|
I think it's a pretty safe bet that the happy end was Tomino's idea, since he also wrote one episode of Gundam evolve just so that he could give Quess a happy ending
|
#
?
May 11, 2020 17:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 00:55 |
|
|
tsob posted:It's also worth noting that Tomino doesn't seem to give a single gently caress about canon. This is the guy who did Turn A Gundam, which is both great (my favorite Gundam) and impossible to fit into any kind of canon in a sane and reasonable sense other than thematically.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2020 18:02
|
|
|
Hey, so have y'all ever looked at Seed and Phantom Pain, saw the Extended, and thought to yourself, "Man, I could do better. I can make a far more war-crimey human of mass destruction?" I'm not sure what Zero system unit I should give her. Epyon maybe?
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2020 22:34
|
|
|
Warmachine posted:Hey, so have y'all ever looked at Seed and Phantom Pain, saw the Extended, and thought to yourself, "Man, I could do better. I can make a far more war-crimey human of mass destruction?" Can you not make her a cyber-newtype as well?
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2020 22:42
|
|
|
Can you use the Berserker system from G in something besides the Nobel Gundam?
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2020 22:48
|
|
|
Warmachine posted:Hey, so have y'all ever looked at Seed and Phantom Pain, saw the Extended, and thought to yourself, "Man, I could do better. I can make a far more war-crimey human of mass destruction?" Alaya Vijnana level 2? Those are rookie numbers. You need to get those numbers up. You want the Graze Ein level one.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2020 22:49
|
|
|
I love the idea that you would give someone the very high risk surgery of putting nanomachines in their spine multiple times and then not put them in a suit that can take advantage of that.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2020 22:57
|
|
|
Droyer posted:Can you not make her a cyber-newtype as well? I can, but I figured Extended + False Innovator amount to the same thing. tsob posted:Can you use the Berserker system from G in something besides the Nobel Gundam? Nope, it's an attack. chiasaur11 posted:Alaya Vijnana level 2? I'm going to roll a few of the dispatches after I finish this mission to try and pull a level 3. While I could.... wait... Hmmmmmm... yes, the Bio-Unit, of course! Sadly, it didn't drop in the one I just played. On the other hand, we got to see... Mini-Ein?  Ethiser posted:I love the idea that you would give someone the very high risk surgery of putting nanomachines in their spine multiple times and then not put them in a suit that can take advantage of that. Don't worry. I've got that covered! Wouldn't want to leave the rest of the nervous system out, would we? 
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 00:07
|
|
|
Warmachine posted:Hey, so have y'all ever looked at Seed and Phantom Pain, saw the Extended, and thought to yourself, "Man, I could do better. I can make a far more war-crimey human of mass destruction?" If you can get it maybe give her Failed Super Coordinator too?
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 00:20
|
|
|
Warmachine posted:
Sadly, the bio-unit is only unlocked on the Hell difficulty version of that mission, which you need to beat the final mission to unlock. Ultimate war crimes have to wait for the postgame.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 00:28
|
|
|
iron blooded orphans is pretty cool but ill be honest its freaky that they have a 9 year old child bride thing glad its not talked about too much
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 15:31
|
|
|
It kinda helps that this particular Char was emotionally a child as well
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 15:59
|
|
|
Ramadu posted:iron blooded orphans is pretty cool but ill be honest its freaky that they have a 9 year old child bride thing It's meant to be creepy, so it's not like it's being done for laughs. McGillis' background and outlook are pretty dark.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 16:21
|
|
|
Lemon-Lime posted:It's meant to be creepy, so it's not like it's being done for laughs. McGillis' background and outlook are pretty dark. Was gonna say I think it gets played as very weird and sketchy in the show even with some of the weird aristocratic attitudes that Gjallahorn has. No one thinks its a good idea, I don't even think McGillis thinks its right, he just knows it's his path to power.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 16:35
|
|
|
The Notorious ZSB posted:Was gonna say I think it gets played as very weird and sketchy in the show even with some of the weird aristocratic attitudes that Gjallahorn has. No one thinks its a good idea, I don't even think McGillis thinks its right, he just knows it's his path to power. Well, that and, as mentioned above, he identifies with her due to being severely developmentally stunted by nightmarish child abuse. I think it's definitely a point the show makes that a conventional romantic relationship is as much a privilege as anything else in their appalling, hosed-up society, and everyone else has to make do with what happiness they can find. It's no coincidence that the two characters who get the closest thing to a stereotypical fairy-tale anime romance at the end are two secondary antagonists who've basically been set up to run the solar system together.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 16:47
|
|
|
A lot of IBO's deal is that the protagonists don't have any real awareness (because of where they come from, literally and metaphorically) of the fact that they're stuck in a cycle of violence and suffering, but they still recognise that they're suffering and take actions to try to stop it that ultimately result in the cycle perpetuating itself. It's a significant part of both Tekkadan and McGillis' arcs.
