The Skeep posted:

Do y'all think that kid that worf accidentally decapitated in the middle of a soccer match got sent to stovakor? He technically died in battle and people probably screamed and let them know a warrior was coming.

Pick posted:

Something I legitimately like about Tumblr is that it does not show how many people follow you

YggiDee posted:

You can see how many followers you have but the information isn't visible to other people, so you can't brag about how popular you are. Also the number is a lie because it counts bots, spammers, and anyone you have blocked. Only ten percent of my listed followers are actual human beings, the rest are pornbots and the one guy who exclusively posts Bruce Lee gifs.

hard counter posted:

i get you, but tbf you'd have to find yourself in a pretty disreputable room to think it's necessary to test the waters or people might heckle garak x bashir

The Skeep posted:

Do y'all think that kid that worf accidentally decapitated in the middle of a soccer match got sent to stovakor? He technically died in battle and people probably screamed and let them know a warrior was coming.

Pick posted:

i do not normally Get Serious in this, these forums of our doofery, but if someone legit is anti-garak-&-bashir (as opposed to ambivalent, without some angle like "bashir doesn't really respect other cultures, he just wants to explore alien holes w/ his willy) i legit suspect they're homophobic. it's not like kirkxspock, as noted above, where tbh I sorta think they're more affecting as platonic soulmates than as "lovers" (though again, whatever). there is such a goddamn good dynamic there. it's meaningful and substantive. it Means something for them to make it. dammit

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Pretty sure anyone familiar with TAS is too distracted either by Kirk's buddy Satan or the catgirl.

oh but seriously I posted:

So who was three-armed red guy loving?

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Pretty sure anyone familiar with TAS is too distracted either by Kirk's buddy Satan or the catgirl.

oh but seriously I posted:

Searching my soul, I like Bashir but only in the context of as a love interest to Garak. Outside of that I think he is an idiot dipshit. I think Garak would be really good for Bashir but I also think he could do a lot better.

quote:

My primary gripe [with this plotline] is that it throws off the balance of the characters.

Deep Space 9 thrives on the relationships between characters and ways that these characters try to realize their personal philosophies when the opportunity is presented to them.

For example, take the three main human Federation characters, and how each views the Federation:

- Sisko is pro-Federation but is extremely skeptical about some aspects and, at times, actively and consciously acts in ways that are contrary to some of its common tenets. ( “Establish a dialogue? What the hell does she think I’ve been trying to do? […] Just because a group of people belongs to the Federation it does not mean that they are saints. […] The trouble is Earth. On Earth there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window of Starfleet headquarters and you see paradise. Well, it’s easy to be a saint in paradise, but the Maquis do not live in paradise. Out there in the Demilitarised zone, all the problems haven’t been solved yet. Out there, there are no saints, just people. Angry, scared, determined people who are going to do whatever it takes to survive whether it meets with Federation approval or not.”)

- O’Brien is loyal to the Federation but it doesn’t seem to come from a heavily philosophical space. He has seen the Federation work for him and work for his family. He approves of it but I wouldn’t label him “zealous”, and he will make decisions based on pragmatism as he believes necessary.

- Dr. Bashir is an ideologue. He believes in the Federation from a heavily moral and conceptual standpoint and is absolutely crushed whenever its ostensible ideals are abandoned or compromised. You can see him contrasted with Miles in “Hippocratic Oath” and contrasted with Sisko in “In the Pale Moonlight”.

To me, the nuances of these three pro-Federation characters is really compelling.

We see the show deliberately construct contrasting character sets. For example, Kira is unapologetically fierce whereas Jadzia is perhaps excessively laissez-faire. Odo represents the dispassionately authoritarian rule of law/security/the panopticon, whereas Quark represents entrepreneurism/freedom/criminal conduct. Dukat sees himself as lofty and controlled, but is spontaneous, emotional, and not very bright; Garak presents himself as humble and superficial, but is a patient, sly, and pragmatic planner. Gowron is a traditional Klingon hothead, whereas Martok is a more reasoned, compassionate leader.

DS9 usually assigned teams of characters based on how their philosophies would clash and how certain perspectives may or may not be valid under different scenarios. (Or sometimes, how two disparate-seeming views can achieve a compromise under certain conditions.) They also played a lot with completely independent axes for character motivations. “Cardassians” is a good example, where Garak’s involvement has absolutely nothing to do with being pro- or anti-Federation even though the conclusion is in the Federation’s best interests.

Making Bashir into Data-lite is like… what? How does that help? It interrupts his previous long-arc of, essentially, growing up in a world more complicated than he’d previously imagined. (Think back to his first “frontier medicine!!” line with Kira.) Jadzia’s no longer the “generally smart/wise/experienced” character and gets some of the wind taken out of her sails, probably why she’s handed off to Worf and becomes somewhat subordinate as a character. His idealism/cynicism dynamic with Garak gets completely off-course. I don’t know what the heck kind of dynamic he’s supposed to have with Sisko after that, versus the pseudo-paternal angle Sisko has for Bashir early-in.

TNG needed a Data. Deep Space 9 doesn’t. There are cases to the contrary in both shows, but I believe TNG is largely about characters with different skills coming together to solve problems. DS9 is more about characters with different philosophies solving (or addressing) problems. As such, it is perfectly all right if Geordi, Troi, Dr. Crusher, and Riker are all committed to the Federation as it presently exists. However, many episodes of Deep Space 9 would flounder if the characters didn’t have different views on the nature of the problem they’re addressing. Making Dr. Bashir into like… off-brand Data or Spock interrupts the dynamics they had established, which were working, and just introduced one more twist that they didn’t really know how to integrate into the show and only halfheartedly followed through on.

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Pretty sure anyone familiar with TAS is too distracted either by Kirk's buddy Satan or the catgirl.

Pick posted:

m'ress is a known quantity

Pick posted:

that's Arex, and he's an edosian, a species introduced and only seen in TAS. so when garak said he liked to raise "edosian orchids" he is making TAS canon.

oh but seriously I posted:

What did I just say about CatGirl horny? I feel like I am speaking into a horny CatGirl shaped void

dudeness posted:

or BIG SPOCK. (he's exactly like regular Spock, but big)

Pick posted:

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

...man normally I can figure out the episode by a screenshot but this one is stumping me

Pick posted:

Pick posted:

MonsieurChoc posted:

me, internally: Babylon 5.