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Tiggum posted:I haven't seen that one but it sounds amazing. I tried to find it for you, but the only source I found linked a video that's private, so have this gem instead. https://youtu.be/hkDD03yeLnU Edit: Looked some more and managed to find it, but it's on Ebaums World so yuck. https://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/the-show-csi-ny-hard-at-work-trolling-gamers/81459669/ rydiafan has a new favorite as of 15:25 on May 9, 2020 |
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May 9, 2020 15:18
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Turn on the sun! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FljQ2HEJkP4 At least they understood that second life was full of disgusting fetishists. Cameo by Nick’s dad from Freaks and Geeks.
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May 9, 2020 15:37
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Torquemada posted:Kitty Pryde, more like Kitty Prejudice should be the new thread title and it’s not even close. I did the other one because coming across Sir Lemmings' post as a surprise punchline was super funny and I thought that making it a thread title spoiled the joke. But your wish is my command
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May 9, 2020 15:41
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sassassin posted:That show has (had?) serious problems with Flanderisation. Barely got through a single season before characters became tedious "Greatest Hits" caricatures of themselves. I don't think this is true; there's plenty of character growth after that for every character I can think of. Even Hitchcock and Scully get character arcs later on. e: disclaimer, I'm not a simpsons fan so I'm not very directly familiar with the idea of flanderization. My understanding is that it refers to reducing characters to unchanging stereotypes, always reset to the same places at the end of the episode. Arivia has a new favorite as of 17:23 on May 9, 2020 |
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May 9, 2020 17:12
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Arivia posted:e: disclaimer, I'm not a simpsons fan so I'm not very directly familiar with the idea of flanderization. My understanding is that it refers to reducing characters to unchanging stereotypes, always reset to the same places at the end of the episode.
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May 9, 2020 17:46
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Tiggum posted:I think it's more about exaggerating particular features of their character until that's basically all there is to them. The specific example of Ned Flanders is that in early episodes he and his family are more devout than the Simpsons (which is not saying much), but in later episodes it's pushed to the extreme and is basically his entire character. Right, originally the Flanders were just the "more good Simpsons" (they were more generous, less prone to arguing, with sweeter children) and that would piss Homer off in a relatable way. But later it became just that they were hyper-Christian and nothing else, which also changed a lot of what made certain earlier episodes work.
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May 9, 2020 17:54
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I feel like Flanders' flanderization was more or less part and parcel with the too-late realisation that the typical American Christian was no longer your slightly annoyingly neighbour but an intolerant fanatic.
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May 9, 2020 18:02
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Tiggum posted:Oh, you mean the best scene there has ever been or will ever be on any TV show ever? You meant to post this I think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buHaKYL9Jhg
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May 9, 2020 18:13
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The Simpsons was always slightly self-consciously archaic in its premise and characters in that way that it seemed fresh in the 80s-90s to satirize the conventions of 50s-60s postwar sitcoms, but as the years went on, those old sitcoms slipped out of cultural awareness and even The Simpsons itself forgot that it was aping something else in the situations and characters it used. I feel like the show’s treatment of religion is part of that—maybe in the 50s there was media that presented going to church or being involved in religious community as part of family life (tv certainly didn’t, but maybe The Saturday Evening Post or Reader’s Digest or something), but it was weird in 1990 and is completely nonsensical now, like a big suburban home paid for by single-income blue-collar laborer with a homemaker wife.
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May 9, 2020 18:14
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Tiggum posted:I think it's more about exaggerating particular features of their character until that's basically all there is to them. The specific example of Ned Flanders is that in early episodes he and his family are more devout than the Simpsons (which is not saying much), but in later episodes it's pushed to the extreme and is basically his entire character. Yeah, I don't think that applies to B99, where the archetypes are set up and then repeatedly undercut. One of my favourite moments of the series is when Captain Holt says "I have been working with Jake Peralta for three years now, of course I know the FUNKY. COLD. MEDINA." and then they rap it together. Boyle has to learn to not be a food snob all the time. Santiago is only able to find the ability to lead once she stops being such a stickler for procedure and office work. Amy figures out that not everything can be solved by axes. Some of the characters don't really grow - Gina just moves on, she doesn't change - but I think that's different.
