|
Factorio. Satisfactory is factorio lite but in 3d.
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 16:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 08:42 |
|
|
There's arguments for both sides here. Factorio has more complex ratios but you can completely pave over them with bus concepts. Building overflows and bus type stuff in Satisfactory is a bother so you actually have an impetus to follow the ratios exactly per final good even if they are a bit simpler of a journey from raw to final.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 16:51
|
|
|
Samopsa posted:Factorio. Satisfactory is factorio lite but in 3d. After watching a satisfactory video on running fluids I’m not so sure.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 16:56
|
|
|
dogstile posted:I mean, same. But that's not how its supposed to work in the real world, it just happens due to any number of reasons, including signalling fuckups, trains being late, etc. The game doesn't model fuckups because its not fun. The game doesn't model timetables either since you end up with a bunch of trains piling up on the same platform. Either use timetables (player or machine generated) so you can have Model Choo Choo Play Time, AND don't abstract out the station design and force the player to make decisions about what cargo can be loaded and unloaded where and how OR Provide automatic routing because it's a game and your computer has the processing power in the Future Year of 2020 to handle it, if OpenTTD can, and because requiring that level of detail reduces the game to a spreadsheet simulator. There's got to be thought beyond "well you have to pick the platform ahead of time in the real world, so  "
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 17:16
|
|
|
In Factorio, you can avoid basically all of the math by "just build more", and it's very cheap to expand. Playing "suboptimally" is not a big problem as the worst case scenario is that you use up your resources slower and they last longer. Alternatively, you can install mods that have various calculators that do the math for you (which are confusing to use but powerful). In Satisfactory, the math is a constant constraint and you are punished much more for not doing the math. Machines are more expensive in terms of land, time use, and resources so you can't just overbuild the way you can in Factorio.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 17:19
|
|
|
esquilax posted:In Factorio, you can avoid basically all of the math by "just build more", and it's very cheap to expand. Playing "suboptimally" is not a big problem as the worst case scenario is that you use up your resources slower and they last longer. Alternatively, you can install mods that have various calculators that do the math for you (which are confusing to use but powerful). Yeah this is what I'm beginning to see from watching various videos. Hmmmm. Got 29 year old son to buy Satisfactory for a co op day on Mothers day but I'll have to see if I can convince him to try Factorio instead......
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 17:37
|
|
|
Factorio also has a random map generator. Now admittedly, it doesn't matter all that much, since the maps are functionally irrelevant (basically, all you really care about in these games are finding the locations of the 3-4 relevant major resources and building around it). That being said, I can't stand games in this genre that have fixed maps/scenarios with no procedural/random maps/missions, so if that makes a difference to you like it does to me, Factorio would be the way to go.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 18:46
|
|
|
Thats the biggest drawbavk with Dawn of Man IMO, fixed maps, terrible ones at that. Feels like you are fighting the map layout rather than the mechanics. Anno 1404 was a lot more fun when starting with a few ships but no island. Those ships are critical in getting enough tools to get your own supply chain up and running. I did set up a trade route in my first game but it took 30 minutes of fast forward to get some tools.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 19:18
|
|
|
Mayveena posted:Hmmm, they just introduced Dang it. I can’t wait to fight through it’s horrible placement and UI again but this game can’t keep me away. I didn’t realize they added ships, too!
