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Max Wilco posted:I have to wonder if Ronald D. Moore's absence was the reason why Voyager suffered so much. berman is like the focal point of several key bad decisions from that entire era of trek, including shutting down attempts to have chronological continuity in a story explicitly about travelling from point a to point b. he wanted the centrepiece dominion war in ds9 to be a two-parter because he was more concerned about syndication than storytelling.
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May 18, 2020 22:58
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nine-gear crow posted:There never was a plan. Ron Moore wanted to end the first season with Baltar walking into a pyramid on Kobol, hearing Purple Haze by Jimmy Hendrix playing on a radio, and then Dirk Benedict (Starbuck from the original series and all around right-wing rear end in a top hat as of c. 2003) emerges from a blinding white light and says "Hello, Gaius. I'm God." and then smash cut to credits. He was screamed off the ledge when the writers room threw a fit because he had NO IDEA where he was going from there. Right, which is kinda funny that, as the story goes at least, he smugly walked away from voyager throwing the bird at Rick when his own attempt at "Voyager done right" crashed and burned too, albeit due to different reasons than Voyager did.
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May 18, 2020 23:52
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A lot of his is speculative from the various Star Trek threads on SA, but it's a combination of 'wanting to hit the ratings high that was Star Trek TNG' and 'bailing out TNG after its first two seasons' (especially the first season, yikes) and 'considering himself a guiding point for Gene Roddenbury's legacy'.
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May 18, 2020 23:53
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nine-gear crow posted:There never was a plan. Ron Moore wanted to end the first season with Baltar walking into a pyramid on Kobol, hearing Purple Haze by Jimmy Hendrix playing on a radio, and then Dirk Benedict (Starbuck from the original series and all around right-wing rear end in a top hat as of c. 2003) emerges from a blinding white light and says "Hello, Gaius. I'm God." and then smash cut to credits. He was screamed off the ledge when the writers room threw a fit because he had NO IDEA where he was going from there. What I'm hearing here is that writers being fixated on surprising the audience or otherwise using "twists" is very nearly a universal negative for a story and it has destroyed every promising series of this century* *that wasn't a literal children's cartoon
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May 18, 2020 23:55
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The Battlestar Galactica boardgame is great though. Better than the show!
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May 19, 2020 00:02
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Deadlock is also a pretty fun turn based RTS. Plus it has Empire At War's cinematic camera function so you can see how the battle played out in real time once the movement turns all finished.
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May 19, 2020 00:37
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Arcsquad12 posted:Deadlock is also a pretty fun turn based RTS. Plus it has Empire At War's cinematic camera function so you can see how the battle played out in real time once the movement turns all finished. Empire at War is my all time favorite RTS! There's so much tactical freedom in which planet you want to attack and how you do it. How you can sabotage planets with Defilers or rebel spies before invading or sneak attacking with stealth units is  . And then defending your own planets and deciding what structures to build on them...Taking over the galaxy is so much fun in that game. Why can't more scifi RTSs be like that?
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May 19, 2020 00:51
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Anyway........star wars
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May 19, 2020 00:53
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The "Ancillary" series by Ann Leckie is my favourite bit of sci-fi.
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May 19, 2020 01:02
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Jamie Faith posted:Empire at War is my all time favorite RTS! There's so much tactical freedom in which planet you want to attack and how you do it. How you can sabotage planets with Defilers or rebel spies before invading or sneak attacking with stealth units is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8g0qB68fUQ Yeah, and Deadlock has the exact same camera. It's a much slower game since it's turn based but the camera shots when it all comes together are pretty drat good. I'm still wondering what VFX studio came up with the snap-zoom first, ILM for Attack of the Clones or Zoic Studios. Both Firefly and Attack of the Clones featured the snap-zoom camera technique to hyperfocus on a specific moment in a big CGI shot and I don't know which one of them actually came up with it, since they both had their VFX work done around the same time. I wouldn't doubt there was some crossover between the studios that led to its proliferation. Zoic later did BSG so it's no surprise they took the shot with them. (I know that the shot technique probably originates with Tarantino's style, but the specific use in big CGI shots seems to have originated with the 2002 crop of films and shows) Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 01:19 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 01:15
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oh i thought you were talking about the fun turn-based strategy game deadlock: planetary conquest.
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May 19, 2020 01:26
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Ghostlight posted:to quote rlm "what is it with ricks?" This is kind of ancillary to your point, but I wonder what kind of behind-the-scenes stories are going to come out once the dust from Discovery, Picard and friends settles down and how much (if any) role Kurtzman had in them going off the rails. He seems to be taking most of the blame for all the new series missteps. MechanicalTomPetty fucked around with this message at 01:54 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 01:47
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Speaking of Star Trek, hoo boy, here we go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwF1iri1GjQ
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May 19, 2020 02:24
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:Speaking of Star Trek, hoo boy, here we go: No, you go ahead, I'm good.
