|
Hedgehog Pie posted:New Blood Rising is when Goldberg REFUSED TO FOLLOW THE SCRIPT and despite that it still might not be the worst WCW 2000 PPV (it's still horrible). yeah, New Blood Rising followed GAB2000 (human torch match! Hogan and Flair both winning retirement stipulation matches!) and BatB 2000 (Jarrett lays down for Hogan! Vam-pyro's graveyard match!) and it's all an absolutely loving brutal stretch of 3 shows. E: BatB 2000 to me is the worst of those 3 but god, you could make convincing arguments for any of them. DJExile fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Apr 30, 2020 |
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 14:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 10:27 |
|
|
Hedgehog Pie posted:New Blood Rising is when Goldberg REFUSED TO FOLLOW THE SCRIPT and despite that it still might not be the worst WCW 2000 PPV (it's still horrible). Yeah it can't touch Havoc 2000 which has tons of lovely booking but is also WAY more boring than any of the other shows.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 08:27
|
|
|
The real remarkable part of the dirt worst of WCW is that it isn't the infamously terrible stuff. Like, the New Blood vs. Millionaire's Club was a million times better than the Natural Born Thrillers vs. MIA.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 08:40
|
|
|
Because by the end nobody gave enough of a poo poo to put that stuff up on the same poo poo pedestal as the other stuff.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 12:55
|
|
|
yeah once they're into the fall of 2000 and it's painfully clear to everyone that they're on death's door, you can tell absolutely nobody is giving a poo poo and it's hard to blame them.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 15:06
|
|
|
it was me, I was the one that cared about MIA
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 19:21
|
|
|
coconono posted:it was me, I was the one that cared about MIA what was the point of that stable, other than Major Gunns eventually turning heel to be Lance Storm's valet
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 19:29
|
|
|
Troy Queef posted:what was the point of that stable, other than Major Gunns eventually turning heel to be Lance Storm's valet Stoner army jokes were really big at the time I think. It was also my platonic ideal of a stable, put a bunch of losers together and see if they can cover each other's faults.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 19:33
|
|
|
coconono posted:Stoner army jokes were really big at the time I think. It was also my platonic ideal of a stable, put a bunch of losers together and see if they can cover each other's faults. oh yeah, Russo wanted to make the Hugh G. Rection and Private Stash jokes. shame that stable was being done better at the same time Up North with the J.O.B. Squad
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 19:38
|
|
|
NBT were so boring that they escape memory. It's like how when you ask people about the worst movies of all time, they remember Plan 9 and a bunch of other monster movies, but forget about all the awful romantic comedies that just make you want to change the channel.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 19:44
|
|
|
Troy Queef posted:oh yeah, Russo wanted to make the Hugh G. Rection and Private Stash jokes. shame that stable was being done better at the same time Up North with the J.O.B. Squad in my mind it was all worth it for the MIA/Team Canada feud that included Major Gunns rocking that sweet maple leaf bikini. JOB squad was ok but I remember it being short lived.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 19:56
|
|
|
Did the JOB Squad ever do ANYTHING? I'm no MIA advocate or anything but I'm kind of floored to find out there's people who have really positive memories of the JOB Squad. Was it Gillberg?
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 20:12
|
|
|
they helped Foley win his first title!
