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fartknocker posted:No she didn't. She appeared in one episode, Empire, a season or two later about someone trying to build a football stadium and who got killed by viagra. You inspired me to look up the Law and Order franchise and I discovered both that SVU is still running and that whoever writes the episode summaries for the wiki page is really putting in a token effort at best not to give away the third-act twist in a lot of these:  But in their defense it kind of seems like English isn't their first language, so I'm willing to give them some credit. EDIT: although I guess the plot of most episodes is given away by the opening credits in each episode, where the one actor you recognize by name is usually the killer. I think Locke's dad from Lost and Michael Emerson each have the hat trick of being the killer once in Law and Order, Criminal Intent, and SVU. I AM GRANDO has a new favorite as of 16:49 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 16:47
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Promoted Pawn posted:That just sounds like they were referencing that one Russian doctor who had to perform his own appendectomy because he was the only doctor on their Antarctic base.
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May 7, 2020 16:48
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Original L&O, on the whole, was an excellent show. The interaction between the prosecutors and cops was great. They hosed up on the regular and lost a good number of cases. There's some episodes in the earlier seasons that aged pretty poorly though which I think I've mentioned before in this thread. There was one in particular with a mentally challenged teen being sexually assaulted by her classmates and whether she could legally give consent or not was the central issue. All the main characters throw around "retarded" like it's going out of style. Like, literally the DA going "McCoy we know this girl is retarded, but we need to you to find out exactly how retarded she is because the defense is claiming she's not retarded enough to not give consent". It was pretty loving shocking to hear today. The show also goes weirdly pro-death penalty for the seasons where it was legal in New York before making a pretty abrupt shift in the opposite direction. The few episodes I've seen of SVU are just a normal police procedural without that interplay and it's garbage.
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May 7, 2020 17:03
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More mouse bites!
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May 7, 2020 17:14
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Ghost Leviathan posted:This is almost a universal thing with so many shows: the writers are terrified of stable, healthy relationships. They write what they know. TV writers, directors, show-runners, and producers work crazy long hours, self-medicate with drugs and booze, and because of that, often have poo poo relationships and family lives. Antifa Turkeesian posted:You inspired me to look up the Law and Order franchise and I discovered both that SVU is still running and that whoever writes the episode summaries for the wiki page is really putting in a token effort at best not to give away the third-act twist in a lot of these: They bought Rollins' sister back? Right around the time she first showed up is around when I checked out. I could not stand her, and her constant cycle of abusive boyfriends, drugs, and Rollins complete inability to do anything about them because, "She's family! And, as you can tell from my sister's accent but not mine, for some reason, we're southern! And that means family sticks together!" Honestly, her sister was almost too REAL of a character...continuous problems with drug addiction, abusive partners, guilting her sister into "helping" her, etc...
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May 7, 2020 17:21
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You have to say this like Matt Berry or it doesn't count.
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May 7, 2020 17:29
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Pastry of the Year posted:You have to say this like Matt Berry or it doesn't count. What I like to do is get a can of soup, poach an egg in it, and serve that with a pork pie or sausage roll.
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May 7, 2020 17:36
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Pastry of the Year posted:You have to say this like Matt Berry or it doesn't count.  Gang tag when?
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May 7, 2020 17:40
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Original L&O, on the whole, was an excellent show. The interaction between the prosecutors and cops was great. They hosed up on the regular and lost a good number of cases. SVU has Ice-T making it the best by default
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May 7, 2020 19:33
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christmas boots posted:SVU has Ice-T making it the best by default 
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May 7, 2020 19:35
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Original L&O, on the whole, was an excellent show. The interaction between the prosecutors and cops was great. They hosed up on the regular and lost a good number of cases. To be fair though, you have to take L&O of a product of its time because thats probably how an old school prosecutor would of talked about something like that.
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May 7, 2020 19:38
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One of the reasons to watch silly show White Collar is that one of the two main characters is ten years into a loving healthy relationship with an equally busy and brilliant woman and you get to see them act like they love and enjoy each other. Another reason is both the male leads are very handsome.
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May 7, 2020 19:44
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Does Ice T have an advice column?
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May 7, 2020 19:51
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HopperUK posted:One of the reasons to watch silly show White Collar is that one of the two main characters is ten years into a loving healthy relationship with an equally busy and brilliant woman and you get to see them act like they love and enjoy each other. That show is peak USA-network light drama with some ~mystery~ going on in the background and a cast with amazing chemistry having a ton of fun.
