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Hell, as... Disgusting as Stonewater ended up being in both conception and execution, there’s still some kernel of an idea (IF HANDLED WITH ALL DUE SENSITIVITY, which Mookie obviously lacks) of exploring how he was also a victim in that specific situation, but still feels absolutely disgusted with himself for ever going through with it.
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Apr 25, 2020 09:01
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Regalingualius posted:Hell, as... Disgusting as Stonewater ended up being in both conception and execution, there’s still some kernel of an idea (IF HANDLED WITH ALL DUE SENSITIVITY, which Mookie obviously lacks) of exploring how he was also a victim in that specific situation, but still feels absolutely disgusted with himself for ever going through with it. While you've got a point (look up documentaries on African child soldiers if you're interested in these explorations of rape-by-proxy. I believe it was also a tactic employed by the Tonton Macoutes in Haiti,) let's not continue this. Not because you've done anything wrong by bringing it up, but it led to some Bad Stuff in the mock thread at the time I don't want to revisit. Either way, Mookie was obviously not the right person to tell this kind of story, and even if he was, it does not belong in a webcomic with superheroes in the middle of a rock concert.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:42
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Apr 25, 2020 16:00
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Invisible Clergy posted:While you've got a point (look up documentaries on African child soldiers if you're interested in these explorations of rape-by-proxy. I believe it was also a tactic employed by the Tonton Macoutes in Haiti,) let's not continue this. Not because you've done anything wrong by bringing it up, but it led to some Bad Stuff in the mock thread at the time I don't want to revisit. Either way, Mookie was obviously not the right person to tell this kind of story, and even if he was, it does not belong in a webcomic with superheroes in the middle of a rock concert. Oh, no arguments from me; I’d be more than glad to drop this, since I really get uncomfortable around any stories that include elements of sexual violence. But, yeah, that was always what made that strip so jarring, after years of lame puns and forced alliteration jokes.
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Apr 25, 2020 17:37
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I feel like there's gotta be a word for when a cheap gag comic with mediocre art decides it's going to tackle a dark subject like rape or miscarriages all of a sudden like there's the slow mutation into a serious comic that a lot of gag-a-day strips do, and then there's diving head first straight into the most inappropriate topic you can think of for your wacky webcomic
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Apr 25, 2020 18:34
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I think  calls it Cerebus Syndrome. Obviously if you don't know what Cerebus is that explains absolutely nothing.
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Apr 25, 2020 18:44
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My eyes completely glazed over the Patreon announcement and I didn't realize Mookie was revisiting that character. What the hell?  I won't comment on the story. But I'll confess this much: This entire time I had been giving Mookie the benefit of the doubt and believing that he'd actually learned from the past and realized in hindsight how low his writing went. I was giving the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't do something like that again and would just make it the plotline he never talks about anymore, if only to avoid the backlash. I've seen other writers and artists go through an epiphany where they realize they used trauma as cheap plot twists, denounce their old stories, and try to be a better person in the present. And I think it's a good thing for writers to be given room to do that, if they genuinely want to improve themself! But to instead revisit that character in a positive context all these years later is honestly dumbfounding me. So how about those loving cubes, huh. I'm really not sure what to make of this group dynamic now, mostly because I'm not sure if the orc and the witch are simply arguing or if they genuinely want to harm each other. I do not know if this confusion is intentional. MiracleFlare fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 18:59
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Here is Mookie's writing process: Orcs are unjustly persecuted. They're the good guys! Orcs are unjustly persecuted. The kingdom was killing them unjustly! They're the good guys! Orcs are unjustly persecuted. Orc culture treats women as objects. The kingdom was killing them unjustly! They're the good guys! Orcs are unjustly persecuted. Orc culture treats women as objects. Unowned women can be ritually murdered. The kingdom was killing them unjustly! They're the good guys! Orcs are unjustly persecuted. Orc culture treats women as objects. Unowned women can be ritually murdered. They sometimes practice ritualized rape. The kingdom was killing them unjustly! They're the good guys! Orcs are unjustly persecuted. Orc culture treats women as objects. Unowned women can be ritually murdered. They sometimes practice ritualized rape. They're vegetarians. The kingdom was killing them unjustly! They're the good guys! He starts with a premise and whenever he has a "cool idea" he just jams it in, literally ad nauseam, without ever asking "does this fit?" or "how does this change the narrative?" or assessing whether that detail is a worthwhile one to explore.
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Apr 25, 2020 19:38
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I just remembered that he ripped off the orcs being vegetarians from animorphs.
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Apr 25, 2020 20:50
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Vegetarians who hunt down mobile plants that clearly have at least animal-level intelligence because they defend themselves like animals do (fleeing or counter-attacking with their limbs) instead of like plants do (secreting a lot of tannin so as to be bitter and toxic).
