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Maxwell Lord posted:
The worst part about atrophy induced by zero-G in XXVc? If your Strength drops below 3, you're out of action until you can get planetside. If your Constitution drops that low, every single organ fails and you have two weeks to live unless you can go get replacements transplanted ("bone marrow" counts as an organ, as far as the game rules are concerned.) I don't believe the rulebook gives you the costs of having your heart, lungs, stomach, intestines, and so on replaced.
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May 19, 2020 12:48
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Mors Rattus posted:It works way better with the Beastmen, where most are Chaos Undivided but don’t, like, try to make deals with the gods. They just look down on god-worshippers for not getting TRUE Chaos, not like WE do, with our rocks and animal heads. Though the the beasts have at least one greatfray that's undivided because it worships a lesser god of mutation. Slaves are similar in that they've got Archaeon's whole new ideology, but then the warcry warbands have one (two, maybe?) bands that worship obscure chaos entities as well. GW just can't seem to decide whether to wants Undivided to be a Thing, with it's own personality, or just the catchall category for all the weirdness that doesn't neatly fit under the big 4. So it undercuts the attempts at making it the former by keeping it the latter. I think they've made some serious improvements to it (though as was referenced, more with Abaddon and the undivided legions in 40k than with AoS), but it's still kind of muddled.
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May 19, 2020 13:06
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GimpInBlack posted:That's certainly true, but it's also true of pretty much any game that aims to emulate a genre or setting people might not be super familiar with. Both NBA and Solo Ops have chapters on spy tradecraft, for instance, and the Leverage RPG has a whole section of grifts and con jobs. Even when it's wholly fictional, this kind of thing is really useful--Star Trek Adventures dedicates a few pages to how to come up with appropriately Star Trek-themed technobabble. Certainly, but I think FitD-style games are extra reliant upon it, because they're so focused on "playing the fiction" that you need to know exactly what the fiction is. And while the overall cycle is very structured and detailed, the moment-to-moment stuff is more loosely handled.
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May 19, 2020 13:12
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LatwPIAT posted:Certainly, but I think FitD-style games are extra reliant upon it, because they're so focused on "playing the fiction" that you need to know exactly what the fiction is. And while the overall cycle is very structured and detailed, the moment-to-moment stuff is more loosely handled. I think the cultural familiarity of "scoundrels in an 19th century industrial magipunk world with demons and ghosts" is far, far less common than that of secret agents and/or vampires, yet Blades has been tremendously successful. I get what you're saying about "People may not know much about spies other than James Bond or Mission Impossible" but a) those IPs (ugh) are extremely well ingrained, even amongst people who have never seen one of the movies and b) that's what the rule book is for. It's kind of like saying "People only know about Star Wars and Star Trek, so science fiction games are hard". e: This is more suitable for the General or Philosophy threads, but I think a lot of what Blades' (building on what Apocalypse World started) fiction first gaming and position/effect mechanics are doing is just codifying what other roleplaying games are doing anyway - either consciously or not. It's really not as big a leap as some people think. tanglewood1420 fucked around with this message at 13:39 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 13:33
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Warhammer 40k Roleplay: Only War Set Systems From Perch To Roost! LET ALL HEAR OUR WARK! I was going to do the cooks, and I do really like their idea, but for purposes of actual review I just noticed this edit and realized it would let me show off a very important Regimental Creation add-on: Making Rough Rider Regiments and their mounts. So I am going to do the birbs instead because they're funny and let me show off more of the system. Josef bugman posted:Also if we get to propose cool regimental ideas. I'd like to go with a temple world that worships the emperor in His form as a very large bird. Aviliary, with a tradition of terror bird mounted shock troops accompanied by very loudly decorated troopers, whose chief occupation is rocketry. The 67th Akkatan Avians are a very bizarre regiment. They come from the Shrine World of Akkatan, where a long-ago bout of iconoclast beliefs led to all images of the Emperor being destroyed for being unable to truly mirror His Imperial Majesty. After an invasion set the world back to the middle ages, when people and priests began to recover the only images they could find of the Emperor were the enormous Imperial Eagle sigils the Imperium put everywhere. Thus, they came to believe that the Emperor is best represented by giant birds. While this belief is bizarre, their faith is deep, sincere, and their people have fought off no less than 3 Chaos Invasions since the coming of the birdlords, as well as defeating a significant genestealer cult and the forces of an Eldar Farseer who claimed they would someday be a 'grand annoyance to all the galaxy'. None question their valor nor their commitment to the Imperial Creed, and their martial glory has made them a true shrine world where pilgrims flock to learn how how the Emperor roosts above all. They would come from a Shrine World but Shrine Worlds are terrible. Like too terrible to use for flavor. The only good thing they get is the ability to no-sell one Corruption per session. Otherwise it's all useless stuff like 'you know superlatin but only a little'. They still effectively come from a Shrine World, but what matters more about the place is it's a Feudal World. They start with Athletics and Common Lore (war). They are hearty birb-knights! They also get +3 WS and Strength. Every one of them starts with Champion; if they're dueling an enemy one on one in melee they get +2 DoS on all Weapon Skill tests. That's both parries and attacks. Considering WS tests now rely on DoS to determine how many hits you get when multi-attacking, this can make them terrifying in a duel. They can't read by default, though. And suffer penalties with tech if they aren't trained with it, but when do you use it without being trained? Honestly Feudal Worlds are pretty bad too. Most of the new Homeworlds in Hammer of the Emperor are, but birb-knights. 3 Points. Their Commanding Officer is the notable Birdlord Kaiser Warkhelm, known for his tremendous ability to mimic the terrifying battle cry of their mounts (WARRRRRRRK!) and his burning thirst for vengeance. He is a Maverick, giving everyone Resistance (Fear) as they fight hard under his noble command because you never quite know what this wildcard will do next. 2 Points. They are clearly a Rough Rider Regiment. This gives them all an exploding lance with a variable tip, chosen per mission. The tips can be reloaded. It also gives them all Survival, since Survival is used for riding, and Catfall, so they maybe die a little less if they fall off a flying birb. They only have pistols and basic hand weapons once their lance has exploded, though. That will need to be fixed. We'll have to take it to the next level. Most importantly, they get their birbs. Riding Mounts can be tremendously useful and powerful, and mounted combat can totally rule. We will get to making their birds in a bit. It costs 5 points, which is hefty. They'll need a drawback. They possess a Cult of Chivalry. They hate lying. They just won't do it. It takes a -10 WP test for them to knowingly lie or use the Deceive skill. They are forthright, honest, and just, as befits noble paladins of His Feathered Majesty. 