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Ghost Leviathan posted:The Dursleys are generally super loving abusive especially in the early books; in the second or third book I think they've barricaded Harry in his room and the Weasleys have to break him out. (Luckily they know how to pick locks the non magical way) The Dursleys are one of the most noticeable instances of the books shifting from "Wacky and Whimsical Fairy Tale" to YA. The Dursleys are so obscene in their abuse in the early books it comes across as almost comical, which is most likely because it's meant to mirror the "Wicked Step-Family" trope of stuff like Cinderella. Then as the books mature along with their audience The Dursleys abuse tapers off hard into more common (if still horrifying) abuse because all of a sudden stuff is supposed to be serious.
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May 3, 2020 23:58
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There's definitely a horror movie scenario in the Dursleys' situation, though. They spend years abusing this kid due to hosed up family dynamics and then they find out he's capable of unknown but clearly lethal power; 9 months or so after they find this out, he comes back from his crazy magic school having learned god knows what and maybe he killed a teacher? and they gotta live with him and they know he's not happy with em i mean it's basically the dynamics of akira
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May 4, 2020 06:37
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It also doesn't help that when they engage with magical stuff they usually ends up getting physically hosed up from it. Hagrid gives Dudley a pig's tail that needs to be surgically removed, then Marge gets turned into a loving balloon and flies out into the country, when the Weasleys come to pick Harry up for the Quidditch world cup the Twins slip Dudley candy that makes his tongue grow until Arthur can reverse it (at four feet long), then Dudley almost gets his soul sucked out by a Dementor and finally they need to spend a year in protective custody because someone wants to murder their nephew. Like goddamn Dudley should have some serious scars from all that.
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May 4, 2020 07:13
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He kinda does. Weirdly enough the Dementor attack seemed to have actually had a net positive effect on Dudley as he starts treating Harry way better and they're actually on speaking terms as adults. Kinda the deal is they refuse to actually talk to Harry about anything and assume that everything that goes on his his fault, while Dudley actually sees enough first-hand to realise Harry's dealing with horrible and unknowable bullshit of a much larger world, and I imagine once they get to the point where the wizards are taking them into protective custody from verified magical murderers as he's starting to become an adult, he looks back on how his parents acted and realises how dangerously stupid they've been.
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May 4, 2020 07:43
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Aglet56 posted:There's definitely a horror movie scenario in the Dursleys' situation, though. They spend years abusing this kid due to hosed up family dynamics and then they find out he's capable of unknown but clearly lethal power; 9 months or so after they find this out, he comes back from his crazy magic school having learned god knows what and maybe he killed a teacher? and they gotta live with him and they know he's not happy with em Great, you just made me remember that Alan Moore did that whole thing in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen where Harry Potter is the Antichrist and shoots lightning bolts out of his dick.
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May 4, 2020 14:10
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Aglet56 posted:There's definitely a horror movie scenario in the Dursleys' situation, though. They spend years abusing this kid due to hosed up family dynamics and then they find out he's capable of unknown but clearly lethal power; 9 months or so after they find this out, he comes back from his crazy magic school having learned god knows what and maybe he killed a teacher? and they gotta live with him and they know he's not happy with em They spend years abusing him because they know he's a wizard, and they don't like wizards / want to beat the magic out of him.
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May 4, 2020 14:40
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Sleeveless posted:Great, you just made me remember that Alan Moore did that whole thing in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen where Harry Potter is the Antichrist and shoots lightning bolts out of his dick. Alan Moore produced some great poo poo and then some just poo poo.
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May 4, 2020 16:46
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Zore posted:the Twins slip Dudley candy that makes his tongue grow until Arthur can reverse it (at four feet long) This one was pretty funny, because it operates on the idea that dudley cannot resist candy, even candy that has been dropped on the floor.
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May 4, 2020 18:07
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https://twitter.com/leslieleeiii/status/1256985769278930944
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May 5, 2020 00:15
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Sci-Fi Wi-Fi, I hereby request you make your best Something Awful to Harry Potter analogies!
Roth fucked around with this message at 15:28 on May 14, 2020 |
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May 12, 2020 21:51
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Roth posted:Sci-Fi Wi-Fi, I hereby request you make your best Something to Harry Potter analogies! this is just like when snape assigned the wizard class analogies as homework
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May 12, 2020 21:55
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I am clearly McGonagall!
