2020 23:13
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Secured Borders disabling Ellis Island is really funny to me. I mean it's kind of technically sort of true...
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Apr 22, 2020 23:51
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...I'm starting to feel like the fact that my games always peter out by the rennaissance has been to my benefit.
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Apr 23, 2020 00:39
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I'm glad the Great Mongol Nation, devoted servants of the Great Sun and masters of the sky and sea, are only briefly considering some of these bad ideas before discarding them as bad ideas.
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Apr 23, 2020 02:22
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Fun fact! The Atomic Era is the halfway point of the game! In truth the technological 50% mark is slightly closer to the beginning of the spectrum rather than the end, but because a lot of those are due to religious techs which we'll never research it's not so much more than you think. More like 45% of the way through the era rather than exactly halfway through. Yes, this means we're not even halfway done yet. And this is the longest of all the eras, albeit by a slight margin over the Prehistoric. Jossar fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 02:41
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Lol I forgot the game's take on socialized welfare  Well that's a lot of money to pay for little gain, surely the welfare fraud crime won't be that bad in comparison  For those of you playing at home -5% wealth for a crime that appears at above +260 is unusually bad compared to literally any of the crimes. The civic, the welfare office, and a mild crime rate costs your city a combined -19% of its wealth per turn which makes marxism look tame in comparison zetamind2000 fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 02:47
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The speed at which you're going through this game is pretty insane.  Kudos to you. To be honest, I definitely wasn't aware of some of the more questionable stuff in the later eras (some of it but not all). I understand the sentiment of those making a kitchen sink mod of this insane nature to include literally everything in history, both triumphant and terrible, and maybe I'm more naive than most in believing that most of the people putting in these events and buildings aren't doing so from malicious intent. On the other hand, there's a difference between simply including unsavory parts of history as part and parcel of a kitchen sink mod and actively perpetuating harmful stereotypes or bringing to the forefront of the mind events that had and still have grave and tremendous consequences towards entire groups of people even down to recent history (and Civ itself certainly isn't clean of this either. Mao and Stalin even being in Civ 4 is a testament to that). Part of it I suppose is the nature of the game being modded: you want to include all this stuff but you also have to incentivize their use just as a matter of basic game design, otherwise why even include it? But even still, some of the stuff included and written about in the Civlopedia is downright unnecessary. There's a reason I highlighted the whole Gypsy/Romani thing in my playthrough, it's cause the stereotypes and discrimination used to vilify and in many cases completely stamp out the Romani from various parts of Europe had a profound effect on those people that continue down to this day. Including them in the game isn't a problem, even maybe acknowledging in some way the strife that their presence caused in several European communities because of their nomadic lifestyles could be fine too. Having their UU literally be a Criminal unit called the "Beggar" is a step too far though. Maybe the devs would scoff at all this wondering why we're all making such a big deal about stuff that happened in history, and ultimately it's their mod and they can do whatever they want with it, but is this honestly such an unreasonable take? Maybe it ultimately doesn't matter since I still played (and enjoyed) this mod despite all this, so maybe I'm part of the problem  Anyway enough soapboxing. Jossar, you mind if I catalog your posts in my Table of Contents post so people can more easily reach them? I'd love to see you go the distance in this playthrough despite how much drudgery the middle eras are looking to be, lord knows with how detailed and exacting my preferred LP style is how long it'll take me to get to Space shenanigans even assuming a proper update schedule.
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Apr 23, 2020 03:07
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I'd love it if this was all formally organized at the beginning of the thread. (Also i'm going through it all so fast because I don't really have anything else to do given the current climate, and the way I react to that is hyperfixation. I really should start trying to look for a job again but it's definitely a bad market.) My enjoyment of the game takes the form of loving anything that goes through the entirety of the scope of human history, and the games that do that to the extent that this one does are rare and typically as much of a tedious slog (they're usually clicker games). So in that respect, at least, I forgive it much, and even applaud the years of effort that went into making this all work. But at the end of the day I will respectfully disagree about charitableness to the devs in terms of treatment of the subject matter: after everything I have seen i've kind of come to think of C2C as a horrible dumpster fire at this point (much like the ones soon to be burning in our cities, though less ideological) and i'm trying to get what I can out of it what I can in spite of that. Jossar fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 03:31
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It'll probably get better once you reach space and beyond, the units, techs, and civics are speculative at that point so there can't be nearly as many offensive things as when the game is centered around earth and its history. Whether or not the game mechanics improve though is another question entirely.