3 points back. They are also Heavy Lancers like the Orkaboos, but they use it to instead get a second exploder-lance. They can EXPLODER LANCE TWICE. Surely no foe can stand before that. Unstoppable Charge and the ability to charge 2xAgi Bonus of Mount meters further in a Charge Action are just too good, as is everyone getting Weapon Skill. For extra gear, they have exactly enough points to get what I want for them: They replace their normal armor with heavily reinforced Feudal Plate (AV 5, very heavy, but amusingly more protective than Guard Flak) and spend 10 more points to make it Best, giving them all AV 6 and armor that weighs as much as normal Carpace (since Best armor weighs half as much). Their armor is made of a fantastical metal found on their homeworld, designed to be light enough to ride with and decorated to look like you're being charged by a bunch of golden Imperial eagles. This effect is even more unsettling with their infantry regiments, who come warking across the field waving chainsaws. They also add a Chainsword to their basic kit. And an extra uniform, with slashed sleeves and big feathers, to be worn for holy occasions. So they have a good melee weapon (Chainswords are excellent all-rounders), incredible armor despite its ridiculousness (to the extent armor will help, this is the best you get), several anti-tank exploding lances to use on main charges before they resort to their curved chainsabers, and some pistols they'll mostly wave around to look good. Their Heavy Weapon is the Automatic Mortar. It's fluffed as a multiple launch rocket system, used to carpet the enemy in the burning pinions (mortar rounds) of the holy Emperor's squawking wrath. Their Basic Weapon is, uh...I dunno, I guess it's a Sniper Rifle, so that some of their skirmishers who aren't engaging in glorious lance charges can still punish the Emperor's enemies with His mighty eagle eye. Yeah, we'll go with that. They also put birds on the rifles. Like bird engravings. They like birds. Now we design their birds. The Grand Ibijau is a hearty native bird, known for its size and ability to take to training. In nature, they hide on the immense trees of Akkatan, pretending to be part of the landscape to lure prey into a false sense of security. The Golden Eyes of the Ibijau are said to carry the Emperor's judgement in their enormity and unsettling ability to look in multiple directions at once. They are highly intelligent (this is a lie, the Akkatans just think they are, they are actually kind of dumb, if very trainable and friendly) and surprisingly pleasant when broken for war, and display great loyalty to their riders. They're also giant loving birds with a bunch of golden armored eagle-knights with lances mounted with shaped charges or plasma tips or melta vaporizers and chainsaws on their backs, which is pretty scary, despite the fact that they would probably look a little silly without their knights. To make a cavalry mount, you take a base profile of WS 20, BS 01, S 30, T 30, Agi 30, Int 10, Per 25, WP 20, Fel 10. Then you add 60 stat points, no more than 30 in one stat. The Ibijau is swift, strong, and tough, and a reasonably good fighter. We give it +20 Str, +10 WS, +10 Tough, and +20 Agi. They're kind of dumb, but quick. They get 12 Ability Points after that. We use this to add Dodge and Stealth (they are experts at camo) for 2 points. Then Flier (8) for 1, Unnatural Str, Tough and Agi (all at 2 points, increasing their stat bonuses by 2) for 3, Bred for War for 1, and Wiry for 1. This will make them unable to be easily panicked and very fast. They also get Sprint for 1, for they are swift and swooping birbs. They spend the remaining 3 points on Wounds, raising them from 12 to 18. They are tough, dodgy, extremely quick when either running (waddling? Hopping?) or flying, and mostly focused on getting their rider into combat. Their 7 SB does add to the rider's attacks during big charges, though. And +7 damage because a great bloody bird is slamming into you is nice on top of the exploder lancer or saber. Mounts are great. This regiment actually doesn't suck and would probably do pretty well as ridiculous flying cavalry mounted on giant-eyed, big-mouthed warking birds as they descend upon the Emperor's enemies like furious, stupid angels of doom. Next Time: Press Button, Observe Result
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May 19, 2020 13:53
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I just want to say that it pleases me to no end that the most effective of the two suggested regiments are probably the idiot knights riding giant birds and the Redshirts. Honestly the orkaboos are pretty good too. The Kadeshii will do fine if they're doing their Actual Thing and terrible otherwise. The Minions are terrible, but their design concept was effectively 'these are idiots whose job it is to rob Dan Abnett protagonists like the Monarch dismantling Sgt. Hatred's hovertank in order to try to survive' and playing as them would be a comedy of errors and death with a clear gimmick, and them getting their poo poo wrecked and spending all their time hiding would be in theme anyway.
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May 19, 2020 13:59
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I love all these regiments.
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May 19, 2020 14:09
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 Pictured: The Noble Grand Ibijau, displaying his burning thirst for vengeance against the Emperor's foes. Just imagine a swarm of those things, large enough to carry a man, with golden-armored idiots with plasma lances all screaming WARRRRRRRRRK! on their backs. It's terrifying. And wonderful. Now back it up with chipper, fatalistic redshirts dual wielding the garage door opener from hell (phasers), confused space marines weighed down by gravity, minions flinging useless smoke grenades everywhere and running for the hills, and a thunderous swarm of buggies driven by warboys in green paint screamin 'OI WATCH DIS' and you understand the appeal of the Imperial Guard and how they can be goddamn anything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIGHCoVzqtk Set it all to this, and the Hammer of the Emperor is ready. Regiment Creation is absolutely the most fun part of Only War and I wish the rest of the game lived up to it. E: Oh, and if I was going to design Akkatan Infantry, they'd all wield Eviscerators and be Empire Greatswords but with bird-knight armor and chainsaws that can potentially cut a tank in half (possibly while RULES OF NATURE plays in the distance). The Akkatans are a noble people. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 14:26 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 14:14
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In hindsight I should've suggested a Rough Rider regiment that all ride on various kinds of catbirds. So demigryphs and gryph-chargers.