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May 19, 2020 02:30
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Jamie Faith posted:Anyway........star wars How many star wars derails would that be in the past month? 5?
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May 19, 2020 02:33
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Absurd Alhazred posted:No, you go ahead, I'm good. I don’t like Star Trek so unlike the last plinkett I have no emotional stake and can just enjoy mikes dumb jokes.
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May 19, 2020 02:47
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The thought of an hour and a half Plinkett review just makes me feel vaguely tired now.
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May 19, 2020 02:51
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I'm seeing why Jay looks into the camera whenever Mike starts talking about Star Trek.
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May 19, 2020 02:53
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CmdrKing posted:What I'm hearing here is that writers being fixated on surprising the audience or otherwise using "twists" is very nearly a universal negative for a story and it has destroyed every promising series of this century* I think a lot of this is a function of tv and movie writers still, even all these years later, not really "getting" the internet. 8-10 people working on a deadline are not going to be able to craft a mystery that 5,000+ people working with a lot of free time aren't going to unravel. Even if the mystery is unfair and comes out of left field. The desire to think of a plot that "no one will see coming" just isn't possible. The Internet is going to think of your twist ending. If you play fair with your mystery, some people are going to put the ending together and talk about it. They're going to make Youtube videos about it. And, importantly, this isn't a bad thing -- it drums up interest and support: it's not like someone is going to see "Ten Reasons Why Snape is Rey's Father" and then not go see the 7th Harry Star Wars movie. I really enjoyed hbomberguy's video on Sherlock and why it's bad: the whole appeal of the Conan Doyle Sherlock stories is that they're self-contained, they teach you things, and they involve mysteries that you, the reader, can possibly put together and enjoy having your guess confirmed at the end of the story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkoGBOs5ecM
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May 19, 2020 03:09
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While I do really like hbombs Sherlock video, I do disagree with a few of his conclusions. I think a lot of the audience absolutely want Sherlock to be some kind of genius ubermench that can figure out some bloke got his head done in by a bomeerang in an empty field or whatever. He's a form of power fantasty wish fullfilment and people absolutely love those. Throw in some social incompetence bordering on aspergers and a relatively good looking character and some angst and boom, you got yourself a protagonist. Him being super smart in a way you, the viewer, can't follow is ok because that's part of the appeal, but it kind of hinges on the overarching plot to make some sense, which is obviously where it's fallen a bit flat, because moffat is a hack.
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May 19, 2020 03:46
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:Speaking of Star Trek, hoo boy, here we go: email me if you want a pizza roll. leave a comment on this webzone and ill send you a pizza roll It feels like it's been a lifetime since I've watched the Plinkett Reviews on the TNG movies and the prequels. I'm interested in watching this, but with the majority of the Plinkett Reviews, they were on films that I had seen multiple times before. I haven't watched Picard, so I wonder if the video assumes you've already seen it.
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May 19, 2020 03:46
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McCloud posted:How many star wars derails would that be in the past month? 5? I can count, on one hand, how many times we've even discussed internet personalities in this internet personality thread in the last 10 pages. This whole thread is nothing but derails. And for the record, I actually don't think that's a bad thing. I actually like how in this thread you have the freedom to go off topic discussing anything from Call of Duty to One Piece. It's why this is my favorite thread on SA. Just talking about one topic gets stale after a while. I only went off on that Star Wars tangent because I'm a chad star wars fan instead of a virgin star trek fan so I have no idea what everyone has been talking about for the last 5 pages. lmao
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May 19, 2020 03:47
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Toph Bei Fong posted:I really enjoyed hbomberguy's video on Sherlock and why it's bad: the whole appeal of the Conan Doyle Sherlock stories is that they're self-contained, they teach you things, and they involve mysteries that you, the reader, can possibly put together and enjoy having your guess confirmed at the end of the story. Mooooost of the original Sherlock stories aren't playing fair or solvable with the clues that are handed to the reader as the story goes along, and the entertainment comes in watching Sherlock break down his convoluted logic that makes sense only if you don't know things like how snakes won't respond to whistles or be lured through grates with milk. And you know what? That works fine for a long series of self-contained short stories and a handful of novellas. Sherlock's big failing is trying to create connective tissue out of nothing and pull the Big Characters (that people remember through cultural osmosis) into the show as fast as possible while making them a Big Deal, which they never were in the original stories. But it also doesn't help that mysteries as a genre evolved very rapidly post-Sherlock to the point where a good one was expected to involve a riddle a clever reader could solve, and hiding important facts from a reader was unfair. That's what keeps a novel-length Agatha Christie story engaging all the way through, and well Sherlock is exactly what you get out trying to force Holmes into some kind of long running, slow burn thriller he doesn't fit at all in.