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Apr 23, 2020 03:41
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The game mechanics will get slightly more responsive again (beyond sending out corporate conversions) near the end of the Atomic Era and increase in interaction until roughly their final form sometime in Nanotech (two eras after this one). That's about as far as I made it last time before I went "It's just gonna be this but in larger stages for the rest of the game?" and stopped. Maybe I underestimated how different later stages would get? I've certainly been wrong about how game mechanics actually operate before. In either case i'm fairly certain that having made it that far, with the incentive of performing for an audience I can make it to the end eventually.
Jossar fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 03:57
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overmind2000 posted:It'll probably get better once you reach space and beyond, the units, techs, and civics are speculative at that point so there can't be nearly as many offensive things as when the game is centered around earth and its history. One would hope but chuds can be futurists and their ideas are replicated there too
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Apr 23, 2020 04:01
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A world wonder that is entirely about parachuting harry potter fanfic on impoverished nations to enlighten the savage population.
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Apr 23, 2020 04:36
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Please show the scientology religion's stats when you get to it, I want to see if the mid/late-game religious options stack up.
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Apr 23, 2020 05:09
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Grapplejack posted:Please show the scientology religion's stats when you get to it, I want to see if the mid/late-game religious options stack up. Y'know what, it shows up some time in the middle of the era and I have no intention of getting it myself. Let's show them off now. Jossar's Playthrough - Gimme That New Time Religion, Religions of the Renaissance through Atomic Era I really don't like writing posts with this level of nitty gritty detail, so if you want to see Classical and Medieval that's gonna be SJM or one of you diving in and looking. Renaissance Era Sikhism  Description: Sikh is a combination generalist/militarist religion. There isn't a lot here to go over, but what little's here will serve you well until Gunpowder units stop being relevant. Sikh Gurdwara: +1 Happiness, +1 Health, +2 Culture, +1 Happiness if Sikhism is your State Religion, +3 Learning, +1 Health with Church civic, New Archers/Melee/Gunpowder Units get +1 XP., Trains Missionaries, Turns 1 Citizen into Priest Sikh Cathedral: +1 Happiness, +15% Culture, +2 Happiness if Sikhism is your State Religion, +4 Learning, +1 Happiness from Incense, New Archers/Melee/Gunpowder Units get +1 XP, Turns 2 Citizens into Priests, needs City Council or equivalent The Golden Temple: Holy Site, +4 Culture, +1 GPP (prophet), Turns 3 Citizens into Priest, +1 Gold per Sikh City Industrial Era Baha'i  Description: Baha'i is a late game science/learning religion. Gets sucker punched real bad by its monastery being obsoleted but still probably comparable/better than its competition.The Friendship wonder's kinda nice if you're under siege by the AI and need some breathing room. Y'know, on the off chance that you don't rule the map already by the Industrial Era. Baha'i Temple: +1 Science, +1 Happiness, +1 Culture, +1 Learning, Turn 1 Citizen into Priest Baha'i Monastery: +1 Science, + 2 Culture, +5% Science, Heals (People) 2%, +1 Health with Church civic, +2 learning, trains Missionaries. Many bonuses obsolete with Modern Physics Baha'i Dar be-mehr: +3 Science, +15% Culture, +2 Happiness if State Religion, +1 Happiness with Incense, +4 Learning, needs City Council or equivalent Shrine of Bab: Holy Site, +4 Culture, +1 GPP (prophet), +1 gold per Baha'i city, +1 Science per building in city, Turn 3 Citizens into Priest Lotus Temple: World Wonder, +10 Culture, +2 GPP (prophet), +2 Happiness if Bahai is state religion, +1 Free Priest, +10 Tourism, Changes Leaders with Furious and Annoyed Attitude to Cautious Attitude Mormonism  Description: No, they don't take away Coffee and other drugs any more. Has a National Wonder instead of a World Wonder and their more powerful buildings can work in smaller cities. Starts weaker but benefits from its building bonuses not going obsolete like many of the Monastery ones do around Modern Physics. Might still not be worth it. Also does the Corporation thing where your Missionaries are trained in a central headquarters rather than locally distributed monasteries. LDS Temple: +1 Happiness, +12% Culture, +2 Happiness if Mormonism is state religion, +4 Learning, Turns 2 Citizens into Priest LDS Meetinghouse: +2 Culture, +2 Happiness if Mormonism is State Religion, Turns 1 Citizen into Priest, +1 Learning Mormon Shrine: Holy Site, +4 Culture, +1 GPP (prophet), +2 wealth per Mormon city, +1 science per Mormon city, Turns 3 Citizens into Priest LDS Missionary Training Centre: National Wonder, +2 Culture, +5% Science, +1 Health with Church civic, Trains Missionaries, +2 Learning Atomic Era Cao Dai  Description: Cao Dai is super boring. Their description is more interesting than their game functionality. I guess their Holy City's really good? Cao Dai Temple: +1 Happiness, +1 Culture, +1 Happiness if Cao Dai is State Religion Cao Dai Monastery: +2 Culture, +5% Science, +1 Health with Church Civic. Trains Missionaries, Many bonuses obsolete with Modern Physics Cao Dai Cathedral: +1 Happiness, +2 Happiness if Cao Dai is State Religion, +15% Culture, +1 Happiness with Incense, Turns 2 Citizens into Priest Great Temple Tay Ninh: Holy Site, +1 GPP (prophet), +1 wealth/+3 Culture per city with Cao Dai, +1 Health in all cities on Continent, Turns 3 Citizens into Priest Scientology  Description: Do you feel like your already Scrooge McDuck-esque vault of 15 million gold isn't large enough? Then do I have the religion for you, at least according to the devs. Scientology is all about the money, to the point where unlike all the others which have passively really good cultural generation, Scientology's is kinda mediocre. I have no idea what compels you to get this from a gameplay perspective apart from if you're playing Secularists and some Free Church variants and just want another religion to add onto the pile. Scientology Temple: +1 Wealth, +2% Wealth, +1 Learning, +1 Happiness if Scientology is State Religion, Turns 1 Citizen into Priest Scientology Monastery: +2 Wealth, +5% Wealth, +1 Health with Church civic, +2 Learning, Trains Missionaries Scientology Cathedral: +1 Happiness, +3 Wealth, +1 Culture, +5% Wealth, +4 Learning, Turns 2 Citizens into Priests,+2 Happiness if Scientology is State Religion, needs City Council or equivalent Scientology Sede: Holy Site, +4 Wealth, +2 Culture, +2 Wealth per city with Scientology Jossar fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 17:16
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I am kinda surprised that all religions seem to have only positive effects in this mod. Developers totally missed chance to make more depraved hot takes there.
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Apr 23, 2020 18:50
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Banemaster posted:I am kinda surprised that all religions seem to have only positive effects in this mod. Developers totally missed chance to make more depraved hot takes there. I get the feeling we shouldn't look at Islam
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Apr 23, 2020 18:55
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Islam is fine. Honestly the religions are all pretty inoffensive, though some are better developed than others. What is ludicrous though is that despite this being a kitchen sink mod, Eastern Orthodoxy and the Reformation/Protestantism isn't represented anywhere, but Mormonism is for reasons?
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Apr 23, 2020 21:39
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VulpesInculta posted:Islam is fine. Honestly the religions are all pretty inoffensive, though some are better developed than others. Mormonism has even less of a reason to be there after they took out the mechanic of it taking away your alcohol, tobacco, coffee, and tea resources. Islam used to take away pigs and alcohol but at least it has multiple wonders to make up for that. Lol at Scientology's buildings having generic religion names when those are clearly pictures of the Celebrity Center, Flag Land Base, and other important Scientology places.
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Apr 23, 2020 21:52
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Jossar’s Playthrough – Atomic 1/Dieselpunk  We hit the Atomic Era.   I pick up Industrialism. In addition to all the various new metals and ores unlocked and actual turn of the century level battleship technology, we gain the ability to burn our garbage and use it to power our factories.   Industrialism also unlocks several new Corporations and I send down this Great Merchant to create Fashion House. It’s basically an engine for converting wealth into culture, although it recoups some of that loss later via designer clothing stores.   Flight marks the beginning of a series of techs which are the assertion of proper history to do things that we already gained the ability to do through alt-timeline techs. Planes, tanks, zeppelins, submarines, etc. Flight is also special because it gives us the ability to airlift units from one city to another once a turn.  Oh here’s a new one, the ability to build carriers. Up until this point “proper” planes have been limited to cities and are of limited use when going out to fight. Now you can build carriers which hold planes and be transported to the fight.  Only to immediately be overshadowed by our researching of the next punk tech.   Observe the beginnings of the dirigible economy…        And every crackpot weapon design from the early part of the century somehow made functional.   Including of course, this Zeppelin that carries planes. I did say that the last tech was immediately overshadowed, right?  Aviation brings with it more advanced fighters and bombers, and for the first time a unit to counter them from the ground.     Rocketry brings with it the first missile units (including... a PLO fighter for some reason?) , and more importantly for our purposes, a really good science based corporation. I’ll be sure to spread this one ASAP. It is at this point that I realize that i've managed to skip over the entirety of the Western portrait-based art canon from the Renaissance onwards. Whoops. It just wasn't really needed until now with all our culture generation, y'know? And you used to be able to go all the way to the Information Era without it, so I guess it’s good it’s only in the Atomic that we have to catch up and have next episode be the Art History one, right? (Techs not mentioned: Advanced Metallurgy, Armored Vehicles, Submarine Warfare, Trench Warfare, Automatic Weapons, Zeppelins) Jossar fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 22:21
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Hell yeah we crimson skies now the PLO fighter is, I assume, due to their heavy usage of rockets and mortars when it comes to actions against Israel, but it is also very dumb and nonsensical. so it's a perfect fit for this mod
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Apr 23, 2020 23:24
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Why can Alumium Co HQ only go on an earth plot? I demand interstellar corporations!