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May 19, 2020 14:48
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I would have just made them Potoo-Pallas Cat Gryphons. There's no stopping me. E: Which reminds me: The pre-made Rough Rider flying mount is a delicate giant winged cat that a Rogue Trader pawned off as a rare exotic animal. Then they started breeding like mad and overran the palaces until the frustrated nobles fobbed them off to make 'flying cavalry' just to get the stupid pests killed.
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May 19, 2020 14:49
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I want to hope that Orks are just pleased as punch to see the "waaaark" coming for them. These are wonderful regiments, and thank you Night!
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May 19, 2020 15:38
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Warhammer 40k Roleplay: Only War You May Not Like It, But This Is What Peak Performance Looks Like So, the various other Regiments were fun and cool. But I have a dark secret to tell you. Everyone would be better off using multilasers, autocannons, and lascannons. All those flavorful weapons and colorful resources everyone else had? Nope. The poor Red Shirts would do better sticking to heavier weapons than their cool phaser pistols. The Kadeshii would be best off throwing their blessed defenders' shotguns in the bin with all the lasguns and using whatever else. One of the secrets is that almost every class (excepting pretty much only the Medic) starts with an ability to equip a better weapon than most of their standard issue. Only the Orkaboos' buggies and the Avians' warkbirds and lances are actually particularly good gear. All that cool flavor isn't just best thrown out the window, the game will give you the ability to throw it out the window, eight o' clock, day one. Part of the problem here is that let's take the Kadeshii shotgun and put it against a Dark Eldar Warrior, who are meant to be some of the lighter and easier killed enemies (if you can hit the fuckers). Set aside the Warrior's 67% Dodge and the fact that they have Hard Target (-20 to enemy BS if they're Running) and Unnatural Agility that gives extra DoS on Dodges. Let's say the Kadeshii hits him. He's TB 3, AV 4. The aimed shotgun shots are doing d10+6, or 0-9 damage. The Warrior has 12 wounds. Without a 10 (you no longer do extra burst damage with Fury in OW, but instead instant-kill mooks and instantly cause a minor crit on elites) that weapon will take multiple shots to kill that guy. Shots that are hard to get on target. And that's a powerful, custom weapon compared to a lasgun. The lasgun is doing 0-6. On average, you'll need 3-5 shots on target (with a fire rate per round, if everything goes perfectly, of 3) for the lasgun to kill that very basic mook. Let's also note it is not going to be that difficult to get and use heavy weapons, and that it is not that hard for characters to make heavy weapons act like rifles. A Multilaser does 2d10+10 Pen2. It fires a lot of shots. At long range. One hit from that pastes the Warrior, or an Orc, or whatever and can chew through the weak facings on vehicles and destroy big monsters. Oh, and the bunch of Talents they introduced to buff Las weapons to try to make the Redshirts actually use their pistols, etc? All of them also buff a Multilaser. So... Still, at least the Phasers are playable. Especially if you get the one talent that lets you use any weapon-type as a sniper rifle if it has Accurate. Buy Versatile Shooter and the Redshirts are actually really good since they effectively have long-lases they can use in melee as standard, so hey. You just need to buy a Tier 3 expensive talent to make their stuff actually work as a sniping weapon. You know, spend a ton of character points to have the pistol, then spend a bunch of EXP to have the talent to use it like a sniper rifle, then spend a bunch more on getting all the Las talents, when you could have spent that EXP on using a weapon that is more effective right out of the box. Now, we make a Regiment based around the terrible truths of Only War. The 101 Optimizer Skitarii. They are the creation of a Magos obsessed with 'combat data' as a means of creating the perfect warrior or something, they're a bunch of crazy red-robed cyborgs. Now I could just plop down the Crimson Guard from the Shield of Humanity book with their Regiment-Creation-Breaking equipment rules, but I'm going to bet I can do better. Still, if you want to just be normal style broken, just play the default Crimson Guard and have every Guardsman count as a Techpriest while also having potentia coils, integrated infinite ammo rifles that are superior to bolters as standard, superior combat knives/bayonets, and uniform light power armor, despite there being no goddamn way you could start with all that normally. What do you mean the example regiments should probably follow all the rules? Rules are for non-techpriests! So the Optimizers start with Lathe Worlds as their background. This not only gives them a bunch of tech knowledge, it gives them Tech Use+10. It also gives them all Mechanicus Implants, so they can use all augmetics and later, can use Integrated Weapons to have infinite ammunition and enhanced weapons, because Techpriests get better stuff than anyone else at all times in all ways. Fundamentally, a Techpriest has access to more ways to advance their character, especially as many of their upgrades are handled by 'buying' them with Requisition checks instead of spending EXP on them. So they get to permanently advance their PC's base abilities with both EXP and other forms of advancement, beyond the kind of gear available to normal Guard. Having 'counts as both Guardsman and Techpriest' will greatly expand the options for prestige classes and class-changing to greatly...um, optimize an Optimizer's build during their career. We'll get to all that when we get to character building and you. The one weakness they get is -10 to Interaction with non-robit Guard. Also can't play as Psykers and stuff. But why would you want to? You've got Techpriests. The other weakness is this costs a heft 5 points. They get +3 BS and Int Their Commander is Fixed. (Long String of Binary That Means Something Clever But I Don't Speak Binary) is a real good commander who always knows what to do, I guess. The important part is it costs 1 point. They are a Grenadier Regiment, for 4 points, so every one of them starts with Light Carapace, a single-shot Grenade Launcher attached to their rifle (more useful than the rifle), +3 BS, +3 Tough, and -3 Per. They also get 2 full Grenade Launchers to put in the squad regardless of other gear. Also all get an extra rank of Tech Use and a Talent that reduces scatters and makes indirect fire easy. If they just buy Calculated Barrage (a cheap talent) their explosives can also pin down enemies as if they were making automatic suppressive fire, which is loving awesome. Carpeting people with explosives is one of the few exceptions to 'you want more cannons' in weapon use. They have like, a lost homeworld or something. You know, like those First and Only guys, that seems to make Guardsmen into supermen. 