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We need hyperspace whale riders. I wonder what hyperspace whales taste like.
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May 11, 2020 23:05
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Seraphic Neoman posted:We need hyperspace whale riders. Whatever you want it to taste like
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May 11, 2020 23:06
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hobbesmaster posted:purebrane gold If the thread ever gets a new title this should replace "My God, It's Full Of Techs"
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May 11, 2020 23:12
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hobbesmaster posted:purebrane gold 
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May 11, 2020 23:24
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President Ark posted:this is an alternate timeline where instead of invading and pillaging europe, the mongols invaded and pillaged the fabric of reality did you motherfuckers think i was kidding??? also, hobbesmaster posted:purebrane gold 
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May 11, 2020 23:27
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Even the far future cities on the edge of reality still build wood and straw shacks for some reason.
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May 12, 2020 00:34
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hobbesmaster posted:purebrane gold 
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May 12, 2020 00:42
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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May 12, 2020 00:51
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Maigius posted:Even the far future cities on the edge of reality still build wood and straw shacks for some reason. Given all the fantasy stuff that's been created recently, I figure a fair few Mongolians want a properly "rustic" lifestyle...in the middle of hyperspace.
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May 12, 2020 00:58
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Dr. Snark posted:Given all the fantasy stuff that's been created recently, I figure a fair few Mongolians want a properly "rustic" lifestyle...in the middle of hyperspace. I'm reminded of that voyager episode with the "Q civil war" where the Qs fighting each other took place in the american civil war.
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May 12, 2020 01:15
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I'm still waiting for us to go back in time and uplift our species, unless that's already happened.
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May 12, 2020 01:43
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Grapplejack posted:I'm still waiting for us to go back in time and uplift our species, unless that's already happened. It turns out that the Mongolians were behind the Pyramids the entire time!
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May 12, 2020 06:53
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Grapplejack posted:I'm still waiting for us to go back in time and uplift our species, unless that's already happened. An enterprising Mongolian develops a hyperdimensional program structured like a vintage computer game wherein players can freely recreate their own species and history starting from scratch as a way of redefining Mongolian history in realtime. This developer naturally picks a pretentious name for his new toy, something like "Caveman 2 Cosmos" perhaps.
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May 12, 2020 08:25
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did the dev guy actually post why gold standard is still the optimal choice, in his view
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May 12, 2020 08:30
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another dev posted:Also they invented Purestrain Gold to explain currency civics imbalances dev posted:
another dev posted:Mod still is in alpha balance wise especially civics and buildings. dev posted:Regallion is smart enough to be seeing the implications for what they are. And I think that's the point. One can look at a facet of the game model and say we're trying to make some horrible point when someone else can look at the same detail and find a more reasonable meaning in it. If you want to be triggered, it's not usually that hard to find a way and it's funny because it seems Trans people are the most on the lookout for any reason to be offended of any group out there. lol. I'm sure they'd take offense to me even pointing that out. There's some more, but it's mainly the devs talking to each other about what we are saying then giving these replies to us. ssmagus fucked around with this message at 11:59 on May 12, 2020 |
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May 12, 2020 11:54
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Lol I loving wish I invented purestrain gold. If anyone from the dev team is reading this please look up TobleroneTriangular, he's the true visionary of the internet
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May 12, 2020 12:01
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quote:Some of them correctly assumed that obsoleting Pride Parade means LGBT being fully accepted, though this should be at Utopia Destiny or even earlier as transhumanism is so much more progressive, that someone LBGT may be treated as conservative Luddite when transhumanism is widespread. Eat poo poo. Being LGBT is not a progressive ideology that can be obsoleted, it's a fundamental part of who someone is.
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May 12, 2020 12:48
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I disappointed that they're just rejecting the notion that it could be interpreted as a political statement out of hand. If they really wanted to remove any ambiguity around the interpretation of it, why not just make up a tech quote and civilopedia entry laying out their text for the work? The fact that they're saying that trans folk are looking for a reason to be "triggered" too doesn't help things be read in a positive light either and pretty much confirms to me that they didn't even talk to any queer folks about this. I'm not surprised, just disappointed.  For what it's worth, while I believe that death of the author and taking what you want from a work is valid, the context a work and its creative decision makers exist in is important for understanding them. This also applies to the ideas that it's trying to get across, either as an implication of the game mechanics or as part of the text/what's explicitly stated. I was writing up a paragraph about Sid Meier's Pirates! but piracy and privateering have a bit of complexity to them and nobody is arguing that we should raid Spanish treasure galleons today. Instead, how about looking at Galactic Civilizations III? The fact that cryptocurrency exists as a desireable government feature (it enables gameplay mechanics) and that Objectivism (i.e. Ayn Rand) is a top-tier government structure on par with Pretty Much the Federation and Pretty Much The Culture, and it comes with a massive diplomatic bonus towards pragmatic nations is a bit of a statement. Especially coupled with the fact that Brad Wardell, lead designer and CEO of the company, is a vocal libertarian. Actually, why am I even trying to argue this point when another, better post came in while I was writing this? Cythereal posted:Eat poo poo. Being LGBT is not a progressive ideology that can be obsoleted, it's a fundamental part of who someone is.
