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Burkion posted:But, saying Godzilla fans don't like Godzilla, is insanely reductive and extremely untrue. There's room for all kinds of fans and all kinds of takes. Nerdism is a specific ideology that is not only directly at odds with the politics of basically all Honda’s films, but is just bad in general. This is not a case of ‘making room for all kinds of fans’ versus, I guess, kicking people out of the fandom(?). (Oh no, my enjoyment!) The point is that fandom itself is deleterious to what Godzilla movies are ‘about’. Honda himself satirized this in Ghidorah The Three-Headed Monster, when Mothra and the alien straight-up appear on television to say that global warming is caused by capitalism and it’s going to kill everyone, but the audience just wants them to do a little song & dance. Like, “haha, cool, a giant bug”. Honda’s integrity is such that when we later shown the ‘authentic’ version of Mothra’s song & dance routine, it is in fact exactly the same camp spectacle - the only difference being that the diegetic audience now ‘takes it seriously’ and does something. The director is straight up telling you that yeah, these movies are fun - but they’re fun because they have a truth. And if you are missing that truth, then you are an enemy of Godzilla. Again, Ghidorah has an extended sequence making fun of lovely ‘apolitical’ spectacle in Kaiju films, where Godzilla and Rodan moronically bash each other with rocks. Over and over. Rodan represents the people of the Soviet Union.
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Apr 26, 2020 20:06
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And that's all well and good, but the goofy spectacle has its place too. MechaG 74 has some serious story to it, a scientist owning up to the horrible consequences of his work, but generally? It's pure fluff. It's action set piece after action set piece with a James Bond adventure in the middle with the best soundtrack of the entire franchise. And that's fine. Those movies have a place too. Those movies just aren't the place to be shoving one of the heaviest and most important pieces of the franchise into- but I've already said that. Big dumb kaiju throwdowns absolutely have their place and shouldn't be derided for it because that's just how the beast evolved over time and they have a charm of their own. My biggest and loudest complaint with KotM is and remains the Oxygen Destroyer and what follows. It completely flies in the face of what the movie otherwise is. Though I will say, I think they should have played up man's destruction of the environment more. Have it be a key point that, thanks to global warming, Ghidorah was going to be free sooner than later- all they did was make it faster. But the movie barely got to have the lady say the bad things without people jumping down its throat, so you can imagine how that would have gone. I just hope we get to see a transformed world come VS Kong, with kaiju having an irrevocable effect on the ecosystem and environment.
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Apr 26, 2020 20:30
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Burkion posted:And that's all well and good, but the goofy spectacle has its place too. You're not following; Honda's point with characters like Mothra and the Venusian prophet is that your dichotomy between "goofy" and "important" is absolutely false. That logic extends up to and includes Godzilla himself. And to be clear, this is not a product of Honda's intentionally, like it's something that only applies to his particular films. It is true of all media - including this one, where Godzilla is refashioned by a team of nerds to into a weapon to defend American interests against "ecoterrorism".
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Apr 26, 2020 22:42
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Timby posted:Yeah, while I like King of the Monsters quite a bit, in large part because I got to see MY KING in all his rampaging, rear end in a top hat glory, the Oxygen Destroyer is probably the weakest aspect of the plot. I agree, and I also like KOTM a lot overall. If they were going to use the Oxygen Destroyer at all it should've been like the Genesis Device in Star Trek II, something permeating the entire film and loaded with symbolic portent. A looming presence of unprecedented human achievement whose mere conceptual power invites anxiety and awe and terror, let alone the possibility of its actual use. In fact they should've ditched the whole alpha signal bullshit and made the human angle about Revenge Dad developing the Oxygen Destroyer to kill Godzilla even if, by the implication of its name, it might cause inconceivable devastation in the process.
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Apr 28, 2020 07:40
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The only thing I can say for KotM anymore is that it's not as bad as Godzilla 98, and the score elevates it.
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Apr 28, 2020 20:59
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Failson posted:The only thing I can say for KotM anymore is that it's not as bad as Godzilla 98, and the score elevates it. Bear McCreary did some absolutely amazing work.
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Apr 28, 2020 21:11
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KotM isn't great, but at least it's watchable. Godzilla '98 has huge stretches that are just boring as poo poo as Matthew Broderick tries and fails to be funny and/or charming.
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Apr 29, 2020 05:39
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I love most of the kaiju stuff in KotM, Rodan's character still bugs me but eh, but it's not even close to being compared to '98. '98 is dire I gave that an honest chance a few years back, since it'd been a while from when I'd last seen it. I pushed away everything and it's just this lovely disaster movie where the disasters aren't good, the tone is goofy to the point of self parody but never revels in that and instead it just hangs over the thing like a damp blanket, half the loving cast are Simpsons voice actors some of whom do their Simpsons voices, and it so desperately does not want to be the movie that it is. It has some gorgeous physical effects but the CGI has aged like milk left out in a hot car and it is impossible to impart how painfully Pre-9'11 the movie is. Which that's not a fault of the film but boy does it stick out. Take Independance Day, scale back the threat and the action, and remove all of the talented actors and instead put in Yogi Bear voice actors doing their bit while pretending to be characters, and you almost reach what this movie was only I'm pretty sure that would have been funnier.
