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I think what gets me most about the imprinting (besides the pedophilia, good god) is that the women seem to have no say in it and Meyer's okay with that. She just kind of handwaves it away like "oh, you can't help but fall in love with someone who loves you so much." It doesn't matter if you're attracted to his personality, have similar goals in life, have shared interests or friends, actually enjoy being around him...nope, it's meant to be. Like, if my husband was the sweetest, most adoring person to me and treated everyone else in my life like poo poo, no amount of love could make me stay in that relationship. But according to these books, it's fine if your soulmate's an rear end in a top hat because he looooves you.
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# ? May 7, 2020 21:42 |
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# ? Apr 25, 2024 23:35 |
And it’s directly based on a Mormon belief, which encourages permanent relationships between incompatible and/or abusive people.
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# ? May 7, 2020 22:53 |
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hyperhazard posted:I think what gets me most about the imprinting (besides the pedophilia, good god) is that the women seem to have no say in it and Meyer's okay with that. She just kind of handwaves it away like "oh, you can't help but fall in love with someone who loves you so much." It doesn't matter if you're attracted to his personality, have similar goals in life, have shared interests or friends, actually enjoy being around him...nope, it's meant to be. Mormons.txt It's one of their fundamental beliefs about human relationships: that you had a family in heaven before you were even born, and need to find that family once you are born so you can be together forever in this life and the next. To do otherwise - to be gay or asexual or want a divorce or whatever - is to defy God's will. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 00:05 on May 8, 2020 |
# ? May 7, 2020 23:25 |
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Also don’t worry if you don’t get married in life, you’ll be assigned a husband in Heaven!
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# ? May 8, 2020 02:43 |
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It sure would have been interesting if Rachel had rejected imprinting, even though Meyer probably would have stuck in a message about education driving women away from Werewolf God's plan.
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# ? May 8, 2020 02:50 |
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I'm equally upset by the casual homophobia Jacob tosses out there like it's not hurtful. At least that part already seems dated from talking to people currently 16-18.
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# ? May 8, 2020 03:34 |
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Lord Zedd-Repulsa posted:I'm equally upset by the casual homophobia Jacob tosses out there like it's not hurtful. At least that part already seems dated from talking to people currently 16-18.
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# ? May 8, 2020 05:57 |
PetraCore posted:Was it homophobia or transphobia? If you mean the part where Jacob mocks the idea of Quil wearing pretty princess makeup, it's probably a sort of combination of the two that was common among teenagers 15 years ago. Even a kid who was ostensibly trying to be respectful of gay or trans people would still mock someone who seems emasculated if they felt a need to rib someone, or hurt them if it was an insult instead of friendly teasing. I'm sure it's still common today, but it wasn't exactly insidious bigotry amongst them unless they had something else predisposing them to violence.
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# ? May 8, 2020 07:17 |
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It’s also “you looked like a clown because you had a mob of three year old girls putting makeup on you.” I’ve been a good sport at young relatives’ parties and there were similar comments afterwards. No phobia about it, I looked ridiculous. I’m not going to post the pictures.
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# ? May 8, 2020 07:22 |
My ex put makeup on me for a test and it was not good. But I later did that Facebook "What would you look like as the opposite sex?" thing and found that I would have been one of the hottest girls I've ever seen.
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# ? May 8, 2020 08:41 |
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Meyer attempted to write Jacob’s chapter like a typical teenage boy (because Bella is soooooooo not typical) and fails at it quite a bit. I figure she’s drawing on growing up with brothers because I believe her kids were too young at the time, but from an editing standpoint the word choice alone is just...not accurate for a 16 year old
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# ? May 8, 2020 12:54 |
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I wonder if they're going to tell that girl that weird devoted family friend is going to be her husband, if they're going to just let that be a surprise. Jacob's "fourteen years of monkitude" line implies that he believes they're going to start dating as soon she turns seventeen But it's okay, because they're soulmates, so this is definitely what's best for her.
