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Kaza42 posted:This is a parody comic, right? What does your heart tell you?
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Apr 24, 2020 07:30
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Kaza42 posted:This is a parody comic, right? My guess is that it's not. This is from the webcomic Ralph and Chuck. They had a deviantart profile by the name of tegthethird which apparently explained their reasoning for making the strip in question which made it sound like a non-parody. That is if the Reddit screenshot is accurate, as the account no longer exists. Trying to visit the official site gave me a security warning from my antivirus browser, but I managed to find a Twitter account which posts a bunch of the comics. It's long since defunct, but a quick skim and most of the comics appear non-political. So I honestly don't know if it's a parody or not. Aaaaaand I just realized I spent over 15 minutes playing web detective on an online brony strip. I need help. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 24, 2020 07:45
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Loxbourne posted:I kicked around an idea for a Rogue Trader campaign where the players lost their ship to mutiny but stumbled across a wrecked grand cruiser (most powerful ship class in the game, but can have dodgy demon-attracting engines), with the idea being that now they have to get their prize out of the mud and home with a skeleton crew and whatever they can scavenge. I feel like the system is pretty decent for the fantasy stuff, but yeah once you get to 40k it breaks down horribly. The gun porn addiction definitely doesn't do sci-fi games any favors either.
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Apr 24, 2020 09:18
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Ithle01 posted:I feel like the system is pretty decent for the fantasy stuff, but yeah once you get to 40k it breaks down horribly. The gun porn addiction definitely doesn't do sci-fi games any favors either.
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Apr 24, 2020 09:21
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I don't think 40k is really gun porn heavy, I only ever here their names when someone is describing them during a battle report for profiles, or the bolter which is pretty iconic.
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Apr 24, 2020 09:41
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Nessus posted:I never got this poo poo because most classical science fiction stuff has cool ray guns which are immensely destructive and also intrinsically adjustable, so your fuckin DeLameter can fill the role of thirty different tactical subweapons. It's the same problem facing any adaptation of a property that has a lot of precisely defined weapons with pre-defined in-setting roles. The audience expects to see all the guns (or their particular favourite gun), and for all those guns to have the same niches they do in the original IP. You gotta have something called a Heavy Bolter than works like a portable HMG. You gotta have something called a Multi-Melta that kills tanks at short range. Then you add the need to fill 101 supplements and sourcebooks with content, and now you've got variants in the mix (laser, hand laser, hotshot laser, snub-nosed laser, sawn-off laser...). Then you've got major characters and their signature weapons atop that, and of course PCs want to develop their own signature weapons too, and if there isn't some sort of mechanical delineation between all those different lasers then the fanbase starts screaming, and so on. Look at the expanded universe stuff for, say, Halo - the readership gets a kick out of seeing The Pistol From Halo, The Assault Rifle From Halo, The Tank From Halo, The Spaceship From Halo, etc etc and all these things must act somehow in accordance with the audience's expectations of them. Heck, half the reason 40K has such mainstream appeal is that it doesn't tax the dumber members of its audience's brains with "wacky" things like ray guns. Not ones that don't work exactly like an M-16 with an underslung grenade launcher, at least.
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Apr 24, 2020 11:24
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Proud Rat Mom posted:I don't think 40k is really gun porn heavy, I only ever here their names when someone is describing them during a battle report for profiles, or the bolter which is pretty iconic. Like most sci-fi games the shooting stuff rules are larger than they need to be and there's a lot of feature bloat over time and stuff like that. Unfortunately, the FFG rule system really doesn't handle stuff like this well. Then again I'm not really going to like this stuff because I'm a weirdo who thinks guns are stupid. When I was younger I cared more, but now a days I'm just like 'roll to hit/damage and call it a day' is enough unless we're specifically making a tactical shooter pen and paper game.
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Apr 24, 2020 11:32
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It makes sense to have stuff in the wargame property, I mean more how there is this illusion of content for a lot of RPGs which involves modelling a poo poo ton of specific brands of firearms (or inventing a comparable quantity of imaginary future firearms with caseless ammunition), when in practice the list could basically be: * Pistol * Maybe revolver as distinct from standard automatic pistol * Shotgun * Long rifle * Uzi/SMG/Thompson (as appropriate) with a note along the lines of "If you bother to count, here's how often you'd need to reload." I actually had a sort of Apocalypse World-esque idea for one of these tactical operator games where part of the worldbuilding is that you define THE BEST GUN (and why?), THE SECOND BEST GUN (why isn't it the first?) and THE SHITTIEST GUN (but why do people use it?) Guns'perator: The Reloading.
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Apr 24, 2020 11:36
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Part of the problem is also that the combat has relatively few levers to pull. A weapon's basically got accuracy(penalty or bonus), damage done, cost, ammo capacity and firing modes for the most part. So at some point it gets real hard to differentiate a gun in any way except "it shoots more big," and at some point you get to the stuff that just vaporizes PC's instantly.Nessus posted:It makes sense to have stuff in the wargame property, I mean more how there is this illusion of content for a lot of RPGs which involves modelling a poo poo ton of specific brands of firearms (or inventing a comparable quantity of imaginary future firearms with caseless ammunition), when in practice the list could basically be: This I can only agree with. A basic "chassis" for each weapon type and then some modifiers. Like, you want an AK-47? Then you have an Assault Rifle with the Very Durable tag. Boom, pow, bingo bango, any more detail is the realm of pointless gunwank.
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Apr 24, 2020 11:36
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PurpleXVI posted:Part of the problem is also that the combat has relatively few levers to pull. A weapon's basically got accuracy(penalty or bonus), damage done, cost, ammo capacity and firing modes for the most part. So at some point it gets real hard to differentiate a gun in any way except "it shoots more big," and at some point you get to the stuff that just vaporizes PC's instantly.
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Apr 24, 2020 11:39
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I mean, that's an issue if firearms aren't the primary instrument of violence also. In real life not many people can get stabbed with a dagger and remain alive for long, even though the rules say they only do 1d4 damage. The problem is that people are fine with a fantasy game abandoning realistic and (for most purposes) punishing and unfun wound simulation but seem to expect otherwise from a science-fiction game. Possibly because people are more familiar with the actual real-world lethality of guns than they are with swords.
