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six hours and we suffer again
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May 12, 2020 06:17
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Soricidus posted:does linux even work reliably with hidpi monitors yet? last time i tried it was mostly ok but some things were still tiny ... and those included the login screen linux has always worked with hidpi, because there has never been a standard dpi on x11 75, 80, 96, and 100 dpi were all common choices back in the day, not to mention all the bananas CAD poo poo that used wild rear end DPIs on secondary monitors software had to be written to be dpi-independent to work at all in an x11 environment (of course, this does not mean gnome will work, because gnome 3 is a giant bucket of poo poo. if there is a way to gently caress it up, they found it) larper posted:In ~/.Xresources, Add "Xft.dpi: <dpi-you-want>", then log out and back in. I think that's all thats required for X. In i3 I also have to set the font size. you have to manually set this because while x11 autodetects dpi based on the edid provided by your monitors, that data was historically very bad, so every software package in existence ignores the (physical) dpi that x11 reports 
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May 12, 2020 18:09
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:linux has always worked with hidpi, because there has never been a standard dpi on x11
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May 12, 2020 18:30
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:75, 80, 96, and 100 dpi were all common choices back in the day, not to mention all the bananas CAD poo poo that used wild rear end DPIs on secondary monitors … quote:you have to manually set this because while x11 autodetects dpi based on the edid provided by your monitors, that data was historically very bad, so every software package in existence ignores the (physical) dpi that x11 reports nBSD is correct here and only technically correct in the previous couple paragraphs X11 has had the ability to support multiple DPI all along, well before EDID was ever a thing practically though, the only thing it was ever used for in real world code was picking fonts to use, and for that the choice was almost universally between 75 and 100 DPI fonts approximately nobody ever wrote resolution-independent X11 applications, virtually everyone just worked in terms of device pixels and didn’t bother figuring out scaling factors or translating real-world units, and the APIs don’t work in terms of scaled coordinate systems either so it’s not one of those systems where you can change an underlying scale factor and everything just works it is, as with all things X11, a lovely house of cards that only really kind of works well enough most of the time through cargo-culted code and adherence to unspoken conventions
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May 12, 2020 18:43
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Wasn't really practical to write with proportional scaling pre FHD since you'd be fumbling around with aliasing. at least i never felt comfortable doing it
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May 12, 2020 19:01
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:linux has always worked with hidpi, because there has never been a standard dpi on x11 Interesting stuff. I would expect ignoring the automatic dpi to be the default since that data is unreliable and people generally expect higher resolution screens (like my t470 1920x1080) to display things smaller until you choose the dpi you want. It took windows until just a few years ago to even get halfway working scaling but its been mostly seamless in linux so far. the only app that ignores my dpi setting is chromium.
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May 12, 2020 19:04
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irix 4dwm had vector icons so it was 8k monitor ready 
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May 12, 2020 19:14
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pram posted:irix 4dwm had vector icons so it was 8k monitor ready you could actually buy 8k monitors and graphics heads for irix i guess it was useful for medical imaging or something ? idk
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May 12, 2020 19:18
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eschaton posted:approximately nobody ever wrote resolution-independent X11 applications, virtually everyone just worked in terms of device pixels and didn’t bother figuring out scaling factors or translating real-world units, and the APIs don’t work in terms of scaled coordinate systems either so it’s not one of those systems where you can change an underlying scale factor and everything just works real world code written using motif, qt, or gtk will do approximately the right thing when you change the dpi, and they always have done i know this because i was an early adopter when high-dpi laptops came out. everything using off-the-shelf toolkits worked properly on day one without any fuckery it was really as easy as changing an underlying scale factor (xft.dpi) eschaton posted:it is, as with all things X11, a lovely house of cards that only really kind of works well enough most of the time through cargo-culted code and adherence to unspoken conventions yeah this part is true because the class of applications that don't use a toolkit is not as small as you would hope
java on linux had busted dpi support for a long time, making jetbrains suite almost unusable
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May 12, 2020 19:21
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gnome works with hidpi now although it was fairly iffy for 2-3 years. It never supported whole-window upscaling for legacy applications but it would probably have caused some terrible rainbowing crap because there was no universal way to control subpixel rendering either. these days I don't even know if subpixel font rendering even exists any more because it's such a non-concern with 200+ DPI displays.