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# ? May 8, 2020 13:40 |
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Shwoo posted:I wonder if they're going to tell that girl that weird devoted family friend is going to be her husband, if they're going to just let that be a surprise. Jacob's "fourteen years of monkitude" line implies that he believes they're going to start dating as soon she turns seventeen
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# ? May 8, 2020 19:32 |
quote:I took off running, not for the dirt path through the weedy hedge, but in the shortest line toward the forest. I hurdled the first line of driftwood and then ripped my way through the briars, still running. I felt the little tears as the thorns cut into my skin, but I ignored them. Their sting would be healed before I made the trees. "Sir, our genetic tests indicate that you're a dog." quote:As soon as I was in the true forest, unbound by roads or houses, I skidded to a stop and kicked my shorts off. With quick, practiced moves, I rolled them up and tied them to the leather cord around my ankle. As I was still pulling the ends tight, I started shifting. The fire trembled down my spine, throwing tight spasms out along my arms and legs. It only took a second. The heat flooded through me, and I felt the silent shimmer that made me something else. I threw my heavy paws against the matted earth and stretched my back in one long, rolling extension. "It's not a problem if it doesn't hurt someone!" quote:For one half second, I remembered the awful moment at that unspeakable joke of a wedding. I’d been so insane with fury that I couldn’t make my body work right. I’d been trapped, shaking and burning, unable to make the change and kill the monster just a few feet away from me. It had been so confusing. Dying to kill him. Afraid to hurt her. My friends in the way. And then, when I was finally able to take the form I wanted, the order from my leader. The edict from the Alpha. If it had been just Embry and Quil there that night without Sam… would I have been able to kill the murderer, then? Of not being allowed to kill with impunity in public. quote:And then I was conscious of an audience. I was not alone in my thoughts. Please gently caress off. quote:Sam pretended not to notice. Where’s Quil and Jared? They watch each other bone quote:Sam sat back on his haunches and let another howl rip into the air. It was a signal and an order in one. Now I see why that blog had a count for every time Leah gets poo poo on for no reason. quote:Claim this, moron, she hissed, and then she really kicked it into gear. I dug my nails into the loam and shot myself forward. "He told me never to set foot in his neighborhood again or I'd be arrested." quote:I felt a jolt go through me as Seth thought Charlie’s name. This was it. The waiting was over. I ran faster, forcing myself to breathe, though my lungs felt kinda stiff all of a sudden. I have video of all of this stuff, and I can't post it yet because despite being just over 6 minutes long it goes from Kaure to the next chapter. The filmmakers accurately determined how much padding the book has (as well as how creepy the beach scene with Quil was) and massively abbreviated the movie. Even still, it required two films to fully cover. quote:So she would die of this disease, as far as Charlie knew. Would they let him view the corpse? The pale, perfectly still, unbreathing white body? They couldn’t let him touch the cold skin—he might notice how hard it was. They’d have to wait until she could hold still, could keep from killing Charlie and the other mourners. How long would that take? This will provide us with another opportunity to spot plot holes. When in wolf form, the wolves hear not only directed thoughts but the internal monologue. They effectively have the power to break the fourth wall and read the text. Will we see instances where Jacob thinks something and nobody notices because Meyer forgot about that? quote:Leah and I entered the clearing at nearly the same time. She was sure her nose led the way, though. She dropped onto her haunches beside her brother while I trotted forward to stand at Sam’s right hand. Paul circled and made room for me in my place. Note that under the treaty, Jacob rushing forward the way he wants to will give the vampires carte blanche to slaughter them and potentially the rest of the Quileute. This is possibly the worst impulse he could be having right now. quote:Jake, Seth thought, they aren’t our enemies. It's still not adequately explained why Jacob shifted into this line of thinking so rapidly after phasing for the first time. Within days he had immediately absorbed the full weight of his role and gained an extreme aggression toward vampires and loyalty to a treaty that he never knew existed. What would be way more interesting is if Meyer did have an explanation that got explored. Maybe the way everyone's thoughts and memories have been merging due to the hive mind confusion caused him to accidentally have his personality shifted to match the loyal enforcers and his thoughts are no longer truly his own. quote:So what are you going to do when Bella fights with them, Jacob? Huh? Seth demanded. As we know, all native folks are emotional and ruled by primitive instinct. quote:Jacob! Sam cautioned. Seth, shut up for a second. "I thought he found out and was on his way to kill me!" quote:We’re getting ready to go, I told him. Why don’t you swing by Kim’s and drag Jared out with your teeth? We’re going to need everyone. I want you to remember this scene really closely as we go on, and who's on which side of this argument. quote:Normal? "The treaty I literally never cared about until 7 months ago and that the pack leader thinks is outdated." quote:I honor my pack. I do what’s best for them. So that's a confirmation, two books after the first time it gets vaguely hinted at, that Alphas have mind control powers over the rest of the pack. quote:The pack is not attacking the Cullens without provocation. The spirit of the treaty remains. They are not a danger to our people, nor are they a danger to the people of Forks. Bella Swan made an informed choice, and we are not going to punish our former allies for her choice. Why does everyone hate Seth so much? He's the most reasonable one here! quote:We don’t want you to leave, Sam told me, his thought softer than before. There's a lot of bad implications about the Alpha powers here. Is there something in the selection process that makes sure it only grants the position to guys who won't misuse their mind control? I would be surprised, since the position seems to be genetic (Jacob was the Alpha by lineage but refused the position) unless the packs collectively select a new leader. You're basically relying on every Alpha being totally selfless and not, say, a crazy rapist or murderer. quote:I ran away from them, trying very hard not to think about what was next. Instead, I concentrated on my memories of the long wolf months, of letting the humanity bleed out of me until I was more animal than man. Living in the moment, eating when hungry, sleeping when tired, drinking when thirsty, and running—running just to run. Simple desires, simple answers to those desires. Pain came in easily managed forms. The pain of hunger. The pain of cold ice under your paws. The pain of cutting claws when dinner got feisty. Each pain had a simple answer, a clear action to end that pain. "Not like being white." quote:Yet, as soon as I was in jogging distance of my house, I shifted back into my human body. I needed to be able to think in privacy.