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Apr 24, 2020 11:59
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  The major hindrance in venturing to the siren’s forgotten city is that it’s well, forgotten. And also several hundred feet below sea level, but prior contacts can help with the latter should they lack the means of breathing water themselves. Fortunately for the former, one of Narsus’ siren attendants has an undersea map to the place! This chapter takes place entirely underwater, and we get a handy repeat of rules for combat changed by this: to sum things up, fire attacks deal half damage and an assload of weapons have disadvantage on attack rolls. The city itself is several hundred feet below sea level, and a civilization of merfolk now live among the ruins. Said merfolk are at war with a group of merrow who came from a nearby abyssal trench known as the Chasm. A great monster known as Scylla lives at its bottom, and the merrow take captives to sink corpses down there for sacrifices. It won’t be long before the merfolk petition the PCs to save their people. The merfolk worship a group of empyreans as gods, who live within the shrines of the Temple District. They are capable of great feats of might and magic but are unable to leave the confines of their respective temples. The key to their freedom lies with the death of Scylla, a task the merfolk have yet to perform. Said empyreans will be quite helpful to the party, explaining that Scylla ate the artifact in which they seek and will butter up the PCs: they’ll speak of how they were once a lost pantheon, but feel that Thylea’s fate is bright in the party’s capable hands. To better seal the deal, each empyrean has a unique gift for one PC, ranging from a monstrous companion to fight at their side to magic items and boons. Some of the empyreans have higher standards than others, and demand some kind of trial. The empyreans are liars. You see, there was once a great angel by the name of Phaeros who was exiled by his kind for believing that godhood is a right for all mortals. He sought to find a more worthy pantheon than the reigning titans of Sydon and Lutheria, so he visited the city of the sirens to find those he believed could challenge their reign. From there, he made a new pantheon of empyreans. The titan twins learned of this and asked their father Kentimane to unleash Scylla upon the city. Together with their mortal armies, they sunk the realm beneath the waves while Lutheria tricked the empyreans into being cursed to never leave their sunkern temples. Phaeros and the Promethean Fire were swallowed by Scylla, their only means of breaking the curse of imprisonment. This forgotten pantheon has grown mad in the passing millennia and seek vengeance upon those they believe abandoned them: said criteria includes all mortalkind. The empyreans are all evil alignment save for one Chaotic Neutral crazy trickster god, and their gifts are twisted such that they will turn against the party: boons and magic items become curses, while companions fly into a rage and attack. However, none of the empyreans have means of magically concealing their alignment, meaning that the PCs may very well spurn their aid and reconsider the whole Scylla-killing business if the party contains...oh, let’s say a Paladin who realizes that empyrean after empyrean is radiating big honking gobs of Evil! The merrow seized a fortress in the city which has 40 of their rnumber along with a coven of 3 sea hags, and there are various other small locations the PCs can explore in the city itself although most of it is free of danger and mostly role-play.  The Chasm is a 2-mile deep pit with three broad layers. The Upper Reaches are barely lit and home to most typical sea life. The Void is halfway down and completely dark, home to gigantic primordial creatures and a tribe of ichthys.* The very bottom of the Chasm is a cavernous floor covered with the corpses of whales, merfolk, and other things that drifted down to the bottom. Tunnels and trenches hold portals to the Nether Sea at this depth. *like centaurs but evil and with lower halves of lobsters. One of the set-piece encounters is a nest of 36 sharks of the giant and cetus varieties asleep on a sandy ledge in the Void, and the adventure notes that waking the creatures will be suicidal for the PCs. Now I know that 5th Edition’s bounded accuracy makes it so that hordes of monsters can be dangerous even at the highest of levels, but there’s something...tonally dissonant about the whole affair. In prior chapters the party killed gods, possibly besieged a city of Spartan look-alikes with a Colossus protector, and did many other heroic deeds. But the adventure assumes that a nest of sharks is where they draw the line and decide that discretion is the better part of valor. Scylla is the Boss Monster of this adventure, and she is a creepy, screaming bloated mass with six canine heads connected by serpentine necks. She is a tough cookie, on par with Sydon and Lutheria statwise but with slightly worse saves and no spells. Her primary means of attacks are her many biting heads and tentacles, and she can sing an AoE dirge that charms those who fail a Wisdom save which can also be done as one of her legendary actions (the others being bonus attacks and movement). Once the PCs kill her, Phaeros will cut his way out of the corpse, holding a blue orb of fire in one hand: the Promethean Fire. He will praise the PCs for freeing him, and mention that he must now complete his sacred task and ‘restore the rightful pantheon of Thylea.’ What he means is that he will use the Promethean Fire to free the empyreans; he will fly up out of the chasm while ignoring any attacks directed at him. The adventure assumes that the PCs will be unable to catch up to him even though spells like Dimension Door are easily a thing at this part in the plot. When the PCs reach the Sunken City he will suddenly turn on the party once the emypreans are free, proclaiming them to be blasphemers for trying to use the artifacts to become gods themselves. How would he know this unless they spilled the beans to the empyreans? Also, isn't this contradictory to his earlier ideology of spreading the god-wealth around? The adventure says he does this due to fear that he may challenge the empyreans' right to rule, but otherwise makes no mention of how and why he changed his ideals over time. The PCs can gain the Promethean Fire from Phaeros after killing him, and the empyreans will feign ignorance and claim that the angel must have gone crazy from time spent being digested. They will pretend to leave Thylea forever, but in reality seek to learn of the land and rebuild their strength for the coming time of vengeance. But at least the PCs have all 3 artifacts now. They should be able to challenge these empyreans as God-to-God for a thrilling climax, right? Wellllll, about that...I took a look at the rules for the Theogenesis ritual and contrasted it with the expected experience levels at certain points in the adventure path:    If the PCs didn’t want to strangle Narsus before, they almost certainly will want to do so now. Thoughts So Far: I’m beginning to see a recurring theme in this third act of the PCs managing to make things worse in their quest for godhood. While the Aresian campaign could be averted, the Sunken Kingdom is far more railroady in its expectations and resolution. It presumes that the PCs will take the empyreans at their word, be unable to intercept Phaeros before he frees said empyreans, and then kill Phaeros anyway after the deed is done. The backstory is something the PCs have no real chance of finding out, so it’s very much in the style of Paizo’s adventure paths which give enemy NPCs detailed write-ups that most players are never going to learn. Contrast this to that of Sydon and Lutheria, or the legacy of the Dragonlords, or even the kidnapping of Narsus and the Aresian Campaigns. Odyssey has been rather good in giving opportunities for the PCs to learn of the world’s past and how that affects their current adventures, but this chapter only works if the party is kept in the dark about as much as possible for as long as possible. Join us next time as we wrap up the conclusion to this adventure path in Chapter 12, Apokalypsis! Libertad! fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 24, 2020 12:55
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Libertad! posted:I’m beginning to see a recurring theme in this third act of the PCs managing to make things worse in their quest for godhood. To be fair, this theme is extremely Greek.