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May 9, 2020 18:21
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:The Simpsons was always slightly self-consciously archaic in its premise and characters in that way that it seemed fresh in the 80s-90s to satirize the conventions of 50s-60s postwar sitcoms, but as the years went on, those old sitcoms slipped out of cultural awareness and even The Simpsons itself forgot that it was aping something else in the situations and characters it used. I feel like the show’s treatment of religion is part of that—maybe in the 50s there was media that presented going to church or being involved in religious community as part of family life (tv certainly didn’t, but maybe The Saturday Evening Post or Reader’s Digest or something), but it was weird in 1990 and is completely nonsensical now, like a big suburban home paid for by single-income blue-collar laborer with a homemaker wife. Although the religion side of things... yeah it is still like that in a lot of tiny towns where the Church doubles as the local "above-board" socializing nexus, volunteer center, etc. etc.
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May 9, 2020 18:26
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Maybe it’s just an animated thing, or later shows copying the Simpsons because it’s not just the Simpsons that still has them going to church regularly and being involved with things. Family Guy, to a lesser extent American Dad, and at least a few South Park episodes still show the various families all being involved with their church and its various events like the Simpsons. I think King of the Hill may have done so too. Admittedly, the only live action, family-centered sitcom from the last 30 years I really remember is Married... With Children, which treated a lot of things differently than other live stuff. I don’t recall them ever having episodes or scenes set in a church or involving stuff like that often like the animated shows do. All of those I can easily think of a few episodes where that stuff comes up. I don’t know if poo poo like Home Improvement or Full House or whatever ever had similar things going on or not, or if that all went away from live action at a certain point.
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May 9, 2020 18:29
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It's still not that weird, in much of America, to attend church. I went to church every Sunday, as did most of my friends, even though none of us were especially religious. People are just super busy now.
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May 9, 2020 18:31
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The postwar sitcoms that became the model for Full House and Family Matters etc intentionally made their characters as generically white as possible, which included never mentioning religion beyond maybe celebrating Christmas. The idea was that the show sponsors wanted as large an affluent audience as possible and were concerned people would be turned off if the characters turned out to have a different religion (or be a different denomination of protestant Christianity) than the viewer might be. It seems like every sitcom to come later has followed that model, maybe without even thinking about it. Even when a family has an ethnic identity that’s part of the show that would imply religious observation, they almost never get into religious practice except at that same superficial level. Seinfeld might be the one case that doesn’t fit, though it’s meant to be unlike a sitcom in many ways. The cartoon thing is a weird departure, but I think you’re right that all animated sitcoms crib from The Simpsons.
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May 9, 2020 18:46
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It’s definitely the case now that right-wing fanatics have entirely taken possession of all appearance of religion in American public life and they control public perception with their lovely Kirk Cameron movies.
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May 9, 2020 18:49
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I know it's cool and hip on this, a post-religion Internet comedy forum, but in large parts of suburbia, pre-COVID, obviously, church life is a huge part of the social fabric, to this day. poo poo, you can't throw a rock around here (Baltimore burbs, not The South), without hitting at least 3 churches. It's just sort of expected. Disclaimer: I haven't attended a standard church service (i.e. not a wedding/funeral/baptism/etc.) in over a decade and do not consider myself religious in any sense.
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May 9, 2020 18:51
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in this moment i am euphoric
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May 9, 2020 18:54
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Toshimo posted:I know it's cool and hip on this, a post-religion Internet comedy forum, but in large parts of suburbia, pre-COVID, obviously, church life is a huge part of the social fabric, to this day. poo poo, you can't throw a rock around here (Baltimore burbs, not The South), without hitting at least 3 churches. It's just sort of expected. But it’s never been a part of tv sitcoms is the point. It’s one of the ways in which television distorts the representation of reality. Even in drama, how often does it actually matter if someone is catholic or jewish aside from maybe yelling inside a religious space when they’re upset for a single scene?