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 19:29
|
|
|
I know Autonauts has been discussed a fair bit here, and I see that it is on sale. How "done" is it for an early access game? The main negative reviews on Steam decry that there really isn't much game there, and if it really isn't fleshed out or doesn't have things like victory conditions, etc., then I don't want it yet.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 19:33
|
|
|
SlyFrog posted:Factorio also has a random map generator. Now admittedly, it doesn't matter all that much, since the maps are functionally irrelevant (basically, all you really care about in these games are finding the locations of the 3-4 relevant major resources and building around it). That being said, I can't stand games in this genre that have fixed maps/scenarios with no procedural/random maps/missions, so if that makes a difference to you like it does to me, Factorio would be the way to go. Satisfactory is big enough that by the time most folks will have a starting location memorized they’ve probably hit burnout on the systems more than once. Also, as far as math goes Satisfactory just added or will add in the next update a calculator to the character UI, which I’m devoutly hoping will be hotkey-able. Almost all of the math until you get to petro-fluids is based around whole-number multiples of fifteen, and once you get into more math-heavy ratios you probably have sufficient machine-overclocking supplies that you can just adjust input demand on the final one or two production steps for a particular widget to require fewer mental decimal -> fraction conversions. Factorio definitely has more mature options in terms of player-built math UI tools packaged into mods, though as stated some have their own learning curves to effectively utilize.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 19:34
|
|
|
I find Factorio way harder than Satisfactory, but a big part of that is that three dimensions makes it much easier to organize conveyor belts and power poles, which can be directed pretty freely between two points instead of having to plan for the spacing of every tile, which was a major roadblock to my enjoyment of Factorio. The "you get punished for not doing the math" angle is weird to me because the structures definitely don't feel prohibitively expensive, and you can just as easily build a main bus line in Satisfactory as you would in Factorio.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 19:45
|
|
|
SlyFrog posted:I know Autonauts has been discussed a fair bit here, and I see that it is on sale. There's more than enough content to keep you busy. It took me around 60 hours to get to the final (current) tech level. There aren't any victory conditions other than reaching the top tech level, and I'm not sure if that's going to change. The reason for the negative reviews is that they released the game as complete, when it obviously wasn't. If they'd released under EA, it would have been fine. Many games, especially builders, have released into EA in significantly earlier stages than Autonauts. That said, the devs are still developing it and if you want a polished experience it may be better to wait. They recently added a lot of QoL stuff that makes me want to start over, but I think I'll wait until the game is done.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 19:50
|
|
|
Radiation Cow posted:There's more than enough content to keep you busy. It took me around 60 hours to get to the final (current) tech level. There aren't any victory conditions other than reaching the top tech level, and I'm not sure if that's going to change. Great information, thank you. I find in these situations that describing what you don't want is sometimes taken as some sort of "attack" on the game. It in no way is. It's just that everyone has something slightly different in terms of what they are looking for in a game. 30+ years ago, I basically had to play whatever was close enough, because there really wasn't that much choice. Now, with there being so many games in each genre, there is no way to play them all, so it just makes the most sense for me to hone in on the ones that more exactly fit what I was looking for. Like with Satisfactory as I mentioned earlier - there's nothing "wrong" with a game without a procedural map generator. Same thing for games without game set goals/victory conditions. I just don't like games without some randomness, and I don't like sandbox only games without non-player created goals, so it doesn't make sense for me to play those, when there are other games in the genre that more closely align with the game elements I like. Other people have no problems with those elements, and so I'm glad the games work for them. We're truly in a blessed time, where there is pretty much something for everyone. Thanks for the feedback. 
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 20:11
|
|
|
So I got Jurassic World Evolution and so far I think it's pretty interesting but like I have some questions. What do I do with rocks??
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 20:23
|
|
|
SlyFrog posted:I know Autonauts has been discussed a fair bit here, and I see that it is on sale. Well the good news is that the world is indeed random . Like Factorio, it doesn't really matter much though, as most things in the game can be moved to where you want them to be. The last tier of research in the game will be released this month. I suspect the sale is because of that and that the game may go up in price after that release. So many (in my opinion) idiots decry 'early access games' when in fact 'early access' is a label and really isn't indicative of anything whatsoever. Factorio is still in 'early access' for example, and I had over 1,000 hours in Oxygen Not Included while it was in early access, had a great time. You can get a refund on both Steam and Epic if you don't like a game, buy it if you are interested and worry less about the label.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 20:27
|
|
|