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 20:20
|
|
|
I don't remember the J.O.B. Squad all that well, they weren't especially memorable. Meanwhile MIA was memorable for all of the wrong reasons - they were bland, seemed like they were in every midcard match/segment for a while, andcoconono posted:It was also my platonic ideal of a stable, put a bunch of losers together and see if they can cover each other's faults. this was the intention I think, but with MIA they seemed to cover up each other's strengths and play to their weaknesses. So you got a stable with the charisma of Wall, the physically intimidating presence of Chavo, the technical wrestling ability of Lash, the name recognition of Van Hammer, and the genuine likability of Hugh Morrus. To be fair, it's tough to play to everyone's strengths when half of those guys didn't really have strengths.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 20:55
|
|
|
before it came out that Hugh Morris was a total bastard, I was really into him. But I was also really into Lash LaRoux(his sideburns were in the shape of an L, so cool). I can't tell you why and when I go back and watch their matches they're all plodding dogshit so it may have been all the drugs I was on. 98 was adventures with LSD(  ) and meth(:nope:) iirc. Wasn't the JOB squad just the blue World order with different shirts? I honestly can't remember.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 21:06
|
|
|
Yeah, I liked Hugh Morrus in the day. He was a big man who was agile and could wrestle a bit. I liked his stuff with Lance Storm. And in principle, yeah, I like the idea of taking a bunch of lower midcarders going nowhere, sticking them with a midcard leader, and seeing what happens. In reality the sex and pot jokes were real dumb and I think were probably a bit too much for me even at the time. I think my biggest problem with the JOB Squad was there was no point. Loosely the point of MIA was to get Hugh Morrus over and feud with Team Canada. And I loved Team Canada so I was intrigued. But like... the JOB Squad were a bunch of low carders thrown together and called jobbers all for the purpose of... being jobbers. WWE loves doing that and like... I don't see the point. Either you let yourself care and get interested in them for nothing or they're just jobbers with a new wrapping. coconono posted:Wasn't the JOB squad just the blue World order with different shirts? I honestly can't remember.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 21:16
|
|
|
A stable explicitly made up of losers only makes sense if they turn things around and start winning. MIA shouldn't have come across as bland, but they took a bunch of wacky knuckleheads and gave them similar names and a uniform. Speaking of which, remember the Hardcore Soldiers? Turns out putting Al Green, Fit Finlay, and a Nasty Boy in goofy camo didn't get them over either.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 21:34
|
|
|
It's also important that the JOB Squad stable existed for just over three months, and was largely relegated to Shotgun Saturday Night and Heat. They had one PPV appearance (jobbing to the Brood in their PPV debut too) and I guess did a couple of run-ins on behalf of Mankind who definitely wasn't getting a JOB Squad gimmick change, they were just showing ECW solidarity or whatever. The MIA, meanwhile, lasted over nine months and were all loving over Nitro in multiple segments and briefly threatened to sink Booker T's main event push when he reverted to "GI Bro". It's also worth remembering that one of them (MIA) were part of a period of shows everyone remembers as being loving awful, while the JOB Squad were part of shows people generally remember fondly, so being the worst thing appearing briefly on a fun show is less vexing to people than being prominently featured on a dogshit show.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 22:12
|
|
|
Troy Queef posted:oh yeah, Russo wanted to make the Hugh G. Rection and Private Stash jokes. shame that stable was being done better at the same time Up North with the J.O.B. Squad Didn't Van Hammer argue that he should instead by a higher rank, not understanding the joke?
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2020 02:22
|
|
|
RC and Moon Pie posted:Didn't Van Hammer argue that he should instead by a higher rank, not understanding the joke? Yes that is something that apparently happened.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2020 02:23
|
|
|
RC and Moon Pie posted:Didn't Van Hammer argue that he should instead by a higher rank, not understanding the joke? Major Stash, because Private Stash wasn't high enough in the chain of command
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2020 02:24
|
|
|
As bad as some WWE stables are, the worst get canned pretty quick. MIA stuck around for about 9 months, had zero good matches, zero good promos and the peak was Hugh Morrus winning the US title, WCW giving him a big moment... and the crowd not giving a poo poo. Because MIA sucked and he sucked.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2020 04:32
|
|
|
Just wondering on which individual most people blame for the death of WCW. Like if there was a vote between Bischoff, Russo, Hogan and uhhh I guess Nash?? Who wins?
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2020 06:06
|
|
|
Seams posted:Just wondering on which individual most people blame for the death of WCW. Like if there was a vote between Bischoff, Russo, Hogan and uhhh I guess Nash?? Who wins? In terms of actual blame for the death of WCW? It's definitely not Russo, they were already past the point of no return by the time he was hired. If I had to pick one person I'd say Bischoff because him losing his mind during the battle for ratings led to a lot of stuff happening that started WCW's decline. By popular opinion though you'd be able to pick any of them with Russo coming in first. zetamind2000 fucked around with this message at 06:18 on May 2, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 2, 2020 06:14
|
|
|
It's Eric "Burn Every Candle from Every End for the weakest revenue stream because number go up" Bischoff.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2020 06:17
|
|
|
overmind2000 posted:In terms of actual blame for the death of WCW? It's definitely not Russo, they were already past the point of no return by the time he was hired. If I had to pick one person I'd say Bischoff because him losing his mind during the battle for ratings led to a lot of stuff happening that started WCW's decline. By popular opinion though you'd be able to pick any of them with Russo coming in first.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2020 16:01
