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small ghost
Jan 30, 2013

sweeperbravo posted:

My now-husband, then-boyfriend had me watch White Collar with him, and while it was not something I would have watched on my own, the healthy and positive relationship between Peter and Elizabeth was one of its biggest selling points to me personally.

I also feel this way about Tom and Joyce Barnaby on guilty pleasure Midsomer Murders, seemingly the only couple in the entire show who aren't explicitly having affairs against each other

I've been binging primo guilty pleasure comfort show Midsomer Murders while stuck in the house, and while there's a lot in the earlier seasons that could go in this thread (mostly wild homophobia and transphobia of that particularly late 90s/00s flavour), Tom and Joyce's relationship is just the best.

They don't cheat on each other and they're not even tempted for dramatic conflict; Tom takes Joyce's concerns about his job and annoyances when he's called away seriously, instead of treating her as an obstacle; Joyce constantly flits from hobby to hobby but Tom always supports her interests (even though one or more of her new hobbyist group will 100% get murdered/murder someone every time); Joyce doesn't hate Tom's job or get unreasonably angry with him if he's late to something because of all the murders, and he makes a good faith effort to not get held up by all the murders not because he doesn't want her to be angry with him, but because he doesn't want to let her down.

It's my second favourite thing about the show, after the repeated motif where someone new to Midsomer county will bring up the insane murder rate and all the regular characters just kinda shrug like "well the schools are good".

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purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

Solice Kirsk posted:

Everyone is a piece of poo poo with the only exception, possibly in the history of the world, being Fred Rogers.

I've seen people wanting to add Bob Ross and Steve Irwin to this list. I don't know enough about either of them to really make a judgment

Pastry of the Year
Apr 12, 2013

purple death ray posted:

I've seen people wanting to add Bob Ross and Steve Irwin to this list. I don't know enough about either of them to really make a judgment

unironic gentleness is something people took for granted until the supply dried up

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

He's outta line...

But he's right!

Solice Kirsk posted:

Everyone is a piece of poo poo with the only exception, possibly in the history of the world, being Fred Rogers.

Jim Henson?

Sweevo
Nov 8, 2007

i sometimes throw cables away

i mean straight into the bin without spending 10+ years in the box of might-come-in-handy-someday first

im a fucking monster

Tony Hart

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Carl Sagan

Yngwie Mangosteen
Aug 23, 2007
Tony Hawk

King of Foolians
Mar 16, 2006
Long live the King!
Dolly Parton and Betty White.

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth

HopperUK posted:

Lol Tim DeKay isn't good-looking, okay.



This guy? He's TV "average" at best. Like a sitcom dad.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

Pastry of the Year posted:

unironic gentleness is something people took for granted until the supply dried up
:hmmyes:

They're also all dead. That's why the campaigns to sanctify them are puerile on their face. Look at NDT or Bill Nye, or even LeVar Burton and Neil Gaiman for examples of living men who would absolutely be up on the Redditor Saint Wall had they died before Twitter became a thing.

That's why it's hard to decry the campaigns to celebrate them, because putting them on a pedestal makes a certain amount of sense-- they all promoted non-partisan values you'd have to be a genuine sociopath to deny are worthwhile, so dragging their names through the mud only tarnishes the luster of said values.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me



It's like...he's fine, I guess, but put him up against Bomer especially and there's no comparison.

edit: It's like, if they were drawn or animated characters, they're from completely different genres of media somehow on at the same time.

marshmallow creep has a new favorite as of 22:56 on May 8, 2020

purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

Do I want to know what levar burton did :ohdear:

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

purple death ray posted:

Do I want to know what levar burton did :ohdear:
Oh nothing. He's just someone that would be easy to sanctify if he wasn't alive and still doing Kickstarted Reading Rainbow episodes and Podcast Speaking Tours. Dude rules.

But he's not dead. Redditors and weirdos need to feel that the modern age is a "lost" one where good men are all dead. It gets them off in a narrative sense.

Gaiman too seems like a cool dude, but it's hard to sanctify him when he's still making middling adaptations of his short stories for the BBC while his (ex?)-wife makes their marriage a public spectacle on social media.

marshmallow creep posted:


It's like...he's fine, I guess, but put him up against Bomer especially and there's no comparison.