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Apr 29, 2020 07:44
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98 was just a worse Jurassic Park
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Apr 29, 2020 16:58
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Godzilla 98 is arguably the worst blockbuster of all time, so any other american Godzilla has a low bar to clear. Dogora talk: It's a crime-comedy sendup, with a monster thrown in for laughs, and naming the movie after the monster is kinda part of the joke? Not that it's a good joke. Reminds me, I haven't watched Matango in a while.
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Apr 29, 2020 17:03
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Failson posted:Godzilla 98 is arguably the worst blockbuster of all time Not even close, not when movies like Independence Day 2 exist.
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Apr 29, 2020 17:36
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Timby posted:Not even close, not when movies like Independence Day 2 exist. I think there's sort of been an inevitable inflation between G'98 and something like Independence Day 2 in terms of what "blockbuster" means though. G'98's dismal failure was all the more impressive because there weren't more than a handful of movies like that coming out in any given year.
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Apr 29, 2020 20:36
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G'98 was a big Event. They marketed the gently caress out of that turd ID42 was a whimpering afterthought that slithered onto the screen to no applause and much confusion
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Apr 29, 2020 20:48
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Failson posted:
Matango straight up is one of my favorite early Toku movies. The combination of mystery, body horror, and the Showa era style and funkiness makes it an amazing experience. And the Matango themselves are a great kaijin design set. I painted a soft vinyl M-1 Matango recently (I bought it back in 2000 on a trip to Osaka) that I wanted to give a "creeps up on you at the campfire" vibe.  Campfire Matango by Doug Hardy, on Flickr Campfire Matango by Doug Hardy, on Flickr Campfire Matango by Doug Hardy, on Flickr Campfire Matango by Doug Hardy, on Flickr(available on my web store along with some other soft vinyls if y'all are interested)
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Apr 29, 2020 21:08
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Detective No. 27 posted:The Oxygen Destroyer is such a huge thing in the original movie and even comes back to haunt people decades later in Destroyah. It's a huge ethical debate to use it. One has to wonder why Serizawa would even make such a thing if he was willing to die to prevent it's duplication.
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Apr 29, 2020 21:46
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mandatory lesbian posted:Godzilla vs destroyah is the only actual sequel to Godzilla 54, change my mind Thematically or in terms of the progression of the Godzilla film series?
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Apr 29, 2020 21:54
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Burkion posted:G'98 was a big Event. They marketed the gently caress out of that turd HannibalBarca posted:I think there's sort of been an inevitable inflation between G'98 and something like Independence Day 2 in terms of what "blockbuster" means though. G'98's dismal failure was all the more impressive because there weren't more than a handful of movies like that coming out in any given year. Yup, ID2 was bad, but it also slipped out like a fart at a quiet dinner party. And I admit, it's arguable 98 is the Worst Blockbuster, because Batman and Robin was the year before, and just as bad in entirely different ways (had to look up their numbers, and they both turned a profit, which surprised me). My personal 90's low is Armageddon, but I get shouted down whenever I talk about how much I loath that movie. mandatory lesbian posted:Godzilla vs destroyah is the only actual sequel to Godzilla 54, change my mind It's kinda the only sequel that deals with the aftermath of the Oxygen Destroyer, so I'm convinced. GATOS Y VATOS posted:Matango straight up is one of my favorite early Toku movies. The combination of mystery, body horror, and the Showa era style and funkiness makes it an amazing experience. And the Matango themselves are a great kaijin design set. Looks great! Buy Doug's stuff, he has kitties to feed!
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Apr 29, 2020 22:53
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Burkion posted:G'98 was a big Event. They marketed the gently caress out of that turd It's even funnier because the scale of the action in Independence Day 2 is just absurdly huge, like their main ship causes a Biblical apocalypse just settling in for a landing. There was a scifi movie in the 50s about the Earth being destroyed by the gravitational interaction with a passing rogue planet and it's positively staid compared to what the aliens get up to this time. And yet it's so anodyne in presentation, it might as well be a bunch of people on a theme park ride.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:22
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Failson posted:And I admit, it's arguable 98 is the Worst Blockbuster, because Batman and Robin was the year before, and just as bad in entirely different ways (had to look up their numbers, and they both turned a profit, which surprised me). G'98 turned a pretty slim profit, though, which was something of an unpleasant surprise for everyone involved given the extent to which it had been sold as the event movie of the year, if not the entire back half of the decade. Whether a better movie would have made more money is something of an unknowable question, but I've got the sneaking suspicion at this point that betting the farm on giant monster movies is never going to be a big, consistent Hollywood box office winner.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:32
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G98 did have a pretty goddamn good soundtrack though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIUAC03YMlA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXCFYrnD_a0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDiXqjwb7Sg I hated this track though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC4BC-Hxq9g
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May 1, 2020 15:21
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https://twitter.com/AMON1972AKUMA/status/1259202184735936512?s=20
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May 9, 2020 20:25
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I've been slowly working my way through the Criterion set and I gotta say, I loved Son of Godzilla. Kumonga and the Kamacuras are really cool and while Minilla is kind of derpy all the stuff with him and Godzilla was funny and endearing. I also watched vs. Ebirah for the first time non MSTed and liked it a lot too, from what I understand both movies have the same creative team. They brought a great sense of scale to the kaiju with some pretty inventive and dynamic shots (for the time) and are both in general just some fun and breezy movies.
