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Yeah I don't think we need a bury your gays story ever again!!!!! It's banned!!!!!!!!!! Also it owns bones the abuse victim overcame their struggles and got a happy ending!!!!!!!! It's an uplifting ending for kids in like three ways!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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May 18, 2020 23:24
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 08:14 |
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AlternateNu posted:Korra did it better. There is literally no situation in which this statement is or will be true pentyne posted:Except maybe Entrapa and Hordak, but only because they don't share appreciable screen time until season 3. They share a love of tech and the scientific method, which is the purest love of all raditts fucked around with this message at 23:49 on May 18, 2020 |
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May 18, 2020 23:37
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Korra barely counts, they got censored by the network and had to make the gayness explicit in a blog post, not their fault but still.
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May 18, 2020 23:44
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I think it's tricky because like, Catra has literally attempted to kill Adora, kill Adora's friends, and destroy the world, some of those things multiple times each. You sort of have to read those as heightened metaphors for bad behaviour, rather than as literalism, for her redemption arc to "work" without more time than the show had to spend on it. That said I still love the Catradora dynamic. It's really sweet and romantic this season. It's just like, if you remember the details of the stuff she did in previous seasons, you kind of have to treat that as not entirely literal for it to feel fully satisfying. Imo! Like, the lesson is "abused kids who lash out and hurt the people around them can be better and deserve second chances at happiness", not so much "abused kids who attempt the destruction of the planet and also murder can be made better if their victims choose to show them kindness". You have to take Catra's transgressions as metaphors for like, bad behaviour in the social realm, not the physical and murderous violence that they literally were.
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May 18, 2020 23:49
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I LOVE ripping into the dozens of lovely half assed redemption storylines because everyone wants to be the next Zuko without knowing why that worked but I'm going to give Catra a pass because she is, and I'm directly quoting the creator here, hot.
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May 18, 2020 23:52
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Hey can someone make an avatar-sized gif of Catra sitting on Adora's lap, annoying Adora with her tail? preferably in a perfect loop because I'm reasonably sure that can be a perfectly looping gif.
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May 19, 2020 00:00
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Android Blues posted:I think it's tricky because like, Catra has literally attempted to kill Adora, kill Adora's friends, and destroy the world, some of those things multiple times each. You sort of have to read those as heightened metaphors for bad behaviour, rather than as literalism, for her redemption arc to "work" without more time than the show had to spend on it. Given that this is a kids' cartoon wherein the command structure of both sides' armies are a handful of teenagers, a couple of adults, and some robots, I feel like "don't read this literally" is kind of a given as the focus is clearly not meant to be on the horrors and logistics of war, and you're not really intended to think about how they're ostensibly trying to kill each other dead when they're having one-on-one fights any more than you're supposed to consider the human cost in like, Advance Wars games when the commanders are talking to each other about the power of friendship to conquer evil as thousands of nameless soldiers are being blown apart under their command.
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May 19, 2020 00:23
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Android Blues posted:I think it's tricky because like, Catra has literally attempted to kill Adora, kill Adora's friends, and destroy the world, some of those things multiple times each. You sort of have to read those as heightened metaphors for bad behaviour, rather than as literalism, for her redemption arc to "work" without more time than the show had to spend on it. it's also a cartoon. no one gets a chance to destroy the entire universe irl. I'm really, really, really tired of the idea that characters who were abused and then acted out based on that abuse has no choice but to die for "good" people who were born well and never made mistakes because the only way to be a good person is to be born into perfect circumstances and only neurotypical people with rich families can be good people. And I'm honestly looking at posters who think Catra dying would be a better message really funny for coming into a children's show thread and suggesting that. Adora wasn't waiting for her abuser to get better or whatever, Catra already had gotten better, was already trying to get better, and had already acknowledged she had been wrong, and had already been through loving hell. Both Adora and Catra were dealt a bad hand by their horde adoption, and both are hosed up from it. The entire story has been about their relationship and how hosed up it is they could not be there for each other. Let them have their happy ending. Maybe the part where Catra wants to get better and starts getting better was too fast, whatever. It's kind of silly the horde's holding hands with the rebellion now and singing koombaya. But we already had the kind of alternate ending like this in Voltron and everyone either thought it was...ok... or loving hated it
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May 19, 2020 00:26
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Hemingway To Go! posted:it's also a cartoon. no one gets a chance to destroy the entire universe irl. I mean, they do, but it's usually businessmen and not traumatized catgirls
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May 19, 2020 00:31
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Beekeeping and You posted:I mean, they do, but it's usually businessmen and not traumatized catgirls I guess I do kind of read Horde as being less like an army and more like Amazon or Tesla for some reason.
