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Dapper_Swindler posted:idk. whats wrong with pearlman? he seems pretty progressive and cool. i can take dumb boomer poo poo if its going in the right direction. IIRC that's the story reason, but the actual production reason was indeed because Lilo was extremely unpopular in Japan.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:03
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MonsieurChoc posted:Oh man french dubs of anime are hilarious. The random name changes, the weird songs, I grew up with all of that poo poo. I will defend watching the Rose of Versailles French Dub over the Japanese Dub, EVEN IF a third of the spoken lines in that show are literally the sylabble "HÓN" pronouced on the many, many ways you could say that. I will also say that you could at least say "Oh yeah, I guess the lyrics for the Dragon Ball Z theme, the Fist Of the North Star theme and the Saint Seiya theme DO fit the general themes of the respective shows. Bernard Minet has possibly watched more than a few episodes." Space Adventure Cobra? It's Oshikuru level garbage. Not even the spanish/portuguese dub used it. The plot of "Oh what? I have a gun arm?!" lasts for a minute on the first episode and this is the chosen theme song for the whole series. That portuguese video talked a lot about DBZ getting severely cut but Space Adventure Cobra escaped edits. Hell, Ashiita No Joe was shown on tv around the same time. I've seen people who watched Ashiita No Joe and quote it get mad at the Steven Universe trauma clip, as if Ashiita No Joe ended with Joe being entirely normal for all 41 episodes after defeating the final opponent he stretched up for his corner seat and did this. Kunster fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 17:18
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Acebuckeye13 posted:IIRC that's the story reason, but the actual production reason was indeed because Lilo was extremely unpopular in Japan. also, the way that said story reason is handled makes the production reason very, very obvious, because Lilo straight-up, no-bullshit abandons Stitch in favor of boys and it's just kind of offhandedly mentioned at the start of the show. Japanese audiences loving hate "bratty" kids (Chihiro from Spirited Away is also a deeply unpopular character in Japan); on top of that, I strongly suspect that the very same unique family situation that makes Americans respect the hell out of the movie bristled hard against their cultural sensibilities, since single parents are kind of looked down upon in Japan, and in Japan you're expected to just straight up ignore and not talk about things that are looked down upon. e: that said, Disney did the smart move here and kept that show Asia-exclusive for years, and the English dub mostly exists for markets like Singapore and the Philippines. I think it got a very very brief run on Disney XD in a late-night slot simply as timeslot filler, but they never made any serious attempt to push it here, presumably because everyone's response to the Lilo thing in America when details started emerging was "OH gently caress YOU." WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 18:37
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Wow, Dan Olson is having a normal one and kinda putting his foot in his mouth on the current D&D orc discourse on twitter , He's mischaracterizing this tweet : https://twitter.com/MonkipiQuinn/status/1254197453957459968 as https://twitter.com/FoldableHuman/status/1254453035503284224 which leads to more dumping on a person who basically did the very mild thing of pointing out that D&D has a some lovely racist and colonialist writing. Hel fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 18:48
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I followed McAfee on twitter for a little while just for the pure unhingedness of it, but it quickly became a bit too much for me. Especially all the weird corona-denialism
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Apr 26, 2020 18:53
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The development of the Orc in popular culture is actually a topic I find really fascinating because of how you can trace their development and changes back to the Tolkien baseline. The D&D version of the Orc is... not great, but it, along with the eponymous Greenskin from Warhammer, have had more of an impact on the cultural perception of the Orc than Tolkien Orcs have ever had. D&D Orcs are still pretty much the same as they were back in the 80s, when it was less likely to make people bristle at the notion of an inherently evil or violent sentient being. Nowadays, that doesn't fly as much, which I'd argue is why the Warcraft Orc is so popular, because they balance the violent, tribal image of the Orc with other traits such as honour, compassion and kinship. Even the Warhammer Orc/Ork has more going on than just being pure evil beings. They have a batshit insane culture that is incredibly violent, but they're not sadists, and there's plenty of writing done about the Warhammer Orc that interprets their desire for war in a positive light by trying to see things from their perspective (this is why the War of the Beast books suck because making the Orks cruel for cruelty's sake doesn't fly with their appeal at all). To go with a more contemporary example, the Orcs in Bright are a loving terrible interpretation because they're taking an already colonialist view of Orcs as mindless savages and then updating it to apply to inner city black communities and holy poo poo if that is not one of the worst looks you could have. Modern fantasy and a lot of modern pop culture in general has trouble with the idea of inherently evil life, which is why I haven't really been talking about Tolkien Orcs. Tolkien had serious issues with the idea that something could be inherently evil and not something that a person chose to be or was forced to be. The orcs in Tolkien works are awful beings who are cruel and fearful, but he had deep reservations about making them true creatures of evil, hence why they were originally elves that were ruined by Morgoth and twisted to his own ends. The orc of the 80s and 90s left their mark as evil monsters that lingers to this day (Orcs in japanese media are heavily inspired by D&D Orcs from the 80s which is why you still get the pigfaced rapist monsters in fantasy shows or the loving Goblin Slayer abomination), but that seems to be changing thanks to the stuff I mentioned above.