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 17:21 on May 13, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 17:15
|
|
|
Yeah, the thing I got from IBO is that they went out of their way to present a society where what we consider to be social norms are completely upended. Slavery is back in a big way, child soldiers are an accepted and expected practice, there is no form of exploitation too heinous for the post calamity society. Forming and joining a harem is the preferable alternative for a lot of women, the aristocracy is populated bottom to top by social darwinists, kiddy diddlers, and inbred sycophants. Their idea of strike breaking is to give the strikers defective military hardware to create casus belli, then go wholesale holocaust on the colony. Pretty sure actual Pinkertons didn't go as far as Gjallarhorn does. Child brides is par for the course.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 18:55
|
|
|
I just gotta around to the latest ReRise and I have to agree with the people a few pages ago that it was a pretty good episode. Like I can't believe I'm honestly kind of bummed that the ostensible followup to friggin' Build Divers 1 is on hiatus.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 23:02
|
|
|
All this is getting me to finish Turn A so I can go back and finish IBO. I really like Turn A so far but I really hate watching stuff on my computer so I stalled out right after the grandson of Dianna's Earth love dies. From what I watched of IBO, Kudelia struck me as an audience POV character, sometimes taking that role more than most Gundam princesses. Like IBO, to me and to what I watched, presents a lot of brutality if it's world as an everyday mundane thing. Not that it says it's good, just that most of the characters in the show are very used to it so it takes something like Biscuit's death to really hit emotionally hard for everyone.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 04:32
|
|
|
Tulalip Tulips posted:All this is getting me to finish Turn A so I can go back and finish IBO. I really like Turn A so far but I really hate watching stuff on my computer so I stalled out right after the grandson of Dianna's Earth love dies. From what I watched of IBO, Kudelia struck me as an audience POV character, sometimes taking that role more than most Gundam princesses. Like IBO, to me and to what I watched, presents a lot of brutality if it's world as an everyday mundane thing. Not that it says it's good, just that most of the characters in the show are very used to it so it takes something like Biscuit's death to really hit emotionally hard for everyone. It's also Merribit and a character in season 2's job, as things progress. One kind of interesting thing about IBO is that there's a social stratum that's more-or-less like what the viewer expects of life, unlike the aristocratic norms in Gjallarhorn or Tekkadan's brutal poverty, but we don't see much of it. They mainly exist so that you can get reminders that the worldview you're immersed in with Tekkadan is kinda hosed.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 05:05
|
|
|
Oh hey weren't you guys just complaining that they haven't introduced any new ace Zakus in a while? Well here you go, left handed Zaku
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 13:56
|
|
|
Rie Fu has been releasing re-recorded versions of her older songs, and this week it's Seed Destiny's second ending 'I Wanna Go To A Place'. There's also a version of 'Life Is Like A Boat' for any Bleach heads. https://music.apple.com/gb/album/i-wanna-go-to-a-place-classics-tokyo-sessions/1503518177?i=1503518190 https://open.spotify.com/album/1ArR16dmmJtrzPybIJ7wPx?si=MVELTPjJSraue1-pCdCEQg
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 18:32
|
|
|
Rightstuf has the Build Fighters OVAs and Battlogue disc up for preorder.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 02:49
|
|
|
In UC Gundam if a mobile suit reactor is hit and explodes, does it scatter radiation and fallout like a nuclear bomb would? Victory Gundam suggests this is the case, but I can't remember if it's ever spelled out more clearly.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 05:59
|
|
|
Maarak posted:In UC Gundam if a mobile suit reactor is hit and explodes, does it scatter radiation and fallout like a nuclear bomb would? Victory Gundam suggests this is the case, but I can't remember if it's ever spelled out more clearly. The reactors in UC suits are supposed to be muon-catalyzed cold fusion units, so there shouldn’t be a bunch of radioactive products sprayed around though I expect you’d still get a lot of thermal energy released. Victory and Unicorn are the only two times in the UC I can remember anyone getting uptight over destroyed suits causing an explosion; they slay them while giving zero fucks the rest of the time.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 06:08
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:Oh hey weren't you guys just complaining that they haven't introduced any new ace Zakus in a while? Well here you go, left handed Zaku Nature's Zaku! Honestly, I don't see much exciting about it. Apparently there's soccer involved in the manga somehow? If it's a sports Zaku, I might find room in my cold, dead heart for it, but otherwise, we've got plenty enough One Year War Zeon aces around already. (Still digging through the threads pre-IBO, and it's still interesting to see things like discussion of non-Gundam pilots contributing, oldtype aces, and the best pilots in every series as compared to the pilots who won thanks to having overpowered mechs. I know I've talked about it before, but it's interesting how un-Gundam IBO's allowed to be in the context of those threads complaining about everything reverting to UC clones.) As for reactor explosions, the bit I remember other than Amuro's dad is the end of 08th, where the jackass base commander is sending MS teams to die so one will accidentally go off as a bomb, letting him nuke the enemy base while technically keeping to the terms of the Antarctic Treaty. It's a good bit of someone being a scumbag, but in a way that makes sense for his goals.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 06:23