I could put Bohmer in the Galleria dell'Accademia next to the David and it would be no comparison. The man is the kind of beautiful that makes you angry.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?
Oh sure, Matt Bomer is ridiculously good-looking, but he's younger than me and so he's just in the 'what a handsome boy, his mother must be so proud' sort of area. Each to their own :D

Dirt Road Junglist
Oct 8, 2010

We will be cruel
And through our cruelty
They will know who we are

mind the walrus posted:

Gaiman too seems like a cool dude, but it's hard to sanctify him when he's still making middling adaptations of his short stories for the BBC while his (ex?)-wife makes their marriage a public spectacle on social media.

Gaiman's said some suspect poo poo about the legality of child porn, and his trans opinions skew TERFy. I feel okay saying he's not that great.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Gaiman hosed Amanda Palmer and decided that wasn't enough self-absorbed lovely human pussy and polyfucked erica moen as well

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

Dirt Road Junglist posted:

Gaiman's said some suspect poo poo about the legality of child porn, and his trans opinions skew TERFy. I feel okay saying he's not that great.

Pick posted:

Gaiman hosed Amanda Palmer and decided that wasn't enough self-absorbed lovely human pussy and polyfucked erica moen as well
I wouldn't be shocked but I genuinely don't know and it's not like I have any interest one way or the other. I'm just saying he's the kind of soft-spoken, gentle humanist with a slight intellectual bent that would absolutely get him deified alongside Bob Ross, Steve Irwin, and Fred Rogers if he had died in 2008.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

mind the walrus posted:

:hmmyes:

They're also all dead. That's why the campaigns to sanctify them are puerile on their face. Look at NDT or Bill Nye, or even LeVar Burton and Neil Gaiman for examples of living men who would absolutely be up on the Redditor Saint Wall had they died before Twitter became a thing.

I would say Bill Nye and LeVar Burton absolutely have the exact same kind of modern sainthood despite being living

Gaiman, not so much, I feel like he was on his way there but marrying Amanda Palmer (who is an absolutely comically awful person) kind of took the shine off his star even before some of his weirder opinions came out

purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

Yeah that's why I was wondering about levar, I thought it was a list of people who would have been 'sanctified' if they had died before the terrible thing they did became public. Like you put NDT on there and he got me-tooed almost as soon as the movement got started

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

NDT tried really hard but it was over for him the instant he got Twitter. Dude could not stop being a pompous STEM stereotype in spite of himself.

But really the key is that you need to have the halo of death on you to be deified.

LeVar Burton is probably a very nice man. He's also had to deal with Star Trek fans asking him questions about the Warp Core for over 30 years. He still works with people and has bad days, not to mention the exacting standards of authority one would expect from an accomplished director. Bill Nye to, minus the Trek and Director stuff. While much of the public writ large may deify them, they don't have that final push necessary.

Meanwhile literally everyone who worked with Steve Irwin is now 14 years removed from the last time they saw him, and that's the earliest example from the Reddit cadre of male Saints. So even the people closest have filtered out the more humanizing memories and make sure to say nice stuff whenever press vultures come by. That increases the halo effect. That's what makes them saints.

mind the walrus has a new favorite as of 23:31 on May 8, 2020

hard counter
Jan 2, 2015





i think some of the sheen came off bill nye, perhaps unfairly, when he was doing the television special thing - iirc by taking a stance on the controversial issue of modern gender he was either being too progressive or not nearly progressive enough and by being his usual wacky self he was either being too awkward or was simply making a serious subject too light

his heart was probably in the right place, it's just that these issues can be so divisive you're likely gonna lose some of that general good will one way or another

artsy fartsy
May 10, 2014

You'll be ahead instead of behind. Hello!
I've never seen any of the Law and Orders--which is the best?

I conflated it with NCIS a while back and watched a bunch of those, but they were pretty bad. The main thing I remember is a scene where one of the nerds was either hacking a computer or trying to stop their computer being hacked by pounding away at a keyboard, but they weren't doing it fast enough, so another nerd started typing on the same keyboard at the same time

rydiafan
Mar 17, 2009


artsy fartsy posted:

I've never seen any of the Law and Orders--which is the best?

Classic. Start from the beginning and stop once Jerry Orbach leaves.