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May 11, 2020 05:16
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I honestly think MSt3K makes Sea Monster seem worse than it is. The movie moves at a pretty quick pace and is suitably goofy and fun. It's not a bad island adventure film
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May 11, 2020 05:31
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Agreed, but also all of the Showa movies are like 100 percent different watching them in their native language with good transfers and the intended aspect ratio. I'm really glad they did this collection!
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May 11, 2020 06:03
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Dammerung posted:Thematically or in terms of the progression of the Godzilla film series? Thematically, it's the only one that engages with the aftermath of using the oxygen destroyer by treating it like the use of the initial atom bombs in the original godzilla, by which I mean it creates a Kaiju that starts rampaging around. I find the parallels between the two stronger in that regard. Pretty stellar that it also serves as a perfect ending to this other unrelated Godzilla series that had been going on for 50 years
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May 11, 2020 11:37
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Sea Monster and Son of Godzilla are really fun and pretty well-written movies if you can accept the goofy monster stuff. I'd watch either of them in a heartbeat over any Godzilla stuff from the 90s.
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May 11, 2020 12:46
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I like the island films and I wouldn't mind seeing another variation on them at some point. I know they were made partially to save money on expensive city sets, but I always thought it was cool the idea that you need to be careful on some islands of the Pacific in case you run into Godzilla or some other mad poo poo like Giant Condor. They're kind of set in a period of continuity where monsters are just a threatening but present part of the natural world and just something you may have to deal with if you go sailing.
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May 11, 2020 23:19
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There was also an attempt by Toho with those two movies to appeal more to teenagers by hiring Fukuda. Even though Tsubaraya was only a supervisor on those two, Son of Godzilla has some really impressive work with Kumonga and the Kamacuras. Really remarkable puppetry.
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May 12, 2020 19:47
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robot roll call posted:I've been slowly working my way through the Criterion set and I gotta say, I loved Son of Godzilla. Kumonga and the Kamacuras are really cool and while Minilla is kind of derpy all the stuff with him and Godzilla was funny and endearing. I also watched vs. Ebirah for the first time non MSTed and liked it a lot too, from what I understand both movies have the same creative team. They brought a great sense of scale to the kaiju with some pretty inventive and dynamic shots (for the time) and are both in general just some fun and breezy movies. My son is six and Son of Godzilla is his favorite (followed by the original two Mechagodzilla films). He loved Son in Spacegodzilla, but wondered why he looked different. I told him because he was slightly older.
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May 12, 2020 19:50
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I opened my Shin Godzilla bluray and found an Ultraviolet code for a digital copy of the movie. It's cool to hand these out here, right? anyone want it?
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May 13, 2020 04:10
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i'm pretty sure that Ultraviolet codes are now just useless series of letters and numbers, so I don't know why it wouldn't be cool to post it here
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May 13, 2020 04:15
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I heard they're only redeemable on Funimation's site now or something.
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May 13, 2020 04:23
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sure, then here's the code, first come first served: FGZZXA15H4C4DB83
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May 13, 2020 04:52
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Shiftypenguin posted:My son is six and Son of Godzilla is his favorite (followed by the original two Mechagodzilla films). He loved Son in Spacegodzilla, but wondered why he looked different. I told him because he was slightly older. Why did he look different?
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May 14, 2020 02:56
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Minilla has got to be my least favorite Showa design, I hate him so much. Just a dumb green turd with eyebrows.
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May 14, 2020 03:01
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Minilla has got to be my least favorite Showa design, I hate him so much. Just a dumb green turd with eyebrows. He's got big eyes because big eyes are cute, and he has the big brows to give him an open, surprised expression. All that makes sense. But why did they give him an absolute nightmare mouth? 
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May 14, 2020 03:52
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Son of Godzilla is the first Godzilla film I ever saw. I remember catching it on TV at my Grandma's house.
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May 14, 2020 04:36
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Back in Dallas there was a sushi restaurant that played Godzilla 2000 from a projector on loop above the bar. Wild times.
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May 14, 2020 13:54
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Just Offscreen posted:Back in Dallas there was a sushi restaurant that played Godzilla 2000 from a projector on loop above the bar. Off topic, but there was a restaurant where I live that had a no sports rule and instead played the original TMNT, Bloodsport, Kickboxer, etc. on their TVs. That lasted about two weeks after they opened and they had to switch to sports out of customer demand. 
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May 14, 2020 15:07
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The resturaunt was weak willed.
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May 14, 2020 15:12
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