5 points, 2d10 Insanity, a tragic backstory, Hatred (Whatever The Campaign Is About), and a 20% chance they can't replace lost comrades. The servitors will comfort them. They take Defenders of the Omnissiah because getting +Tech Apt if they don't have it in their normal class is really important for them, since they're cybernetics specialists. I'd rather take something else, but they need Cyber Enhanced to be really bullshit, so Defenders is their only +Apt. Cyber Enhanced gives every member of the unit 2 Common or 1 Good quality implant item. No restriction on what, chosen on a per-character basis. The GM can technically sanity-check these, but c'mon. You're playing a Techpriest Regiment. You're here to be supreme. Again, one Talent they can get fairly easily will also buff the Quality of all their Cybernetics, and Good is usually all you need to get the most out of an Implant. For examples of the kind of poo poo they can pull with this, you could start with a magical jump pack that gives you Fear (1) and +10 to Parries (not dodges, somehow) while doubling your movement and also letting you fly. And then also maybe Subskin armor if you feel boring, for +2 AV that stacks with your carapace and makes you better armored than the normal Crimson Guard LPA. And if you're an actual Enginseer, you start with the Cyber Enhanced implants, then get to DOUBLE DIP because they all effectively start with that bonus. This is primo. Forward, my deathbot legions! Now, they're already pretty good on gear, though they kind of lack for an actual rifle. I could have them all start with Multilasers, but that's a little awkward since only some of them will have the training for heavy weapons or ability to carry one, and it will take many of them a little difficulty and a class change to be able to fire them like rifles. So instead they all get the Lathe Pattern Lasrifle. It's good enough, and it has infinite ammo, and is an integrated weapon. Those Crimson Guard jerks got them for free, but our guys had to pay 20 of their 32 gear points for them. That's fine, it's a good enough rifle to be useful. They'll spend 10 more points on having 2 regimental favored weapons, and 2 on a watch. Then they have Multilasers and Autocannons as their favored weapons, and, uh...Plasma Guns for their Basic, because Integrated Plasma Guns can actually do some work. Also, they're AdMech, they have to have Plasma. AdMech love plasma, these are just truefacts. Are they boring compared to the other Regiments? Hell yes. They've got a generic tragic lost world backstory, a lust for combat data, and everything about them was designed around min-maxing them. Are they more powerful than any of the others? Probably. A tank regiment might be stronger. Hell, you can start with a Baneblade if you build right. Not much more powerful than that. But for an actual infantry regiment? These guys are peak performance. And they're boring. This will be a theme. There is a great deal of flavorful, colorful stuff you can do in OW. Most of it will get you killed. All in all, making regiments is super fun. I could sit around coming up with silly fluff for ridiculous sci-fantasy armies all day, and you can almost certainly fit the Regimental Options to the fluff pretty much no matter who you make. Just look at how I was able to, within the rules and without house-ruling, make all of these ridiculous people. You need the add on books to do that, sure; the original book is a little lacking for Regiment Creation. But it's easily the best part of Only War. Sadly, the character building, the Comrades system, and the rest of the game is going to let it down harder than an Akkatan falling off an Ibijau into an adamantine plate. Next Time: Aptitudes Are A Goddamn Mess
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May 19, 2020 16:02
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wiegieman posted:I genuinely, to this day, do not understand the problem people have with AP hacking. ...there was a hacking minigame?
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May 19, 2020 16:47
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JcDent posted:...there was a hacking minigame? Yes it was. It was easy enough for me on xbox, but not on PC. It was not a lot of fun for a lot of folks. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 16:58 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 16:55
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Josef bugman posted:Yes... it was. It was easy enough for me on xbox, but not on PC. Trying to find and line up weird moving bits of my screen with the arrow keys was difficult enough. Doing it with my imprecise, twitchy mouse movements was worse. Having to do both at once was basically impossible.
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May 19, 2020 16:56
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Warhammer 40k Roleplay: Only War And off the cliff we go I think the only system of advancement worse than the Aptitude system in the various Hams RPGs is possibly the God-based advancement scheme in BC, and it's a close race. A very close race. BC has the whole 'characters are kind of nonsensical and you have to be X to be any good at Y' going for it, especially since God alignment is very closely tied to character concept and roleplay. But OW's Aptitudes system is simply broken. It's an attempt to make advancement more open: Nothing is stopping you from buying X, Y, or Z. All classes, all characters have access to every skill and talent in the game. You don't need to be a Heavy to learn to use Heavy weapons. You DO need to be a Psyker to be good at Willpower, though, which was probably a mistake but I'm pretty used to 40kRP giving everyone who needs it poor access to a critical stat just because it's also the mage stat. It's been doing that since day one, as the original DH Guardsmen scream and fall over the instant a demon shows up or suppressive fire happens while the nerdy Adept stands firm. The way you use Aptitudes is thus: You have Stat Aptitudes (for each stat) and then 'specialized' aptitudes like Defense, Offense, Tech, Fieldcraft, Finesse, Leadership, Tech, Knowledge, Social (Way better than Leadership), and Psyker. These secondary aptitudes are much much more valuable; the only one you can get as a bonus through Regimental Doctrines is Tech (though it's a winner). Most classes have 6 Aptitudes, some have 7, and the Techpriest Enginseer has 8 (of loving course). If you already had an Aptitude that you'd get from a Regiment bonus you get to pick any one stat aptitude and add it to your sheet. The secondary aptitudes are very powerful or very terrible: Leadership basically only buffs the Command skill and a few specialized talents and doesn't help with raising stats, while Offense and Finesse both get you extremely critical stats (Offense helps with Str and WS, Finesse with BS and Agi.) when combined with the stat apts and also help you buy some of the best combat talents in the game. Tech and Leadership don't link to stats, but Tech gets you lots of really good Talents and Tech Use is money, so it gets a pass. Having 2 apts that link to a stat basically gets you the 'good' stat advance costs from DH (100, 250, 500, 750). Having 1 gets you average (250, 500, 750, 1000). Having 0 means you should probably just not bother (500, 750, 1000, 2500) until you can class-change. Oh, yeah. You can class change. This was introduced in the add-on books and is the key to gaming the gently caress out of the Aptitude system to turbo-charge your PC. It's like a very stupid version of WHFRP2e's Career system. We'll get to it. Anyway, skills also go from Rank 1 (no -20 penalty to use it) to Rank 4 (+30 to use it). Skills cost a ton to improve unless you double match Apts. 100-200-300-400 if you double-match, double that if you single match, triple if you 0 match and c'mon. Unless it's Dodge and you desperately need it at at least Rank 1 to not die, leave it alone until you class change. The huge cost of improving beyond base at anything but skills you're great at will help silo off your character and make sure you stay in your lane. As is often the case with these kinds of 'you technically have options, but if you take one, you will cripple your PC's build because it wasted a ton of resources on something really inefficient for you' systems. I'm looking at you, Cross Class Skills and Feats! Talents require pre-reqs often, but also go on Tiers. Tier 1 talents are cheap, Tier 2 expensive, and Tier 3 very expensive. 