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Apr 24, 2020 13:09
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Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e: Plundered Vaults Learning about sausage, failure, and red herrings One minor departure from the normal rules, but I don't think it'll hurt anything much: I'm going to be using my house-rule that a Quarterstaff wielded on its own can free-parry. They already completely suck as weapons (SB-2, Defensive, Pummeling), Karl really isn't a warrior of any kind, but this way the poor kid can keep his blood on the inside. Just a small thing that makes it easier for Shallyans not to die even if they're still not going to contribute outside of healing in combat. One of my favorite little sidebars in WHFRP is 'you all meet in a tavern', where it says 'well yeah, probably, people go to taverns to meet people'. Our heroes met in a tavern in Nuln. Gilbert is picking the last few zombie bits off his gear (hey, he found Nuln eventually! So what if he got lost in Sylvania?), Elena's just come up through the crazy river route that runs under the mountains (and required her to go through Tilea), Vendrick has 'just happened' to sit at the team's table and tried to get himself recruited, Ulrike is thinking she's found a suitable group of companions, and Karl's attached himself and convinced the others to come with him because every team needs a doctor (no matter how much the elf tries to say he knows 'superior elven herbal techniques'). Karl may be a Shallyan, but he's also been in a hellwomb full of mutated spiders before; guy knows that you want to have a few strong fighters along in your travels to 'help carry the food' because the world is a dangerous as hell place. More importantly, it's wurstfest. There's sausage everywhere. In the midst of getting the elf to try human sausage (he claims to hate it but won't stop eating it, claiming he's just trying to understand how humans can do this) and having a few beers (Gilbert is astonished to discover there's a land where beer is drinkable) they also realize none of them have any money (they spent it all traveling here, getting geared up, etc). Talking their way into an IOU to avoid washing dishes for a couple days, they've only got a week to find some money and pay off their bills. Meaning they need work, and it needs to be in Nuln. Thankfully, Karl can read, so they can head to the Reikplatz and let him read some job listings without paying a university student to read for them. A couple look promising, but only one of them is going to lead to the adventure where they investigate a kidnapping, a cultist of Nurgle, and a magic opera singer with a power that's going to give Karl PTSD flashbacks. This adventure is 'designed to teach players who play more generic fantasy RPGs what Warhammer is like'. With that kind of intro, we know we're in for a good time (good time not included). The first job they investigate is one finding a cute little lost puppy dog; it sounds easy enough and Ulrike loves dogs. When they go to look into it and ask for 'Zimmerman' at a nearby inn, the locals get mad as hell; the notice is a hoax by someone who doesn't like this inn, and the inn has gotten extremely sick of vagrant adventurers coming by to ask about 'the job'. Ulrike has Sixth Sense (called out in the adventure) and so can immediately tell trouble's coming. Comedy trouble. The innkeep motions for someone to do something to the team outside the inn and she neatly sidesteps a moment before someone empties a chamberpot out the window from the second story. She glares at the innkeeper, her perfect hair blowing in the wind, completely untouched, then turns and tells the team to go. On their way back through the Reikplatz, they run into a preacher of Sigmar who exists to try to warn PCs that fighting and being tough won't be the only thing that helps them through the adventure. Lots of shouting about how corruption is everywhere and weapons and armor won't save them. Gilbert remarks that might be true for Imperials, but the Lady guides his sword. Karl gently shuffles him to the back before he causes a scene. Karl knows how loving crazy Sigmarites are. The preacher also dresses down a young woman for 'being too immodest' and 'weakening us all'. This is actually important; a Per test tells them where she went. They'll need her as a witness later, though they have no need to question her right now. Next they follow up on some stolen earrings, talking to a Sylvanian woman (who is not a vampire) about her lost pearl earrings. Another red herring, but not quite; this will actually matter later. There's also another note up asking for laborers, but they're on this path to avoid being stuck washing dishes for a few days, so honest work isn't their thing. The entire first day of this adventure is meant to be wasted with the red herrings and color encounters, so I guess it is preparing you for a career with Warhams published adventures after all. Finally, they get to the actual plot note, but can't go deal with it until sometime before noon the next day. A prosperous butcher named Fleischer, who is a prominent donor to the temples of Shallya and whose business has been growing better and better these days, needs some help with 'a delicate matter'. It sounds urgent, so they head out to see what's up. It also promises a lot of money. Fleischer's daughter Hanna has gone missing, and really Warhammer Published Adventures just seem to be a bad place to be named Hanna. Hanna has been missing for 3 days, and her father fears something has happened to her; he's worried enough to offer 5 gold crowns apiece up front, plus 25 each if they can find her. A heck of a lot of money, and more than enough to cover their tabs. Gossip tests are necessary to help calm the anxious man and get him to give more detail than 'daughter missing, please find'. Karl knows how to deal with frightened people and manages to calm him down, getting him to tell them Hanna was last seen with her friend Carla on her way to her favorite restaurant, that they could ask around his 3 shops to see if anyone missed anything, and that Hanna has a locket just like his. He gives them one with a picture of her so they know what their target looks like. Gilbert remarks that rescuing maidens in distress is obviously a good task for a Bretonnian knight, and Vendrick shrugs and says it will be easy to find her; he's an elven tracker, after all. Elena is a little more doubtful, having experience with how hard it can be to find someone in a city. If PCs don't take the job, of course, they'll be railroaded into it by being forced to save Herr Fleischer from muggers and getting offered the job afterwards. Elena's an experienced manhunter, and hunting for a probable kidnapping victim and possible runaway isn't that different from going after a fugitive, so she takes the lead. Fleicher's neighbor will tell them an awful lot about Hanna's business, provided a gallant gentleman escorts her to the new Bretonnian restaurant that just opened up and the party pays for a dinner. Gilbert volunteers, but Frau Garten is originally suspicious, thinking his mustache must be fake (he is rather young to have such an enormous mustache) because 'everyone knows Bretonnian knights'. He's confused by this, but persists. The restaurant is a money-sink but contains some further clues, so hey. And Frau Garten's info is actually very good: She's able to tell the heroes that Hanna was seeing a young man named Hans who worked at the glassworks, but that a rival suitor in 'a big hat and concealing cloak' was singing under her window for three nights before she vanished. This is insanely suspicious. This is good info, but needs confirmation. They have until 6 PM for their dinner date, so they get to work on the investigation before then. First stop is Otto's Glassworks. A boyfriend worried about a rival is the first person who might have a hint of a motive for kidnapping or violence, after all. Hans admits to the team he's been seeing Hanna in secret for 3 months, and that he was worried because Hanna was being serenaded by another suitor, but he's even more worried that she's missing. Maybe she's run off with this other suitor? They split up and go to ask around, looking for rumors but also visiting the 3 sausage shops. None have a lot of information. One thing I will give this adventure: I do like the little 'key information' inserts after each scene, pointing out the main things PCs can learn there. It's a nice little bit of information for a GM, and leaves you a little more free to write your own flavor text. From asking around here, they learn where Carla lives (Hanna's best friend), that Fleischer had a competitor named Stark whose business has collapsed completely, and that one of the shops has recently been broken into. As they're asking around for rumors, a shilling tossed to a street urchin gets them another important detail: The person singing to Hanna wasn't a man. Was dressed as one, sure, and trying to make her voice sound like one, but was definitely a lady. Vendrick wonders if that means it wasn't a Bretonnian. Gilbert glares at him. Karl tosses the kid a second shilling for the help and tells him to go get something to eat. The children mock Vendrick's ears (book notes they make fun of elves) for being huge, but as to an elf this is an immense