|
|
|
You could make a lot of arguments a lot of ways but yeah it's probably ultimately Eric. Russo hastened the death but they were already circling the drain when he came on.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2020 16:09
|
|
|
jesus WEP posted:iirc Russo completely trashed their PPV numbers in record time. You can argue they would have fallen away anyway, but he did a huge amount of financial damage as soon as he came in. Bro (slams table) you don’t understand it’s just like (slams table) that one guy I forget his name in that movie it’s exactly like that
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2020 16:11
|
|
|
Russo isn't totally to blame, but it was fixable before him, but not after.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2020 16:28
|
|
|
I can't remember if it was Dave or someone else who said that pinning down who or what stupid person/thing killed WCW is like pinning down what cigarette gave you lung cancer. They all did.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2020 20:18
|
|
|
overmind2000 posted:Major Stash, because Private Stash wasn't high enough in the chain of command based on everything we know about Van Hammer, this was him making Russo sweat for funnies.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2020 22:52
|
|
|
overmind2000 posted:In terms of actual blame for the death of WCW? It's definitely not Russo, they were already past the point of no return by the time he was hired. If I had to pick one person I'd say Bischoff because him losing his mind during the battle for ratings led to a lot of stuff happening that started WCW's decline. By popular opinion though you'd be able to pick any of them with Russo coming in first. imo Bischoff lit the match (while being encouraged by Hall/Nash/Hogan, as Eric wanted their approval at all times), Nash kept the flame going by burying the Radicalz/Jericho/other talents they could have built around, and Russo poured gasoline on the whole thing. the internal office being a place where their left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing was no help either, as people like Zane Bresloff and Harvey Schiller who could either paper over the cracks or straighten out the corporate culture had been replaced in '98, and even Ted Turner was being sidelined due to more Time Warner people coming in and not having the personal attachment to wrestling that Ted did.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2020 02:18
|
|
|
Bill Busch was a bigger part of this than anybody ever talks about.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2020 03:26
|
|
|
Bill Busch was a behind-the-scenes guy nobody knows much about. Including me. What was Bill Busch's role in this?
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2020 14:27
|
|
|
I think he organised the live shows and did weird poo poo like actually make the company a bit of money edit: I may be thinking of someone else Trying fucked around with this message at 15:59 on May 3, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 3, 2020 15:57
|
|
|
oh but seriously I posted:I think he organised the live shows and did weird poo poo like actually make the company a bit of money That was Zane Bresloff. Bill Busch took over Turner Sports after Harvey Schiller left if memory serves.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2020 16:08
|
|
|
ChrisBTY posted:Bill Busch was a behind-the-scenes guy nobody knows much about. Including me. What was Bill Busch's role in this? I don't remember the full details of everything he did, but I know off hand that he was WCW's Vice President of Strategic Planning and replaced Eric Bischoff in 1999. He was the one who brought in Russo and Ferrara to be the head writers/bookers for the company. He eventually got rid of them three months later, the final straw apparently being that Russo wanted to put the world title on Tank Abbot, and made Kevin Sullivan the new booker. He was a divisive figure who didn't get along well with a good chunk of the roster, especially Chris Benoit. As a result a group of wrestlers that included Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko, Perry Saturn, Konnan, and Shane Douglas issued a complaint about having to work with Sullivan. Bill Busch initially told them he'd take Sullivan off Nitro and Thunder so they wouldn't have to work with him directly, only to turn around and send all of them home except for Benoit, as they had just had him win the world title in an attempt to placate him. Benoit refused to back down, and vacated the title the day after wining it. Surprisingly, Busch then actually sent release forms with no non-compete length to the Benoit and the others he'd sent home, perhaps thinking he'd call their bluff since they'd be giving up big WCW money contracts and that they were all Vanilla Midgets who WWF would never sign let alone push. Konnan and Douglas chose to stay in WCW since they both had issues with WWF/Vince that meant they probably wouldn't get signed, but the others all accepted their release and immediately signed deals with WWF, debuting as the Radicalz two weeks after Benoit had won the WCW title at Souled Out. Capn Combustible fucked around with this message at 16:50 on May 3, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 3, 2020 16:46
|
|
|
Capn Combustible posted:I don't remember the full details of everything he did, but I know off hand that he was WCW's Vice President of Strategic Planning and replaced Eric Bischoff in 1999. This isn't entirely true. Douglas was actually released. He thought he would be able to go to the WWF with the others but they blew him off. He ended up working for XPW before WCW brought him back. The Radicalz got their complete releases because Mike Graham pulled a knife on Saturn, Saturn went to the police and threatened to sue.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2020 20:48
|
|
|
Has anyone ever explained what Mike Graham's problem was in general? Nearly every story I hear of him, he has a pathological need to be an rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2020 20:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 10:27 |
|
|
coconono posted:Has anyone ever explained what Mike Graham's problem was in general? Nearly every story I hear of him, he has a pathological need to be an rear end in a top hat. I mean given how he ended up (as did his dad, his uncle, and his grandfather) he probably had some really deep mental/emotional issues...unless this is a different Mike Graham.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2020 21:20
|
|