Vib Rib posted:I find Factorio way harder than Satisfactory, but a big part of that is that three dimensions makes it much easier to organize conveyor belts and power poles, which can be directed pretty freely between two points instead of having to plan for the spacing of every tile, which was a major roadblock to my enjoyment of Factorio. The "you get punished for not doing the math" angle is weird to me because the structures definitely don't feel prohibitively expensive, and you can just as easily build a main bus line in Satisfactory as you would in Factorio. I don't know, I had a lot of building issues due to the terrain in Satisfactory and the cost of some things, that made it seem very space constrained. E.g. it would have taken literal hours to get enough copper to build a pipeline/pumps back to my base using my one copper node, so I belted the coal over to the water area. The only good accessible spot was against a mountain, so I struggled to fit 2 pumps and 4 generators there. And any time there was an issue I had to run 5 minutes there to fix it. I was not able to "overbuild" due to lack of resources and space and time. I also constantly ran into power issues in Satisfactory, which breaks your entire Factory if your ratio is off instead of just slowing it down like in Factorio.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 21:44
|
|
|
dogstile posted:I mean, same. But that's not how its supposed to work in the real world, it just happens due to any number of reasons, including signalling fuckups, trains being late, etc. The game doesn't model fuckups because its not fun. You're just making me want to play SimSig. Mayveena posted:So which is harder/mathier Satisfactory or Factorio? I'm not great with math sadly The only math you really need in Factorio is more. One of the things I like about Factorio compared to, say, Rise of Industry is that the interface is naturally clear. If you see a bare spot on a belt somewhere, go find/make more of whatever is supposed to be there. Intermediate Mode is just stuff like "this thing needs one bloop per second and two blops per half second so I need 1 bloop assembler and 4 blop assemblers per thing assembler." Or you just keep your belts full of bloops and blops and ignore the math. PerniciousKnid fucked around with this message at 22:46 on May 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 22:36
|
|
|
GreenBuckanneer posted:So I got Jurassic World Evolution and so far I think it's pretty interesting but like I have some questions. Make things look pretty. Thats it.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 23:46
|
|
|
Just Offscreen posted:Make things look pretty. Thats it. No I meant from expeditions. I guess they're just trash you sell. EDIT: These friggin dinos are like "I'm angry and it's overcrowded I'm going to bash down this fence!" *tranq and puts animal way on the other side of the enclosure* "I'm lonely and I'm going to bash down this fence!" 
GreenBuckanneer fucked around with this message at 00:53 on May 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 00:48
|
|
|
GreenBuckanneer posted:No I meant from expeditions. I guess they're just trash you sell. "I'm under-trained for this! I'll quit!" *trains* "I'm overqualified, I quit." It would also explain the horrifying mutations they could suffer sometimes 
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 01:52
|
|
|
Jurassic World sounds a lot less fun than Planet Zoo Coaster.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 02:08
|
|
|
You know, it was too subtle for me before but in retrospect the “load balance everything” approach of satisfactory and others is what I like, and is why factorio and other similar management games that benefit from that style of “build more” don’t click as well.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 02:08
|
|
|
PerniciousKnid posted:Jurassic World sounds a lot less fun than Planet Zoo Coaster. I really did not enjoy Jurassic World. There's some fun to be had in seeing the dinosaurs running around in your enclosures I guess but I found it pretty dull with not much room for perfecting your park visually. The meat of the game seems to be in the collection of dino DNA to make new dinosaurs as opposed to making a cool looking park. Edit: I could be wrong, I refunded it after about 90 minutes because it felt like I had already seen all there was to the game in that time. However most reviews seem to indicate this is the biggest issue with the game too.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 02:58
|
|
|
explosivo posted:I really did not enjoy Jurassic World. There's some fun to be had in seeing the dinosaurs running around in your enclosures I guess but I found it pretty dull with not much room for perfecting your park visually. The meat of the game seems to be in the collection of dino DNA to make new dinosaurs as opposed to making a cool looking park. No, that's pretty much it. 90% of your time is waiting on the fossil gacha, or waiting on cash. I don't think even Let's Game It Out could make it interesting.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 03:37
|
|
|
Heads up, Transport Fever 2 is on sale on Steam right now for 20% off ($31.99 instead of $39.99).
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 15:27
|
|
|
This may have been asked before but I'll ask again. Anyone played Universim lately? I'm thinking about getting it. Also thinking about getting Before We Leave but gotta watch more video.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 16:16
|
|
|
I'll grab the post from Alamoduh that was buried a few pages back, since they seem knowledgeable about its current state.Alamoduh posted:It’s a good base for a game, but there is not enough there yet. Tech tree still has “coming soon” nodes and there is no end game goal. No goals or milestones of any kind, yet- it’s just build and progress through a tech tree.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 17:08
|
|
|
New base building/mining sandbox game hit the store today called Hydroneer. Anyone know anything about this? It looks alright, especially for $7.99 (right now).