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Apr 24, 2020 00:40
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I actually forget if you can spread religions/corporations to space. It wouldn't do you a whole lot of good because once you get off Earth cities have different building trees, but it would be kind of funny to put Andeanism on the sun.
Jossar fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Apr 24, 2020 |
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Apr 24, 2020 00:47
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quote:we need to go back and pick up motorsports and anime our society cannot survive without them
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Apr 24, 2020 01:51
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Once the Author is gone, the claim to decipher a text becomes quite useless.                   
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Apr 24, 2020 02:32
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Seraphic Neoman posted:we need to go back and pick up motorsports and anime our society cannot survive without them Agreed. A society without Initial D is unconscionable.
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Apr 24, 2020 02:35
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Well that was a series of wholly unnecessary techs and associated buildings.
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Apr 24, 2020 03:14
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"Glory to the USSR!" -russian propaganda
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Apr 24, 2020 03:19
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One of those quote had an amazing author though. Well, she was definitely competent.
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Apr 24, 2020 03:19
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HannibalBarca posted:"Glory to the USSR!" -russian propaganda Lmao
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Apr 24, 2020 03:22
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kw0134 posted:Well that was a series of wholly unnecessary techs and associated buildings. I was kind of conflicted on how to do this one: I was half tempted to just swap out the associated tech screens with actual period appropriate paintings and just discuss art history for a bit. I was tempted to actually remove everyone's names from the quotes to further illustrate and bring attention to the point that so much of our attention is focused on those, but the Nazi filmmaker one made it kind of awkward. So turning this whole thing into even more of an "art piece" was out. I could've just left the techs out altogether but there's like 10 useless techs in there before even getting to other ones that would come up in the normal course of play (sports is going to have this problem too, but there's less of them so I feel less bad about it). Plus, y'know, the bit where we discovered the Moon. I am content with what my official filing system will record this as, or namely won't. An optional update and future art stuff will have to stand on its own merits or get thrown in the pile like everything else. Jossar fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Apr 24, 2020 |
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Apr 24, 2020 03:29
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quote:is that the moon
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Apr 24, 2020 03:35
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Jossar posted:I was kind of conflicted on how to do this one: I was half tempted to just swap out the associated tech screens with actual period appropriate paintings and just discuss art history for a bit. I was tempted to actually remove everyone's names from the quotes to further illustrate and bring attention to the point that so much of our attention is focused on those, but the Nazi filmmaker one made it kind of awkward. So turning this whole thing into even more of an "art piece" was out. I could've just left the techs out altogether but there's like 10 useless techs in there before even getting to other ones that would come up in the normal course of play (sports is going to have this problem too, but there's less of them so I feel less bad about it). Plus, y'know, the bit where we discovered the Moon. ). It's an absolutely ridiculous thing to have to slog through.
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Apr 24, 2020 03:57
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HannibalBarca posted:"Glory to the USSR!" -russian propaganda In game it's actually kind of funny because the Russian national anthem starts blaring in place of a voice clip. President Ark posted:is that the moon Yes. Jossar fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Apr 24, 2020 |
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Apr 24, 2020 04:05
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Ghenghis Khan is so good his territory now covers a bit of the moon.
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Apr 24, 2020 04:12
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Jossar posted:In game it's actually kind of funny because the Russian national anthem starts blaring in place of a voice clip. lol that owns
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Apr 24, 2020 04:55
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 24, 2020 05:02
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I just caught up on the thread, and I saw theres a Haitian culture. Mind sharing what they get, because Im Haitian? While I kinda dread what theyll put in the worst I can think of that random white people would know would either be something about Papa Doc or the boat peoplr we had in the ninties.
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Apr 24, 2020 05:08
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Communist Zombie posted:I just caught up on the thread, and I saw theres a Haitian culture. Mind sharing what they get, because Im Haitian? While I kinda dread what theyll put in the worst I can think of that random white people would know would either be something about Papa Doc or the boat peoplr we had in the ninties. The notable thing about Haitian culture in C2C is that it's incredibly difficult to get compared with most of the others with it requiring a city to have the North American, African, and European culture groups. Strangely they're one of the only cultures in the game that doesn't have a unique leader which is kind of dumb because if they're gonna use Haitian rebels as the unique unit the obvious next step would be to give them Toussaint Louverture. 
zetamind2000 fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Apr 24, 2020 |
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Apr 24, 2020 05:57
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