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Apr 26, 2020 19:05
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Does Dan still post here? I havnt seen him around here in a while.
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Apr 26, 2020 19:05
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Kunster posted:I will defend watching the Rose of Versailles French Dub over the Japanese Dub, EVEN IF a third of the spoken lines in that show are literally the sylabble "HÓN" pronouced on the many, many ways you could say that. Rose of Versailles owns in all languages. I got the french version of the manga at home. Tried to get my mom and little sister to read it, but it didn't click. My mom did like Planetes though. 
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Apr 26, 2020 19:05
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:also, the way that said story reason is handled makes the production reason very, very obvious, because Lilo straight-up, no-bullshit abandons Stitch in favor of boys and it's just kind of offhandedly mentioned at the start of the show. I feel like the real thing that got Lilo kicked from the anime is just straight up racism. Japanese media is packed with single parent families, orphans raised by older siblings and bratty or delinquent protagonists. Hell Yusuke Urameshi is bratty delinquent with a single mother. Or Ichigo Kurosaki bratty with a single father. Naruto way more of a brat than Lilo. Or in a genre closer to Lilo and Stitch would be, Yotsuba. Arcsquad12 posted:The development of the Orc in popular culture is actually a topic I find really fascinating because of how you can trace their development and changes back to the Tolkien baseline. The D&D version of the Orc is... not great, but it, along with the eponymous Greenskin from Warhammer, have had more of an impact on the cultural perception of the Orc than Tolkien Orcs have ever had. D&D Orcs are still pretty much the same as they were back in the 80s, when it was less likely to make people bristle at the notion of an inherently evil or violent sentient being. Nowadays, that doesn't fly as much, which I'd argue is why the Warcraft Orc is so popular, because they balance the violent, tribal image of the Orc with other traits such as honour, compassion and kinship. Even the Warhammer Orc/Ork has more going on than just being pure evil beings. They have a batshit insane culture that is incredibly violent, but they're not sadists, and there's plenty of writing done about the Warhammer Orc that interprets their desire for war in a positive light by trying to see things from their perspective (this is why the War of the Beast books suck because making the Orks cruel for cruelty's sake doesn't fly with their appeal at all). The other thing about Tolkien orcs, is while they had some racist baggage in their visual descriptions, they were mostly a stand in for fascists with a heavy industrial aesthetic and a bunch of classist baggage rather than some racist idea of primitive hordes like DnD went with. Only 40k really leans on this weirdly enough.
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Apr 26, 2020 19:22
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Warhammer Orcs/Orks are all over the goddamn shot wrt to uncomfortable racialisation. 40k Orks are mostly removed from any racial context thanks to their fungus monster origins and space-football hooligan aesthetics. The last dodgy vestiges in the Snakesbitez and Feral Orks having being reimagined as Ork hilbillies and being quietly shoved into the margins of the lore respectively. In the Fantasy side however it leaned way harder into it, between Savage Orcs, Goblin Shamans being depicted with bones through their noses and a unit just straight up called a goddamn 'Spear Chukka'. Age of Sigmar, for all its faults, tried to pull the Savage Orcs into a new direction by divorcing them from any fantasy Africa setting and depicting them as evangelical primitivist monster hunters, though its little use without completely redoing their model line, leaving them with a bunch of awful witch-doctor figures as their hero units. I shudder to think what Forge World's 'The Old World' project will churn out wrt Savage Orcs/Goblins, what with its lead designer being a noted shithead gammon.
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Apr 26, 2020 19:33
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Hel posted:Wow, Dan Olson is having a normal one and kinda putting his foot in his mouth on the current D&D orc discourse on twitter , Sounds to me more like Dan is rolling his eyes at all the people who came up to the other tweet to deny there's any racial overtones to the way D&D portrays orcs. His characterization of the original tweet is reductive, too, but it sounds like he's griping about people who still deny the obvious racial coding of the "always chaotic evil" -type races in D&D and basically all fantasy settings it's influenced since.
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Apr 26, 2020 19:40
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SteelMentor posted:I shudder to think what Forge World's 'The Old World' project will churn out wrt Savage Orcs/Goblins, what with its lead designer being a noted shithead gammon.