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May 12, 2020 12:56
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dev posted:
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May 12, 2020 14:01
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Wait, are the devs reading and responding to our posts in real time? This is kind of weird, someone should buy them accounts
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May 12, 2020 14:09
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lol what a loving cop-out. own your opinions, guys e: i know that i said why not just put this in the description but nah Anticheese fucked around with this message at 14:15 on May 12, 2020 |
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May 12, 2020 14:12
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As someone who is just reading along and lurking, don't buy them accounts.
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May 12, 2020 14:13
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Don't look at me, I'm just the middleman, as much as middlemen shouldn't exist. but yes, the forums are open right now and they are reading the thread.
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May 12, 2020 14:15
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I remember reading my favorite author and he put the disclaimer that the words he wrote in his novel weren't his opinions.  Also if the ~*future*~ is going to get more fleshed out, I'd like to hear about these fantastical concepts that are lurking since placeholders tend to indicate the conceptually finished but unpolished bits but you can see where the creators are going. A bare stage with a single table on it isn't a placeholder. It's a bare stage.
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May 12, 2020 14:19
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As far as I can read, more space stuff is all waiting for multi maps to work. Blame Civ 4 for not being 64 bit and being stuck with only 4 gigs of memory to work with.
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May 12, 2020 14:23
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*inserts a 'Gypsy' culture and gives them a unique Thief unit* This is definitely not political you guys, it definitely doesn't reflect our opinions.
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May 12, 2020 14:43
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ssmagus posted:As far as I can read, more space stuff is all waiting for multi maps to work. Blame Civ 4 for not being 64 bit and being stuck with only 4 gigs of memory to work with. I wonder how multi-map would work in a way that doesn't blow through the memory limit. Would the non-earth maps be smaller or would they not be loaded into memory until selected? I haven't had the game crash from using too much memory in a long time but the space maps being as large as the earth map would seems like something that would bring that back.
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May 12, 2020 14:49
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ssmagus posted:Obsloteing pride parade doesn't mean obsoleteing LGBT itself. Dear devs: I understand you have no experience being a minority of any kind, but Pride parades, Black Heritage Month, and the like are not about acceptance and equal treatment per se. They're about celebrating a shared identity and common experiences. Now certainly there's an argument to be made that in the era of transhumanism, heterosexuality should be equally obsolete because the entire concept of gender has become irrelevant, a quaint attribute of primitive biologicals, but frankly, these writers' chops aren't up to the task of imagining a truly transhuman society.
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May 12, 2020 15:27
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Cythereal posted:Dear devs: I understand you have no experience being a minority of any kind, but Pride parades, Black Heritage Month, and the like are not about acceptance and equal treatment per se. They're about celebrating a shared identity and common experiences.
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May 12, 2020 15:54
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quote:I guess some sort of disclaimer should be added, that things in mod doesn't represent views of devs. You're dead. Your work stands on its own, anything communicated through your work is the point of view expressed by the work. If "pride" is the only indication of LGBT as a concept in the game, introducing it and obsoleting it is a pretty bold statement. If you want to communicate that pride parades are obsolete because everyone is no longer human and that "hetero" doesn't exist anymore either then communicate that in some way through the tech that does it and the other buildings or whatever are included with that tech.