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# ? May 11, 2020 13:36 |
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I don't think I registered how fast the werewolves pop into existence fully formed. I wasn't picturing American Werewolf in London or anything, but for some reason "poof, giant dog" was not my mental image.
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# ? May 11, 2020 17:53 |
Grammarchist posted:I don't think I registered how fast the werewolves pop into existence fully formed. I wasn't picturing American Werewolf in London or anything, but for some reason "poof, giant dog" was not my mental image. If you’re going to disregard thermodynamics you might as well do it quickly.
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# ? May 11, 2020 19:30 |
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If vampires can sparkle in sunlight, werewolves can shapeshift with zero pain and no body horror transition.
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# ? May 12, 2020 12:34 |
Chapter 9: Sure As Hell Didn't See That One Coming I guess Meyer has to differentiate Jacob as well by unusually long chapter titles. quote:I didn't really plan to say goodbye to my father. Are the wolf packs throughout history normally this unstable? quote:But Billy was expecting me, knowing I’d be in some kind of state. He was in the yard, just sitting there in his wheelchair with his eyes right on the spot where I came through the trees. I saw him judge my direction—headed straight past the house to my homemade garage. quote:“You’re gonna wreck that chair, you know. And then you’ll be dragging yourself around by your elbows.” Does Paul ever get any redeeming features or is he just going to remain a violent jackass for the rest of canon? quote:“Tell Rachel to go stay at his place.” Neither Rebecca nor her husband, Solomon Finau, will appear. quote:“Well, I’m going to go work on some stuff.…” I started for the back door. Most of those leeches are much nicer people than you. quote:“Jake…” Shows up to weddings just so he can hit on the bride and try to kill the groom. quote:“Jake, look at me.” And here we see our protagonist cutting off his disabled father's phone to keep him from stopping him breaking their treaty and getting murdered by a pack of vampires. quote:“Jake, wait—,” he called after me, but I was out the door, running. Deal with it...how? You're facing two groups that can effortlessly overpower you. quote:I kicked the bike to life and then I was racing down the muddy lane. I didn’t look behind me as I passed the house. Just his ego, right? Not yours? quote:So I’d just walk in, see Sam’s precious evidence for myself, and then challenge Edward to a duel. That is exactly what Sam would say. quote:The drive opened up into the meadow, and the smell hit me like a rotten tomato to the face. Ugh. Reeking vampires. My stomach started churning. The stench would be hard to take this way—undiluted by the scent of humans as it had been the other time I’d come here—though not as bad as smelling it through my wolf nose. Carlisle is very good at instantly deflating this guy's macho posturing. quote:I took a deep breath through my mouth. The reek pouring through the door was overpowering. Make Carlisle the protagonist instead. quote:And then I heard Bella’s voice, cracked and rough, and I couldn’t think about anything else. I would love a twist where Bella is actually a newborn vampire and they're letting her eat Jacob. quote:“Excuse me,” I said to the doctor as I stepped around him. It was hard—it went against all my instincts to turn my back to one of them. Not impossible, though. If there was such a thing as a safe vampire, it was the strangely gentle leader. "Should I maybe reconsider my belief that all vampires are murderous monsters?" "No. It's the vampires who are wrong." quote:I sidestepped into the house, keeping my back to the wall. My eyes swept the room—it was unfamiliar. The last time I’d been in here it had been all done up for a party. Everything was bright and pale now. Including the six vampires standing in a group by the white sofa. Let's be real, there are a lot of things that could bring Edward to the extremes of drama. quote:I saw her at the same moment that I caught her scent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMSo4faQrZo We have finally gotten to the point where I can post this video. This shows just how much work the filmmakers of the Breaking Dawn adaptation had to work to cut down the book to a vaguely reasonable size and still have to put it into two movies to get everything important. Everything from Kaure speaking in her "alien tongue" to Edward up until this point was skillfully condensed into just over 6 minutes of footage. Not only