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May 9, 2020 19:01
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:But it’s never been a part of tv sitcoms is the point. It’s one of the ways in which television distorts the representation of reality. Even in drama, how often does it actually matter if someone is catholic or jewish aside from maybe yelling inside a religious space when they’re upset for a single scene? Depends on the writer. Lots of extremely Catholic or extremely Jewish media exists, though they do tend to be more in the realm of movies than television. With just TV my first thought is Daredevil. The most Jewish show is probably Transparent.
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May 9, 2020 19:10
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:But it’s never been a part of tv sitcoms is the point. It’s one of the ways in which television distorts the representation of reality. Even in drama, how often does it actually matter if someone is catholic or jewish aside from maybe yelling inside a religious space when they’re upset for a single scene? I'll pull some examples later, but this feels entirely out of touch with media, to me. Judaism/Catholicism are constantly overworked as character-defining traits, and there's a near-ubiquitous sitcom conceit of, traditionally the matriarch having to do such-and-so thing for the church fundraiser/balesale/etc. to maintain the social status quo that the rest of the family screws up, this fulfilling more trope checkboxes.
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May 9, 2020 19:15
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people used to think of the simpsons as depicting a completely generic, normal american family but i think 30 years later we should have the perspective to realize that was never the case and it's ultimately an obsolete way of thinking about tv representation - there is no 'normal' because you always making some kind of choice that sets someone out we should realize that because had the creators of the simpsons just decided that the simpsons should be cartoon black family, we would've thought of them in those terms but, since they were some kind of cartoon caucasian, people 30 years ago could get away with thinking of them as just a generic, normal family other things that distinguish them like religious affiliation also work the same way and if you were to redo the simpsons in the modern times as some kind of irreligious suburban family it'd be no more 'normal' than making them something else
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May 9, 2020 19:18
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Toshimo posted:I'll pull some examples later, but this feels entirely out of touch with media, to me. Judaism/Catholicism are constantly overworked as character-defining traits, and there's a near-ubiquitous sitcom conceit of, traditionally the matriarch having to do such-and-so thing for the church fundraiser/balesale/etc. to maintain the social status quo that the rest of the family screws up, this fulfilling more trope checkboxes. Not on tv, at least not that I can think of—school functions or charity things, or civic functions where someone is being recognized by work or the city, seem a lot more common to me. Maybe weddings or funerals? But even then, it seems very perfunctory.
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May 9, 2020 19:26
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:The postwar sitcoms that became the model for Family Matters etc intentionally made their characters as generically white as possible, . 
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May 9, 2020 19:32
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Malcolm in the Middle - As far as I can recall, all the kids attend Sunday School as mandated by Lois, which comes up several times as the kids make the church folks miserable with their antics. Modern Family - Gloria, who is burdened by the triple sin of being Matriarchal/Catholic gets her religion highlighted rather frequently, and they also do the "Homer Quits Church" thing except with Jay. That 70's Show - IIRC, Kitty is the devout churchgoing mom and even tries to drag Cheech there a couple of times. King of Queens - Episodes "Baker's Dozen" (Church Bake Sale Trope), Holy Mackerel, etc. None of this is 7th Heaven-level stuff, but you absolutely see it relentlessly in any of the nuclear-family-style sitcoms if you take a second to look out for it.
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May 9, 2020 19:44
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Isn't it a usual theme, in the Simpsons at least, that nobody actually wants to be at church? With the exception of the Flanders', everybody including Rev. Lovejoy would usually prefer to be somewhere else, but they have to go to maintain appearances - Which, like Toshimo pointed out, is a big thing in small towns like Springfield is ostensibly supposed to be.
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May 9, 2020 19:48
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Toshimo posted:That 70's Show - IIRC, Kitty is the devout churchgoing mom and even tries to drag Cheech there a couple of times. Yep. Pastor Dave is recurring character in a few seasons, and all the characters get involved in events there at least a few times.