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Apr 26, 2020 19:41
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Nuns with Guns posted:Sounds to me more like Dan is rolling his eyes at all the people who came up to the other tweet to deny there's any racial overtones to the way D&D portrays orcs. His characterization of the original tweet is reductive, too, but it sounds like he's griping about people who still deny the obvious racial coding of the "always chaotic evil" -type races in D&D and basically all fantasy settings it's influenced since. Calling the misattributed "why would you say this about black people?!" "self revealing" is pretty much him saying if you see racism you are the real racist, and when the OP is already being harassed by assholes claiming that, putting more fuel on the fire by echoing the words of the racist assholes is a really lovely thing to do. And doing so when Dan pretty much made the same lukewarm point in the minecraft colonialism video is just the cherry on top. Hel fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 19:48
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This is why you shouldn't use Twitter for anything but entertaining shitposts. It's rather confusing and looks like Dan's trying to point out a hint of racism in that original tweet that doesn't mention black people (so...uh, where did that come from?), and it just gets completely confused from there. Swing and a miss.
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Apr 26, 2020 19:51
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MonsieurChoc posted:Rose of Versailles owns in all languages. I got the french version of the manga at home. Tried to get my mom and little sister to read it, but it didn't click. Planetes is somewhat more aproachable!
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Apr 26, 2020 19:55
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Hel posted:Calling the misattributed "why would you say this about black people?!" "self revealing" is pretty much him saying if you see racism you are the real racist, and when the OP is already being harassed by assholes claiming that, putting more fuel on the fire by echoing the words of the racist assholes is a really lovely thing to do. He’s agreeing that dungeons and dragons is racist, though. I have trouble parsing the grammar of that tweet and don’t understand the context, but I don’t see how any part of it supports a charge of reverse racism or “you’re imposing politics on my neutral, natural game!” or any of that.
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Apr 26, 2020 19:55
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twitter was the greatest invention of all time
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Apr 26, 2020 19:57
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Orcs and goblins are cool and everyone else can get stuffed 
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Apr 26, 2020 20:02
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:He’s agreeing that dungeons and dragons is racist, though. I have trouble parsing the grammar of that tweet and don’t understand the context, but I don’t see how any part of it supports a charge of reverse racism or “you’re imposing politics on my neutral, natural game!” or any of that. By using "self revealing" He is saying that if by reading a list of racist stereotypes or words used to make it seem ok to oppress people and then thinking of black people you are actually the real racist for thinking that black people actually are those things. It's saying that if you see racism you are the real racist because anyone else wouldn't think that or make those connections. He's "both sides"-ing the argument that D&D features racist writing by saying that both person that brought it up and the people attacking them are bad. And doing that for something the they haven't actually said is kind of a bad thing to do, especially when you repeat the language of the racist shitheads people doing the harassing, which is part of the context you are missing, the people harassing Quinn are using that same language of saying D&D isn't racist, you are for thinking it is. So then lifting that language for his tweet (combined with it being lies) aligns him against the person pointing out that D&D might possibly be racist. Dan has shown himself capable of realizing when he posted lovely things in this thread so hopefully he can do that on twitter as well.
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Apr 26, 2020 20:04
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:also, the way that said story reason is handled makes the production reason very, very obvious, because Lilo straight-up, no-bullshit abandons Stitch in favor of boys and it's just kind of offhandedly mentioned at the start of the show. Dang, they Susan'd Lilo? I saw the series in movie rental stores when I was living in Japan and I just assumed it was set in some alternate universe where Stitch lands in Okinawa.
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Apr 26, 2020 20:05
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Hel posted:Calling the misattributed "why would you say this about black people?!" "self revealing" is pretty much him saying if you see racism you are the real racist, and when the OP is already being harassed by assholes claiming that, putting more fuel on the fire by echoing the words of the racist assholes is a really lovely thing to do. And doing so when Dan pretty much made the same lukewarm point in the minecraft colonialism video is just the cherry on top. That bit is weird because the OP never says anything like that and idk what Dan was going for there. The only self-revealing thing in that thread is all of the people who ran into the replies to scream about SJWs knew exactly what the OP was implying to be the problem with the language, but still tried to play it off as "It's just fiction bro! There's no commonality with real life black people!" Even though the OP never explicitly said that was the issue. They have the critical reading skills to know what's wrong with that language (and apply it to a real world racial group themselves), but still tried to play it off. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 20:11
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You can both point out how horribly racist that paragraph is and also that thinking it's specifically going for black people is a bit revealing. These stereotypes have been given to many a people. It's a horrible paragraph.
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Apr 26, 2020 20:16
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Paladin posted:Dang, they Susan'd Lilo? I saw the series in movie rental stores when I was living in Japan and I just assumed it was set in some alternate universe where Stitch lands in Okinawa. Apparently they then did a third series where he crashlands in China. I dunno how that fits with the Lilo & Stitch canon (which technically exists in the same universe as Kim Possible, Jake Long, Recess and The Proud Family, if you go by the original series).