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May 12, 2020 21:57
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What's the average percentage of students that survive a full stint at Hogwarts? Like 70% maybe? They basically give 11 year olds handguns, I would have died or killed someone about 4 or 5 times a year. also to add to the "wizards are assholes" pile; was everyone just OK with the tortured dragon in the bank? Oh yeah muggles are the threat? Last time I checked they didn't have bear baiting at my local Barclays (They also don't require you to be a certain race to work there)
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May 13, 2020 05:29
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Goblins are known for their callous indifference, particularly if increasing personal wealth is involved. Thus: they are the Swiss bankers of the wizarding world.
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May 13, 2020 14:29
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dialhforhero posted:Goblins are known for their callous indifference, particularly if increasing personal wealth is involved. Thus: they are the Swiss bankers of the wizarding world. You know that is not the ethnic group that Rowling meant.
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May 13, 2020 14:47
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Mickey Rooney is Dobby the House Elf
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May 13, 2020 16:23
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Tulip posted:You know that is not the ethnic group that Rowling meant. I'm inclined to believe it wasn't conscious antisemitism, but yeah it was antisemitic. It's one of those situations where to Rowling, the dogwhistles were just.... whistles.
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May 13, 2020 16:28
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Tulip posted:You know that is not the ethnic group that Rowling meant. I almost typed out Jewish but I just didn’t have the heart because I thought it would derail. 
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May 13, 2020 17:43
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I'm going to actually defend Rowling on the Goblin thing under the same logic as to why I defend Tolkien about his Dwarves not being anti-semitic or similarly how the Ferengi in Star Trek aren't anti-semetic. Little greedy gremlin things that hoard wealth is a universal trope that exists outside of the cultures knowledge of even the existence of Jewish people. Just like Tolkien's Dwarves are lifted straight from Norse Mythology. Rowling's Goblins seem to me similarly pulled from all the Leprechauns etc. of folklore. Jewish people aren't little greedy gremlins, it's that being a persecuted minority means Jews get saddled with the accusation of all bad traits and things like greed and hoarding money are pretty much universally despised traits throughout human history in all cultures. Bigotry of all stripes simply assigns "bad" traits to whoever it doesn't like. Seriously look at how many bigoted caricatures are identical across Sexism, Racism, Religious background etc. Theres's stereotypes in East Asia of white people being big-nosed and obsessed with money. The Ferengi in Star Trek are specifically meant to be modern White people and are even specifically called out as such. Which makes it even more hilarious when people accuse them of being Jewish despite them being most prominent in a series where they share all their screen time with aliens who actually are a metaphor for Jewish people (The Bajorans).
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May 13, 2020 18:28
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Yeah the thing is, it’s hard to distinguish between something influenced by history or not. I (want to) believe Christopher Columbus didn’t say “let’s make the goblins at Gringot’s look like that Jewish trope” just like I believe Jim Henson didn’t either for his creations. I am pretty sure Rowling didn’t either, but the unfortunate reality is there has been some bleed over between stereotypes. Peter Jackson probably did the best at steering clear of it with his Goblins/Orcs.
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May 13, 2020 19:59
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Ugh Voldemort winning is just like the time that german guy took over the chancellorship
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May 13, 2020 20:27
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Goons will spend years of their adult life in the thrall of a video game where trolls have dreadlocks and smoke weed and practice voodoo and the minotaurs live in teepees and smoke peace pipes and tell you to keep your ear to the ground and commune with nature and the pandas love kung fu and philosophy and worship a jade dragon and then turn around and scoff at how all the normies are crypto-fascists because Harry Potter references real-world historical mythology on par with leprechauns having a pot of gold.