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May 7, 2020 19:58
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Original L&O, on the whole, was an excellent show. The interaction between the prosecutors and cops was great. They hosed up on the regular and lost a good number of cases. Gotta love the euphemism treadmill! Stuff regarding mental issues in general has the fastest turnover from “technical term” to “whoooo boy don’t say that”, beating even racial terms. There’s some linguistic study about that but I can’t find it right now. The best law and order episode was Gunshow, where McCoy goes after a gun manufacturer after a mass shooting for having guns that were easy to convert to full auto. Reminds me of the bump stock thing after the Vegas shooting.
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May 7, 2020 20:12
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HopperUK posted:One of the reasons to watch silly show White Collar is that one of the two main characters is ten years into a loving healthy relationship with an equally busy and brilliant woman and you get to see them act like they love and enjoy each other. Apparently it has been off the air long enough that they're talking about doing a revival.
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May 7, 2020 21:51
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HopperUK posted:One of the reasons to watch silly show White Collar is that one of the two main characters is ten years into a loving healthy relationship with an equally busy and brilliant woman and you get to see them act like they love and enjoy each other. My now-husband, then-boyfriend had me watch White Collar with him, and while it was not something I would have watched on my own, the healthy and positive relationship between Peter and Elizabeth was one of its biggest selling points to me personally. I also feel this way about Tom and Joyce Barnaby on guilty pleasure Midsomer Murders, seemingly the only couple in the entire show who aren't explicitly having affairs against each other
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May 7, 2020 21:51
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fartknocker posted:No she didn't. She appeared in one episode, Empire, a season or two later about someone trying to build a football stadium and who got killed by viagra. Whoops, you're right. I confused her with Lauren Graham, it was weird to see Lorelai Gilmore II as a femme fatale. Ugly In The Morning posted:Gotta love the euphemism treadmill! Stuff regarding mental issues in general has the fastest turnover from “technical term” to “whoooo boy don’t say that”, beating even racial terms. There’s some linguistic study about that but I can’t find it right now. Yeah, because L&O was on for so long and had so many real life changes to keep up with, ethically it's aged better than it frequently has linguistically. Like Mike Logan is written out in season 5 for punching a gaybashing murderer who got away with it; he's legally wrong but morally right in both the gaze of the show and our views now, but it's presented as a much more difficult issue than it is today. Someone already mentioned the show going very gung-ho for the death penalty when it became legal in New York State again, which is true, but they'd debate the appropriateness to the situation, the validity of it as punishment in general, and so on. There's a fair number of times McCoy comments on it being not what he thinks is moral, but it is the best legal tool he has, so he pushes the death penalty. That's the real crucial part of "ripped from the headlines" - L&O's procedural form doesn't always make it a whodunit, but instead more frequently a moral conundrum or philosophical issue. It was very, very frequently a show that you didn't care about if the criminal got away or not, but that was more frequently a question of where you stood on the issues. There are episodes where you are hoping the prosecution will lose, because it's illustrated to be unjust. Speaking of McCoy and Gunshow, if you think House bends the rules a lot, you haven't seen anything yet. My personal favourite episode is Double Down, where McCoy tells Briscoe to his face not to tell him how the case is going, because that way he's technically not committing perjury when he goes in and flat-out lies to the court. Gunshow is McCoy going after the manufacturer because he fails to convict the shooter; "you can't legally do that!" "watch me." and McCoy's final closing gambit is to release a flood of bullets into the courtroom, one for each shot or shooting victim. It is an incredible, incredible scene. Law & Order won a lot of awards and was considered a prestige drama in its day for good reason.
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May 7, 2020 22:02
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Also house called Wilson's girlfriend to pick him up because he was drunk and she died
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May 7, 2020 22:20
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HopperUK posted:One of the reasons to watch silly show White Collar is that one of the two main characters is ten years into a loving healthy relationship with an equally busy and brilliant woman and you get to see them act like they love and enjoy each other. I'm trying to work out who you think the male leads are and drawing a blank on a second one.
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May 7, 2020 22:20
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sassassin posted:I'm trying to work out who you think the male leads are and drawing a blank on a second one. Are you thinking of the right show? I'm not being sarcastic, what you're saying literally makes no sense otherwise.
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May 7, 2020 22:21
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McCoy is a shark and won so goddamn much that around season 7/8 or so the writers had to start having him lose because they got letters about it. McCoys policy is also when a man kills his wife he goes to jail or gets the death penalty unlike those sleazy defense lawyers always getting in his way and doing everything they can to protect a murderer god I hate them so much
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May 7, 2020 23:11
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Arivia posted:
To be fair thought the twist in that episode is basically the last minute of the shower in which spoiler in case you are going to watch a 25 year old episode the judge basically says, you won on the emotional argument but failed to prove your legal case and overturns the jury decisions.