was the scene with Quil and Claire (which only served to justify child grooming) excised, so was the entire sequence of events in which Sam tells Jacob not to be a dumbass and Jacob decides to Leeroy Jenkins his way in. quote:Not a lie. The story Charlie’d told Billy was not a story. While I stared, eyes bugging, her skin turned light green. The only person in Forks who didn't instantly like her on the spot. quote:There was no fear as Bella glanced up at her now. Her expression was… apologetic or something. Then Rosalie snatched a basin from the floor and held it under Bella’s chin just in time for Bella to throw up noisily into it. Somehow Edward is finding even more overblown theatrics. He's a walking opera. quote:I didn’t realize my legs had carried me forward until Rosalie hissed at me, suddenly appearing between me and the couch. She was like a person on a TV screen. I didn’t care she was there. She didn’t seem real. Please stop calling her "Blondie" like you're a thug in a PG-rated action movie from the 80s. quote:“Bella, what’s wrong?” I whispered. Without thinking about it, I found myself on my knees, too, leaning over the back of the couch across from her… husband. He didn’t seem to notice me, and I barely glanced at him. I reached out for her free hand, taking it in both of mine. Her skin was icy. “Are you all right?” "I'm sure you didn't come here with the intention of killing me and my entire family!" quote:Even though I knew Edward couldn’t hear her thoughts, he seemed to hear some meaning I didn’t. He moaned again, into the blanket that covered her, and she stroked his cheek. It says a lot when her snapping at her best friend is their "normal" means of communication. quote:Rosalie pulled Bella off the couch. Edward stayed where he was, sagging forward till his face was buried in the cushions. The blanket fell to the ground at Bella’s feet. Edward is turning what should be a tragedy into a comedy. quote:Bella’s body was swollen, her torso ballooning out in a strange, sick way. It strained against the faded gray sweatshirt that was way too big for her shoulders and arms. The rest of her seemed thinner, like the big bulge had grown out of what it had sucked from her. It took me a second to realize what the deformed part was—I didn’t understand until she folded her hands tenderly around her bloated stomach, one above and one below. Like she was cradling it. Maybe she had some of Alex Jones's chili? quote:I didn’t want to see this, didn’t want to think about this. I didn’t want to imagine him inside her. I didn’t want to know that something I hated so much had taken root in the body I loved. My stomach heaved, and I had to swallow back vomit. The one thing that can snap Edward out of melodrama is the chance to kill someone. quote:The big one, Emmett, pushed forward on Edward’s other side, with the hungry-looking one, Jasper, right behind him. I really didn’t care. Maybe my pack would clean up the scraps when they finished me off. Maybe not. It didn’t matter. "For no reason other than the author wanting her to get poo poo on in this book." quote:“No,” Bella gasped, and she stumbled forward, out of balance, to clutch at Edward’s arm. Rosalie moved with her, like there was a chain locking them to each other. You haven't even transformed, man. This guy is so fast that you'll be torn in half while still shaking and heating up on the lawn. quote:He kept walking, never checking to see if I was about to spring at his unprotected back. I supposed he didn’t need to check. He would know when I decided to attack. Which meant I’d have to make that decision very quickly. chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jun 4, 2020 |
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# ? May 12, 2020 15:10 |
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I thought it would be impossible to find a main character as loathsome as the 50 Shades ones, but I was wrong.
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# ? May 12, 2020 18:15 |
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I mean, that's literally these characters with some serial numbers filed off...
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# ? May 12, 2020 18:17 |
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Did Meyer really just sideline whatever discussion Carlisle and Rosalie would have had with Bella about what was at stake? I guess that would have been suspiciously close to a doctor helping a woman make informed decisions about her own health. There's a ton of character interplay with Rosalie we're just not allowed to see, which is weird given she seems to have helped the protagonist during a major crisis. It's like how Seth and Edward fought vampires together once so they're friends now.