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May 9, 2020 19:50
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Toshimo posted:I know it's cool and hip on this, a post-religion Internet comedy forum, but in large parts of suburbia, pre-COVID, obviously, church life is a huge part of the social fabric, to this day. poo poo, you can't throw a rock around here (Baltimore burbs, not The South), without hitting at least 3 churches. It's just sort of expected. It's not just suburbia. You can't spit without hitting a church or two every block in most American cities, and presumably somebody's going to their posted Sunday service(s).
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May 9, 2020 19:50
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May 9, 2020 20:00
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BrigadierSensible posted:Will second anything with Jerry Orbach is worth watching LET ME TELL YOU, BUDDY!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flBrQ5GT-Kc
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May 9, 2020 20:00
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Toshimo posted:LET ME TELL YOU, BUDDY!! I only made that connection like 3 or 4 years ago when somebody posted the video of him doing that live at the Oscars, and it blew my loving mind.
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May 9, 2020 20:13
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:But it’s never been a part of tv sitcoms is the point. It’s one of the ways in which television distorts the representation of reality. Even in drama, how often does it actually matter if someone is catholic or jewish aside from maybe yelling inside a religious space when they’re upset for a single scene? Charlotte converting to Judaism to marry her new guy was a big plot line in Sex and the City at one point.
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May 9, 2020 20:15
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My experience of her is limited to the maybe three minutes of her Ted talk I endured. Everything since then has convinced me she’s the human embodiment of those wasps that eat their way out of caterpillars.
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May 9, 2020 20:15
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:But it’s never been a part of tv sitcoms is the point. It’s one of the ways in which television distorts the representation of reality. Even in drama, how often does it actually matter if someone is catholic or jewish aside from maybe yelling inside a religious space when they’re upset for a single scene? Where does Seinfeld count for this? It’s not religious but it’s also pretty culturally Jewish. A lot of my friends from college weren’t religious but grew up in Jewish families and all of them felt the show was spot-on.
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May 9, 2020 20:20
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Where does Seinfeld count for this? It’s not religious but it’s also pretty culturally Jewish. A lot of my friends from college weren’t religious but grew up in Jewish families and all of them felt the show was spot-on. It’s definitely the biggest exception I can think of.
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May 9, 2020 20:22
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Where does Seinfeld count for this? It’s not religious but it’s also pretty culturally Jewish. A lot of my friends from college weren’t religious but grew up in Jewish families and all of them felt the show was spot-on. Haven't seen much Seinfeld but he could be non practicing / secular?
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May 9, 2020 20:23
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I remember an episode of Home Improvement that, going off idk like 25 year old memory, had Randy questioning the hypocrisy of big religion deciding he didn't want to attend church so Tim tells him he's ruining Christmas for the family and guilt trips him into giving up and going to church with the family and it was presented as if it were a triumph.
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May 9, 2020 20:25
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Spek posted:I remember an episode of Home Improvement that, going off idk like 25 year old memory, had Randy questioning the hypocrisy of big religion deciding he didn't want to attend church so Tim tells him he's ruining Christmas for the family and guilt trips him into giving up and going to church with the family and it was presented as if it were a triumph. Last Man Standing season -14.
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May 9, 2020 20:29
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Randy was the worst kid anyways. Brad ruled and had a girlfriend and then the younger one was a goth dude.
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May 9, 2020 20:32
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Solice Kirsk posted:Randy was the worst kid anyways. Brad ruled and had a girlfriend and then the younger one was a goth dude. Speaking of aging well...
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May 9, 2020 20:34
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small ghost posted:I've been binging primo guilty pleasure comfort show Midsomer Murders while stuck in the house, and while there's a lot in the earlier seasons that could go in this thread (mostly wild homophobia and transphobia of that particularly late 90s/00s flavour), Tom and Joyce's relationship is just the best.
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May 9, 2020 21:06
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