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May 13, 2020 20:37
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Pick posted:Ugh Voldemort winning is just like the time that german guy took over the chancellorship I didn’t know Palpatine was German
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May 13, 2020 20:37
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Yeah I don't think the goblins are intentionally meant to represent Jews but I can see how people see it like that. More likely it's just a bit of poorly thought out trope mixing on JKs part, definitely could have done something a bit more sensitive. However you view it though, the Idea of only one race doing a certain job says a lot about the wizarding world. Goblins are only represented in wizarding society via the Department for regulation and control of magical creatures. As far as wizards are concerned they're basically animals same goes for house elves and I presume giants which explains a lot about the discrimination Hagrid is subjected too and maybe the reason he's so fond of other magical creatures. The wizarding world is already a xenophobic authoritarian nightmare, Voldemort etc. just want to take it to its logical conclusion.
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May 13, 2020 22:38
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Sleeveless posted:Goons will spend years of their adult life in the thrall of a video game where trolls have dreadlocks and smoke weed and practice voodoo and the minotaurs live in teepees and smoke peace pipes and tell you to keep your ear to the ground and commune with nature and the pandas love kung fu and philosophy and worship a jade dragon and then turn around and scoff at how all the normies are crypto-fascists because Harry Potter references real-world historical mythology on par with leprechauns having a pot of gold. Who at Blizzard didn't double check where minotaurs live
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May 13, 2020 22:49
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it's insane because there's this huge, detailed paragraph in the order of the pheonix where the ministry of magic has this big dumb statue in the middle of their foyer depicting how wizards think of their relationship with other magical creatures and harry outright thinks 'that's bullshit' and then the rest of the books just completely drops this pretty important idea and it's never addressed again. it might be the third-most written about thing in fanfiction, after harry having gay sex and being a member of the nobility
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May 14, 2020 00:16
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Butternubs posted:Yeah I don't think the goblins are intentionally meant to represent Jews but I can see how people see it like that. More likely it's just a bit of poorly thought out trope mixing on JKs part, definitely could have done something a bit more sensitive. I hate that I remember this but I'm pretty sure the Goblins said gently caress Off to integration into Wizard Society so the Wizards classify them as creatures despite their intelligence and social structure. It was a digression in the Fantastic Beasts book.
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May 14, 2020 00:50
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JK Rowling's goblin bankers took on such a life in part because she spent five years yelling anyone who would listen that the way Jeremy Corbyn pronounced "Epstein" was yet another clear as day sign of the antisemitic mind.
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May 14, 2020 01:28
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josh04 posted:JK Rowling's goblin bankers took on such a life in part because she spent five years yelling anyone who would listen that the way Jeremy Corbyn pronounced "Epstein" was yet another clear as day sign of the antisemitic mind. Was she in Epstein's little black book?
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May 14, 2020 01:32
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ungulateman posted:it's insane because there's this huge, detailed paragraph in the order of the pheonix where the ministry of magic has this big dumb statue in the middle of their foyer depicting how wizards think of their relationship with other magical creatures and harry outright thinks 'that's bullshit' and then the rest of the books just completely drops this pretty important idea and it's never addressed again. it might be the third-most written about thing in fanfiction, after harry having gay sex and being a member of the nobility tbh that's the cool part. is the weird animals. like that's the poo poo everybody likes. big snake!! woah!!
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May 14, 2020 02:31
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I read the title as 'Harry Potter and the big mistake'galagazombie posted:I'm going to actually defend Rowling on the Goblin thing under the same logic as to why I defend Tolkien about his Dwarves not being anti-semitic or similarly how the Ferengi in Star Trek aren't anti-semetic. Little greedy gremlin things that hoard wealth is a universal trope that exists outside of the cultures knowledge of even the existence of Jewish people. Just like Tolkien's Dwarves are lifted straight from Norse Mythology. Rowling's Goblins seem to me similarly pulled from all the Leprechauns etc. of folklore. IIRC it didn't help that the Ferengi were often played by Jewish actors, but then again so's half of Star Trek. And the Vulcans are actually more Jewish inspired; the Vulcan Salute is half of an old Hebrew hand gesture. But their name is based on 'Farhang', an asian word (I forget exactly where) for white people. (originally based on 'Franks', aka French) It's especially driven home in Ferengi focus episodes where their culture and society is shown to be often far more like modern Western capitalist society, complete with advertising jingles, parking meters, sexism and objectification, merchandise for children's media, etc, than the basically communist Federation.