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# ? May 12, 2020 19:52 |
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1998 British series 'Ultraviolet' had an episode about a vampiric pregnancy and it was excellent. It included two of the team, a doctor and a Catholic priest, arguing furiously about whether the pregnancy should be ended. "Have you ever performed an abortion?" "Have you ever sanctioned one?" "It's not human." "It may be half human." "That's what I said." Also includes the woman in question going to look for some advice only to look around the clinic she's in and gasp in horrified tones. "You're PRO LIFE!" That was a good show about vampires.
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# ? May 12, 2020 21:32 |
Grammarchist posted:Did Meyer really just sideline whatever discussion Carlisle and Rosalie would have had with Bella about what was at stake? I guess that would have been suspiciously close to a doctor helping a woman make informed decisions about her own health. There's a ton of character interplay with Rosalie we're just not allowed to see, which is weird given she seems to have helped the protagonist during a major crisis. We do get more about Rosalie's position in this later, but this will rapidly become another one of those situations where Meyer doesn't know how to do complex characters and so just has everyone start acting like raging, unreasonable assholes when necessary. Also I promise you have no idea where this conversation between Jacob and Edward is going.
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# ? May 12, 2020 22:20 |
quote:He kept walking, maybe a couple hundred yards down the drive away from the house, with me right on his heels. I was all hot, my fingers trembling. On the edge, ready and waiting. Remember when you tried to fake a suicide attempt to get Bella to make out with you? quote:He raised a hand as if to wipe sweat from his forehead, but his fingers scraped against his face like they were going to rip his granite skin right off. His black eyes burned in their sockets, out of focus, or seeing things that weren’t there. His mouth opened like he was going to scream, but nothing came out. This is what happens when you're raised not knowing what condoms are. quote:“My fault,” Edward whispered, and his knees gave out. He crumpled in front of me, vulnerable, the easiest target you could imagine. Let's not think too hard about how the white vampires are portrayed as cold, the dark-skinned Quileute are portrayed as hot, and Jacob is now saying he's closer to the vampires. Because the implications will actually get more obvious later on! quote:“Yes,” he groaned into the dirt, like he was confessing to the ground. “Yes, it’s killing her.” So this is where I mentioned that Meyer's own attempt at an anti-abortion moral message is going to collide with the fictional reality she's created. Nobody actually knows if this vampire baby is going to come out viable, or if it might be the worst kind of immortal child where a permanent infant is given vampire superpowers and an infant's morality (something Ray Bradbury wrote about in The Small Assassin). Even if you were anti-abortion, unless you were the most radical kind, this would absolutely be a case where an abortion would be considered the smartest idea for the safety of not just the mother but the entire town. quote:“You know her well,” he whispered. “How quickly you see.… I didn’t see. Not in time. She wouldn’t talk to me on the way home, not really. I thought she was frightened—that would be natural. I thought she was angry with me for putting her through this, for endangering her life. Again. I never imagined what she was really thinking, what she was resolving. Not until my family met us at the airport and she ran right into Rosalie’s arms. Rosalie’s! And then I heard what Rosalie was thinking. I didn’t understand until I heard that. Yet you understand after one second.…” He half-sighed, half-groaned. So is this canon that the internal monologue of Jacob and Bella actually their thoughts exactly spelled out for any mind readers in the cast? quote:“So take the blonde out first. Your kind can be put back together, right? Turn her into a jigsaw and take care of Bella.” Horrible, but technically correct! quote:“Emmett and Esme are backing her up. Emmett would never let us… and Carlisle won’t help me with Esme against it.…” He trailed off, his voice disappearing. "Let me do it instead!" quote:He stared up at me from inside his own personal hell, and I could see that he agreed with me. No no, he's right. This guy has spent the past century flopping himself dramatically across couches and wailing at why God has forsaken him, killing humans because he was tired of living off animal blood, and then wailing at how he's a monster. quote:“Killing me now doesn’t save her,” he said quietly. I still don't see it. Anything that could imply a legitimate emotional connection different from Edward was kept mostly off-screen, and almost all of their interactions since his transformation have been them arguing or Jacob sexually assaulting her before she goes "I can't be mad, you're my best friend!" quote:“Why would she?” This is going somewhere. quote:“I don’t care about anything but keeping her alive,” he said, suddenly focused now. “If it’s a child she wants, she can have it. She can have half a dozen babies. Anything she wants.” He paused for one beat. “She can have puppies, if that’s what it takes.” Yes. quote:He met my stare for a moment and his face was frenzied under the thin layer of control. My hard scowl crumbled as I processed his words, and I felt my mouth pop open in shock. Yes, Edward's master plan is "If you get an abortion, I'll let Jacob impregnate you instead." quote:“That’s the craziest thing you’ve said yet,” I mumbled. Jesus Christ. quote:“Don’t you know her at all?” Strategic cucking. quote:So tempting. Every time you think this book has hit a new low, it takes a sledgehammer to the foundation. quote:I tried to escape the venomous weed in my mind. “Make Bella see sense? What universe do you live in?” The author definitely is! quote:“I’ve been thinking of nothing but ways to save her since I realized what she was planning to do. What she would die to do. But I didn’t know how to contact you. I knew you wouldn’t listen if I called. I would have come to find you soon, if you hadn’t come today. But it’s hard to leave her, even for a few minutes. Her condition… it changes so fast. The thing is… growing. Swiftly. I can’t be away from her now.” Again, you can't write an anti-abortion narrative if you're going to make the baby literally explode the mother from the inside out and then potentially eat the rest of Forks. quote:“Help me stop it,” he whispered. “Help me stop this from happening.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUrMO3YjRRo quote:“But it won’t work.” How is this still going? quote:“Not now,” he whispered. “Not yet. Right or wrong, it would destroy her, and you know it. No need to be hasty. If she won’t listen to you, you’ll get your chance. The moment Bella’s heart stops beating, I will be begging for you to kill me.”