compliment, the Asrai just thinks they recognize his superiority and gives them a third shilling. The kids mention the girl singing for Hanna seemed to be Tilean. Elena is INSTANTLY SUSPICIOUS. Bloody Tileans. Did you know those bastards have the temerity to pretend Myrmidia was Tilean and not Estalian like everyone knows? If the team didn't, they do now, as she goes on about it for a good five minutes as they move on. So, after their first while asking around, the protagonists have a break-in to investigate (it might be related, especially if someone dislikes Herr Fleischer and is trying to hurt him), a Tilean songstress who is apparently singing outside of a young woman's window moments before she disappeared, and the name of a man who probably hates Herr Fleischer. When they go talk to the proprietor about the break-in, they learn whoever's been breaking in doesn't take anything. They just seem to be using the sausage grinder. There's blood and bits of meat left behind, but nothing is ever taken. They go to check it out. When they reach the shed with the sausage grinder, they sadly don't have Magical Sense. For once, it would have been useful. Otherwise, they find hundreds of links of sausage preserving in here, but eight very fresh ones, made within the last day. Next to them sits a strange discovery: Hanna's locket. There's a bunch of red herrings here (like one of the shopworker's fake legs, since he's down a leg, which is designed to cost PCs a Sanity point for some reason since they might think it's Hanna's and she's been ground into sausage) but the heroes take the 8 sausages near the locket, wondering if they're a clue. Maybe there's a reason the locket was next to them. So someone has definitely kidnapped Hanna at the very least. Someone who is making sausages. A reasonable group might honestly go see this 'Stark' fellow about this at this point. I mean, a rival sausagemaker with reason to dislike Fleischer? They have cause, though no real evidence. They also go talk to Hanna's friend, and learn that she was last seen at the restaurant with her, and that there was a beautiful Tilean soprano singing that day. The day Hanna disappeared. Again, this is some pretty heavy-handed 'hey this sounds like the kidnapper'. They basically have what they need to zero in on Stark, who you've probably guessed is the main villain, but there's a lot more rumormongering to do first. Oh, and eventually the urchins come back and just straight tell them where Hanna is so all this investigating doesn't matter much. Yep, you run around wasting time for a long while, get clues that give you enough information to start coming up with your own plans, and then the plot just tells you the answer. Great investigative gameplay, guys. But before that, our heroes have a date with an old woman and a meal at a nice Bretonnian restaurant. Where a beautiful Tilean soprano is singing that night. There's also rumors of thefts of jewelry at the self-same restaurant. They don't actually see her perform this night, but the dinner's excellent (and eats a crown from each of them; Gilbert is astonished at how much Bretonnian food costs outside of Bretonnia but at least they have 'real' wine and not all these Imperial Reislings) and gets them an audience with the chef when one of his countrymen wants to compliment him. Louis can tell them more about Mira della Miragliano, the Tilean Song Bird. She loves performing at small restaurants like this. Ones that coincidentally seem to have jewelry go missing after she sings. People in Warhams can have pretty poor senses of pattern recognition. They also look into the last place Hanna was seen, and don't find much; though they do recognize the woman who was harassed by the street preacher. On talking to her a bit, they manage to accidentally get her to break down and admit she's seen Maria stealing jewelry and helps her on the heists (and that she actually had the pair of earrings from earlier! And pawned them. They'll check the pawn shops later and see if they can point them out to that Sylvanian, no reason not to get paid again) which is enough for Elena. They'll bring the Tilean in for questioning as soon as they find her. Two drunk young nobles address the team and ask them to find their buddy Rudi, who disappeared with a bunch of sausages. Being drunk and stupid and rich, they toss the PCs 10 crowns to 'keep an eye out'. They most certainly well, thankful the windfall bought their excellent dinner a few hours ago. A lot of this is...fine enough at this point? A little dull. The fact that the adventure just kinda solves itself a minute after they put all of this together puts a huge damper on it. It gets worse. The denouement of this adventure really sucks, though Stark actually having a motive that will lead PCs to go bother him is really helpful. The missing buddy Rudi is going to be important, I'm sure you can tell. The clues aren't just heavy handed, though, they're obvious. You won't need to do any real thinking to solve this mystery, especially as it solves itself, which aside from other problems that are coming really screws the adventure. Next Time: Singing. Sausage. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD MAAAAAN
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Apr 24, 2020 16:19
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Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e: Plundered Vaults I THREW IT ON THE GROUND The heroes know Stark is probably up to something. They have no direct evidence, so they head to the source to go question the man. Stark is a very stupid and very evil man. He's intended to be; he's a bitter, petulant fat jackass of a butcher who blames everyone but himself for everything and obsesses constantly about 'getting even'. It is quite possible to confront Stark here if you're certain, and he'll absolutely prove you right, releasing a mutant minion to attack you and starting the climax immediately, but our heroes aren't that violent. He mentions to the heroes he had a spat with a boy named Rudi but 'has since apologized' and that sure, he dislikes Fleischer but he's 'a busy man with no time for feuds'. Karl asks about the matter of his wife, and Stark gets angry and throws them out of the shop. They leave for the moment, leaving Vendrick to quietly watch the shop, and he sees Stark pass a note to an urchin. The same urchins the PCs paid well earlier! Now, the urchins will find you to sell you the note regardless of if you see this. This is what I mean when I say what you do doesn't matter. The threatening letter says 'don't expect to see your daughter again, you're to blame for all of this, EXPECT MY VENGEANCE'. Our heroes are about to storm in and get Stark arrested when the urchin mentions Stark has been bringing sausages to a specific hovel over and over again. Karl stops his allies and points out that might be where Hanna is held, and her life might be at stake if they don't move fast. They agree to come back and deal with Stark after they rescue Hanna. Naturally, Hanna is within the shed and has begun to mutate, beginning to look like a Plaguebearer of Nurgle from the mutagenic sausages. Karl has a brief flashback episode but stops himself when he hears the young girl begging for Shallya's mercy and gets to work, checking her condition as his friends stare a little. Hanna naturally causes an IP to look at if you fail WP, because IP is loving everywhere. Remember: You only need 6 to threaten to take your PC out. I know I say this a lot, but gently caress the Insanity system. Hanna is able to tell them she was lured here by magical songs, by a woman who looked to be in a trance, and Karl confirms she might be treatable. You're meant to struggle to get Hanna to the Temple of Shallya and leave her with them, with their promise they can help her. Vendrick suggests they just put the 'warped human' out of her misery. He realizes he shouldn't have said that when the young Shallyan's hand tightens on his staff, trying to fight down the urge to smack the elf with it, and sighs and says he'll go along with whatever the lumberfoots do. They turn her over to the Sigmarites after a few weeks of trying to treat her and they kill her. Your PCs never actually learn this. It's presented with 'In a fairytale, Hanna Fleischer would have beaten her transformation with the help of the Shallyans, married Hans, and gone back to her loving father. This isn't a fairy tale!' and that was the thing that nearly made me not bother. It's the sheer triumphal little 'BTW she dies in a fire after all the work you did getting her to people who said they could help, WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD MAAAAAN' note in the finale that pissed me off, along with the detail of the heroes actually having to take a bunch of effort to get her to treatment in the first place. It's also never even something the PCs would learn themselves; it's totally irrelevant. It's solely there because the writers think it's important to put in there 'by the way, welcome to Warhammer Adventures, where you never succeed at anything' as part of this being the 'good introduction' to the setting. So yeah, gently caress that part. A Cure Disease spell will cancel the transformation's progress and she slowly recovers with a few weeks of surgery and work. Meanwhile, our heroes are off to put an arrow in Stark's throat. The problem