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:Nature's Zaku! Which is ridiculously convoluted, he could have just nuked them anyways and just claimed it was from an MS generator going off, not like anyone of importance in the Federation would have actually given enough of a poo poo to try and prove otherwise Indeed I'm actually kinda surprised that no federation scumbag hasn't tried that exact plot as a false flag operation* *not counting the whole Stardust Memories plot since Zeon did the actual nuking there, even if it was with a Federation made nuke
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 07:03
|
|
|
drrockso20 posted:Which is ridiculously convoluted, he could have just nuked them anyways and just claimed it was from an MS generator going off, not like anyone of importance in the Federation would have actually given enough of a poo poo to try and prove otherwise You have to get a nuclear weapon first, and they seemed to be either in short supply or tightly controlled in the OYW days.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 07:16
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:I know I've talked about it before, but it's interesting how un-Gundam IBO's allowed to be in the context of those threads complaining about everything reverting to UC clones.) I really don't think IBO is that Un-Gundamy to be honest. It's a darker show but it's a darker show that absolutely continues the trend of relying on Gundam archetypes. It's most obvious and present with McGillis whose entire plot is basically "trying extremely hard to be Char in a setting where that doesn't work" but there's a lot there. The super-important noble character who the wounded child soldier forms a bond with (Kudelia/Mika, Heero/Relena, Setsuna/Princess Peace being the most obvious comparisons), the young boy is the only one who can pilot the powerful legendary mobile suit named Gundam, etc. It's just that in a lot of cases it uses the archetypes to inform the tragedy that happens to the characters. It isn't even that these tragedies are unheard of in Gundam but more that they usually are not so closely clustered together and usually with a bti more catharsis. Still it's worth remember that Gundam as a franchise has always had fairly dark trends to it. Even SEED with its rainbow colored mecha and pop princess mecha ends with most of the supporting cast dead and the main protagonists failing at every single goal they had that wasn't "stop the Earth from being destroyed." IBO just leans hard into those things and even then it doesn't resist the urge to give those cathartic moments (Iok being Wrenched as the most blatant example.) IBO is a very Gundam series that I think genuinely relies on some knowledge of Gundam to understand the full extent of the archetypes they are using and subverting. I will say it put more effort into subverting those tropes than usual but... Well, like, to be honest Gundam as a franchise has been "commenting on Gundam" for the past decade. 00 ends with the Exia destroying the RX-78-2 piloted by Amuro Ray, AGE tries its best with "Amuro Ray becoming old and Bitter" becoming the first gen protagonist and "It turns out that this protagonist ISN'T a Newtype in a setting that has them" for the second. Unicorn is basically a stapled-together collection of Gundam References, and so-on. IBO is better than 00 in that regards but it still can't resist having a major plot that basically amounts to "hey, what if Garma didn't die?" Also in terms of nukes there's always M'quve's attempt at Oddessa. The one where Amuro cuts the nuke's warhead off which is why he has Mercy in every SRW.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 08:08
|
|
|
Midjack posted:You have to get a nuclear weapon first, and they seemed to be either in short supply or tightly controlled in the OYW days. Could probably rig one up easily by just ripping the generator out of a MS and strapping it into a missile in place of the original warhead Or if you're even lazier just strap multiple missiles to an unmanned MS that's been rigged to self destruct and launch it in the general direction of the enemy
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 08:27
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:IBO is a very Gundam series that I think genuinely relies on some knowledge of Gundam to understand the full extent of the archetypes they are using and subverting. Yeah, a lot of IBO is looking at UC Gundam tropes and going "OK, but what if these were treated 'realistically'?" e.g. "Teenagers suspiciously good at piloting giant war robots" becomes "child soldiers are common because they can be fitted with cheap cybernetics that have a 50/50 chance of either killing them or making them better at piloting giant war robots." Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 09:24 on May 15, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 09:08
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Also in terms of nukes there's always M'quve's attempt at Oddessa. The one where Amuro cuts the nuke's warhead off which is why he has Mercy in every SRW. I'd actually say that probably owes more to Zeta. In one of his few fights there, Amuro manages to drop a Hi-Zack without killing the pilot. Kamille's attempts to imitate his feat... didn't go so well.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 09:09
|
|
|
There's also the Then the actual nuke goes off. 