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May 12, 2020 15:55
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Cythereal posted:Now certainly there's an argument to be made that in the era of transhumanism, heterosexuality should be equally obsolete because the entire concept of gender has become irrelevant, a quaint attribute of primitive biologicals, but frankly, these writers' chops aren't up to the task of imagining a truly transhuman society. That's the way I took it. Pride parades were obsoleted at the same time as a few other things, including marriage. Society at that point is transhuman, and people are no longer the same. As much as it's a lovely joke, in an era of transhumanism, if you want to be an attack helicopter, you can literally transfer your consciousness to a drone and be one. Hell, that's probably something people do for recreation! Imagine flying through the sky as a drone and doing sick aerial stunts on a lark, then going back to whatever body of your choice, or perhaps even no body at all for a bit as you just chill in cyberspace for a while. People would experiment with being different genders, different species, different pieces of machinery, etc. Bodies cease to be something that you are born with and stuck with, and start to be a commodity, where interplanetary travel can just be beaming your information to another planet and waking up in a rental body to go walk around the world or attend a business meeting. The whole concept of someone being transgender just wouldn't be an issue anymore; biological sex becomes completely irrelevant as the body that we inhabit becomes completely irrelevant. If you feel strongly that you were born into the wrong body, then you just go get a new body that you're happier with, and that assumes that people are "born" in the same way now. I wouldn't be too surprised if by this point some Brave New World poo poo starts happening when it comes to increasing the population. As far as homosexuality goes, we're talking about an era with designer bodies. If the current sex industry is anything to go by, people would have a field day with designer bodies that are designed for pleasure and go far beyond human limitations. When the entire concept of gender starts to become obsolete, who knows how society would organize? People become data, and assuming that we still find partners to spend our time with, you match yourself up with someone that has similar interests. Hell, at this point you'd start to see people inhabiting the bodies of animals, machines, and various nonhuman designer bodies, making the list of acceptable partners spread far beyond whether your preference is for someone with one set of genitalia or the other. That all being said, I think the best way for the devs to approach it would be to put in some new things in place of what was obsoleted to showcase how society has changed now that people are no longer restricted to their original bodies. It's a radical change, and one that would take generations to fully embrace as people start to get comfortable with the idea that their identity as masculine, feminine, or even human just doesn't matter anymore. At this point, even the concept of work starts to break down; physical work is just done by bodies or machines, and why not have those bodies or machines driven by forked consciousnesses or AIs that are specifically designed to enjoy that work? The mental work of developing a new concept or device could again be farmed out to forked consciousnesses, or just worked on by enthusiasts with virtually unlimited resources. Incidentally, stuff like the above is part of why people rag on the Gold Standard as a civic. There's a point where it just doesn't make any sense past a certain era (ignoring that it already doesn't make any sense). A lot of civics need major penalties that show up with certain techs in a similar fashion to how Emancipation works in the original Civ IV.
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May 12, 2020 17:19
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To be fair, some of that stuff does exist it's just placed in the game in a very bare bones format and to some extent you have to go hunting in Civpedia descriptions. But then we're getting back to questions of how much the game stands on it's own two feet and related but separately, how much we're supposed to accept as on the way to a fully complete version.
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May 12, 2020 18:01
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basically if they had stuck to purely historical things they might be able to claim neutrality but once you move into speculative sci-fi stuff it reframes the whole thing as an opinion piece and taking that alongside a lot of earlier  stuff like the alpha/omega thing, socialism/welfare being comedically bad, hitler as leader, etc. it doesn't look that great(not that a "purely" historical thing could be claimed to be truly apolitical or neutral anyway)
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May 12, 2020 18:11
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Yeah I think the 'game' kind of stops once you hit information age, everything past there is very clearly unfinished / a skeleton for future stuff.
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May 12, 2020 20:08
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I'll just link it and quote the beginning of it but this explains a lot of what I suspected about development of this mod: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/a-very-interesting-lp-and-review-in-progress.643220/page-7#post-15758106 (i can remove it if we were avoiding directly linking that thread?) quote:We have had some 2 or 3 developers independently and without any 'team consensus' go through and design their views of the future portion of the game to give us platforms on which to work with, ideas to crystalize around. TBH, this play through is the first time I've seen a vast amount of this content at all and... it's interesting but incomplete. Every now and then new ideas are injected into the futuristic stuff but the team core has been working on pretty much the game up to the industrial era. Beyond that it's a lot of stuff that's there from other devs, many of whom are not even on the project anymore, known areas with big problems that have to be addressed, and a massive work in progress. The game core cleanup and debugging has taken center stage for most of the time here while other planning is taking place and on occasion one new developer comes in, flash-fleshes out a huge segment of the game before the team really gets the chance to see much of it and leaves before completing it in full. The future works better than I'd have expected and it's a pretty good road map or skeleton of a design but it's nowhere near what the end expectations are and was largely someone playing with ideas for the purposes of testing out some material before we get multimaps in play. Also in the next post: quote:Alpha Male/Female and Omega Crew Children were renamed to something similar - its now Ancestral Male/Female - equally cool names.
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May 12, 2020 22:47
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Some genuinely pretty great changes, I have to say. And to be honest, even though the mod's not perfect or anything, it's still single-handedly (okay there's rise from erebus too) responsible for civ 4 having the highest playtime of all the 1000+ Steam games I own. And looking at my friend list I'm probably not alone.
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May 12, 2020 22:57
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Based on my casual talks with the devs many of them think the scope of the mod outgrew Civ 4's engine a long time ago but you gotta work with what you've got and starting over from scratch to turn something like Caveman2Cosmos into its "own" game is too tall a task for a bunch of hobbyist developers. Frankly I prefer it this way because the result is far more insane.
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May 12, 2020 23:30
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Those are good changes. Hopefully they can rebalance the civics to have less unfortunate implications.
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May 12, 2020 23:32
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I'm imagining someone's blindly accepted pull request adding hitler, nerfing socialism, buffing fascism and the gold standard and then the other devs not noticing for a few years
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May 12, 2020 23:33
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paragon1 posted:Those are good changes. Hopefully they can rebalance the civics to have less unfortunate implications. And knock it off with the "ugh politics  "Genuinely happy to see the ancestral change.
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May 12, 2020 23:35
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