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs 🎤of siren 🧜🏻‍♀️songs
To oohs😮 to ahhs😱 to 👏big👏applause👏
With all of my 😡anger I scream🤬 and shout📢
🇺🇸America🦅, I love you 🥰but you're freaking 💦me 😳out
Biscuit Hider

hard counter posted:

i think some of the sheen came off bill nye, perhaps unfairly, when he was doing the television special thing - iirc by taking a stance on the controversial issue of modern gender he was either being too progressive or not nearly progressive enough and by being his usual wacky self he was either being too awkward or was simply making a serious subject too light

his heart was probably in the right place, it's just that these issues can be so divisive you're likely gonna lose some of that general good will one way or another

IIRC there was a musical number that was pretty cringey, but well-intentioned cringe is hardly on the same level as some of the scummy stuff lovely people get up to.

I think the worst thing you could say about Rogers is that he convinced a gay man to get married to a woman, but that one’s been told to death, Clemmons doesn’t hold it against him, and things were different pre-Stonewall.

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012


Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.



Wedge Regret

artsy fartsy posted:

I've never seen any of the Law and Orders--which is the best?

rydiafan posted:

Classic. Start from the beginning and stop once Jerry Orbach leaves.

Pretty much this, which still gets you like 14 full seasons that are all mostly good stuff.

The next few seasons aren’t bad, but aren’t particularly good either, just eh. Season 17 has been mentioned a few times as the lowest point, almost entirely due to Detective Cassidy being pretty awful in every aspect, but after that, the last 3 years have a cast that worked really well together and it was a return to mostly solid stuff.

TheKennedys
Sep 23, 2006

By my hand, I will take you from this godforsaken internet

artsy fartsy posted:

I've never seen any of the Law and Orders--which is the best?

I conflated it with NCIS a while back and watched a bunch of those, but they were pretty bad. The main thing I remember is a scene where one of the nerds was either hacking a computer or trying to stop their computer being hacked by pounding away at a keyboard, but they weren't doing it fast enough, so another nerd started typing on the same keyboard at the same time

that scene is simultaneously the dumbest thing ever put on television and a perfect encapsulation of why NCIS owned (it didn't really bother taking itself seriously despite being a Very Serious Military Show). It is a very dumb show though.

Dirt Road Junglist
Oct 8, 2010

We will be cruel
And through our cruelty
They will know who we are

Pick posted:

Gaiman hosed Amanda Palmer and decided that wasn't enough self-absorbed lovely human pussy and polyfucked erica moen as well

Oh god. I was at Palmer's book reading in Portland when Moen was on stage as part of the round-table, but did not know that tidbit :barf: In my defense, a friend is a fan, needed a ride, had a spare ticket, and bought me dinner.

mind the walrus posted:

I wouldn't be shocked but I genuinely don't know and it's not like I have any interest one way or the other. I'm just saying he's the kind of soft-spoken, gentle humanist with a slight intellectual bent that would absolutely get him deified alongside Bob Ross, Steve Irwin, and Fred Rogers if he had died in 2008.

That's fair! Will agree with that.

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.

rydiafan posted:

Classic. Start from the beginning and stop once Jerry Orbach leaves.

The first five or six season of SVU are good, too.

Technically, when Benson leaves (for the first time) is a little bit past the good years, but it's a good enough stopping point off the top of my head.

I mean, still some stinkers in there, always are, but not like anything in the past 10 years or so where every single one is ham-fisted "ripped from the headlines" garbage".

My favorite ep of SVU is probably "Manhunt." It's a great Munch episode, and he doesn't get enough times to shine.

Two other great Munch episodes are the ones where Marlee Marlin guest stars.

Ambitious Spider
Feb 13, 2012



Lipstick Apathy

DrBouvenstein posted:

The first five or six season of SVU are good, too.

Technically, when Benson leaves (for the first time) is a little bit past the good years, but it's a good enough stopping point off the top of my head.

I mean, still some stinkers in there, always are, but not like anything in the past 10 years or so where every single one is ham-fisted "ripped from the headlines" garbage".

My favorite ep of SVU is probably "Manhunt." It's a great Munch episode, and he doesn't get enough times to shine.