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 09:16
|
|
|
Also, the Unicorn situation they were specifically worried about the reactor going critical inside of a colony, which caused severe damage to the outer structure (in addition to incinerating anyone nearby). I haven't seen Victory so I can't comment on that, but in pretty much any situation I can remember the concern about a Minovsky reactor going up wasn't radiation, but the immediate effect of the explosion. I think Turn A's example was the closest you can get to being explicit about this. There's an actual fission bomb, and then there is the MS reactor, the latter of which is bad sure, but not "fission bomb salts the earth" bad.  Also any sufficiently large explosion in atmosphere will create a mushroom cloud.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 13:30
|
|
|
Part of the fiction of the Minovsky reactor is that it’s clean energy. IIRC the particles were an unintended side effect of getting rid of gamma rays, but a welcome one seeing as they’re non-toxic & create useful magnetic fields.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 14:13
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:I'd actually say that probably owes more to Zeta. In one of his few fights there, Amuro manages to drop a Hi-Zack without killing the pilot. This is one of the things that should happen more imo. When one pilot can do it then it's special and cool. When every pilot does it the implication moves towards one of war being bad because we're not skilled enough at it.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 19:51
|
|
|
jackhunter64 posted:There's also the The nuclear explosion in Turn A is probably one of the best examples of a "superweapon" being used I can think of, because there's about a minute or two before the explosion where everyone is just trying to run away from the epicenter of where it's going to be, as Loran, Horace and a few others are chastising everyone to stop being stupid and just get the gently caress away fom there, then it goes off and turns night in to day as everyone just looks on in horror at the sheer wrongess of seeing a bright sky in the middle of the night. It does a great job of emphasizing the power and terror of the nuclear explosion. EthanSteele posted:This is one of the things that should happen more imo. When one pilot can do it then it's special and cool. When every pilot does it the implication moves towards one of war being bad because we're not skilled enough at it. Tomino did tend to do it once with several of his protagonists. Loran, Bellri and I think Uso each have a moment where they shoot to miss someone and it connects and ends up killing them. Hathaway does too, in the novels, and he ends up killing Quess when he only meant to shoot close by and scare her; to make her realize how bad fighting and war can be. Additionally, you have something similar in F91, where Seabook uses the VSBRs for the first time to shoot one enemy mobile suit and it over-penetrates and takes out a second mobile suit he didn't intend to target; shocking him at it's power and unexpected (and undesired) lethality. It's not something I think any other show has done, but Tomino tended to utilize that trope in some form or another to emphasize how choatic and difficult fighting can be, even when (or maybe especially when) you're trying not to hurt those around you.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 22:31
|
|
|
I am not a scientist. Strictly speaking fission reactors can't "go" nuclear the way an actual nuke ought to, mainly because a reactor wants to sustain a controllable reaction for power, whereas a bomb wants a runaway reaction that consumes most of the fuel before the energy of the explosion disperses it. Even making allowances to have it be a ultra-compact reactor that can be placed on a mobile suit, I imagine it'd effectively be a biggish dirty bomb than a small nuke. But AFAIK only SEED explicitly uses fission reactors. Minovsky fusion reactors are unclear because fusion is way out of my amateur knowledge. But I imagine it'd be a large-ish explosion anyway, though not necessarily as effective or controlled as a weapon would be. In UC at least reactor explosions are more intended to showcase collateral damage than anything. I've also seen the argument that the O'neill cylinder ought to be durable enough to shrug off a reactor explosion nevermind most weapons, but UC really likes "don't loving fight in peoples' homes" as a repeated message. 08th's justification for the reactor explosion is the strangest thing to me because you'd think that if a reactor explosion was that powerful they could jury-rig a mobile suit reactor into a bomb and handwave it.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2020 20:48
|
|
|
Argas posted:I am not a scientist. Scott Manley has a decent series on nuclear weapons if you're interested in further material on the subject. The only explanation I have for 08th is to make sure their alibi is legitimate when they go to Space Hague. I'm pretty sure the Federation still cared about appearances at that point. There was still 4 years before Operation Stardust after all.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2020 21:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 00:55 |
|
|
Didn't minovsky particles also gently caress up EM communication in various forms? Or was that just if you deliberately goosed your reactor to do it? I was never sure if that was a retcon or if it was in there from the beginning, but it does a fair bit to let the UC still work as science marches on, even if as a retro-future: "you can't have ubiquitious mobile wireless networking or whatever because it's incompatible with the dirt-cheap totally clean energy."
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2020 22:27
|
|