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Apr 25, 2020 21:25
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The Orcs were the worst example of the noble savage trope. They are treated as pure and in touch with the land, but their culture is fractious and tribal and full of blood rituals, because Mookie was just doing a patische of native American stereotypes. Also, the inkwitch was all the proof I needed that Mookie still had a weird madonna-whore complex going on. She is literally a magic pixie dream girl, she just sort pops in from space and takes Snout on an adventure out of his humdrum existance, and behaves all flirty and naive when it comes to sexual implications of scenarios. Ostensibly she has her own goals and motivations but they happen to coincide exactly with an interest Snout all ready had. And she's an hot woman that the main character chastly sleeps beside naked, never touching, contrasted with explicit nudity and sexual innuendo, this horrible lure of temptation to the dark side of actual sex that Snout seems terrified of. But cuddling with a girl is awesome, teasing just the edge of actual sex like some repressed homeschooled teenager. How much more Freudian can you get? E: Like we were all dreading the sex scene, but for fucks sake's Mookie just have them screw already, it would be less creepy than whatever the gently caress is going on now between them. Beelzebufo fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 22:25
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Who What Now posted:I just remembered that he ripped off the orcs being vegetarians from animorphs. MiracleFlare posted:So how about those loving cubes, huh. I'm really not sure what to make of this group dynamic now, mostly because I'm not sure if the orc and the witch are simply arguing or if they genuinely want to harm each other. I do not know if this confusion is intentional. Lunatic Sledge posted:I feel like there's gotta be a word for when a cheap gag comic with mediocre art decides it's going to tackle a dark subject like rape or miscarriages all of a sudden Dabir posted:I think This is their name for it, yes. It is, like most of their names, worthless and non-indicative if you don't know the obscure piece of poo poo it comes from. FuegoFish discussed this phenomenon in YWIBAYSFB and referred to it as "pulling the drama tag," after a Shortpacked! comic where a character rips a tag off a mattress that says "this comic will go from gagaday to lovely angst now and it cannot be undone," which I like better for explaining it to people.
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Apr 26, 2020 00:07
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Invisible Clergy posted:Mookie isn't cool or smart enough to be ripping off the Hork-Bajir. (Plus even for someone of his sort, he'd be a little old for those when they came out) He's ripping off WoW He definitely ripped of Warcraft orcs but they aren't vegetarians, and there's no way he came up with "vegetarians that have big, scary tusks to eat hard-skinned fruits and vegetables" on his own.
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Apr 26, 2020 00:17
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Who What Now posted:He definitely ripped of Warcraft orcs but they aren't vegetarians, and there's no way he came up with "vegetarians that have big, scary tusks to eat hard-skinned fruits and vegetables" on his own. I understand where you're coming from. I don't just say this out of some kind of irrational claim that Mookie can't be associated with anything that I like or think is good. The reason I don't think he cribbed the tusks/vegetarianism from the Hork-Bajir is that he is really bad at hiding the stuff he steals from and will often not try and/or acknowledge it explicitly either in the text or in the blog posts that used to accompany the comic, like when he was ripping off Green Lantern for aliens and stuff. There never was any of that about Animorphs, so I don't think that's the source. I do agree he must've got it from somewhere, though.
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Apr 26, 2020 01:24
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Pretty sure it's because Warhammer 40k orcs are mushrooms so eating one would be "vegetarian."
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Apr 26, 2020 01:45
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I always thought they were vegetarian cause Mookie was vegetarian and he wanted his pet race to have his favorite traits.
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Apr 26, 2020 01:47
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TheHan posted:I always thought they were vegetarian cause Mookie was vegetarian and he wanted his pet race to have his favorite traits. It's almost certainly this. My favorite thing is that as much as Mookie obviously loves his noble savages and poo poo, he still has to white savior them. Like, as outrageously racist and cryptofascist as WoW is, I'm pretty sure - unless I'm forgetting some dumb bit of the post Warcraft 3 law - there aren't any white saviors coming in to solve all the Orcs' problems.
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Apr 26, 2020 02:23
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Who What Now posted:He definitely ripped of Warcraft orcs but they aren't vegetarians, and there's no way he came up with "vegetarians that have big, scary tusks to eat hard-skinned fruits and vegetables" on his own. John Ringo pulls this with one of his alien races, dunno if reading mil sci-fi drek is on brand for mookie though.
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Apr 26, 2020 02:37
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Did he establish the hard-to-eat plants early on? I imagine most likely it was just a post-facto rationalization. He gave Orcs tusks because Orcs have tusks, and then he made them vegetarian, and then someone probably asked him why herbivores would have tusks.
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Apr 26, 2020 02:49
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Well, most tusk-bearing species are herbivores since tusks aren't actually used to eat meat or anything. What's weird is bipeds, carnivorous or herbivorous, having tusks since they're pretty much used only for self-defense or mating fights, not eating. But you can't blame that trope on Mookie at least. Now I'm imagining WoW orcs having elephant-style dominance battles with their stupid face tusks. just face to face and clicking their teeth together.
