|
MagusofStars posted:Are they really emotional wrecks? What I remember most about Selphie is that she likes trains.
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 01:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 11:03 |
|
|
Lord Lambeth posted:What I remember most about Selphie is that she likes trains. And wanton violence.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 01:22
|
|
|
She also organizes the Garden Festival
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 01:23
|
|
|
gigglefeimer posted:Funny because that message rang loud and clear to me. Squall and co. are shown to be immature, highly emotional wrecks who are barely holding themselves together while they tackle world changing events and existential crises, as a direct result of their young age and positions they've been thrust into. So yeah there's nice sounding music at the "garden" and Cid is a more kindly face than Norg, but that doesn't mean everything is A-OK. I suppose there could have been a scene included similar to the basketball court scene where everyone has a conversation about how being a child soldier is a terrible thing, but I don't think that's really necessary. Yeah, they're really not emotional wrecks, and whatever baggage they have is not from being child soldiers. Quistis has problems from being a child teacher, expected to be supervising kids when she's just a kid herself. Squall has all sorts of baggage about being abandoned, and not because he's had his childhood taken away by being forced to kill other humans. Like, Cid and Edea deciding to convert their orphanage into a soldier factory, taking the children under their care and deciding to make money by forcing the children to risk their lives in wars is SUPER hosed up, but they're portrayed as the good guys. The game never focuses at all on the horror and trauma of making a child go kill people. You're reading your own views into the game a lot if you think it does. Squall being grumpy that he's being asked to take on a lot of responsibility is not the same as exploring what it means to force impressionable, dependent kids that have no one to look out for them to inflict death on other human beings, for the profit of shithole adults with no conscience.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 01:25
|
|
|
I do think there are ways in 8 plays it pretty flippant with child soldier mercenaries, but at the same time it's also pretty much a post-apocalyptic setting where everywhere outside the major cities are blasted wastelands infested with monsters, so it's probably also reflecting a differing set of cultural norms
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 01:41
|
|
|
CharlieFoxtrot posted:I do think there are ways in 8 plays it pretty flippant with child soldier mercenaries, but at the same time it's also pretty much a post-apocalyptic setting where everywhere outside the major cities are blasted wastelands infested with monsters, so it's probably also reflecting a differing set of cultural norms I don't remember it feeling that way but I can see that interpretation with how barren ps1 graphics can look.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 01:45
|
|
|
Lord Lambeth posted:I don't remember it feeling that way but I can see that interpretation with how barren ps1 graphics can look. i mean, centra is a collapsed civilization due to the lunar cry but that's as much of a stretch of a historical definition of post-apocalypse as if you said we're living in post-apocalypse rome like it's technically true but it doesn't really have a bearing on the setting as it is
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 01:50
|
|
|
Schwartzcough posted:Yeah, they're really not emotional wrecks, and whatever baggage they have is not from being child soldiers. Quistis has problems from being a child teacher, expected to be supervising kids when she's just a kid herself. Squall has all sorts of baggage about being abandoned, and not because he's had his childhood taken away by being forced to kill other humans. Like, Cid and Edea deciding to convert their orphanage into a soldier factory, taking the children under their care and deciding to make money by forcing the children to risk their lives in wars is SUPER hosed up, but they're portrayed as the good guys. The game never focuses at all on the horror and trauma of making a child go kill people. You're reading your own views into the game a lot if you think it does. Squall being grumpy that he's being asked to take on a lot of responsibility is not the same as exploring what it means to force impressionable, dependent kids that have no one to look out for them to inflict death on other human beings, for the profit of shithole adults with no conscience. Get real, this is a Final Fantasy game, not Drakengard. Of course it's not gonna go full horror. Those elements are still there, though, no matter how much you deny it, and the game gets pretty explicit at times.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 01:51
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:i mean, centra is a collapsed civilization due to the lunar cry but that's as much of a stretch of a historical definition of post-apocalypse as if you said we're living in post-apocalypse rome Ah yes, the collapsed and ancient Centra civilization. Wiped out a stunning 80 years ago, it is nearly completely lost to history.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 01:53