Two other great Munch episodes are the ones where Marlee Marlin guest stars.

not SVU, but the Munch episode of X-Files is pretty great.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

hard counter posted:

i think some of the sheen came off bill nye, perhaps unfairly, when he was doing the television special thing - iirc by taking a stance on the controversial issue of modern gender he was either being too progressive or not nearly progressive enough and by being his usual wacky self he was either being too awkward or was simply making a serious subject too light

his heart was probably in the right place, it's just that these issues can be so divisive you're likely gonna lose some of that general good will one way or another

it's also really awkward to go back and watch that stuff now because one of his assistants is karlie kloss, who went maga-chud by marrying into the kushner family

also L&O chat: definitely watch vanilla up to and through orbach's years, which yeah is like 14 seasons. and then yes you can pick back up again from season 18 when cassady leaves and cutter arrives. you miss 3 seasons, one senior detective, two junior detectives, and one ADA. None of them are particularly amazing, and you skip some truly bad poo poo from Cassady and Arthur Branch. Joe Fontana is good, but not worth the rest of the crap.

Also check out CI if you want to see one man go progressively insane from eating scenery and nothing but. It's a one-note show: you either like Vincent D'Onofrio's Detective Goren or you don't.

Koalas March
May 21, 2007



The only thing I know about Amanda Palmer is she wrote an entire ukulele song about why she should be allowed to say friend of the family. That tells me pretty much everything.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Koalas March posted:

The only thing I know about Amanda Palmer is she wrote an entire ukulele song about why she should be allowed to say friend of the family. That tells me pretty much everything.

That's extremely Amanda Palmer but she also used a clip of her dead ex-boyfriend finding her after she pretended to commit suicide, in a song.

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012


Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.



Wedge Regret
Also, if we’re talking the original Law & Order and SVU’s John Munch, you may wanna look up Homicide: Life on the Street. They crossed over two or three times during the late 90s, and while I haven’t seen much of it in forever since it’s not in syndication like L&O, I recall it generally being good too.

Koalas March
May 21, 2007



Pick posted:

That's extremely Amanda Palmer but she also used a clip of her dead ex-boyfriend finding her after she pretended to commit suicide, in a song.

What the gently caress. Did he consent to that or was it after he died? What a loving creep

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003

TheKennedys posted:

that scene is simultaneously the dumbest thing ever put on television and a perfect encapsulation of why NCIS owned (it didn't really bother taking itself seriously despite being a Very Serious Military Show). It is a very dumb show though.

NCIS is way about analyzing the characters via murder. Too bad Weatherly turned out to be a creep.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

Koalas March posted:

What the gently caress. Did he consent to that or was it after he died? What a loving creep
After the ex-boyfriend died. Palmer is very much a kind-of garbage person and Gaiman marrying her was a very weird tell about the kind-of man he must be in his private life. I imagine a lot of people who both know him personally and who only know him like we do as a parasocial personality are ecstatic that their marriage seems to be almost done.

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.

Arivia posted:

Also check out CI if you want to see one man go progressively insane from eating scenery and nothing but. It's a one-note show: you either like Vincent D'Onofrio's Detective Goren or you don't.

And then in the latter run it was Jeff Goldblum basically playing the same character.

rydiafan
Mar 17, 2009


I literally don't remember which television show it was on, because he's been in so many of them, but there's a scene where some punk that they're interrogating misreads Detective Munch's badge as "defective monk", and that has been my Diablo necromancer name ever since.

I think it was the crossover between Homicide and classic Law & Order.

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs 🎤of siren 🧜🏻‍♀️songs
To oohs😮 to ahhs😱 to 👏big👏applause👏
With all of my 😡anger I scream🤬 and shout📢
🇺🇸America🦅, I love you 🥰but you're freaking 💦me 😳out
Biscuit Hider

fartknocker posted:

Also, if we’re talking the original Law & Order and SVU’s John Munch, you may wanna look up Homicide: Life on the Street. They crossed over two or three times during the late 90s, and while I haven’t seen much of it in forever since it’s not in syndication like L&O, I recall it generally being good too.

So there’s a famous episode of St. Elsewhere that implies that the entire show takes place in the imagination of an autistic child named Tommy Westphall.

So some people decided that any show that had a crossover or character cameo with St. Elsewhere was part of this “Westphall Universe” and shows that crossed over with those shows were as well and so on and so on.

Last I checked there were dozens (maybe even up into the hundreds?) of shows that had been folded in and John Munch was responsibility for a staggeringly large number of them.

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Zaroff
Nov 10, 2009

Nothing in the world can stop me now!

Arivia posted:

Joe Fontana is good, but not worth the rest of the crap.

Did they explain what his deal was? I remember there was a point made about how he seemed to have a lot more money than a cop should, driving flashy cars and so on, but don't remember any explanation as to why (IIRC there were rumours of him being paid off by the mob?)

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