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May 19, 2020 00:32
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Beekeeping and You posted:I mean, they do, but it's usually businessmen and not traumatized catgirls It's a girlgang turf war that just fuckin' escalates.
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May 19, 2020 00:40
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Beekeeping and You posted:I mean, they do, but it's usually businessmen and not traumatized catgirls Yeah, pretty much. There are people who do things that are That Bad, particularly the attempted murder stuff, and this wouldn't be a satisfying treatment if you read Catra's transgressions as literal depictions of violence with intent to kill. If you read them as a big metaphor about broken families and warring friendship groups though, it works fine. I think it helps to be aware of this stuff, because like, "my friend used to lash out and push me away, she could be really cruel, but she realised she had a problem, got better, and now we're dating" is a good message for kids, while "my girlfriend tried to murder me but she said sorry and now we're back together and things are good" really isn't. What people take from this treatment is really going to depend on how much of the core conflict of the first few seasons they're willing to read as a metaphor for social conflict vs. the violence depicted on screen being literal. I think it works perfectly well if you do the former, but maybe you have to squint a bit.
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May 19, 2020 00:41
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And yeah, with the Horde being as goofy and non-threatening as they are before the arrival of Horde Prime, it's easy enough to dismiss the whole Horde-Princess Alliance war as kids' stuff. But there's also not a huge amount of signposting that the reader needs to do that, so it's going to be up to individual readers to interpret it as they watch.
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May 19, 2020 00:44
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Sheesh it's like some of you never shipped a hero with a villain before  More serious note - there's been objectively worse heterosexual couples in children's media before with not a single raised eyebrow but for some reason when it's a gay couple suddenly they have to be paragons of virtue.
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May 19, 2020 00:45
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Pyrotoad posted:Sheesh it's like some of you never shipped a hero with a villain before Is that true, though? I feel like there's always a pretty vocal contingent of people who are sceptical about villain shipping. Like, many people absolutely hated shipping Rey with Kylo Ren for pretty much the same reasons.
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May 19, 2020 00:51
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Senerio posted:Hey can someone make an avatar-sized gif of Catra sitting on Adora's lap, annoying Adora with her tail? preferably in a perfect loop because I'm reasonably sure that can be a perfectly looping gif. I have specifically been teaching myself how to make gifs trying to do exactly this, but wow am I computer illiterate in a magnitude of ways.
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May 19, 2020 00:57
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Android Blues posted:Is that true, though? I feel like there's always a pretty vocal contingent of people who are sceptical about villain shipping. Like, many people absolutely hated shipping Rey with Kylo Ren for pretty much the same reasons. I wouldn't call Star Wars 'children's media', generally. Certainly children enjoy it, but it wasn't made for them. While we're talking about ATLA, I'd more closely compare this to people who shipped Zuko/Katara before his redemption, specifically going into the last season when he'd apparently thrown his redemption in the garbage. I personally hated Zutara and still do - I liked Mai and related to her a lot and I hated the way that Zutara shippers treated her. Nobody involved in that ship was interested in hearing "Zuko refused his redemption and tried to kill the Gaang." It was all "No it's fine, they'll still get together in the end." At any rate, I think it's worth saying there can be a happy middle ground here - I agree that I don't think Catra earned her redemption, yet. I think she could in the future, but we're not going to get to see it. By the same token, I don't think Hordak got any form of redemption. Mermista made a crack about 'are we all just okay with this?' but if you imagine the story continuing, there probably would have to be a very real conversation about 'okay, what do we do about this because sorry doesn't really cover it'. But that's not the scope of the show and I don't need it to be. I don't really like Catradora as they are now but I also recognize that outside the confines of the story, it was incredibly important for them to end up together for representation reasons. Every single other villain and former villain of the series except for Prime got their equivalent of a happy ending. Even Shadow Weaver got to go out on her own terms, tormenting Catra one last time. It'd be pretty lovely for Catra not to get hers.
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May 19, 2020 01:15
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CuwiKhons posted:I wouldn't call Star Wars 'children's media', generally. Certainly children enjoy it, but it wasn't made for them. While we're talking about ATLA, I'd more closely compare this to people who shipped Zuko/Katara before his redemption, specifically going into the last season when he'd apparently thrown his redemption in the garbage. I personally hated Zutara and still do - I liked Mai and related to her a lot and I hated the way that Zutara shippers treated her. Nobody involved in that ship was interested in hearing "Zuko refused his redemption and tried to kill the Gaang." It was all "No it's fine, they'll still get together in the end." Yeah, I pretty much agree. Well said!
