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Enterprise drives also have a poo poo load of more features consumers don't care about much less know about, more overprivisioning, better warranties and lifetime guarantees, and built to not poo poo the bed under sustained workloads Why must enterprise be so demanding 
WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 05:25 on May 11, 2020 |
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May 11, 2020 05:17
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WhyteRyce posted:Enterprise drives also have a poo poo load of more features consumers don't care about much less know about, more overprivisioning, better warranties and lifetime guarantees, and built to not poo poo the bed under sustained workloads plus a bunch of tantalum capacitors so they can finish writing a full cache even if the power gets cut
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May 11, 2020 05:32
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Kane posted:If money isn't an issue, is it a good idea to get an Optane 0.5-1tb drive for Windows/general purpose computing/gaming or is it overkill? Will the difference be felt? (I despise all computer lags in every part of the process) Given that I haven't heard gently caress all about Optane for enthusiast use since they bundled a Star Citizen ship with each purchase, I'd say that's not a stellar sign for its continued relevance or future. I also haven't heard Samsung talk up Z-NAND in an even longer while. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 07:37 on May 11, 2020 |
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May 11, 2020 07:04
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Klyith posted:plus a bunch of tantalum capacitors so they can finish writing a full cache even if the power gets cut Yah on the AIC/u.2s they have beefy electrolytics too sometimes!
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May 11, 2020 07:28
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Kane posted:If money isn't an issue, is it a good idea to get an Optane 0.5-1tb drive for Windows/general purpose computing/gaming or is it overkill? Will the difference be felt? (I despise all computer lags in every part of the process) You would have to be utterly insane and absolutely hate money to consider a 512GB Optane drive. They're still like $5000, IIRC. You buy Optane when you can't stuff any more RAM into a machine, not before. If you were actually thinking of one of those Intel H10 deals that are a 512GB SSD + 32GB Optane chip, then yeah, they're slightly faster at some things: the reviews I saw were quoting game loadtimes of 45s for the H10 vs 46.5s for a 970 Evo, and similar slight performance increases for other applications, as long as you weren't trying to move too much data (in which case it was considerably slower because it's built off QLC flash). Like most caching solutions, repeated transfers of the same file are faster than random new file reads, so it can help if you're repeatedly loading the same few files over and over again. You'd be better off taking the money you'd spend on Optane and buying more RAM, in almost all cases.
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May 11, 2020 19:25
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Well gently caress... Was putting a new power supply in my computer and managed to mix up some EVGA and Corsair modular power cables. Resulting in me plugging a Corsair modular SATA cable into my EVGA power supply. Cable fit fine, but as I found out the pinout is different. Fried all 3 SATA SSDs in my gaming machine. (480, 240, and a 120) Strangely enough the one mechanical drive plugged into that same cable didn't seem to mind, it was working all the while I was smelling something burning. Looking at the pinouts, the Corsair cable put 12v where 5v is supposed to go. They where only holding game installs, but still quite an expensive mistake.
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May 11, 2020 19:50
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Yuuup. This exact issue just came up a few days ago (this thread? NAS thread? they all blend together in my head). Sorry for your loss, and for manufacturers being stupid about that poo poo. Upside is you can replace all three with a single 1TB SSD for ~$100 these days.
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May 11, 2020 19:58
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drat that loving sucks Yeah we have seen that too as we migrated between using corsair and evga psus. Thankfully the powered u.2 cable took the brunt and just fried a couple diodes and the attached drive was fine. So moronic they are keyed the same. But then the 6 pin pcie connectors will also plug into the 8 pin cpu sockets with suuuuuper bad results.
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May 11, 2020 20:10
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stevewm posted:Well gently caress... This is why we can't have nice things. SATA power requiring 3 different voltages was dumb.
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May 11, 2020 20:12
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Given that I haven't heard gently caress all about Optane for enthusiast use since they bundled a Star Citizen ship with each purchase, I'd say that's not a stellar sign for its continued relevance or future. I also haven't heard Samsung talk up Z-NAND in an even longer while. You talking as an enthusiast device or just in general?
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May 11, 2020 20:19
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While trying to figure out what happened, I went down a rabbit hole with modular power supply pinouts. 4 different manufacturers appear use the same 6-pin connector for their modular power supplies. However every one of them is a different pinout in some way. Some manufactuers even have different pinouts across their own product lines. EVGA appears to have 3 different ones, and Corsair seems to have 4! I took the dead drives apart hoping I could possibly repair them...Looking at the datasheets, they only use the 5v. 12v and 3.3v lines are not connected. I measured a dead short between 5v and ground on all 3 drives. On the 120GB I found several shorted filter caps and a blown diode. After I knocked off all the shorted caps and diode, the short to ground remains. So I gave up on them.
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May 11, 2020 20:39
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WhyteRyce posted:You talking as an enthusiast device or just in general? It has very relevant use cases in data-center / Enterprise workloads where you literally can't "just add more RAM" after a certain point. But that's about it. Consumer Optane stops at 32GB because there's really no point after that, and even then it's questionable unless you're getting it cheap.