is going to rescue Hanna gave Stark time to prepare. He's set up a trap to make his little dog both alert him when they come back, but also drop some mutagenic sausage for the dog to eat. He plans to turn his dog into a plague-bearing monster to distract the heroes, and to force Maria to come cover his escape. The heroes have no way of knowing he has a magic amulet that lets him 'control mutants'. Maria has a voice that can put people in a trance. Stark has been forcing her to help him; she's a thief, but she doesn't want to hurt anyone. As soon as the heroes trigger the trap and see the dog go for the sausage, Ulrike reacts like lightning, chasing off after the dog. In a short extended Agility test (12 rounds to succeed, one test a round, have to get 6 DoS to succeed) she catches the dog and her excellent WS lets her steal the sausage from the poor thing, saving him and keeping him from infecting the city. The others go after Stark, Ulrike trying to catch up. As they try to charge him, he yells RUDI ATTACK. The team realizes what that means just as Rudi the mutated noble lad comes ambling out of the back of the shop, tentacles swinging. Rudi is a fairly tough guy, but a very manageable first boss. He's the first actual fight of the scenario, Stark's amulet forcing him to do his bidding. Rudi's tough (TB 5) but unarmored, but has a -10 WS flie aura that causes some trouble. He's also got a 45 WS and SB 4, and 2 attacks. His real problem is he's Frightening. A rookie team doesn't have great WP. Still, he's an easy fight for the heroes, going down to a mixture of Vendrick's arrows, being entangled in Elena's whip, and hacked apart by Gilbert's sword. The fight gives Ulrike time to catch up, and they chase after Stark into the sewers. Why are these assholes always in the sewers...? On the way, Stark's apprentice Willi pops up with a crossbow ambush, narrowly missing Vendrick's ear before getting an elfbow shot in the leg, getting hit in the arm while reloading, and then taking a shot to the throat before he can fire his crossbow again. He's supposed to be hard to shoot back at since he's in the dark, but elfs have Nightsight and Vendrick is a hell of a shot with a weapon that counts as Best. The rest of the team corners Stark where he's planning to escape into the river by barge, and he's tied Maria to the mast. He forces her to sing. It's WP-10 or be stunned until you can make a WP-10 roll, and Karl starts freaking out as he realizes what kind of mutation Maria has. With the rest of the team stunned (even with Fortune), only Ulrike's powerful will pulls her through. Stark raves about how Fleicher killed his wife by being better at business than him so he didn't have the money to have her healed. He screams that he had to kill the doctor because he failed to save Stark's wife. He rants about everything that's gone wrong and how it's everyone's fault and he'll feed Nurgle's children to the world and then Ulrike parries aside his cleaver and hacks his hand off with her axe. Stark is an absolutely pathetic fighter; a fat, evil old man with a butcher's cleaver is no match for a knight of the White Wolf. Even one who isn't a knight yet. As soon as he loses the amulet (with his hand), Maria stops singing. He's bled out before Karl can recover and stop the bleeding. The adventure assumes you kill Stark here. Ulrike smashes the amulet with the axe blade, and Karl unties Maria. Elena mentions there's almost certainly a bounty on her, but it's also clear Maria was forced into helping. They agree to let her go, though Karl gives her a lecture about how such powers will only ever lead to utter misery and she should stop using them immediately. Doing this gets them a friend for life. Maria will, if you do this, be available as a contact and ally who will help the PCs with capers and thefts and things in Nuln in the future. She's not evil, just a criminal, and she's happy to help the people who let her live and didn't hand her over to the Hunters. And grateful they killed the evil butcher who was forcing her to do awful things. They also take 20 gold crowns and a note mentioning there are more Nurglites in Altdorf off of Stark, something they'll give to the Hunters or something later since there's no adventure attached to it and they're only doing these adventures. Finally, Herr Fleischer pays them 25 each (and 10 for expenses and his gratitude) for saving his daughter, or at least getting her to treatment. So in the end, there's nothing wrong balance wise. It's a reasonable adventure on that score, though it's notable that the heroes don't actually use skills or character abilities much. You mostly get led around by the clues. It's pretty dull, and the urchins just solving the adventure for you no matter what happens kills it. Maria is an extra element too many, too, though I do like the conclusion where leaving her alive and letting her go really does help the PCs out. The extra little bit about 'this is no fairytale, boy!' is the kind of smug 'WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD' BS I hate, though, and this is the intended 'intro' to Warhammer as a setting. It's not a good one. At least you get paid. Our heroes also get paid with a full pound of fine Nuln Wurst in addition. After making drat sure any tainted sausage is destroyed, they've had a pretty good day. Stark was obviously planning to get Fleischer burned for 'infecting' so many people and to frame him as the Nurglite. Still, they've paid off their debts in Nuln, and have a pretty nice nest egg for the moment. It's time to travel in style this time, taking a carriage towards Carroburg. Unfortunately for them (well, quite fortunately, actually) they're then attacked by team of flying, screaming skulls that overturn the carriage and send them and the other passengers tumbling. What the gently caress was that!? Next Time: Jinkies! It's the cask of Amontillado! Plus metal flaming screaming skulls!
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Apr 24, 2020 17:40
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Night10194 posted:Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e: Plundered Vaults Questions. First, if you're meant to get Hanna to the Temple of Shallya, why do "they" turn her over to the Sigmarites instead? Because I can see how turning her over to the Sigmarites would end with her death. Second, the gently caress YOU! WELCOME TO THE REAL FANTASY WORLD, MAAAAN! is actually conveyed much better by the "For Love or Money" adventure which has horrible beings victimizing an innocent person who can't be saved,* just avenged. Plus, the PCs get to meet this person and probably like her before the Warshithammer falls. Also, the adventure doesn't say the "real fantasy world" poo poo "out loud." It's much more "show instead of tell" which is far more effective. *Or can they? While the adventure says "no" I supposed some combination of Cure Disease, Golden Tears and/or Purify might do the trick. Though it's unlikely most parties going through that adventure will have those miracles available to them at the time they'd need it. Everyone fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Apr 24, 2020 |
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Apr 24, 2020 18:37
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Everyone posted:Questions. First, if you're meant to get Hanna to the Temple of Shallya, why do "they" turn her over to the Sigmarites instead? Love or Money is also going to be unhappy times, yes. I mean that the Shallyans turn her over after they discover they can't treat her. One of the consistent weird things in WHFRP is they keep talking about 'treating' mutation, but outside of getting extra bits lopped off with Surgery there's never any rules or methods for doing it. Just a few very powerful spells like the Kislevite Hags can do. The thing that gets me in Sing for your Supper is there's no contact with the PCs in that little ending epilogue. There's no reason they'd ever even learn of that. It's just there because 'this is your first adventure, so we should tell you all that work you did didn't matter outside of your getting paid'. I will say Stark actually having a motive and having done what he did because he's a spiteful rear end in a top hat (and the heroes catching him in part thanks to his motive) is a step up. If it weren't for the adventure solving itself that would be a good bit of investigative play. Though it also wouldn't prepare you for the majority of Hams villains since they don't usually have discernible motives that would help you catch them. Also, combats being limited and relatively easy is important for a 1st adventure. PCs really can't handle large numbers early and having one gribbly but not that dangerous miniboss then a fight with a fairly easy thug and an idiot butcher (with the kink of Maria's voice, but any attack or attempt to knock the amulet out of Stark's hand stops her singing and frees any stuck PC) is decent for an early mandatory combat. Mechanically, Sing for your Supper is fine. Most of the adventures in this book are mechanically fine, nothing as insane as Knightfight. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Apr 24, 2020 |
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Apr 24, 2020 18:41