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May 7, 2020 23:20
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Mooseontheloose posted:To be fair thought the twist in that episode is basically the last minute of the shower in which spoiler in case you are going to watch a 25 year old episode the judge basically says, you won on the emotional argument but failed to prove your legal case and overturns the jury decisions. It was more this is absolutely losing on appeal and I don’t want them to make a Supreme Court case out of it, IIRC. Similar, but less “I think you’re straight up wrong” and more “I don’t want this poisoning the well in the future”
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May 7, 2020 23:23
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oldpainless posted:McCoy is a shark and won so goddamn much that around season 7/8 or so the writers had to start having him lose because they got letters about it. McCoys policy is also when a man kills his wife he goes to jail or gets the death penalty unlike those sleazy defense lawyers always getting in his way and doing everything they can to protect a murderer god I hate them so much I always thought the defense lawyers usually came off as sympathetic. The exception was the two lawyers they always trotted out for lovely rich people. Those guys were always bastards. That being said I would have loved to have watched "Law and Order: McCoy is hauled in front of an appeals court again" Speaking of things not aging well: McCoy's reputation for dating his subordinates. Mr Luxury Yacht has a new favorite as of 23:31 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 23:27
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Honestly, while I gather this is a problem with the late seasons way more than it's a problem with the early seasons (and this also tends to often get dismissed with "lol it's an American cop show you're stating the obvious"), SVU kind of galls me in just how perfectly it's constructed to serve as propaganda in favor of police brutality. The cop characters are essentially a bunch of hosed up monsters who "solve" every case by immediately using their "intuition" to determine a target regardless of available evidence, abusing (sometimes threatening to jail or kill) witnesses until they finger the target, and then either browbeating or literally-actually-beating a confession out of the target. The show then makes its cast of villains exclusively sex monsters, so that anyone who calls this out appears to be defending rapists and pedophiles. Defense attorneys are almost invariably portrayed as people who know for a fact their client is guilty, do not care, and are taking the job primarily because they themselves love rape, rather than because even the worst people deserve a fair trial. Hell, even the idea that one of their potential perps might not be the right guy very very rarely comes up, and almost every time I see SVU it's an episode where the audience is expected to immediately agree with Benson or Stabler's gut. Even the worst "typical" cop show has cowboy antics get answered with IA investigations and, generally, a dramatic "YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR, TURN IN YOUR BADGE AND GUN" scene; SVU, meanwhile, has it generally be the expected and desired behavior for its police characters (I understand they eventually broke from this with Stabler to facilitate him leaving the show, but it's definitely not something they do very often).
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May 7, 2020 23:46
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Polaron posted:Are you thinking of the right show? Yeah, White Collar has the former criminal and FBI agent as the leads...I guess the criminal has more screen time, but they're definitely both leads, and you wouldn't struggle to think who the other was. Maybe he was thinking of one of the many other "character based" drama shows USA had on at thew same time? Burn Notice? (Former spy) Royal Pains? (Former doctor) Monk? (Former cop) Man, USA shows have a formula to them, don't they?
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May 7, 2020 23:47
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:I always thought the defense lawyers usually came off as sympathetic. The exception was the two lawyers they always trotted out for lovely rich people. Those guys were always bastards. in order: yeah, the defense lawyers are usually pretty sympathetic. Like remember Shambala Green, who appeared in a bunch of episodes early on to tell Stone to stop prosecuting black youth so harshly over gun crime? Or Danielle Melnick, Stone and McCoy's nemesis? This is why it made sense for Robinette to show up later as a defense attorney, the show made their voices count and be respectable advocates for their clients and their issues. Also if you've never seen it, Season 8 ends with McCoy almost getting disbarred; he gets censured over hiding a witness from the defense so he can win a case. McCoy definitely went too far a fair amount of the time. And didn't the thing about him dating his subordinates actually pop up later as a gotcha in a case? Like one of the past ADAs tells the current one about McCoy doing that to try and force her off a case (I seem to think it was maybe Jamie Ross to Connie Rubirosa?) Because we all knew it happened with Kincaid, the gotcha was that it had kept going (and maybe explained the whole Southerlyn lesbian breakdown at her firing.)
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May 8, 2020 00:01
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:Honestly, while I gather this is a problem with the late seasons way more than it's a problem with the early seasons (and this also tends to often get dismissed with "lol it's an American cop show you're stating the obvious"), SVU kind of galls me in just how perfectly it's constructed to serve as propaganda in favor of police brutality.