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May 12, 2020 19:24
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i still don't have a high-dpi display for my home desktop because wow big high-dpi displays are spendy
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May 12, 2020 19:25
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Some people are still using non hi-dpi displays, OP.
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May 12, 2020 19:26
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Maybe my plan will be to simultaneously upgrade to a new computer with USB4, get a hi-dpi display, and try switching to wayland again in two or so more years when I can muster the energy to give a poo poo.
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May 12, 2020 19:28
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i still don't have a high-dpi display for my home desktop because wow big high-dpi displays are spendy i think you can get a 30" 4k monitor for about 300 now
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May 12, 2020 19:35
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i still don't have a high-dpi display for my home desktop because wow big high-dpi displays are spendy we're at the point where you can get a 50-ish inch 4k tv with hdmi 2.1, 120hz and variable refresh for well under $1000, but for some reason a 27" 4k monitor that can go above 60hz costs almost twice as much
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May 12, 2020 19:38
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all the peripherals to support 4k are also much more expensive; i got a 4 port hdmi switch with two outputs for like, $30 but an equivalent for 4k would be well over a hundred
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May 12, 2020 19:39
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The_Franz posted:we're at the point where you can get a 50-ish inch 4k tv with hdmi 2.1, 120hz and variable refresh for well under $1000, but for some reason a 27" 4k monitor that can go above 60hz costs almost twice as much tvs are mostly loving terrible, that's why larper posted:i think you can get a 30" 4k monitor for about 300 now 4k @ 30" is 140 dpi. not much of a win. i have been looking at 5k 27" monitors but the pricing is brutal
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May 12, 2020 19:40
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I'd get a 4k monitor but it would be a pain with my current setup. I have a linux computer and a windows computer next to each other, one monitor is connected to the linux computer, and one monitor is connected to a hdmi switch which is connected to both computers (because the monitor only has one port I guess). I think the linux computer doesn't have a video card that can handle 4k over dvi or hdmi, so I'd probably have to replace both monitors, replace the video card, and probably buy a new power supply. If I replace the linux computer in a couple years I'll probably just switch to using virtualization with gpu passthrough for windows, and use one 4k monitor rather than multiple non-hidpi monitors, but I have a better graphics card in the windows computer and the power supply in the linux computer definitely can't handle that right now. Thank you for listening to my ted talk.
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May 12, 2020 19:42
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larper posted:i think you can get a 30" 4k monitor for about 300 now i don't think i even paid $300 for mine several years ago monitors seem to be split into two catagories now: "work" displays that are 4k, but typically don't do high refresh rates, and "gamer" displays that are 1080/1440p but can do 40-144hz freesync and such. as soon as you want a hybrid of the two the price goes through the roof
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May 12, 2020 19:43
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Actually as of a week ago I also have a third lovely monitor which is also plugged into the windows machine because this is helpful for my w4h situation.