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Apr 26, 2020 20:23
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MonsieurChoc posted:You can both point out how horribly racist that paragraph is and also that thinking it's specifically going for black people is a bit revealing. The problem is that Dan lies about Quinn says it's going for black people and then using the self revealing to attack them based on things hey haven't said. Setting up a lie so that you can attack both racists and anti racists is pretty bad.
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Apr 26, 2020 20:26
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I feel like someone had a video related to this whole matter actually.... hmmm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxV8gAGmbtk e- for real though, I don't get why Dan is leaning into the mischaracterization of the original tweets that all the racists are spreading around Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 20:26
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Hel posted:The problem is that Dan lies about Quinn says it's going for black people and then using the self revealing to attack them based on things hey haven't said. Setting up a lie so that you can attack both racists and anti racists is pretty bad. Yeah that's kinda dumb.
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Apr 26, 2020 20:28
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MonsieurChoc posted:Yeah that's kinda dumb. Apparently both Shaun and Shannon Strucci are calling him out a bit, so hopefully he'll listen to people closer to his circle of friends and figure out he's being a shithead.
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Apr 26, 2020 20:32
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Ghostlight posted:is gandahar french anime "Production work was done by SEK Animation Studio of North Korea" 
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Apr 26, 2020 20:45
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Absurd Alhazred posted:"Production work was done by SEK Animation Studio of North Korea" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUwQwtDpdE4 EDIT: wow that did not age well.
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Apr 26, 2020 21:05
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUwQwtDpdE4 Its anime style??? But like...Anime is japanese...
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Apr 26, 2020 21:16
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Nobody in the west has been able to properly tell the difference between Japan, China, and Korea for the past thousand years.
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Apr 26, 2020 21:24
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To be fair a lot of anime outsources to Korea. Edit: \/ I'm pretty sure that part is an intentional joke. Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 21:27
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Mokinokaro posted:To be fair a lot of anime outsources to Korea. NORTH Korea, though?
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Apr 26, 2020 21:29
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Mokinokaro posted:To be fair a lot of anime outsources to Korea. Ah, I didn't know that...But that begs the question: Did the writers of Clerks TAS know that?
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Apr 26, 2020 21:29
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Absurd Alhazred posted:NORTH Korea, though? North Korea makes anime 
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Apr 26, 2020 21:33
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SteelMentor posted:Warhammer Orcs/Orks are all over the goddamn shot wrt to uncomfortable racialisation. Yeah, when I talk about greenskins I'm more referring to the 40K version (which is why the War of the Beast pisses me off so much), because Savage Orcs are a yikes. Not even the Total War Warhammer games are able to rehabilitate them, even if I do like Wurrzagg as Orc Moses. Regular Orcs in Fantasy tend to get off better and even have the Black Orcs (enslaved Orcs made stronger by torturous magic and breeding programs) break off their shackles and prove that Orcs can be more than a disorganized rabble. They're violent with a purpose and strive for self improvement to be the best, rather than to inflict harm out of a sadistic desire to see pain.
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Apr 26, 2020 21:38
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Mokinokaro posted:To be fair a lot of anime outsources to Korea. There was a really similar gag on the simpsons a few years earlier: https://youtu.be/eAUE5-pqT6w?t=222 I feel like in the 90s there was some talk about a South Korean studio that secretly subcontracted with a North Korean studio, but I can’t find a good source for it.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:01
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North Korea does have somewhat of a presence in terms of animation production and a pal of mine went there to visit their studios. It's one of those things NK shrugs about, like New Zealander Ornithologists. South and North Korean relations are partly helped by Chaebols realizing that they a) easily bridge relationships between the borders and b) get stuff done for cheaper rates by offering work to North Koreans with factories and the like being deployed nearby the border. And given the fact that any time they talk about this you get the US get super loving pissy about it (And youtubers frothing in the mouth in rage for displaying some level of diplomacy that isn't outright "Murder everyone in there") they don't exactly brag about it. Kunster fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 22:06
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There's also the 'Oh my God bear is driving!' sequence in the Clerks cartoon, which I liked at the time but now I realize is kinda racist. That said they do have some funny stories of having to deal with the Korean animation studio on the commentary track
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Apr 26, 2020 22:07
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RE: Ork Talk This writer does a really interesting deep dive into Tolkien and D&D orcs, and I found this pair of articles fascinating: https://jamesmendezhodes.com/blog/2019/1/13/orcs-britons-and-the-martial-race-myth-part-i-a-species-built-for-racial-terror https://jamesmendezhodes.com/blog/2019/6/30/orcs-britons-and-the-martial-race-myth-part-ii-theyre-not-human
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Apr 26, 2020 22:10
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