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# ? May 13, 2020 14:40 |
Maybe this is supposed to be about male gaze and how it reinforces the patriarchy. IDK, taking it at face value as it is feels gross so my brain is really trying to come up with some sort of authorial intent to deconstruct the larger ideas of selling/valuing women for their child bearing potential and all the side arguments by men about abortion while the women are strangely silenced and just do their thing as best they can. It's bella's body/life and she's made a very clear choice which everyone acknowledges, yet only esme/rosalie/emmett are on board with that? Meanwhile here is bella's husband colluding with her ex to distract her long enough to forcibly abort the baby he regrets conceiving. Even carlisle is presented as being neutral. Just filing the supernatural bits off, this is powerful stuff, but instead of focusing on any of that from the bella or rosalie or esme pov, we have this jacob lens to see it all through. Presumably Alice also saw all of this and -tacitly approved- by staying silent. Since you know, "WHO COULD HAVE KNOWN?" by our idiot flopster Edward just really drives it home. So that makes a full sweep of the women in the group being silent and taking action to keep the baby. It sure would be nice to have one of their viewpoints here to contrast with.
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# ? May 13, 2020 15:12 |
Anias posted:Presumably Alice also saw all of this and -tacitly approved- by staying silent. Since you know, "WHO COULD HAVE KNOWN?" by our idiot flopster Edward just really drives it home. So that makes a full sweep of the women in the group being silent and taking action to keep the baby. It sure would be nice to have one of their viewpoints here to contrast with. Alice's future vision is so inconsistent that it seems to only exist as a plot device. In New Moon she flew all the way back to Forks because her vision of Bella's cliff jump was so perfectly accurate that she had to make sure she wasn't dead. All the way back in the very first book, Alice sees a potential future of Bella as a vampire with them. When Bella calls her after being impregnated, she doesn't seem to have foreseen that happening at all. Maybe she was being polite and not watching them gently caress?
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# ? May 13, 2020 15:20 |
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Anias posted:Maybe this is supposed to be about male gaze and how it reinforces the patriarchy. IDK, taking it at face value as it is feels gross so my brain is really trying to come up with some sort of authorial intent to deconstruct the larger ideas of selling/valuing women for their child bearing potential and all the side arguments by men about abortion while the women are strangely silenced and just do their thing as best they can. It's lazy, lazy writing, and sentences like "His black eyes burned in their sockets, out of focus, or seeing things that weren’t there. His mouth opened like he was going to scream, but nothing came out" remind me of the totally dark and edgy stories I used to write when I was 14-15.
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# ? May 13, 2020 16:17 |
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Oh my god, a young adult book published in 2008 and marketed heavily to young women has two prominent male characters making a deal to loan out a woman who's married to one of them. Gross! And for the cherry on top, there are hints of the same sorts of thinking that brings us poo poo like "black bull knocks up my white wife while I watch them" porn. This is filth.
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# ? May 13, 2020 20:12 |
Turns out Bella and Edward put "Berth ell pup" on all the wedding invitations.
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# ? May 13, 2020 20:18 |
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You were right. I had no idea what was coming and I refuse to ponder how this goes now.
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# ? May 13, 2020 23:46 |
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chitoryu12 posted:Turns out Bella and Edward put "Berth ell pup" on all the wedding invitations. I hate that I get this.