200 for Tier 1, 300 for Tier 2, 400 for Tier 3 if you double-match, 300-450-600 if you single-match, and 600-900-1200 if you 0 match and again, don't take poo poo you 0 match for. Imagine if you spend 1200 on something you 0 matched for. You'd better really need that. Because you could have bought a ton of other stuff. Also note Sound Con, the +Wound Talent, is a Tier 1 that you can only take ranks of up to 2x your TB. Not that it's a great idea; you're probably dead if you get hit by serious weapons and if you spent, say, 1200 EXP increasing your HP by 6 you could have spent that on talents that would kill your enemy first or let you evade their attacks entirely, which is usually a better use of your time than 'I can maybe take one more hit from a small-arms weapon before I drop'. The effect of the Tiering system is mostly that players will bee-line for the 'best' talents. You need to be as efficient with your EXP as possible in OW, because you're very squishy but you can also be very, very powerful. The freeform optimization system and the later addition of class changing and prestige classes gives you a ton of options to snap the game over your knee, and if that's what you're into (well, that and rocket tag) OW might be fun for you. If you just want to turboslam the Multilaser into your enemy and blow away hordes of Space Marines, you can build PCs to do it; you're basically a lot like Black Crusade human heretics, save you start a little lower level. However, all of this also makes it very easy to make very useless PCs. If you haven't studied 40kRP really thoroughly, and don't know all the tricks and traps and bad options, you can build what sounds like a cool and fluffy character who can't do poo poo and mostly just dies. The problem is that mud-and-blood guardsman murder simulator isn't really what the game is built for; you're mostly super-badass special forces types if you build for it. In a better system I'd say that was probably an intentional choice, letting some players have games where they're gritty ordinary soldiers with lasguns trying to fight off the enemies of the Imperium and others have games where they're super operators. The problem is that which tone you have is down almost entirely to system mastery and building your PCs. Which means you will often get these things co-existing. Which is not good. There's also far more support for the super-operator game, and I suspect it's the dominant mode of play. Most people who buy Only War are going to have been on the 40kRP train for some time. The most frustrating part about Aptitudes is that they are an attempt to let players branch out and play whatever, paying for flexibility by spending extra resources. The problem is that that makes some things clearly correct choices and others not; the character who plays entirely to type and follows the One True Build for whatever class they're in right now is generally going to be far more powerful. You are theoretically flexible and free. In reality you are mostly making the choice of 'do I want my PC to accomplish things or not', which is not really a choice. It is a common failing of 'freeform' advancement systems and it's in full swing here. Add to that characters having very uneven Aptitude access, and even varying numbers of Aptitudes, and it also unbalances the character classes. Next Time: Classes, Class Changing, and Breaking the System
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May 19, 2020 17:26
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On the subject of lasguns and the Guard, I think lasguns don't really work for Only War because Only War seems to want to live up to one half of the Guard's fluff, where they're badasses who punch well above their weight and do the impossible. Thing is, the lasgun's advantages and why it's the iconic weapon of the Guard don't work for that kind of story. It's cheap, reliable, can take a horrendous amount of abuse and stay functional, is easy to fix even when it does break, and ammo for it is near-limitless to the point of being able to recharge packs by tossing them in a campfire or leaving them in bright sunlight. To me, a game about the Guard where the lasgun is and stays an iconic piece of kit is a Guard game that's a horror game. You're an ordinary man or woman in the trenches of a war filled with monsters - both on the far side of no man's land, and behind you. The command structure is a Kafka-esque nightmare of bureaucracy, and the elite of the Imperium you're fighting for are more alien and monstrous than most of the things you're sent to kill. And that game would be dead accurate to the fluff, too, the fluff that isn't about the glorious fascist army of evil. In that kind of game, a weapon that always works and always has ammo might suddenly become your very best friend.
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May 19, 2020 22:19
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There's a ton of the fluff of how everything is a kafkaesque nightmare, etc. It really wants to be able to run that game too, it just can't, because most of the rules are focused on being super badass and there's no real support for the other mode of play, because you can break out of that mode of play just by building your PC competently. That's kind of the problem. You don't have the support to really run the terrified guardsmen in a trench, except if you mis-build your PC. Then it turns into that, but only for you, while Sgt. Glorious over there is chainsawing through fifteen Bloodletters, in the same campaign. And the Techpriest is casually piledriving Space Marines, but that's just FFG.
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May 19, 2020 22:27
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I just don't get why the first thought when designing the combat mechanics of a Guardsman game isn't: "We should make sure the Lasrifle is a balanced weapon that has a reason to be the primary gun of the Imperial Guard and functions in combat against the basic enemies."
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May 19, 2020 22:33
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I can tell you why: Because while none of the 40kRP games are actually backwards compatible, they like to pretend they are, so if the lasrifle was a d10+3 scrub weapon in other games, it has to be here! After all, what if people want to mix a Guard and other character type party somehow? Never mind all the subsystems, backings, and rules mutations that have happened between those, they're technically semi-compatible! E: This is the same dumb idea that gives us every game giving you a shitload of EXP you aren't allowed to spend at the start of the game, to mark where you 'should be' next to a DH character, despite EXP costs changing between every game and thus that not being any kind of accurate marker. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 22:41 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 22:39
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ah, you see, those boltguns you've been using in previous games are just a pale imitation of the true Astartes boltgun.