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May 19, 2020 01:22
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I assume when Adora mind broke Hordak that also affected the zillion other Hordak clones that were standing right there, because otherwise uhhh fights not over
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May 19, 2020 01:34
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If Wrong Hordak is any indication, once the legion of Horde clones realize their leader is not infallible they will have a crisis of conscience and come out the other side much more amenable to society in general. One thing I found kind of disappointing in the season, due in no part to the show itself, was that there was a summary of one of the final episodes on the Netflix listing that said something like "Wrong Hordak formats dissent in the Horde ranks", suggesting he was going to start an insurrection or would be trying to convince the ranks of clones of the falliablity of their leader and that action against him was warranted, which I thought was a cool idea. Wrong Hordak was fun, but he was mostly just there as a distraction rather than feeding in to scenes in any meaningful way.
tsob fucked around with this message at 01:41 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 01:39
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Hordak had a pre-existing personality and identity to fall back on. All the other clones didn't and with the connection to Prime fully severed, they probably all had a meltdown the way Wrong Hordak first did. Not much of a fight.
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May 19, 2020 01:39
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Senerio posted:Hey can someone make an avatar-sized gif of Catra sitting on Adora's lap, annoying Adora with her tail? preferably in a perfect loop because I'm reasonably sure that can be a perfectly looping gif.  Source:  galenanorth fucked around with this message at 01:44 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 01:42
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show good, I didn't think Catra would be able to pull off a redemption arc but tbh it felt right
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May 19, 2020 01:50
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Doctor Reynolds posted:I assume when Adora mind broke Hordak that also affected the zillion other Hordak clones that were standing right there, because otherwise uhhh fights not over All of the clones are obviously going with Entrapta, regular Hordak, Wrong Hordak, Emily, and Darla back to Dryl, where Entrapta will give them all great names and teach them to cook small foods. Wrong Hordak continues to answer to Wrong Hordak.
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May 19, 2020 01:58
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Can I just say Hordak's voice actor is incredible for doing so many variations on the same base voice?
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May 19, 2020 02:05
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galenanorth posted:
Oh, it's beautiful...
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May 19, 2020 02:09
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galenanorth posted:
they really go all in with her mannerisms
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May 19, 2020 02:15
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Chokes McGee posted:they really go all in with her mannerisms Not just her mannerisms but her personality. Her tendency to lash out at the nearest target when in pain is very feline.
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May 19, 2020 02:20
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I think the most fun bit is that while Adora's clearly irritated, she goes out of her way to keep her supported when Catra flops down in her lap. That one little scene went a long way to showing their relationship.
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May 19, 2020 02:22
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SirSamVimes posted:Not just her mannerisms but her personality. Her tendency to lash out at the nearest target when in pain is very feline. I had to pause when Nettossa squirted her as part of her Doom protocols because I was laughing too hard
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May 19, 2020 02:50
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galenanorth posted:
Thank you very much! For some reason it said it was too big despite not being too big but I cut off the last few frames in Photoshop and it fit.
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May 19, 2020 03:16
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Catra with a pixie haircut is a big improvement
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May 19, 2020 03:38
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Also I love how just to emphasize that the headpiece of the new She-Ra is inspired by Catra, you see a flash of Catra's helmet as it gets put on.
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May 19, 2020 04:01
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wow, i just finished watching the final season and what a fun ride!!  i really feel that catra's redemption felt earned, in that there was moreso baby steps and a slow and steady change after helping glimmer out of selflessness instead of suddenly turning, especially since she always seemed pretty miserable in previous seasons! catra overcoming her past of both abuse and being abused bit by bit is very nice to watch, and it was great to see her support adora by the end! it is significantly more interesting (and incredible) as a message instead of the bad idea that "she was toxic and evil in the past, so she Must die + bury your gays" cliche. i also feel like that selflessness and change ended up rubbing off on shadoweaver by the finale. also, there was pretty strong themes of the power of love and friendship in previous seasons, so it would track that the finale would end up in a similar way, especially with magic! basically what Darth Walrus has said!! 
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May 19, 2020 09:59
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Good show, good ending. Hordak, Wrong Hordak and the the rest of the fright zone can go about helping to rebuild eternia and bringing tech to people that have none. Spread the joy of sanitation and toilet paper.
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May 19, 2020 10:45
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I'm really glad that Wrong Hordak never did the predictable-seeming turn against the crew when he realised they were Horde Prime's enemies. He was perfect.
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May 19, 2020 12:03
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My biggest issue with Wrong Hordak is that he never got a fun nickname
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May 19, 2020 12:26
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Beekeeping and You posted:My biggest issue with Wrong Hordak is that he never got a fun nickname Say that again, but slowly.
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May 19, 2020 12:30
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Hordak is a surname now. It's gonna be a real popular surname.
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May 19, 2020 15:27
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Where were Kyle and co? I must have blinked and missed them.
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May 19, 2020 20:58
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