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Apr 26, 2020 03:25
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At least in Warhammer and 40k the Orkz literally do try to bite each other's to death when the try to prove who's the biggest and strongest. So the tusks make sense for them. Everyone else though it's just 
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Apr 26, 2020 06:08
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Who What Now posted:This wouldn't be nearly so bad if it was updated daily like Mookie said it would be. Agreed. If this poo poo was five days a week it would churn through these empty strips a lot faster. This three a week schedule is a huge factor in how bad this comic is if you were to rank in some sort of all-time list or whatever. Cause I gotta tell ya, it's getting up there.
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Apr 26, 2020 07:41
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TheHan posted:I always thought they were vegetarian cause Mookie was vegetarian and he wanted his pet race to have his favorite traits. And the way they're vegetarian in that the animals they hunt are technically classified as plants makes it clear Mookie doesn't understand what vegetarianism is about. He reduces it to a digestive restriction, in that his orcs will vomit if they try to eat meat. oriongates posted:Well, most tusk-bearing species are herbivores since tusks aren't actually used to eat meat or anything. What's weird is bipeds, carnivorous or herbivorous, having tusks since they're pretty much used only for self-defense or mating fights, not eating. But you can't blame that trope on Mookie at least. Animals also use their tusks for digging.
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Apr 26, 2020 11:34
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Cat Mattress posted:Animals also use their tusks for digging. See truffle-hunting pigs.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:09
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Invisible Clergy posted:This is their name for it, yes. It is, like most of their names, worthless and non-indicative if you don't know the obscure piece of poo poo it comes from. FuegoFish discussed this phenomenon in YWIBAYSFB and referred to it as "pulling the drama tag," after a Shortpacked! comic where a character rips a tag off a mattress that says "this comic will go from gagaday to lovely angst now and it cannot be undone," which I like better for explaining it to people. Being fair to shortpacked that was a quite funny piece of meta, though from what I hear it reaaaally didn't stick that landing: 
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Apr 26, 2020 13:39
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Cat Mattress posted:And the way they're vegetarian in that the animals they hunt are technically classified as plants makes it clear Mookie doesn't understand what vegetarianism is about. He reduces it to a digestive restriction, in that his orcs will vomit if they try to eat meat. Tesseraction posted:Being fair to shortpacked that was a quite funny piece of meta, though from what I hear it reaaaally didn't stick that landing: RoboChrist 9000 posted:Did he establish the hard-to-eat plants early on? I imagine most likely it was just a post-facto rationalization. He gave Orcs tusks because Orcs have tusks, and then he made them vegetarian, and then someone probably asked him why herbivores would have tusks. TheHan posted:I always thought they were vegetarian cause Mookie was vegetarian and he wanted his pet race to have his favorite traits. the yeti posted:John Ringo pulls this with one of his alien races, dunno if reading mil sci-fi drek is on brand for mookie though.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:49
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TheHan posted:I always thought they were vegetarian cause Mookie was vegetarian and he wanted his pet race to have his favorite traits. As a vegan, yeah that's probably about as deep as it goes. It's the only pure and good diet, so of course he'd never want his orcs to nom nom nom on any meat (unless it's got *~*mavpel*~* in it!)
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Apr 26, 2020 17:23
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Cat Mattress posted:And the way they're vegetarian in that the animals they hunt are technically classified as plants makes it clear Mookie doesn't understand what vegetarianism is about. He reduces it to a digestive restriction, in that his orcs will vomit if they try to eat meat. Not only that, but every bit of vegetation in Maltak Is made of souls who died in Maltak. Where’s the moral high ground when you know for a fact meat and vegetables are the same living beings? All this was revealed after making them noble vegetarians as if he wanted to make himself look stupid in retrospect.
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Apr 26, 2020 18:53
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Apr 26, 2020 19:12
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TheHan posted:I always thought they were vegetarian cause Mookie was vegetarian and he wanted his pet race to have his favorite traits. Nah, that can't be i https://twitter.com/mookiebean/status/1254451165686874115 oh
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Apr 26, 2020 19:46
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That hairdo doesn't make him look like an orc, it makes him look like a hipster.
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Apr 26, 2020 21:33
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Well, clearly it's just him
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Apr 26, 2020 21:35
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Apr 26, 2020 21:52
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Nah, that can't be i I'm not going to judge this. Dude wants to have fun with his hair during a very stressful time where everyone's stuck in their homes.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:14
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Can’t fault him for trying to enjoy himself during societal collapse, his whole relationship with orcs is way weird though. Wonder if he saw why Orc was trending on twitter today and how he grappled with that. Anyways new page, it’s garbage.  Day 3 of this loving book and now he’s just repeating the same lines from days 1 and 2.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:49
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Dogwood Fleet posted:I'm not going to judge this. Dude wants to have fun with his hair during a very stressful time where everyone's stuck in their homes. I don't really care about the hair, it's more amusing how timely the quote about wanting to be an orc is
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Apr 26, 2020 23:54
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the entire dream realm is just
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Apr 26, 2020 23:55
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Time cube had a lot more substance and coherence than this.
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Apr 27, 2020 00:15
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Apr 27, 2020 00:23
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TheHan posted:Anyways new page, it’s garbage.
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Apr 27, 2020 00:56
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