|
|
|
the game doesn't do a very good job at communicating that
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 01:53
|
|
|
Yeah, the Centra thing is fascinating given the 80 years ago thing. I really think a FFVIII remake could get a ton of mileage by playing up the weirdness of this for everyone but the characters and then make it clear this is what Time Kompression means; only the events that Ultemecia needs to exist are allowed to exist and the length of the timeline gets trimmed ever shorter to make that work.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 02:00
|
|
|
Yeah basically I guess it would be more accurate to say it's a post-post-apocalyptic scenario, like Splatoon. Everyone just basically lives with the new normal that if you walk five minutes from the city center you might run into a giant flying stingray that electrocutes you to death
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 02:01
|
|
|
FF8's world and its characters are defined more by the loss of the past than by the horrors of war. It's not just the characters losing their memories and forgetting how they came to be who they are. Even without Time Kompression, the whole world is in sort of an eternal present, not caring about history or keeping much of it. There's also the element of isolation, which is obvious in Squall's whole demeanor, but also present in the worldbuilding, where the various countries of the world are heavily limited from communicating with each other. It's far more interested in that, so it glosses over how hosed up it is to send kids to mercenary school.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 02:02
|
|
|
FF8's setting is buckwild and my second-favorite thing about the game (after the soundtrack). I really like how it's like... a magical fantasy setting that has progressed to being aesthetically a modern world, but without losing the fantasy/magical parts. You've got modern-looking towns, cars, and fashion coexisting with a horde of monsters from the moon wiping out a 4000-year-old civilization within some peoples' grandparents' lifetimes and bringing a magical crystal pillar with them, and soldiers making pacts with magical creatures to cast spells, and sorceresses just being an established thing, poo poo like that. I think there's also a thing where there used to be wireless communication but it's been unusable for 17 years because Adel's jamming it from her tomb orbiting the moon? It's cool as hell. I'd love an FF8 remake just for the chance to expand on and actually explore some more of that. FF15 hits a lot of the same notes, too, but unfortunately the game's disjointed story means it never really gets a chance to shine, especially because you never get to explore Insomnia while it's actually a functioning city. Harrow fucked around with this message at 02:13 on May 13, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 02:06
|
|
|
I mean, it's not like FF games can't handle real world themes in a heavy way. Xenogears might have been too dark to be Final Fantasy VII but FFVII was still a really, really hosed up world and the game doesn't shy away from focusing on the exploitation and murder and more "mundane" evil. Sephiroth takes Shinra's place as the major baddie but all of Disk 1 can be seen as a Shinra Body Count Tour. Look at how hosed up Junon is, look at how hosed up Corel is, look at how hosed up Gungaga is. Sephiroth is a future evil that must be prevented but as you pursue him you witness the past evil of Shinra. The cruelty of corporate greed and how it preys upon hopes and dreams and leaves innocent people broken and hopeless is front and center in the narrative and clearly its intent. If FFVIII wanted to be more than a silly love story, it could have been. But that just wasn't what it was supposed to be and that's fine. Speaking of being silly, was Zozo supposed to be a town of horribly poor people? NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 04:03 on May 13, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 02:41
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Silly of being silly, was Zozo supposed to be a town of horribly poor people? More or less. Zozo is specifically supposed to be the lower class of Jidoor that have left the city for some reason or another. While the game is never clear if this is a 'casting out' by the upper class, inability to afford to live in Jidoor proper, or some kind of voluntary migration, the city is represented entirely by folks that are active muggers, criminally insane, or pathological liars. So unless there's some completely untold story about the struggling lower class that live cooped up in fear of their towering residential complexes being completely overrun by violent thugs and Batman villains, it's not terribly hard to call Jidoor isolating themselves from them as the right move. I mean, the implications are hosed up- it was 26 years ago when the game came out and has only gotten worse as the global right have continued efforts to criminalize poverty in an attempt to strip the rights of those too poor to fight for them- but the game does absolutely nothing to show Zozo as little more as that world's version of Arkham City. It's a LOT like the child soldiers in FF8- we know it's terrible but nothing in the context of the game says it was the wrong thing to do because that's not the story the game was telling. (I mean, except it kinda was because one of FFVI's core themes is finding a better way and doing the right thing in even the bleakest of times, but that doesn't matter if the rich are still doing ok, I guess.) Mr. Locke fucked around with this message at 03:24 on May 13, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 03:17