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# ? May 13, 2020 23:57 |
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hyperhazard posted:I hate that I get this. I did some googling and it's eluding me.
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# ? May 14, 2020 00:26 |
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Midjack posted:I did some googling and it's eluding me. https://archive.is/OBpSU Update, with the famous line: http://archive.is/wu9O5
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# ? May 14, 2020 00:48 |
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hyperhazard posted:It's from a reddit post a few years ago where a fiance had a cuckold fetish. I'll let it speak for itself. Well that's cool I guess. Thanks for the explanation.
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# ? May 14, 2020 00:55 |
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chitoryu12 posted:Turns out Bella and Edward put "Berth ell pup" on all the wedding invitations. I bet Edward's going to completely reverse his opinion once the baby's born and turn into a proud father. I only know roughly what happens, but it feels like this is where this is going.
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# ? May 14, 2020 03:11 |
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I had completely forgotten about this part because Bella’s physical state stands out to me more and I can’t believe how grody this whole exchange is. With all the dancing around the actual subject I wonder how many readers caught on to the implications of what Edward was suggesting.
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# ? May 14, 2020 08:25 |
Chapter 10: Why Didn't I Just Walk Away? Oh Right, Because I'm An Idiot. These chapter titles are somehow getting worse. quote:I felt like - like I don't know what. Like this wasn't real. Like I was in some Goth version of a bad sitcom. Instead of being the A/V dweeb about to ask the head cheerleader to the prom, I was the finished-second-place werewolf about to ask the vampire's wife to shack up and procreate. Nice. From a bizarre native cuckold fantasy to a middle-aged woman trying to write clever teen dialogue. quote:No, I wouldn't do it. It was twisted and wrong. I was going to forget all about what he'd said. Alice carefully keeping her future vision powers turned off. quote:I hesitated in the open doorway, not sure what to do now. It was better right there, with a little bit of breathable air blowing in from outside. Very carefully trying not to let slip that his plan is "Jacob will raw dog Bella in return for an abortion." quote:"Over my pile of ashes," Rosalie hissed at him. She was still hovering by Bella's head, one of her cold hands placed possessively on Bella's sallow cheek. Jacob must have been looking especially murderous when he walked in, since Alice can't read his future to see that he was coming to slaughter the family. quote:"Carlisle and I will always be in your sight, Rosalie," Edward said. The emotionless voice was cracking, showing the anger through it. "We're the ones she's afraid of." And in-universe, all of her martyrdom has historically been useless. quote:"Everyone," Edward said, his hand stiffly motioning toward the door. "Please." "Abortion clinic scary." quote:She laughed. "It's so good having you here. It feels nice to smile. I don't know how much more drama I can stand." "Especially not the part where I demanded that you break up with your boyfriend to date me instead!" quote:She sighed. Specifically, Mr. Burns. quote:"Missed that one." He's still trying to figure out what the gently caress is going on with the plot. quote:I did know this - every second I spent with her was only going to add to the pain I would have to suffer later. Like a junkie with a limited supply, the day of reckoning was coming for me. The more hits I took now, the harder it would be when my supply ran out. No, Edward is supposed to be the junkie analogue here! quote:"It'll work out, you know," she said after a quiet minute. "I believe that." Imagine someone saying this in real life about a non-viable pregnancy that will inevitably result in her death. quote:"Magic?" You should be! quote:As it was, I did growl at her. Jacob has had it up to here with Meyer's writing! quote:She sighed. "I don't know yet, Jake. But I just... feel... that this is all going somewhere good, hard to see as it is now. I guess you could call it faith." Yeah, that's a great lesson to teach young girls who might be struggling with a dangerous pregnancy later in life. quote:"That's a load of crap, Bella. You've been trying to keep up with the supernatural for too long. No normal person can do it. You're not strong enough." I took her face in my hand. I didn't have to remind myself to be gentle. Everything about her screamed breakable. He turns out to be absolutely correct, in fact. quote:"I can do this. I can do this," she muttered, sounding a lot like that kids' book about the little engine that could. Unfortunately, this is not actually an option in real life. quote:I felt a sudden twinge of guilt about the good vampire doctor, like before. I shoved the thought away and started in on the begging. Someone please just tell Edward what a bonfire is. quote:Struggling to make my voice softer, I asked, "Remember when I got mangled up by those newborns? What did you tell me?" I still think it would be a great twist for Bella to just die and have the baby be a monster. quote:"You're very pessimistic, Jacob. There is definitely a chance that I might walk away from this." Is she trying on purpose to make Bella seem divorced from reality? quote:"What's the deal, Bella?" I stared at the pale