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May 19, 2020 22:40
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Which, dumb as it could be, at least had the effect of making the TacMarine's 'I am really loving good with our basic rifle' an actual super useful ability that kicked rear end to play.
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May 19, 2020 22:42
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The Comrade system is actually shaped like something you'd actually want to have in a good Guardsman game. It has plenty of problems that I'm sure night will get into, but it's almost there. Having a nameless guardsman who can take shots for your named guy and also power ability is actually really thematically appropriate for a Guardsman game. Give each player 2 Comrades per mission, and enable a Last Stand special ability once both are dead. So you start off full of teamwork and such, and transition into desperate last stand at the same rate your comrade abilities are turned off. EDIT: And I'd also have it so that any time you score a hit on an enemy, each of your surviving Comrades scores a free lasgun hit too. So your Weapon Specialists with the grenade launcher or plasma gun gets 0-2 small lasgun hits, but your Lasgun Specialist (who may not be able to put one 1-1 as much damage as the heavy, which is fine) still gets to apply their lasgun bonuses to their comrades. Really turn them into a one-player horde force multiplier Kaza42 fucked around with this message at 22:47 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 22:45
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All of the 40k games suffer a lot for having a bunch of game specific systems, but also a general unwillingness to tailor stats and items and things to the specific game since they need to resemble prior stats and items. So Orks 'should' have Unnatural Toughness and hit like a truck in melee, regardless of if that makes for a fun Imperial Guard game, so you end up with 'The Imperial Guard's Endless Multilaser Fusilade' to counter it because also a Multilaser 'should' represent a Str 6 high damage anti-infantry autocannon. 'Should be like X' without consideration for actual gameplay tailoring is what kills OW. E: Also there's absolutely no consideration of how differently damage and penetration of armor work here compared to TT stats, so stuff has general guidelines around TT stats (with a massive jump when you get up to stuff that used to be Str 6+ on TT, presumably because that's the level that would gib T3 human characters) without considering how well or if any of it works here. They should have ditched any guidance from TT and just redone the weapons and armor to fit the d10/d100 system they were actually using. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 23:31 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 23:23
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I guess we knew it from the start, where in Dark Heresy we thought it was about the Abnett elite operatives of Ravenor and Eisenhorn but instead it was just re-skinned WHFB 2E jobbers.
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May 19, 2020 23:30
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The thing is that was only ever DH. Ever since FFG took over, they wanted the Ravenor/Eisenhorn/Abnett Elite Operatives. Just they had a system for 'weaker, more cowardly, and less competent than WHFRP2e' characters that didn't work well for itself or for what they wanted to use it for, and the whole framework just screams under the weight like someone's d20 heartbreaker. All of the games past DH feel like games intended for a different system, using the DH base they inherited because they had to, while it didn't work for them in the slightest.
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May 19, 2020 23:36
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Night10194 posted:The thing is that was only ever DH. Ever since FFG took over, they wanted the Ravenor/Eisenhorn/Abnett Elite Operatives. Just they had a system for 'weaker, more cowardly, and less competent than WHFRP2e' characters that didn't work well for itself or for what they wanted to use it for, and the whole framework just screams under the weight like someone's d20 heartbreaker.
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May 19, 2020 23:48
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It's unnaturals, multidice weapons, and the way things scale that make that impossible. Plus the series' bizarre allergy to giving PCs HP. Like loving hell, when you're acknowledging all your boss monsters need 100+ Wounds to survive more than one round, why are you making players pay huge costs for a single hitpoint? It works in WHFRP because at the crazy tier of power you've got Exalted Lord Taurial the Bright and she basically won't take damage unless she's Furied (and has good active defenses) since she's DR 14 in a system where Damage 4 is significant and endgame PCs do Damage 5 or 6, so those +8 or +10 Wounds actually matter. Not so in 40kRP where even if you're a Marine, a 5d10+10 Lascannon is going to splat you.
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May 19, 2020 23:59
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Wonder if you should check out Wrath and Glory after this to see how the changes work for 40k.
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May 20, 2020 00:03
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I don't review things (generally) unless I have direct experience with them. 1e was the only exception because I found it so interesting to read that I wanted to talk about it. I have no intention of ever writing or running or playing in a 40k game again as I never want to deal with the setting again as long as I live, so I can't fulfill that qualification for that. E: I should make it clear: I hate Warhammer 40k and I was completely done with 'playing with fascist imagery' as a fun thing to do past 2016. I also think it's miserably boring to write plots for unless you're primarily making up your own stuff and having more fun, at which point I would just write my own technofeudal or sci-fi setting. Further E: I know the setting well, I think FFG's writers did a good job with what they had and were well-intentioned and pretty interesting, and I respect their work on the fluff for the 40kRP games quite a bit. I just never want to write for the setting again myself. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 00:22 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 00:05
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Didn't the BL->FFG changeover only happen after Rogue Trader? edit: wait, no, nevermind. Black Industries was closed like a month after Dark Heresy. FFG continuing the gameline was something that was only announced like months later, though, if I recall? Der Waffle Mous fucked around with this message at 00:30 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 00:24
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No, it happened as soon as DH hit the stores. Black Industries was shuttered during the pre-order and very, very initial publication of DH, finishing it just in time to be closed by GW and the game was nearly cancelled before being given to FFG. This is part of why it's something of a mess, the company was trying to finish it before they got closed down.
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May 20, 2020 00:26
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Night10194 posted:I don't review things (generally) unless I have direct experience with them. 1e was the only exception because I found it so interesting to read that I wanted to talk about it. I have no intention of ever writing or running or playing in a 40k game again as I never want to deal with the setting again as long as I live, so I can't fulfill that qualification for that. Fair. 40k has become my least favorite of the three main Warhammer settings at this point too.
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May 20, 2020 00:30
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edit isn't quote. Still. I remember being really annoyed by the announcement.
