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Beef Stew
Dec 27, 2009

pseudanonymous posted:

Yes but why? Why the elaborate plot with having Sansa bring the poison in and someone else take it off them and use it? Doesn't that seem unnecessarily complex?

Sansa flees after anyway, so they would've blamed her anyway, so... why?

I think her escaping was a Littlefinger side plot that the Tyrells didn't know about. So maybe the Tyrells were planning on her and Tyrion both taking the fall? It still does seem overly complex and not make a ton of sense though.

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scary ghost dog
Aug 5, 2007
i think littlefinger told sansa that olenna used her to kill joffrey, but he was just making stuff up so sansa would come with him, he was probably planning to kidnap her at the wedding anyway. cersei probably accidentally poisoned joffrey and intended to poison tyrion. i believe this theory was posited by preston jacobs but it makes sense to me

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



scary ghost dog posted:

i believe this theory was posited by preston jacobs but it makes sense to me

Stop and think about that for a while.

TheIncredulousHulk
Sep 3, 2012

Like it's not really that complicated, GRRM just wanted to have Sansa involved and came up with a convoluted way of sneaking in the poison. It's what happened, even the ghost of High Heart mentions it. I don't think the Tyrells were planning on pinning it on her, they just didn't really give a poo poo who got blamed as long as it wasn't them.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

pseudanonymous posted:

Is there a definitive answer to like.. what happened at the Purple wedding? I mean I know there was this whole thing with Sansa and her jewelry. Was that the poison then? Was it magic? I thought the Queen of Thorns lady did it, so why put the poison on Sansa. Like was there a poison sniffer or something? I never understood what the point of that was, just to make Sansa feel guilty and needlessly complicate things?


The Queen of Thorns poisons Joffrey because she knows what sort of uncontrollable monster he is. She hid the poison in jewelry she gave Sansa, ensuring the poison will be available and it happened to help give a scapegoat so that the Lannisters wouldn't target them, since that'd ruin their plans to have the much less insane and more easily controlled prince marry the girl whose name I forgot already.

There's a reason everyone feared and/or respected that woman. She's no fool and she knows what sort of hell her granddaughter would be put through and the earlier chat with Sansa confirms for her that yes, Joffrey really is as horrible and mentally unhinged as everyone says and Sansa had the benefit of having been kept protected and chase for marriage.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep
We know all that, is just that she could have carried the poison in her pocket and it would have been the same (only safer)

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Elias_Maluco posted:

We know all that, is just that she could have carried the poison in her pocket and it would have been the same (only safer)

Its not safer though. If she was caught she couldn't try again and house Tyrell would be destroyed. If Sansa was caught house Tyrell would be safe and she could try again.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back




Elias_Maluco posted:

We know all that, is just that she could have carried the poison in her pocket and it would have been the same (only safer)

Sansa was a. guaranteed to be there and b. an easy scapegoat related to a family already known to be against the Lannisters. On the very, very slim chance the poison was found before Olenna had a chance to slip it into Joffrey's drink, better it be on the Stark girl than on her.

pseudanonymous
Aug 30, 2008

When you make the second entry and the debits and credits balance, and you blow them to hell.

esperterra posted:

Sansa was a. guaranteed to be there and b. an easy scapegoat related to a family already known to be against the Lannisters. On the very, very slim chance the poison was found before Olenna had a chance to slip it into Joffrey's drink, better it be on the Stark girl than on her.

Right but this relies on a conspirator who is a drunk and threatened with death and is Joffrey's jester. So like, does it really decrease the risk to go through these circumlocutions in order to have Sansa involved?

There's no mention of poison detecting or sniffing or people being searched ever, so it sure seems like the risk that Dontos will talk is much higher than that Olenna will be inspected for the first time ever.

scary ghost dog
Aug 5, 2007

Cavelcade posted:

Stop and think about that for a while.

i mean, joffrey ostentatiously eats tyrions food. i think he drinks his drink too. and cersei would still think tyrion killed him if she thinks he caught on to the poison and gave it to joffrey.

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.
Why didn't Olena just like shoot Joffrey you guys?

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
The purple wedding was underwhelming because it was at the point where D&D started to fully embrace the fanservice aspects of the show so you got these 'character interactions' which basically amount to two characters bumping into one another going 'hi'.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Solice Kirsk posted:

Why didn't Olena just like shoot Joffrey you guys?

And make sure to do it while Rains of Castamere is playing, then you can blame the Lannisters!

Collateral
Feb 17, 2010
The whole kill the ruler become the ruler, method of succession was very much not how the whole of Westeros nobility was built. Such a lazy narrative shortcut, was it contempt for the source material?

GodFish
Oct 10, 2012

We're your first, last, and only line of defense. We live in secret. We exist in shadow.

And we dress in black.
The poisoned hairnet is on Sansa because Littlefinger needed her to be complicit in the murder so she'd think she couldn't go anywhere but with him and to make her grateful to him for saving her and a bunch of other gross grooming poo poo.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





emanresu tnuocca posted:

The purple wedding was underwhelming because it was at the point where D&D started to fully embrace the fanservice aspects of the show so you got these 'character interactions' which basically amount to two characters bumping into one another going 'hi'.

Oh to be back in those naive times when we all had a modicum of faith in those two bozos and thought "oh this is going to pay off to something meaningful later on".