carpet. My bare feet were dirty, leaving smudges. Good. "I thought the whole point was that you wanted your vampire more than anything. And now you're just giving him up? That doesn't make any sense. Since when are you desperate to be a mom? If you wanted that so much, why did you marry a vampire?" This is your sudden reminder that Jacob is actually doing this entire book wearing nothing but jorts. Not even shoes. quote:I was dangerously close to that offer he wanted me to make. I could see the words taking me that way, but I couldn't change their direction. From Meyer's perspective, Bella is in the right and will turn out to be vindicated. From a realistic perspective, Edward and Jacob are right: they don't even know if this is going to be less "viable pregnancy" and more "actual superpowered monster." Read the room. quote:She gasped then and clutched at her stomach. My fury vanished like a light switch being turned off. Oh yeah, this will get even more horrifying. quote:I almost gagged, and I understood what he'd said, about watching it hurt her. Suddenly, I felt a little crazy myself. He's shooting his shot! quote:She frowned. She raised one hand and touched the place where my eyebrows were mashing together. Her fingers smoothed my forehead for a moment while she tried to make sense of it. This is extremely uncomfortable. quote:She frowned, suspicious. "Did he tell you to say that?" "For some...some dumb stupid normal baby!" quote:"You don't have to hurt him," I whispered. It burned like poison in my mouth to beg for him, but I knew this angle was probably my best bet for keeping her alive. Still a thousand-to-one odds. "You could make him happy again, Bella. And I really think he's losing it. Honestly, I do." All right, what's going to be her reaction to finding out that Edward just sent Jacob in to impregnate her? quote:It was silent for a few heartbeats. I looked down at my feet again, unable to meet her stare. Oh. She's completely okay with it and takes it as a sign of their love for her. Cool. quote:"It makes no difference, though, does it?" She just gives love a bad name. quote:"I don't think I do." I legitimately do not think I could keep being friends with Jacob this far in. quote:"Will you come back again? Before ..."
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# ? May 14, 2020 16:17 |
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chitoryu12 posted:From Meyer's perspective, Bella is in the right and will turn out to be vindicated. From a realistic perspective, Edward and Jacob are right: they don't even know if this is going to be less "viable pregnancy" and more "actual superpowered monster." Read the room. I haven't watched the movies, so I'm just picturing the scene in Frisky Dingo where Antagone gives birth to Cody 2, and Wendell rides it around the city as it crushes everyone.
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# ? May 14, 2020 19:03 |
Also, this is one place where the film does make a change that causes a bit of an issue. The story about immortal children is shifted into Breaking Dawn Part 2 after the birth, to provide a setup for what conflict occurs immediately afterward. However, Carlisle at least should know about this and have explained to Bella all of the dangers of one. Instead he just keeps quiet until it becomes relevant again. In the book, it makes Bella's obsession with her vampire baby even more crazy because she's already been made aware of exactly how dangerous immortal children are. An immortal newborn (if such a thing is possible) would be even more dangerous, as it would lack even the barest vestiges of morality and simply operate on highly destructive instinct. The fact that the fetus is kicking hard enough injure her indicates that it's not a human child. From all evidence they're operating on, it would be completely reasonable to conclude that whatever comes out of her could easily be so dangerous as to require immediate termination after it kills Bella. As a very strong pro-choice advocate, I would consider it a moral imperative to ignore the mother in this case. And this goes back to how Stephenie Meyer responded to criticism of Bella's weakness and gradual adherence to standard gender roles. She claims that her books are feminist because Bella is always the one making choices for herself. What she neglects to notice is that all of the choices gradually bring Bella to the standard of a good Mormon housewife (vampirism excluded) who gets married, cooks and cleans, and has children immediately after marriage. In this case, it's pushed so strongly that it actually requires other characters to behave illogically to be painted as the villains in a standoff.
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# ? May 14, 2020 21:27 |
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# ? Apr 25, 2024 23:35 |
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chitoryu12 posted:What she neglects to notice is that all of the choices gradually bring Bella to the standard of a good Mormon housewife (vampirism excluded) who gets married, cooks and cleans, and has children immediately after marriage. In this case, it's pushed so strongly that it actually requires other characters to behave illogically to be painted as the villains in a standoff. And Bella seems to have no interests or hobbies outside of getting married and being a good Mormon housewife. She doesn't seem to read, travel, play video games, write, play sports, or do anything that doesn't revolve around supporting her family. She seems to have never had any aspirations beyond finding a husband who will take care of her.
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# ? May 14, 2020 21:37 |