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May 19, 2020 03:50
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Dawgstar posted:The thought of an hour and a half Plinkett review just makes me feel vaguely tired now. Yeah  Ever since that weird borderline racist rant in the Force Awakens review (Not saying the RLM guys are racists! Please don't take that the wrong way and start that derail again), I've just kinda soured on the Plinkette reviews. And I use to watch them religiously back in the day. Didn't even bother watching the Plinkette 8 and 9 reviews, and never will.Alltho, I am going to give the Picard vid a shot! I have heard that Picard is terrible from everyone so I'm kinda curious.
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May 19, 2020 03:54
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Mike is the only Red Letter Media guy that really annoys me. I don't really watch their reviews much largely cause when I was watching them a lot, he wouldn't stop making his one obnoxious "Jay is gay! lol" joke all the time. I'm kinda surprised they still do the Plinkett character but I guess that was what put them on the map.
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May 19, 2020 03:59
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Poirot is better
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May 19, 2020 04:02
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He does have the best theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvrj5E_elzg
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May 19, 2020 04:05
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I'm watching the Picard review now and wow! Picard looks like it's trying so hard to be Star Wars. So many ship battles and hand to hand fights and shoot outs. Wasnt Star Trek all about space diplomacy and stuff?
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May 19, 2020 04:06
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that was old Star Trek, now it’s about badass decapitations
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May 19, 2020 04:11
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ArfJason posted:Poirot is better Are you saying that in regards to Sherlock, Star Trek Picard, or RLM? Because I agree.
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May 19, 2020 04:26
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you know what they say about diplomacy. it comes from the barrel of a gun.
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May 19, 2020 04:27
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Bonaventure posted:that was old Star Trek, now it’s about badass decapitations Someone linked this video to me and while I haven't seen either of the new Star Trek series to judge if this video is just cherry-picking examples it really does seem to sum up why they don't appeal to me in general: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqn0WhG53uA
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May 19, 2020 04:34
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Them not swearing in a post-scarcity society is the least realistic thing in Star Trek. We've been cursing and swear since language became a thing.
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May 19, 2020 04:38
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sheer loving hubris
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May 19, 2020 04:39
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Swearing isn't inherently bad. I certainly swear plenty. It's how you use it! Those swears feel very... written. Written in a "ooohhh they said a naughty woooord" way. Childish. Oh! It's because of Wesley- err, Wil Wheaton. Bad writer, that man.
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May 19, 2020 04:44
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Doctor Reynolds posted:Swearing isn't inherently bad. I certainly swear plenty. It's how you use it! Those swears feel very... written. Written in a "ooohhh they said a naughty woooord" way. Childish. Oh! It's because of Wesley- err, Wil Wheaton. Bad writer, that man. Yeah, exactly. It seems like they're there because 1) it's on streaming now so they don't have to adhere to broadcast standards anymore and 2) they deliberately want to separate themselves from "old" Star Trek for some reason despite literally being a continuation of Star Trek.
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May 19, 2020 04:47
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Doctor Reynolds posted:Swearing isn't inherently bad. I certainly swear plenty. It's how you use it! Those swears feel very... written. Written in a "ooohhh they said a naughty woooord" way. Childish. Oh! It's because of Wesley- err, Wil Wheaton. Bad writer, that man. Yeah, this. They sound like a kid swearing for the first time when they're away from their parents and are trying to impress their friends or something. It's cringy and sounds forced and unnatural. Swearing needs to sound natural.
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May 19, 2020 04:49
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I vaguely recall the BSG prequel series and it was...something. Didn’t it die after one season?
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May 19, 2020 05:08
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So far they're dealing with the fake woke stuff much better in their Picard vid then in previous vids. As we all know, they can be kinda clumsy and unclear when they call out cynical corporate attempts at being woke to the point where some people think the RLM guys are chuds. In the Picard review, RLM is straight up yelling at the creators to make Picard gay ("Do it you cowards!") instead of making some minor "safe" character gay. Glad to see they're getting better at this stuff. 
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May 19, 2020 05:27
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ArfJason posted:Poirot is better  Mr.Radar posted:Someone linked this video to me and while I haven't seen either of the new Star Trek series to judge if this video is just cherry-picking examples it really does seem to sum up why they don't appeal to me in general: This feels like Star Trek as written by Joss Whedon if he didn't have to worry about conforming to FCC guidelines. Alternatively, it reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrXKFWj8gdw Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 05:39 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 05:29
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