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May 14, 2020 10:16
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I read the title as 'Harry Potter and the big mistake' As I recall a lot of actual Vulcan TOS lore is derived from Leonard Nimoy coming up with things, including by applying his Jewish heritage, which I believe is exactly how the hand signal came to be. Spock remains the coolest Star Trek character by about a mile thanks to Nimoy's work. Like people are saying, Ferengi are antisemitic only in the sense that every greedy miser character is antisemitic if you work backwards from that conclusion. Cartoonishly anticapitalist is more like it.
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May 14, 2020 12:15
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I remembered there were these bits in the first book. One was Ron telling Harry how his mom had a distant cousin who was an accountant but no one in their clan ever liked talking about him. The other was Neville recounting how his family was worried for the longest time that he didn't have magic and his great-uncle kept trying to force it out of him. This includes pushing Neville off the pier where he almost drowned, and then dangling him by the legs by the upstairs window and then dropping him "by accident". It seemed like a silly worldbuilding detail at the time, but considering how later books implied that Squibs were like the mutant three-eyed offspring born from tons of inbreeding and treated as the secret shame of wizarding families, it's pretty hosed up.
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May 14, 2020 12:29
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Neville's case in particular becomes pretty hosed up in retrospect when you take into consideration what happened to his parents and why he was raised by his grandmother in the first place.
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May 14, 2020 12:48
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Sodomy Hussein posted:As I recall a lot of actual Vulcan TOS lore is derived from Leonard Nimoy coming up with things, including by applying his Jewish heritage, which I believe is exactly how the hand signal came to be. Spock remains the coolest Star Trek character by about a mile thanks to Nimoy's work. Reminded of Scrooge McDuck, who may only be an exception because he's an otherwise forgotten stereotype of Scotsmen being cheapskates. W.T. Fits posted:Neville's case in particular becomes pretty hosed up in retrospect when you take into consideration what happened to his parents and why he was raised by his grandmother in the first place. There is a bit where Harry meets Neville's parents in the hospital and realises that Neville probably deserves more sympathy than he does all things considered. Harry Potter does have some good bits in it, I feel, they just don't come together as well as they could. Might be why it's so popular for fanfiction and rewrites.
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May 14, 2020 14:17
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Ghost Leviathan posted:There is a bit where Harry meets Neville's parents in the hospital and realises that Neville probably deserves more sympathy than he does all things considered. yeah where Harry bumps into Neville at the hospital and learns that he visits his parents there every Christmas. They're permanent residents due to being rendered senile via magical torture; Neville's mom gives him a candy wrapper as a "gift." later in the book you learn that Neville's parents are like that because his birthday is close to Harry's, so he could have also potentially been the boy prophesied to defeat Voldemort. the Death Eaters tortured them stupid, just in case did either those plot points get mentioned in the movie or was it just glossed over Roth posted:Sci-Fi Wi-Fi, I hereby request you make your best Something to Harry Potter analogies! cor mate reading these posts is like having crucio performed on my eyeballs the amount of tiny details i remember from a so-so children's book series is greater than all the galleons in Gringotts' vault, yet in many ways makes me poorer than even the least successful Weasley
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May 14, 2020 14:59
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That candy wrapper was a horcrux.
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May 14, 2020 15:29
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There is a whole thing about how the prophesy Voldemort acted on was a bit of an either/or thing; Neville could have taken Harry's place as basically a coin flip on Voldemort's part.
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May 14, 2020 15:45
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Ghost Leviathan posted:There is a whole thing about how the prophesy Voldemort acted on was a bit of an either/or thing; Neville could have taken Harry's place as basically a coin flip on Voldemort's part. It was also being used to show Voldemort's ideology was hollow. He had the choice of two kids to go after, one who was a pureblooded wizard from a storied lineage while the other was a halfblood because Harry's mother was muggle-born. Despite everything that he ostensibly believed and taught about blood purity over all, Voldemort decided the half-blood was the bigger threat he had to handle personally.
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May 14, 2020 15:52
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It's a decent attempt at trying to reconcile how problematic Chosen One narratives are by making it so that there was nothing intrinsically special about Harry. Aside from his family's wealth and privelege of course, but even then Neville covercomes all that to basically be Harry's equal and carrying on his work at Hogwarts in the final book.
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May 14, 2020 15:59
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