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May 11, 2020 20:40
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stevewm posted:Some manufactuers even have different pinouts across their own product lines. EVGA appears to have 3 different ones, and Corsair seems to have 4! That's because neither company actually makes their own PSUs these days, but just re-brands other companies'. So if they buy from different vendors, they end up with different pin-outs. The entire thing is loving stupid, because there's zero gain to be had by anyone deciding to use different stuff--it's just one big accident trap for end users.
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May 11, 2020 20:42
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if only intel had taken the opportunity to standardize modular connectors in the atx12vo spec maybe in another 20 years
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May 11, 2020 20:46
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DrDork posted:It has very relevant use cases in data-center / Enterprise workloads where you literally can't "just add more RAM" after a certain point. But that's about it. Consumer Optane stops at 32GB because there's really no point after that, and even then it's questionable unless you're getting it cheap. Yes which is why I was asking for clarification because Optane (and Z-NAND apparently) are very much not dead in the data center.
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May 11, 2020 20:49
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Can someone explain to me the difference between caching and tiered storage? Because it seems like the same idea to me: Frequently-used files get moved/copied to the SSD from the hard drive. What's the difference in practice?
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May 11, 2020 20:55
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repiv posted:if only intel had taken the opportunity to standardize modular connectors in the atx12vo spec Like I said the current 'pcie' based modular connectors have 2 types of physical plugs. The square ones and the beveled square. If you only have 12V and GND then its obvious how you wire up the plugs.
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May 11, 2020 20:56
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TOOT BOOT posted:Can someone explain to me the difference between caching and tiered storage? Because it seems like the same idea to me: Frequently-used files get moved/copied to the SSD from the hard drive. What's the difference in practice? Tiered storage is a term for that but not limited to just 2 layers. And it may or may not keep data on multiple tiers at once, like caching usually does.
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May 11, 2020 20:58
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taqueso posted:Tiered storage is a term for that but not limited to just 2 layers. Yeah, that's usually how I see it commonly broken out: cache is a single layer of fast storage above whatever else you have going on, and is not intended for long-term storage. A file lives there only until it's either written back down to the lower layer (write caching) or replaced by fresher/more relevant data (read caching), and you generally do not ever directly address the cached level for specific file access. That is, if you throw a cache drive into a ZRAID, you point read/write actions at the ZRAID and let it figure out whether it needs to pull it from the cache or from the backing storage. You don't try to directly address a file in the cache, because you don't know how long / if it's even going to be there. Tiered storage, on the other hand, is often multiple levels of persistent storage. Often those levels are time-gated, so maybe you've got a week's worth of data on fast SSD / SAS drives, after a week the data gets rolled off to slower bulk-storage HDDs, and after 6 months the data gets rolled off again to tape or some cold-storage system. You may or may not have to address each layer differently, depending on how the system is set up. Similarly, depending on the setup, recently used data from further down the tiering levels may not ever get brought back up to higher levels, even if you repeatedly access it--which is part of why you can sometimes to both, and put a cache on a tiered system so repeatedly searching against cold data isn't quite so painful after the first search or two. DrDork fucked around with this message at 21:15 on May 11, 2020 |
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May 11, 2020 21:11
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I want to see some crazy low tier of storage where data is etched into obsidian using a big rear end laser and then read back by feeling the grooves which will last for 10,000 years or something  Write speeds of like 4k bytes per hour.
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May 11, 2020 21:27
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priznat posted:I want to see some crazy low tier of storage where data is etched into obsidian using a big rear end laser and then read back by feeling the grooves which will last for 10,000 years or something Pretty sure some people were experiencing with film (movie film) to store high density digital data for long term storage that's more robust than magnetic tape or whatever. I think there are some articles/white papers.
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May 11, 2020 21:36
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priznat posted:I want to see some crazy low tier of storage where data is etched into obsidian using a big rear end laser and then read back by feeling the grooves which will last for 10,000 years or something Those IBM WORM tape arrays they still put in a lot of brand new supercomputers are kinda that niche. There are even new versions coming out! But ONLY like 30 year storage, psh. I'm not sure if those M-discs that claimed to have like 10k year life spans ever got used much. e: fun 8bit guy video on weird media types thats kinda relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvXXkB2jic0 Cygni fucked around with this message at 21:47 on May 11, 2020 |
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May 11, 2020 21:40
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Shaocaholica posted:Pretty sure some people were experiencing with film (movie film) to store high density digital data for long term storage that's more robust than magnetic tape or whatever. I think there are some articles/white papers. Which is ironic because a lot of older movie film stock is physically degrading and studios are rushing to digitize their older holdings before they're unrecoverable.