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Night10194 posted:Love or Money is also going to be unhappy times, yes. I mean that the Shallyans turn her over after they discover they can't treat her. "Love or Money is less than pleasant, but at least it's less than pleasant in reasonable ways. The "father" is a horrible gently caress, but there's a logic to what he's doing. He promised something to the Skaven. They'll worse-than-kill-him if he cheats them. So, he buys/adopts a disposal test subject from an orphanage and gets to work. Granted that the "Chaos makes you dummbbbb" bit is in effect because he intends to betray the scary-rear end rat monsters instead of paying them off and then cutting further deals with them for reliable quantities of warpstone I did like that Julianne was a real person who came across as an innocent victim the PCs should try to help and that her transformation came off as tragic instead of the usual "...once lovely woman with perfect naked breasts that have, like snakes and poo poo (as in real bits of fecal matter) coming out of her nipples." Pretend beautiful women getting disfigured 'cause real beautiful women won't gently caress us is tight, amiright, fellas? Night10194 posted:One of the consistent weird things in WHFRP is they keep talking about 'treating' mutation, but outside of getting extra bits lopped off with Surgery there's never any rules or methods for doing it. Just a few very powerful spells like the Kislevite Hags can do. Well, some mutations can be "treated" with Heal and the Surgery talent via, "Wow, that tentacle growing out of your back looks really gross. So, lie down, bite on this leather and I'll chopping that fucker off for you. This is gonna hurt. A lot." However, even a High Priestess of Shallya is going to have trouble with "Okie-dokie, so, your head is now a fleshless wolf skull that is also permanently on fire. They, uh, they didn't really cover that in my initiation..." Honestly the Colleges of Magic could do worse than to go to Kislev and beg on bended knee for some Hag-mothers and Ice Witches to come to the Empire and create Colleges Nine and Ten so that women, at least could learn magic that didn't have "summon a greater daemon" or "nuke a city block" as possible side effects. Hell, the first time a Hag-mother actually cures a real Mutation with bear piss should make that happen ASAP. Everyone fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Apr 24, 2020 |
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Apr 24, 2020 22:36
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The thing is, if the epilogue of 'what happens to her' isn't there, nothing changes but the actual read through gets much better! 'Okay, you leave her with the Shallyans, they say they'll do their best' and then just drop it. Let the GM figure it out from there if the party really cares.
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Apr 24, 2020 22:51
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Mors Rattus posted:The thing is, if the epilogue of 'what happens to her' isn't there, nothing changes but the actual read through gets much better! 'Okay, you leave her with the Shallyans, they say they'll do their best' and then just drop it. Let the GM figure it out from there if the party really cares. This is precisely why it left such a huge bad taste for me when I first read it, and still does. It's a situation specifically set up with a gameplay challenge (get her to the Shallyans without zealots or shocked mobs getting mad at you, or bring them to her) that ends with 'They thank you for the risks you took and promise to do all they can'. Then ends with 'BTW, this game is GRITTY and REAL so she dies in a fire' after the full conclusion of the adventure. Just delete that bit and make it up to the group, or leave it open for them not to care since they got their money and did everything they reasonably could (which is also a perfectly good 'gritty, real' take; you did everything you were hired for, you tried your best, it isn't your problem what happens from here and you still get paid for it) and the adventure reads and plays better. It's only there to try to enforce 'this is how warhams works, you fail in the end all the time' and does it in a very artificial way.
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Apr 24, 2020 22:57
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So I happened to buy the WFRP 4e starter set, and guess how the intro adventure starts? A corrupt militia commander frames you for starting a riot and forces you into the adventure
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Apr 24, 2020 23:00
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Not a single one of these adventures starts with you accused of crimes you didn't commit and forced into the adventure, so there is that.
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Apr 24, 2020 23:01
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Night10194 posted:Not a single one of these adventures starts with you accused of crimes you didn't commit and forced into the adventure, so there is that. So you're saying that these are actually poor reflection of how the REALLY GRITTY REALISTIC FANTASY WORLD works, yes? Oh and for those who care, which might be you, here's a pdf of Tetsubo which was basically Warhammer set in Old World Japan. It was rejected by GW but you might find it interesting.
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Apr 24, 2020 23:53
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I don't get the obsession with writers feeling the need to force player characters into an adventure. All other things being equal, the players around a table are here to play out an adventure and will seek one out when the opportunity presents itself.
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Apr 25, 2020 00:11
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What's always weird to me is how often the doomed character is an innocent young woman. By contrast, there's another adventure in here that has a situation like Katarine from Thousand Thrones except she's outright meant to help you and join temporarily, she's actually kind of necessary (on one route), has her own agency, and is even actually supposed to join the party the way Katarine did in TTT IF the players want her or need a new PC.
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Apr 25, 2020 00:13
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Cythereal posted:I don't get the obsession with writers feeling the need to force player characters into an adventure. I mean seriously, how badly do you have to screw up to have your players not take quest hooks? I've got my players taking hooks I haven't even tried to offer them and needing to improvise even more adventure than planned as a result. Players want adventure and to get involved in weird, violent and profitable things, that's their natural adjustment in 99% of all cases.
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Apr 25, 2020 00:14
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Cythereal posted:To be fair, this theme is extremely Greek. Quite, although it a.) requires some buy-in from the group ahead of time, b.) is a rather large departure from the previous chapters and c.) is quite railroady in how it mandates both how the PCs act and not act.
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Apr 25, 2020 00:20
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Night10194 posted:What's always weird to me is how often the doomed character is an innocent young woman. Gotta bring the GRIMDARK somehow. PurpleXVI posted:
I think it's part of the weird "realism" (bit not really) bent of so-called "gritty" games. Like, no sane person would willingly do the kind of stuff the PCs end up doing, so they need to be forced into it. I mean, as a GM, my take on PCs poo-pooing my adventure hooks would be to just look up at the players and go, "Guys, this is the adventure I prepared. I got nothing else. Either your characters do this, or you can all gently caress off back to your homes until next week and I'll play some on RPoL. Up to you." Forcing characters to do things just seems like bullshit power play to me - unless there's something in there where they can gently caress over/destroy whoever was forcing them to do this.
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Apr 25, 2020 00:49
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I suspect they're finding they have to force players because the player testers are sick of the bullshit they get for trying to engage with the game.
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Apr 25, 2020 00:58
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Regarding more Odyssey of the Dragonlords plot holes: Additionally, someone over on RPGnet pointed out that Phaeros attacking the PCs for wanting godhood themselves is contradictory to his earlier message, so I edited in a new sentence pointing this out after "spilled the beans to the empyreans" section. As to why, he's worried that the PCs may challenge his pantheon's right to rule.
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Apr 25, 2020 01:01
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Robindaybird posted:I suspect they're finding they have to force players because the player testers are sick of the bullshit they get for trying to engage with the game. Playtesting adventures is...well, I suspect it didn't happen a lot.