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May 12, 2020 19:46
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mystes posted:I'd get a 4k monitor but it would be a pain with my current setup. when you get around to replacing your video card what you really want is displayport hdmi development is driven by what TVs require and ultra-high-resolution TVs are not remotely a mass market concern right now displayport is what you use for a pc monitor and it usually moves faster than hdmi
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May 12, 2020 19:50
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1400x1200
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May 12, 2020 19:56
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The_Franz posted:monitors seem to be split into two catagories now: "work" displays that are 4k, but typically don't do high refresh rates, and "gamer" displays that are 1080/1440p but can do 40-144hz freesync and such. as soon as you want a hybrid of the two the price goes through the roof seriously. i'm having real trouble trying to find something modern that hits 'high pixel count and dpi' and 'high refresh rate', seems really challenging. at this point i'm just sticking with my 30" dell from 2005 until something else exists
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May 12, 2020 21:12
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The_Franz posted:i don't think i even paid $300 for mine several years ago even just a high framerate 1440p display with good color accuracy is extremely spendy
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May 12, 2020 21:20
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eschaton posted:… yeah this is true. nbsd is in that weird talking about deprecated-but-technically-correct-old-linux-minutiae mood again. only apps not written in any modern toolkit bothers with xft.dpi. it's gtk and qt which makes hidpi work in linux (and it works great)
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May 12, 2020 21:59
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for prospective buyers: 144hz is better than 4k
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May 12, 2020 22:14
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just don’t be me and accidentally buy a ~gamer monitor~ that makes it easier to toggle a crosshair overlay than to switch inputs love the refresh rate tho
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May 12, 2020 22:16
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hifi posted:for prospective buyers: 144hz is better than 4k
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May 12, 2020 22:18
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mystes posted:How does 144hz possibly matter for stuff other than games? How is text and 30fps video going to look better on a 144hz display? scrolling... dragging... dropping... use your imagination. and technically, 24 fps video looks better on a 144hz monitor
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May 12, 2020 22:21
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Tankakern posted:yeah this is true. nbsd is in that weird talking about deprecated-but-technically-correct-old-linux-minutiae mood again. only apps not written in any modern toolkit bothers with xft.dpi. gtk and qt will both heed the value of xft.dpi, but apps that don't use gnome or kde frameworks will not read the setting from elsewhere the path of least resistance is to set the property
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May 12, 2020 22:23
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mystes posted:How does 144hz possibly matter for stuff other than games? How is text and 30fps video going to look better on a 144hz display? it might actually make your video look worse since only one of the important framerates (24, 25, 30, 50, 60) divides evenly into 144
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May 12, 2020 22:24
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hifi posted:scrolling... dragging... dropping... use your imagination. and technically, 24 fps video looks better on a 144hz monitor
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May 12, 2020 22:24
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mystes posted:I use a window manager that doesn't have overlapping windows and looks like it escaped from the 80s. You think I'm going to buy a 144hz monitor so drag and drop is minutely smoother? oh hey its the obnoxious tiling wm poster, good to know some things never change
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May 12, 2020 22:39
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so whats your fave? i3, xmonad, dwm, ratpoison, something else? we need to know
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May 12, 2020 22:41
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rio
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May 12, 2020 22:42
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Nomnom Cookie posted:oh hey its the obnoxious tiling wm poster, good to know some things never change different strokes for different folks some people like that poo poo, let them have it
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May 12, 2020 22:47
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Nomnom Cookie posted:oh hey its the obnoxious tiling wm poster, good to know some things never change
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May 12, 2020 22:54
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X11 has had a DPI property that it read from edid, but it was global to the server and didn't work with multi monitor. In practice the value got hardcoded to something like 96 in the mid-2000s. XRandR could also parse edid and export them as output properties but they were never used in any toolkits afaik. None of this has any bearing on "hi-DPI" because nobody ever scaled their windows based on it. It wouldn't make sense to.
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May 12, 2020 23:00
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:different strokes for different folks i'm totally fine with tiling wms and tiling wm posting. but not obnoxious posting like "hey nice discussion about monitors you're having, but did you all know that the monitors you're praising would not benefit me, a tiling wm user?" what purpose is being served there
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May 12, 2020 23:27
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Nomnom Cookie posted:i'm totally fine with tiling wms and tiling wm posting. but not obnoxious posting like "hey nice discussion about monitors you're having, but did you all know that the monitors you're praising would not benefit me, a tiling wm user?" what purpose is being served there
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May 12, 2020 23:33
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