|
|
|
FF8 has a lot of holes for me specifically regarding the GF stuff that I could have just left alone as being a gameplay thing outside of plot had it not been for the dumb memory stuff. does everyone have Ifrit, or did he just choose to join Squall? Zell, Seifer, and Selphie had to have done Fire Cavern to get into the SeeD exam, did they not get Ifrit at the end? what GFs did they have to beat him? what was Selphie doing before joining our party, running around with no GF?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 03:45
|
|
|
grieving for Gandalf posted:FF8 has a lot of holes for me specifically regarding the GF stuff that I could have just left alone as being a gameplay thing outside of plot had it not been for the dumb memory stuff. does everyone have Ifrit, or did he just choose to join Squall? Zell, Seifer, and Selphie had to have done Fire Cavern to get into the SeeD exam, did they not get Ifrit at the end? what GFs did they have to beat him? what was Selphie doing before joining our party, running around with no GF? Selphie came from Trabia, which didn't use GFs (Balamb is the only Garden that does)
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 03:58
|
|
|
I feel like the SeeD exam is a individualized thing because the alternative sounds too boring to contemplate.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 04:00
|
|
|
Uh...is there a glitch in FFX PS4 that makes you randomly get the trophy for defeating Penance from killing a normal enemy in the Calm Lands?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 04:01
|
|
|
i do think there was a glitch that made some of the trophies pop much later after you'd earned them? or maybe it was they popped on load after a patch
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 04:03
|
|
|
Lord Lambeth posted:I feel like the SeeD exam is a individualized thing because the alternative sounds too boring to contemplate. the actual exam is, sure (they didn't create a conflict in Dollet just to test the candidates), but Quistis mentions going to the Fire Cavern multiple times
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 04:11
|
|
|
morallyobjected posted:the actual exam is, sure (they didn't create a conflict in Dollet just to test the candidates), but Quistis mentions going to the Fire Cavern multiple times Last I remember, she talks about boys choking on the test whenever she goes with them, but I just assumed that was when she went along on whatever the individual's test was, not that she goes to the fire cavern every time.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 04:19
|
|
|
morallyobjected posted:Selphie came from Trabia, which didn't use GFs (Balamb is the only Garden that does) she just conveniently forgot everything also because there were no trains in their childhood
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 04:19
|
|
|
I’ve played ffviii so many times (it’s my favorite) but I can’t really tell you what the plot is I can only vaguely tell you vii’s plot and I’ve played it several times as well
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 04:20
|
|
|
I love how the SeeD final exam requires the students to go on an actual mission, which means that in order to hold the exam, a specific Garden needs to be contracted for a mission, and that mission needs to be the kind that they can send a bunch of people on (and not just a small group) so that the students can come along without getting in the way. It's just so wonderfully impractical. I wonder if there are any Gardens where students have to wait months or a year to graduate just because business has dried up.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 04:24
|
|
|
Super No Vacancy posted:i do think there was a glitch that made some of the trophies pop much later after you'd earned them? or maybe it was they popped on load after a patch I have definitely not beaten Penance in this game at any point. I just randomly got the trophy from killing a bee.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 04:29
|
|
|
How hard is Ozma? Are the rewards worth the frustration?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 04:36
|
|
|
Harrow posted:I love how the SeeD final exam requires the students to go on an actual mission, which means that in order to hold the exam, a specific Garden needs to be contracted for a mission, and that mission needs to be the kind that they can send a bunch of people on (and not just a small group) so that the students can come along without getting in the way. It's just so wonderfully impractical. I wonder if there are any Gardens where students have to wait months or a year to graduate just because business has dried up. I mean, it sounds like they get work all the time--it's like the only way Garden gets money