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Apr 25, 2020 01:04
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Robindaybird posted:I suspect they're finding they have to force players because the player testers are sick of the bullshit they get for trying to engage with the game. Or it may be Schwalb's group specifically likes that. That's been one of my theories about Thousand Crowns in general. Schwalb was writing it mostly for his particular gaming group and what they specifically like and how they play. Every group is different, and a good DM adjusts their games to best suit what their group likes and how they like to play. I have no doubt that Thousand Crowns does appeal to some people, and it would make sense if Schwalb's main/only group does, and he either tried and failed to account for the fact that other groups may be very different, or he never bothered (I think the second is more likely). His writing gives me very strong vibes of a DM who's only merely heard about people who like to play in other ways, and regards such behavior as aberrant nonsense to be corrected. After all, his players like how they do things. Whereas my group of friends would probably have quit the whole adventure after rescuing Katarine and taking her with them in search of something fun instead while Katarine becomes a lesbian love interest to one of the women in the party. I can't see them putting up with that adventure's poo poo (both literal and figurative), and I'd probably get a thump on the head for my trouble.
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Apr 25, 2020 01:11
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The main thing that makes me doubt that is how many other authors it had. The other chapters DO feel different; Schwalb's work is most apparent in 1, 5, and 9, though he's co-author on more and editor for all of it. Apparently his co-authoring comes from having rewritten so much as editor that they gave him author credit.
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Apr 25, 2020 01:36
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Everyone posted:Honestly the Colleges of Magic could do worse than to go to Kislev and beg on bended knee for some Hag-mothers and Ice Witches to come to the Empire and create Colleges Nine and Ten so that women, at least could learn magic that didn't have "summon a greater daemon" or "nuke a city block" as possible side effects. Ice magic doesn't work very well outside Kislev and nobody important actually believes the wise women.
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Apr 25, 2020 02:31
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WHFRP 2e really seems like it benefits from long-form scenarios moreso than adventures. Something like Deep Carbon Observatory can work, where there is a general goal to work toward and people to interact with, but no specific plot. Characters are capable of so many different things, it just seems wild to make everything boil down to a linear series of fights that a bunch of armed men make you do for them.
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Apr 25, 2020 02:36
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Which is why stuff like Lure of the Liche Lord is good. Karak Azgal is also like that and will be interesting to cover.
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Apr 25, 2020 02:37
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 3.5: Principalities of Camet So, let’s take a look at the finished political map of the region. The region is almost complete: we have to roll up various monster groups in the area, but that’s it. As a side note, I’d say this stage takes the longest of the four; while it’s not complex, there are a lot of settlements you need to roll up and placement decisions to make. As such I’ll only touch on some of the more interesting settlements here.  This map is… pretty lovely. Oh well, it’ll only get worse from here. County: the County (without an “of” since the death of the last Count) might be the best-armed region in Camet; between multiple coal mines, a massive iron mine, and Camet’s only gunsmith, it has everything an aspiring Prince would need to outfit a military. Instead, Dieter has opted to hunt bandits and monsters. At least for the first time in living memory, the County’s position to flourish – if it’s constituent communities can keep from sniping at each other. No one knows what Dieter would do if civil war breaks out, but as the relatively densely packed villages in the region’s only solid farmland squabble over land rights, they risk attracting his attention if they start to actually fight.
Free City of Volcano Town : though de facto part of the Captaincy to the west, Volcano Town governs itself and its surroundings as a city-state as it has for centuries. Its partial independence is an optics move; given just how wealthy Volcano Town and Shiny Altdorf are independently, formally uniting the two would present enough of a threat that Abelard and Hatshep might drop their feud and come at Abele and Lorenzo in tandem. For now, the two Tilean princes jointly govern the Captaincy while a city council rules Volcano Town in Abele’s name (and collects exorbitant taxes). The principality’s future is uncertain; it might fall to its neighbors to the south, get annexed by its neighbor to the west, find a way to strike out on its own, or fall under some new Prince’s control.
 March of Camet: the March is the oldest continuous governments in Camet and one of the oldest in the Border Princes, tracing back its foundation almost 75 years. Both constrained and protected by its isolated position since the death of the first Marquise, its internal politics are stable and economy robust. But as Chaos outbreaks and mutations grow more common and rumors spread of dark things in St. Laquile, that period of peace might finally be drawing to an end.
Captaincy of the North: between its fertile western region, access to natural resources, and copious amounts of gold, the Captaincy might be the single wealthiest principality in Camet. That doesn’t make it the most prosperous; the Tilean princes aren’t exactly administrators and are more interested in fighting Abelard than making sure their state functions. Camet as a whole has unusually stable governance for the Border Princes, but the Captaincy is a clear exception. Still, as long as they hold the pursestrings of the region and have the strength to back their threats up, Lorenzo and Abele can count on their principality’s support.
 Princedom of New Camer: while the combined Captaincy and Free City might beat it in wealth, the March in prestige, and the County in defensibility, the Princedom outweighs them all in the sheer size and population. Until the rise of the Tilean princes it dominated Camet, and even now has of the resources to keep them on the defensive. It’s even internally cohesive enough to support a small bureaucracy. But that doesn’t make it stable; the cultural divide between the traditionally independent hilly north and the area around New Camer threatens to pull the principality apart even as monsters stalk the countryside [this will show up in the next phase].
The Wizard’s Empire : though traditionally known as the Empire of Giant’s Balls, Hatshep changed the name of the principality when she came to power as she felt it beneath her dignity. She came to power by leading Abelard’s troops to victory over the previous Emperor and deciding to go her own way, and since then she’s had to fend off raids from the Princedom and the Free City looking for revenge or opportunity. Her principality is a fragile one; too isolated to offer easy expansion and to accessible to defend easily, she’s found her Empire a difficult and dangerous land to rule. She may or may not survive long enough to secure it.
Other Settlements
Writing all this up was the most boring part of this review. Rolling it up was just fine, but you can only make up so much text for each tiny settlement. Whatever, it’s over. Next up is lair generation; we’ll be throwing together half a dozen groups of monsters, orcs, and assorted ne’er-do-wells to menace our region with.
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Apr 25, 2020 02:48
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The Lone Badger posted:Ice magic doesn't work very well outside Kislev and nobody important actually believes the wise women. Ice magic is also very likely to injure and/or outright kill the witch if she messes up. If I remember their miscast table right, ice witches skip over all the mutation and insanity side effects and go straight to injuries or death. Ice magic is also implied to be much more physically taxing on the witch than other sorts of magic even when the witch isn't miscasting.
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Apr 25, 2020 02:48
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It will gently caress you the hell up, though. Witches have better combat magic than Bright Wizards. And a warrior-witch (which they can do easily, without all the nonsense Syphan had to for it, since their classes just exit into fighter and captain classes) with their weapon summon is terrifying, since it's about on par with Claws of Fury. There's good reason Chaos warbands are terrified when they find out a Kislevite column has a full Witch with them.