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos

nine-gear crow posted:

Oh to be back in those naive times when we all had a modicum of faith in those two bozos and thought "oh this is going to pay off to something meaningful later on".

So many words on the internet of people going 'can't wait for X to meet Y' and then they meet and it's "we have tons of unresolved poo poo, don't we?" "yup, we do" *poo poo never gets mentioned again*.

In the later seasons when viewers were being fed nonsense that didn't even move the plot between set pieces and people were still going 'book nerds angry that their words got changed', loving bad pussy, I tell you. loving dorne.

How come at no point did these two idiots even give enough fucks to go 'alright, clearly the fat man is not going to give us more words, maybe we can hire some competent TV writer to iron out an outline for following seasons so that poo poo generally makes sense?'. Probably an ego thing I guess.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
Reminder that in the books Tyrion has yet to meet Dany lol

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Reminder that in the books Tyrion has yet to meet Dany lol

I think in the very last book he actually does. But then the book ends.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos

Libluini posted:

I think in the very last book he actually does. But then the book ends.

He sees her flying off on Drogon's back, but they don't meet.

TK-42-1
Oct 30, 2013

looks like we have a bad transmitter



oh my god I forgot about the lord of the rings hunters quest to find dany and seeing the broach in the grass that was trampled by thousands of horses

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
Even if GRRM could live long enough to release another two books I’m convinced that that wouldn’t be enough to finish the story. Even if he rushes through everything as fast as possible Winds of Winter can only get as far as Dany sailing to Westeros. Which if you remember was the Season 6 finale.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back




Oh it would definitely get bloated to add another book or two.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003

Yeah there's zero chance he hasn't realized that for awhile and it's certainly part of what is fueling his massive writer's block/procrastination. The dread from knowing he's more realistically about half-way through this series which he has lost all interest in writing.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
It’s his own drat fault for going too far in expanding the breadth of the story in the last two half books instead of actually advancing the main plot lines toward a resolution.

Mameluke
Aug 2, 2013

by Fluffdaddy
Ehh, in the end I'm happier with half Victarion's story than I would be with none of it.

TK-42-1
Oct 30, 2013

looks like we have a bad transmitter



Truth of it is the only way he’ll finish it is to kill off a bunch of people as frivolously as the show and be hated for it. He’s the ultimate monkeys paw victim and it really kind of owns. I just hope he wakes up everyday unable to enjoy his fame and fortune knowing that he’ll never complete his masterpiece.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
What year was the American Tolkien article written?

pseudanonymous
Aug 30, 2008

When you make the second entry and the debits and credits balance, and you blow them to hell.
Someone should host a panel discussion and invite Rothfuss and Martin and then change the discussion topic to "how to best profit off series you've no intention of finishing".

Jack2142
Jul 17, 2014

Shitposting in Seattle

Libluini posted:

I think in the very last book he actually does. But then the book ends.

Nah she fucks off on the Dragon while he is enslaved.

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

It’s his own drat fault for going too far in expanding the breadth of the story in the last two half books instead of actually advancing the main plot lines toward a resolution.

Yeah, if he dumped the Quentyn failquest, Iron islands succession story, Tyrion and the fake heir and just got Dany moving back across the ocean and concentrated on Westeros and the White Walkers, i.e. the stuff people actually cared about, he'd have probably (well possibly, it's still GRRM we're talking about here) have finished by now.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep
Me I feel he started throw in new plots at every direction because he didn't knew how to advance the main plots anymore, he got lost. That's what I felt reading the last 2 books

The TV show writers had no idea either, so they solved it just moving every piece to where they were supposed to get to wrap the thing up, which was bad and frustrating, but they had to finish it and they did

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.
I can definitely believe GRRM told them how it ended and the fate of each character, with a "but I have no loving idea how to get there" disclaimer because it really shows for the last few seasons.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
It’s funny how some people try and reassure themselves that GRRM has notes that can be used by others to complete the story if he dies. First of all there are no notes. Secondly you know what’s the closest thing to notes that exists? The show that we all hate.

pseudanonymous
Aug 30, 2008

When you make the second entry and the debits and credits balance, and you blow them to hell.

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

It’s funny how some people try and reassure themselves that GRRM has notes that can be used by others to complete the story if he dies. First of all there are no notes. Secondly you know what’s the closest thing to notes that exists? The show that we all hate.

Sanderson did such a bang-up job with the Wheel of Time, and the way he blamed every problem in his works on a dead man shows he's a real class act who can take the criticism that'll be leveled at anyone who touches such a well-known IP, I'm sure he'll be equally adroit at resolving the Merenese knot and bringing ASoIaF to a satisfying conclusion.

Blade_of_tyshalle
Jul 12, 2009

If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.

Sanderson is a great hire to really flesh out the blood magic system.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back




Besides, GRRM has always said that the notes he does have are going with him when he dies. Motherfucker lowkey romanticizes the idea of kicking the bucket and his story going unfinished.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
The only notes he ever had were for the original trilogy he laid out in the mid 90s that’s freely available to see online.

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.
That's the one where Jon and Tyrion both wanna bang Arya right?

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pseudanonymous
Aug 30, 2008

When you make the second entry and the debits and credits balance, and you blow them to hell.

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

Sanderson is a great hire to really flesh out the blood magic system.

He never even finished volume 2 of "Ways and means of Blight agriculture in the modern era" it hardly seems like he's qualified to do the kind of exhaustive worldbuilding that is required to support 700 feet of ice.

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