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May 8, 2020 00:02
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Cop shows basically always end up as fascist propaganda because the needs of the mystery genre end up making the cops always correct and righteous in their pursuit of the truth. It’s a shame the format isn’t adapted to contexts other than police just because the police are supposed to solve crimes as their jobs (this isn’t actually the purpose of police). Like, there’s nothing wrong with “do-gooders protect the innocent and solve mysteries, but it’s better for our culture if it’s wandering knights or the A-Team, because copaganda literally lets them get away with murder. Also goddamn does it make tv writers lazy. There was a tv show a few years ago about Neil Gaiman 90s goth satan running a nightclub and the hook of the show was that he helps the police solve mysteries.
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May 8, 2020 00:13
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DrBouvenstein posted:
Characters are welcome after all.
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May 8, 2020 00:13
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Cop shows basically always end up as fascist propaganda because the needs of the mystery genre end up making the cops always correct and righteous in their pursuit of the truth. Lucifer is still being made, its on Netflix now and is actually pretty good as procedurals go. As for non-police do gooders protecting the innocent I think I heard they are rebooting Leverage in the near future.
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May 8, 2020 00:16
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oldpainless posted:SVU is about the police being transformed and affected by their constant exposure to some of the worst crimes. Dealing with it constantly desensitizes them and takes away their humanity and capacity for empathy and/or understanding. They’re left mostly as hateful and violent people because of what they deal with. They’re basically not even the people they were even a few years ago. It’s why Stabler becomes more and more unstabler. Yeah, that whole thing is very much an SVU trope and it makes sense. It’s why IRL sex crimes detectives are typically rotated out, but that doesn’t work with a long running TV show where people are invested in the characters, so at least they ran with it. And SVU did the “detective’s home life” stuff better than most procedurals, with Stabler and his kids to show how his work made him completely paranoid and why his work jacked him up so much.
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May 8, 2020 00:16
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Columbo was a good cop.
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May 8, 2020 00:17
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Lucifer is a loving poo poo tier show
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May 8, 2020 00:20
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:Honestly, while I gather this is a problem with the late seasons way more than it's a problem with the early seasons (and this also tends to often get dismissed with "lol it's an American cop show you're stating the obvious"), SVU kind of galls me in just how perfectly it's constructed to serve as propaganda in favor of police brutality. Chicago PD is even worse and it doesn't even have the excuse of being a Special Victims Unit, it's just 1 hour of police brutality every episode.
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May 8, 2020 00:42
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Does Ice T have an advice column? If he does it should be called Advice-T
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May 8, 2020 00:59
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Cop shows basically always end up as fascist propaganda because the needs of the mystery genre end up making the cops always correct and righteous in their pursuit of the truth. So... Arrow? Pretty sure you're asking for Arrow. Superheroes in general have a sort of weird situation to strike, but it's more conceptual--you're always working with people that are essentially Just Plain Better than others, which doesn't sit right for some. But Arrow and its related shows tend to have their heads in the right places, and with the potential exception of The Flash (depends how much you care for working with the cops rather than as them) they're more or less what you're looking for, I think. Early Arrow, especially.
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May 8, 2020 01:07
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:Hell, even the idea that one of their potential perps might not be the right guy very very rarely comes up. tbh this is the most effective way of conveying why a fair and just due process is essential for a healthy, functioning legal system ... you need have some depictions where the detectives are wrong the majority of the time - either because they're canvassing a wide array of people or because the usual suspects didn't do it for once - until eventually through diligent work they narrow it down if you had the intuition of detectives fail to determine the 'right' guy immediately, if they frequently went overboard and abused actual innocent people by threatening to jail or kill them, if they harassed non-participants by barging into their homes w/o warrants and if they were otherwise depicted as browbeating/physically beating unrelated bystanders into submission the audience would definitely understand why some dudes should actually turn in their badges because these kinds of investigations just interfere with real police work as long as you have protagonists who're never wrong it's possible to fall into the trap of thinking all this legality stuff is just red tape holding them back e: nice protagonists who already follow fair & just due process but are never wrong are more-or-less okay btw, it's mostly the rear end in a top hat anti-heroes who need to be wrong regularly to drive this point home hard counter has a new favorite as of 01:52 on May 8, 2020 |
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May 8, 2020 01:10
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Ghost Leviathan posted:This is almost a universal thing with so many shows: the writers are terrified of stable, healthy relationships. That's probably more of a mark against the audience. The Office is what's usually used as an example with me, people talk about how once Jim and Pam finally get married they stop being fun, because people were more invested in the "Will they? Won't they?" aspect. Once you take that away, there's nothing left to anticipate.
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