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Apr 25, 2020 03:02
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 This is it, the final chapter of the adventure path! What dire foes await our heroes on their paths to godhood? What came of the new pantheon of empyreans? Well, it turns out that one cannot simply kill the Goddess of Death: Lutheria has been climbing the yugoloth political ladder of Hades to regain her former power. She found a way to prematurely release the Nether Titans, primordial horrors tucked away in those cube-prisons in the Nether Sea. Additionally, she has allied with the Empyreans in helping defeat the PCs...even though she was responsible for imprisoning them in their temples, so these new gods would have to be really stupid to take her at her word again. The empyreans’ motivations have completely changed since the last chapter. Instead of wanting to take revenge and destroy Thylea, they hope that the party will exhaust themselves in fighting the Nether Titans and swoop in to kill them and take the credit for saving Thylea. They will use this as legitimacy to cement themselves as the new pantheon and use the 3 recovered artifacts to help themselves ascend with Lutheria’s aid. So did the empyreans just happen to change their minds upon coming to the surface? Is this poor editing/retcon? Or do they hope to get into positions of leadership and run civilization into the ground via deliberately poor policies? Unsurprisingly, the book doesn’t say. The adventure starts after the recovery of the three artifacts but the passage of time is vague. The party is dropped in media res in taking out remnants of the Order of Sydon. By now their enemies are hilariously underpowered, and this encounter is meant to show off how badass the PCs are in comparison to their earlier quests. You’d think that this is the perfect opportunity for a Nether Titan to show up and wreak havoc, but instead the party gets summoned by Versi the Oracle who is panicking over visions of the Apokalypsis. The four Nether Titans are all powerful, unique monsters. Two are easily recognizable as the Tarrasque and Kraken, but two are new: the Nether Dragon is an ancient red dragon with the shadow dragon template,* and the other is the Behemoth. Each monster is on a path of destruction to one of Thylea’s three major city-states while the fourth is poised to destroy the newly-founded settlements dedicated to the PCs. Unless the party splits up to simultaneously deal with 2 or more Nether Titans at once they will need to make some tough decisions in who to prioritize saving. The first and second cities saved will have quite a bit of casualties but nothing catastrophic, while the third city saved will be half-destroyed. The fourth city will be entirely destroyed by the time the PCs confront the last Nether Titan. *which is not an entry in the core Monster Manual, nor is it in Volo’s Guide to Monsters, Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes, or one of the new monsters in this book, so I have no idea where to find this thing’s stats. Trying to Google search it brings up homebrew material as the primary results. The PCs have opportunities to use high-level magic, skill checks, and call in allied NPCs and resources to help them. The adventure suggests that said resources can help the PCs discover the weakness of these individual monsters and magic items that can prove highly useful against them. The adventure lists where said items are, who has them if applicable, and how willingly their current owners will be to give them up for the good of saving the world. Each monster has suggestions for how to ‘beef up’ the encounter in case the PCs may have too easy a job: the Tarrasque has flying chimera scavengers who worship the creature as a god, the Kraken gets Legendary Resistance to reroll failed saves, the Nether Dragon gets young black and red dragon minions, but the Behemoth has no buffs or reinforcements.  Let’s talk about the Behemoth. It was created at the beginning of the universe by long-forgotten gods who sought to make living weapons capable of killing their rivals. The Behemoth is a titanic horned beast whose very breath brims with the essence of creation, and can disintegrate all but the toughest material with an energy beam emitted from its mouth. If one were to compare it to the Tarrasque, it would be highly similar. It has slightly fewer hit points and a much lower Armor Class (20 vs 25), but it has better mental saving throws and a much higher passive Perception score of 19. Instead of a reflective carapace it has a rechargeable energy breath weapon that is 300 feet long and can do 16d8 necrotic or radiant damage to all creatures and objects affected (objects take double damage due to its Siege Weapon special ability). Finally, one of the uncovered weaknesses mentions that the monster is vulnerable (double damage results) to all forms of damage types, although this is not reflected in its stat block. Which makes me wonder if uncovered weaknesses are meant to be new debuffs applied to the monster’s statistics, but given that the tarrasque and kraken’s weaknesses are already part of their stat blocks (no ranged attacks and not immune to charm magic respectively) this is probably not the case. To further complicate matters, Lutheria and the empyreans will move against the PCs in between their titan-slaying. At first yugoloth servants will attack sometime after the first Nether Titan is defeated, but after the second Lutheria herself will appear leading maenads and goatlings as a dramatic reveal to the PCs. She will talk about how she is eternal and one cannot kill death itself, retreating after having some fun in the fight via teleportation. Which is a spell neither she nor her minions can cast. Finally, three of the empyreans will come to attack the party after the third Nether Titan. At this point it will be clear that the empyreans and Lutheria are responsible. If the PCs are still unsure, they can find this out via divination. These wicked gods-to-be built a majestic palace at the summit of the tallest mountain in Thylea, and it is a very minimalistic dungeon inhabited only by them and possibly the Kraken if it survived.  The empyreans are scattered through the palace, but will come together to fight the PCs in the throne room once they become aware that their sanctum’s been breached. Lutheria swore an oath to use the Theogenesis spell to make the empyreans true gods, but she has plans of her own. The goddess created a sapient Sphere of Annihilation which will grow larger and larger with every empyrean killed, eventually so great that the PCs will notice its presence eating up much of the palace when they kill all but 2-3 of their empyreans who will surrender to the party at this point. Once the final empyrean dies, the sphere will grow to encompass all of the Material Plane and destroy the bodies and souls of everyone within, gods included. The empyreans will plead during the battle for Luetheria to cast the spell, but she’ll merely laugh and even cheer on the PCs. Should the PCs spare the surviving empyreans, Lutheria’s plot is thwarted. The three Furies will appear to announce that Lutheria broke the biggest rule of godhood: never break an oath. With this proclamation she will slowly dissolve into nonexistance, laughing at the irony of being hoist by her own petard. The ending to this adventure path is vague, although there’s a few paragraphs suggesting likely events. The surviving empyreans will swear oaths and become the PCs’ servants for eternity, and the PCs will most assuredly become the greatest rulers of Thylea. If they become the new pantheon of gods, the DM will ask them to write appropriate epilogues for how they became gods as well as appropriate dominions of reality over which they hold sway based on the domains they unlocked. The DM is encouraged to have these former PCs as new gods in future campaigns. Thoughts So Far: I like the idea of the PCs having to make a difficult choice in prioritizing which cities to save, and the use of the tarrasque and kraken as primordial weapons of destruction are thematically appropriate. I wasn’t as fond of the new monsters, given that I have no idea where to find a shadow dragon template and the Behemoth is basically a shell-less Tarrasque without a breath weapon. The use of empyreans as the final battle robs the climactic event of much of its emotional depth; these figures are more or less entirely new characters the PCs only briefly encountered in comparison to older foes. The return of Lutheria makes sense in a divine godly sort of way in that the Goddess of Death would surely not be felled so easily. But given that her destruction is entirely of her own making as opposed to being forced or tricked into it kind of robs the sense of cleverly outsmarting her. The fact that the adventure more or less spells out her plan in an obvious way makes it even less dramatic once found out. Her cheering on the heroes, combined with the last 2-3 empyreans surrendering and telling the party what Lutheria’s up to, is a very obvious metatextual “don’t choose violence or you get a Bad End!” Join us next time as we cover the remaining Appendices!
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Apr 25, 2020 03:08
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