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May 11, 2020 21:44
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DrDork posted:Which is ironic because a lot of older movie film stock is physically degrading and studios are rushing to digitize their older holdings before they're unrecoverable. Or before they burn down!  https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal-fire-master-recordings.html (article is v sad)
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May 11, 2020 21:46
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Shaocaholica posted:Pretty sure some people were experiencing with film (movie film) to store high density digital data for long term storage that's more robust than magnetic tape or whatever. I think there are some articles/white papers. That's been commercialised now: https://www.piql.com GitHub are planning to archive every public repo there so people can rediscover our terrible code in 1000 years. DrDork posted:Which is ironic because a lot of older movie film stock is physically degrading and studios are rushing to digitize their older holdings before they're unrecoverable. Piql are putting a stream of QR codes on the film so in theory it's pretty robust, QR only needs to distinguish black from white and ECC lets it recover even if part of the code is unreadable.
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May 11, 2020 21:53
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I'm sure film stock in 2020 is at least a bit better than it was 50 or 70 years ago. Plus like has been said it's only digital data not shades. EMP hardened! e: so would stainless steel or titanium punch cards. Shaocaholica fucked around with this message at 22:15 on May 11, 2020 |
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May 11, 2020 22:13
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DrDork posted:You would have to be utterly insane and absolutely hate money to consider a 512GB Optane drive. They're still like $5000, IIRC. You buy Optane when you can't stuff any more RAM into a machine, not before. https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Optane-480GB-XPoint-Adapter/dp/B07CZ8ZKL9 It's $588 and the 480gb is as fast in every measure as the 1.5tb one
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May 11, 2020 22:23
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priznat posted:I want to see some crazy low tier of storage where data is etched into obsidian using a big rear end laser and then read back by feeling the grooves which will last for 10,000 years or something quote:
Ok so it's slow, has garbage data density and you have to feel the grooves with a laser, but it works.
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May 11, 2020 23:37
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Cool I had seen that but I only half remembered and wasn’t sure if I had just imagined it, hah.
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May 11, 2020 23:50
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Sometimes storing data on a throw away consumer device is actually better because my studio threw away the source material for a few iconic movies because someone in the chain forgot to mark some directories.
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May 11, 2020 23:50
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Ok, so apocalypse happened. we really need to watch superman though. how do we decode this lost video content. Use a few of the billions of bluray drives and billions of 90% destroyed bluray discs and run a bunch of error correction passes to make sure everything agrees; or do we try to find one of the one known readers of the quartz cube
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May 12, 2020 00:08
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Well a smart person would store a copy of the reader(or more) machine with the cube in the ice fortress.
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May 12, 2020 00:16
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taqueso posted:Ok, so apocalypse happened. we really need to watch superman though. how do we decode this lost video content. Use a few of the billions of bluray drives and billions of 90% destroyed bluray discs and run a bunch of error correction passes to make sure everything agrees; or do we try to find one of the one known readers of the quartz cube
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May 12, 2020 00:18
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But all the blurays rotted into goo so it's either the magic crystal or nothing. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in that article but I remember reading somewhere that they were going to lay out and encode the data in a way that an algorithm could learn to decode it without having the format documented on a stick of printed out pdfs. Obviously you'd still need lasers and computers and poo poo, if we're back down to sticks and stones it's gonna be no good of course.
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May 12, 2020 00:53
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Blurays would survive in the ice fortress. Unless the ice fortress also melted then you might as well give up and die in the radiation.
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May 12, 2020 01:02
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I don't think we actually need the original superman
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May 12, 2020 01:44
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stevewm posted:Well gently caress... Ah poo poo, that sucks, and it's lame that it can happen. There was talk in this or some other shsc thread a week or so ago about it being a pain in the rear end.
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May 12, 2020 03:13
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Kane posted:https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Optane-480GB-XPoint-Adapter/dp/B07CZ8ZKL9 I mean, sure, but it's also actually slower than a 970 Pro in pretty much everything but heavily multi-threaded random reads, and costs 3x as much. No, there's no point to Optane for consumer workloads unless you're trying to use it to cover for the fact that you've only got like 8GB RAM or something.
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May 12, 2020 03:17
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Ah poo poo, that sucks, and it's lame that it can happen. There was talk in this or some other shsc thread a week or so ago about it being a pain in the rear end. There was a guy in the PC build thread who did it recently, luckily he just had a power-on fail result rather than the magic smoke. The OP now haw a big all-caps "don't mix modular PSU cables" warning. But that OP is also ginormous and I don't know how many people read it all the way through. The cable incompatibility situation is a mess, but it's also one where a single standard might be harder than the "12v here, 5v here, ground here" you'd think a first glance. They're not always just plain dumb wires, different PSUs do have differences in their cables. Many have in-line capacitors on the wire down at the plug end, which I'm not sure should be swapped willy-nilly. And some super-high-end units actually have extra sense wires for monitoring voltage or something. At the same time it'd be cool if they'd at least label them somehow, so you could look at a cable and see you're plugging an EVGA #4 cable into your PSU rather than the Corsair S-6 you need.
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May 12, 2020 04:58
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Klyith posted:
Yea, some really are too cool to have the manufacturer's name clearly printed on them. It's stupid af. I have a few I'm unsure of. It's a pita to need to use a meter.. GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at 05:06 on May 12, 2020 |
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May 12, 2020 05:02
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