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May 20, 2020 00:31
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Ah, yeah. And yeah, the weird development history is part of why despite my distaste for 40k, I find the 40kRP games fascinating. They're a good faith effort by some genuinely talented and skilled people, who did some really good work. I think they fail in the end for a lot of reasons, but the effort was definitely made. And I think the original DH2e Playtest stuff was important to cover because the writers and designers deserve recognition that they understood the system was hosed and actually did try to fix it. Even if I don't think all their solutions were good, it was a beta/alpha document for considering where to go next and the fact that it at least addressed and was open to changing every major flaw of the system deserves recognition and actual praise. FFG did their best, the situation was just a very difficult one. And I might hate the setting now but I had some damned good games in this system and setting in college and it helped me make some of my best friends and brought together our group in the first place. It has tremendous problems, but I still really enjoyed it at the time. E: Also got me into Fantasy so hey!
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May 20, 2020 00:36
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Funny enough my copy of the DH core rulebook is the Black Industries one. Although the production must've been sloppy because the glue on the spine let go really quickly. And I have the BI version of the first supplement as well. And yet I only managed to play single one shot of the game. v  vNot that it stopped me from getting a whole bunch of the books and DH2 core too for some reason.
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May 20, 2020 00:41
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Wait so. Dark Heresy had a rushed first edition because the company producing it was shuttered, after which it was rapidly handed over to another studio to fix and continue the line. Didn't something extremely similar to this happen to Wrath and Glory?
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May 20, 2020 00:41
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Nah, the production company shuttered after release but I have no idea if that affected the development time of it or not. As for W&G, gently caress if I know. Never paid too much attention to the development of it outside of scarce articles and only saw some comments about the fallout afterwards.
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May 20, 2020 00:50
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Soulbound Party Traders  Bataar is a nation whose people embrace life and the joys of living - probably the main thing that kept them going in the Age of Chaos, in fact. They are famous for their hospitality and kindness in social settings and utterly ruthless dealmaking and business acumen at the negotiating table. They have mantained a long but friendly rivalry with Aspiria for as long as both nations have existed. The Bataari are a wealthy and creative people, finding value where others see only danger. For example, most would have destroyed the flamespiders that live in Bataar as fire-spreading pests. Not the Bataari, however, who instead found a way to tame or befriend these creatures, using them to harvest their magical webs to process into firesilk, which remains warm in winter, cool in hot times, and can be dyed with many colors that dance across it like flame. Firesilk is a luxury good anywhere in the mortal realms, and a source of great profit. In fact, it formed the core of the old Bataari trade network, along with the magical goods they brokered for Aspiria and the metalcraft of the Vostargi Mont Fyreslayers. They even built a huge trade road into the eastern lands, across the Beastbridge. This Gilded Track, as it was known, brought in many travelers, whose funds flowed into Bataari purses. They built the Iron Armada to protect themselves and their allies, and with the aid of Aspirian magic, they made the Floating Market, which flew over their lands. Almost all of it was destroyed in the Age of Chaos. Nurgle's forces sank the Iron Armada so thoroughly that the site of their fall is still known as Armada's Bane. Of all the great cities and marketplaces of the Bataari traders, only one survived: the Floating Market, defended by flight and Aspirian cannons. What few Bataari could not flee their lands or escape to the Floating Market were enslaved by the warbands, most notably the Goretide. They were made to carry goods that their slavers didn't even want, just for the pleasure of seeing them suffer. Their road is now called the Bloodied Track...though the Bataari do not resent it, because they knew: gold didn't lose all its value, not to the Fyreslayers. The slaves secretly buried large stocks of gold along the Bloodied Track, when their masters weren't paying attention. The Floating Market expanded, becoming the Floating City, and the free Bataari worked to help their enslaved countrymen whenever they could. When Sigmar's Tempest erupted, they knew the time had come. The Floating City sent diplomats to Vostargi Mont,to hire as many lodges as they could to fight the forces of Chaos controlling Bataar. Their payment? The buried gold. This was the Grand Ruse, which the slaves had committed under the noses of their captors. It took three years of fighting, but the Bataari, Stormcast and Fyreslayers pushed back the warbands of Khorne and Nurgle, freeing most of the slaves. Once more, Bataar is ascendant. The land is still full of dangerous beasts and vengeful marauders, most notably the Slaaneshi Scalped in the east and the Goretide in the Gatelands. However, the Bloodied Track is once more a trade road and symbol of Bataar, a monument to their cunning and the power of the Fyreslayer mercenaries. (That said, most merchants won't use it without a guard of Fyreslayers, mostly of the local Hermdar Lodge.) The Far Traders are once more seeking to expand their network to other realms, and the demand for firesilk is growing wildly. Most Bataari are happy to trade with the Azyrites, but don't particularly like them. They appreciate the Stormcast, but most Bataari aren't Sigmarite and also aren't fond of hard currency, having a long tradition of using barter, trade goods and favors instead. They love the Kharadron, whom they see as worthy competitors; the duardin don't seem to know how to deal with people who refuse to take up arms over trade disputes but can still compete with them on the field of business as equals, but they're leanring. Most wild flamespiders live within the Flamespider Woad, a thousand-mile stretch of conifers that sees more rain than the entire rest of the Great Parch combined. The tame ones are kept in packs around Silker's Ridge, but it is a firesilker tradition to regularly bring in new wild captures in order to maintain high quality silk. This has been a problem lately - Nurglite warbands have taken refuge in parts of the forest. This was a problem in itself, but is now compounded by a rash of disease among the wild flamespiders, and infected spiders have begun emerging from the forest to attack settlements. The Floating City was, originally, a small fleet of sailing vessels tied together to create a marketplace on the Ocean of Swords. It would travel from port to port, growing over the years, and had many inhabitants before it ever took to the sky. Aspirian magic made it fly, and it is now the heart of Bataar's people. Nearly anything can be found there, for a price, and nearly every price is negotiable. It usually flies over southern Bataar, but can be moved as needed. Airships travel to and from it at all hours, and it is defended by large cannons and magical weapons from Aspiria. Once, it was ruled by merchant-kings, but