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 04:37
|
|
|
Senator Drinksalot posted:How hard is Ozma? Are the rewards worth the frustration? The reward for beating Ozma is one step above bragging rights. It gets you a Pumice, which you can use to teach Garnet the Ark summon, but you can also get a Pumice by synthesizing two Pumice Pieces. Ozma's an interesting superboss for a Final Fantasy game. It doesn't have a crazy high number of HP, it just really, really fucks with you. It takes a turn after every one of your characters' turns and also adjusts its AI depending on what you're actually vulnerable to, so it's tough to fully protect yourself from the bullshit it can pull. I usually don't bother with FF superbosses but I beat Ozma in two or three tries the last time I played through and it wasn't that bad. Basically do it if you want to know you've beaten Ozma--if you're in it for a tangible reward, it's not worth the trouble probably.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 04:42
|
|
|
I like Ozma because I’m a fan of unknowable spheres of energy
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 04:46
|
|
|
Harrow posted:The reward for beating Ozma is one step above bragging rights. It gets you a Pumice, which you can use to teach Garnet the Ark summon, but you can also get a Pumice by synthesizing two Pumice Pieces. Yeah, Ozma's code makes it so that it automatically takes a turn after any of your characters makes an action, unless it's actually performing an action. You gotta wait for it's normal turn to trigger and then queue all your characters' moves as soon as the game announces its next move. It also has some weaker moves it does when your characters fulfill certain requirements, such as casting Lv4 Holy if one of your party is targetable, and you want it to be doing these moves rather than the massive board wipes it can do. The difficulty in beating Ozma really lies in the fact that it can take so many turns killing you if you conduct the fight normally.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 04:52
|
|
|
Harrow posted:I love how the SeeD final exam requires the students to go on an actual mission, which means that in order to hold the exam, a specific Garden needs to be contracted for a mission, and that mission needs to be the kind that they can send a bunch of people on (and not just a small group) so that the students can come along without getting in the way. It's just so wonderfully impractical. I wonder if there are any Gardens where students have to wait months or a year to graduate just because business has dried up. Just like in our world, business for a private military contractor doesn't just dry up lol
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 05:27
|
|
|
morallyobjected posted:Selphie came from Trabia, which didn't use GFs (Balamb is the only Garden that does) but! she's at Balamb now, and she's passed the prerequisites and is now being sent to a battlefield as a Balamb Garden SeeD candidate. they didn't give her a GF? and that still doesn't account for where Seifer's or Zell's GFs are
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 05:30
|
|
|
There's lore about this. Trabia students go to Balamb for their final exams. Balamb also offers a discount to clients to let them use certain operations as a test for graduating students.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 05:34
|
|
|
Senator Drinksalot posted:How hard is Ozma? Are the rewards worth the frustration? Ozma is the only FF super boss I've ever actually beaten so it must be on the easier side of things, though I remember nothing about it now. You have to do some hidden quest to get it to come close enough to hit with none ranged weapons or something though?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 06:38
|
|
|
FFV super bosses are more of puzzles than bosses. Solved puzzles, really, so they’re probably the “easiest”.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 06:40
|
|
|
Augus posted:Uh...is there a glitch in FFX PS4 that makes you randomly get the trophy for defeating Penance from killing a normal enemy in the Calm Lands? Yup, it's a well-known glitch in the HD remasters. Congrats.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 10:04
|
|
|
morallyobjected posted:I mean, it sounds like they get work all the time--it's like the only way Garden gets money
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 12:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 11:03 |
|
|
I still think the orphanage twist would have worked better because the cast simply forgot due to the effects of time compression kicking in rather than due to GF usage. As it stands it feels kind of tacked on and pointless, but if Squall and co genuinely forgot they were friends as children because Ultimecia is trimming and compressing the existing timeline as is, then it could have tied into the main story nicely. That's what's most frustrating about Final Fantasy VIII really. There's a lot of really cool individual elements but none of it ever gels into something cohesive.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 12:35
|
|