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 17:12
|
|
|
Mayveena posted:Well the good news is that the world is indeed random Honestly, I'd disagree. The factorio developers have a specific roadmap and they're only now closing in on "done". Having played the game since around when it came out, there's definitely massive differences not just in QoL mechanics but also fundamental building concepts. Even things like single player aren't "done;" the current single player campaign is a relatively anemic placeholder and they're specifically redoing it because it's just not good. It would be nice to have a mode of Factorio that's not just Sandbox.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 17:59
|
|
|
Volmarias posted:The game doesn't model timetables either since you end up with a bunch of trains piling up on the same platform. I hated it coming from OpenTTD but once I started playing it really stopped bothering me. It's not a game about always trying to improve throughput, it's a game about balancing the capacity of lines. I suspect their thinking is 1) it's not really the game they're making and 2) the current system creates more natural looking model trainsets. Edit: Lol I didn't even come to the thread to defend my beloved Transport Fever series  I actually wanted to know if there's a thread for these build/lego games like Stormworks and Trailblazers and I thought this might be a place to ask.
GhostDog fucked around with this message at 18:21 on May 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 18:15
|
|
|
Volmarias posted:Honestly, I'd disagree. The factorio developers have a specific roadmap and they're only now closing in on "done". Having played the game since around when it came out, there's definitely massive differences not just in QoL mechanics but also fundamental building concepts. Even things like single player aren't "done;" the current single player campaign is a relatively anemic placeholder and they're specifically redoing it because it's just not good. It would be nice to have a mode of Factorio that's not just Sandbox. Not sure what you are disagreeing on, apologies. The game is listed as Early Access, just like for example Industries of Titan. The two games could not be further apart in their development cycle, yet share the same label. Steam listing for Factorio: https://store.steampowered.com/app/427520/Factorio/
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 18:53
|
|
|
Mayveena posted:Not sure what you are disagreeing on, apologies. The game is listed as Early Access, just like for example Industries of Titan. The two games could not be further apart in their development cycle, yet share the same label. They're still in the "not done yet, we wouldn't have released this in a traditional publishing model" stake. Early Access doesn't always mean Early Alpha.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 23:18
|
|
|
Well, I refunded Transport Fever 2. It wasn't for me. So now I have money in my steam wallet. I have (and love) Factorio and Cities and Stardew. I love transport/road stuff but TF2 didn't click for some reason... It seemed a bit too... Simple? I dunno. Any suggestions on what I might look into using my steam cash on?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 23:24
|
|
|
COOL CORN posted:Well, I refunded Transport Fever 2. It wasn't for me. So now I have money in my steam wallet. I have (and love) Factorio and Cities and Stardew. I love transport/road stuff but TF2 didn't click for some reason... It seemed a bit too... Simple? I dunno.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2020 00:31
|
|
|
COOL CORN posted:Well, I refunded Transport Fever 2. It wasn't for me. So now I have money in my steam wallet. I have (and love) Factorio and Cities and Stardew. I love transport/road stuff but TF2 didn't click for some reason... It seemed a bit too... Simple? I dunno. Railway Empire, Rise of Industry, Factory Town, Autonauts are suggestions. I'd probably do Production Line before Big Pharma myself.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2020 00:49
|
|
|
If TF2 feels too simple, Railway Empire is not the best alternative suggestion, IMO. Maybe the competition thing might make it seem acceptably “complex”, but I wouldn’t make that bet. On the other hand, Railway Empire is currently on sale direct from Kalypso for $12.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2020 01:35
|
|
|
WithoutTheFezOn posted:If TF2 feels too simple, Railway Empire is not the best alternative suggestion, IMO. Maybe the competition thing might make it seem acceptably “complex”, but I wouldn’t make that bet. Accepted. I will note that Railway Empires uses a completely different economic model that includes warehousing and a different signal model as well. It depends on what they thought was simple.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2020 01:43
|
|
|
I like Mashinky and Production Line. To me, Big Pharma was just a puzzle about how to fit all the factory parts in a tiny space. Didn't do it for me.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2020 02:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 08:42 |
|
|
Has Mashinky's map generator improved at all? The only thing that really kept me from getting into mashinky was the incredibly bland feeling maps, but I'm probably hoping for too much from procgen.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2020 02:57
|
|