most of them died. Their surviving descendants formed the Bataar Trader's Guild, based out of the Floating City, and serve as its ruling council. Rank in the council is redetermined yearly via the Game of Razored Gifts, a traditional competition of giving outlandish, unique and expensive tributes to each other. Better play improves one's social rank in the guild and the city, and so the merchant-princes are always hunting for folks that can assist them in finding truly special gifts for their next round. The city has seen a rise in Sylvaneth population, possibly as a result of the princes reaching out to them in hopes of acquiring rare plants. The Lake of Dark Pacts is a beautiful freshwater lake, one of the largest in the Parch, though the Bataari tend to avoid it. Once, it was home to fleets of pleasure ships and surrounded by villages, but all were lost in the Age of Chaos. The warbands despoiled the region, and while small encampments have been rebuilt along the river that flows into the lake, few stay at the shore. The name, it is said, comes from an ancient and tragic love story about lovers who committed suicide when they could not be together. Even if that's false, the lake is a place where strange things happen and the fabric of reality is thin. When the Necroquake came, the old pleasure barges returned - now ghostly ships, piloted by spirits. They often send out spectral press gangs to seize mortals and force them to join the undead parties. Sometimes, the lake reflects stars of some other realm, and many believe that it could be used as a realmgate into Shyish, if the right key was found.  Capilaria has lost much in its time, but gained much more. It was once filled with ancient tribes, but almost all are long since destroyed. The region was a battlefield in the Age of Chaos and Sigmar's Storm, and even now, the Goretide's warbands roam the further regions, slaughtering towns when they aren't intercepted by the cog-fort patrols from Hammerhal Aqsha. While Capilaria was once a place of rich farmland, most of it is now choked with blood and without much growth, except around the new cities. The land was famous for its smith-lords, whose skill with metal was taught to them by the Duardin. The most famous were the Direbrand tribe, loyal allies of the Fyreslayers of Vostargi Mont. They were often leaders of the Capilarian tribes...but they are gone now, killed to the last soul. The weapons they created are said to be still the best ever made in Aqshy. Hammerhal Aqsha is half of the Twin-Tailed City, built around the Stormrift Realmgate. It is the center of Sigmar's work in reclaiming the Mortal Realms, along with its counterpart in Ghyran's Jade Kingdom of Verdia. The Stormcast seized the rift from both sides, driving out the orruk tribes that held it over several years. The city takes its name from the leaders of that assault, the Hammers of Sigmar, who are the Stormhost that maintain their garrison there. They found much realmstone in the mountains nearby, using its power to help build up Hammerhal. Now, those realmstones power a lightning shield that wards off attack in Aqshy and mystic wards that confuse invaders in Ghyran. Hammerhal is ever-growing, the largest city in the mortal realms. It is supplied by airships (and a few sailing ships), bringing in supplies through the rift-docks. Nearly anything you need can be found on the docks, somewhere, or in the riftmarkets. Food is brought in from Ghyran, and magma flows out, used to burn away the plants that threaten to consume the city on the other side of the rift. Hammerhal was attacked by armies of Chaos for years after its construction. Most recently, it faced an entire alliance of Chaos warbands that called themselves the Crimson Horde. Tzeentch and Slaanesh seek to infiltriate with their cults, and sabotage by Skaven spies or other infiltrators is not rare. The Pale Prince leads his vampiric flock from the shadows, performing vicious blood rites in mockery of Hammerhal. The Grand Conclave, a full council of 244 officials representing every faction and cultural group in Hammerhal and representatives from other Order cities, meet regularly to try and decide how to handle the walking dead that plague the city while sitll directing the attacking armies of Order in their war on Chaos and Nagash. The Conclave is rarely united and spends a lot of time arguing, with members pursuing their own interests or fighting each other. The day-to-day management of Hammerhal Aqsha is instead handled by the Council of Twelve, a subgroup of the Grand Conclave made up of those directly selected by Sigmar and the authorities of Azyr for their ability to make decisions for the city proper rather than the whole Grand Alliance. Several weeks northeast is Skulpile, the "city" that serves as the chief meeting place of the Tribes of Burning Blood and their fellow Khornites. Its buildings are largely made out of giant skulls, with curtains of various skins and leathers working as doors or window coverings. The center of the settlement is its namesake, a centuries-old and still-growing pyramid of skulls collected by the Khornite tribes, ranging from small humanoid skulls to massive ones torn from the beasts of Ghur. Warriors devoting themselves to Khorne seek out Skulpile from across the realms to place their trophies, hoping to earn Khorne's attention. All combat and murder is legal within Skulpile, and it is home to large fighting pits that hold frequent death-duels in honor of the Blood God. In the south is the acidic Vitriol Sea, home of the Clavis Isles. Above the ISles floats the Clavis Rift, known commonly as the Eye. It is a hellish portal into the Realm of Khorne, the very portal first used to open the Age of Chaos. Daemons and Chaos warriors pass through it in service to the Blood God or to bolster the Khornite warbands of the Parch. At the southernmost tipe of the islands is Everylme Point, a fortress of Khorne whose name dates back to the Age of Myth. It was once a trading colony built to harvest lime for construction and alchemy in Aspiria. However, when the Eye opened, daemons of Khorne took over the isles, conquering Everlyme Point in the span of an hour. Now, it is a daemonic fortress of brass and lime, and the armies of daemons frequently use it as a gathering point to launch military campaigns. Mortal captives are taken there to be hunted for sport, which tends to kill them faster than the chemical burns from all the raw quicklime. Vandium is a Sigmarite fortress-city, named in honor of Vandus Hammerhand, Lord-Celestant of the Hammers of Sigmar. It sits on the northern tip of the Coast of Bone, built around the Goldforge Stormkeep. Within the keep is a realmgate leading to Azyr, called the Road of Thunder due to the constant storms on the Azyrite side. The thudner echoes from Goldforge at all hours due to the gate's near-constant use as a resupply port. Vandium is very closely tied to Hammerhal, and it serves as a frequent staging ground for Order troops, particularly the Stormcast. It is said to be impossible to siege - a claim that nearly proved hollow during the Necroquake, when two Nighthaunt (read: ghost) armies attacked it in quick succession. Had they worked together, they might even have succeeded. Next time: Cotha, the Eastern Parch and Flamescar Plateau
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May 20, 2020 01:34
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Were I more energetically dumb person I'd make a hack of Red Markets where everyone automatically gets a lasgun-type weapon that you can always choose to default to while everything else does cool poo poo with drawbacks. Mostly because of how versatile the common handgun is in Red Markets with its upgrades making me think of the lasgun's reliability.
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May 20, 2020 01:50
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