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i mean complaining that something important isn’t explained in game in terraria is kinda weird to me. the main reason we know as much as we do is because the community has figured it out and updated the wiki and such. knowing when herbs bloom is really important but isn’t explained in game either. if you care about farming drops you’re already reading the wiki religiously to begin with but if you’re just going through the game it’s not going to matter
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May 20, 2020 08:27
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It doesn't just affect drops. It affects every single possible random roll in the game, including your damage variability. So a player with bad torch feng shui is always rolling twice and getting the worse result when attacking. Edit: I think the thing that really gets me is that they tied this hidden mechanic to using biome-specific torches of all things. If you had to gather up garden gnomes and wind chimes and such and position them appropriately and that got you some sort of luck buff it's be cool, but being penalized for using a basic game mechanic without any warning that you're being penalized loving sucks.
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May 20, 2020 09:07
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Huh, reading that wiki list of supposed effects would explain some things... That's some weird bullshit. Don't suppose any of the world viewers can find and replace my thousands of torches with Ultrabright?
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May 20, 2020 10:20
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watho posted:i really like the luck and happiness mechanics, they are very similar in that if you want to farm with the maximum efficiency you need to do a bit of prep beforehand, and if you want the best prices from specific npcs you need to make sure they are matched with the ones they like in the biome they prefer. it adds a bit of thought and strategy to otherwise brainless activities Torch luck...really doesn't add any thought or strategy? It's a dumbass gotcha penalty mechanic that invisibly and harshly punishes people who don't know it exists, and once you know it exists you figure out which torch you need to put in which place to completely negate the gotcha penalty forever and never think of it ever again beyond "I'm going to the jungle, so I'll bring jungle torches". Like "use jungle torches while in the jungle" isn't really thought provoking like building a good arena or a mob grinder setup, it's just a yes/no check to see if the player reads discussion threads or trawls the wiki to know it exists in the first place. It would be one thing if normal torches - the thing 99.9% of Terraria players spam everywhere constantly as a matter of habit - were luck neutral and the incentive to engage with the mechanic was entirely positive reinforcement for using bespoke torches, but no, instead you get hurt pretty bad for using normal torches in a lot of biomes. Just baffling. Kanos fucked around with this message at 11:30 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 11:26
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remember when potion sickness was added and a lot of people complained because you could just spam health potion constantly anymore? having to put the torches you get in each biome in that biome for slightly better damage rolls feels a lot easier to adapt to
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May 20, 2020 11:43
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At least there was some justification for that because Potion spamming can break the difficulty curve of the game over its knee. You could also see the new change the moment it happened because there is always a Potion Sickness debuff symbol under your hotbar. Secret torch luck mechanics that can gently caress you over without you ever even realizing they're there and with no real way to evaluate how much you're currently being affected by it is just obnoxious and stupid.
Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 12:03 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 11:56
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my point is that people were complaining this much of not more in the 1.1 thread or whenever it got added about potion sickness despite it being way more reasonable. if you’re in the jungle the pots drop jungle torches, if you’re in the desert the game drops desert torches, maybe my brain is just broken in the same way as the devs but even before knowing what they did i went out of my way to use the biome specific torches in the right place
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May 20, 2020 12:02
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And if you're in the forest biome pretty much any torch will reduce your luck! It's a bad mechanic.
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May 20, 2020 12:11
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Yeah, agreed. The difference is that people who complained about potion sickness were just annoyed that they couldn't cheese bosses as easily anymore. This is actually a bad mechanic and the game never even tells you it's there. I could've gone who knows how without even realizing that if someone hadn't mentioned it here.
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May 20, 2020 12:12
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That Guy Bob posted:And if you're in the forest biome pretty much any torch will reduce your luck! It's a bad mechanic. because luck make a big difference in the forrest biome
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May 20, 2020 12:16
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Comparing an awkward busywork mechanic to "People should just git gud at boss fights" mechanics. A proud(?) tradition in gaming.
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May 20, 2020 12:18
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It's where I tend to fight events and summoned bosses, so yes, considering the effects it has it really does.
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May 20, 2020 12:19
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I haven't played terraria in like 6 years before this update came out and this mechanic sounds loving terrible It's annoying busywork Andrast fucked around with this message at 12:24 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 12:19
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It's also one more reason to never not play on Journey again. God knows I'm not collecting all those different flavours of torches by hand if I can just research them once and then summon them in.
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May 20, 2020 12:20
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Also it's just further reason to spam the everloving poo poo out of Ultrabright Torches. They're apparently one of the only luck-neutral torches in the game, so may as well level the playing field in the simplest way possible. EDIT: One of those mods making it worse will be Calamity. Calling it now.
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May 20, 2020 12:27
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Dumb Lowtax posted:Looks like dis astranagant or Zereth take away the award for posting far more in here than anyone:  Holy poo pooAlso I don't think I do no.
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May 20, 2020 12:29
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Now that I know about torch luck I'll be avoiding the ice biome until I get ultrabrights. My underground desert is already infested with regular torches sadly, and I don't see myself replacing them.
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May 20, 2020 12:31
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i really don’t see how placing the torches you get in a biome in that biome is busywork, you have to go out of your way not to do it most of the time and with the whole pylon system nothing’s really stopping you from making your arena in the desert or tundra or something, the impact of luck is pretty minuscule and the ways to get positive luck are really easy. if you’re already building arenas and making potions it’s like a few seconds extra to skew odds on your favor, and especially if you’re playing on journey mode where you have infinite torches to begin with i understand being frustrated if you completely ignored the concept of biome torches until you now and filled your world with normal torches but i don’t see how it’s worse than going through pre-hardmode without fishing and setting up a herb farm so you have a steady supply of potions for the hard parts of the game
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May 20, 2020 12:31
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watho posted:i really don’t see how placing the torches you get in a biome in that biome is busywork, you have to go out of your way not to do it most of the time You have to go out of your way to not just use the massive pile of regular torches you’re incentivized to make from the get-go. The game teaches you immediately upon entering your first cave that you should spam torches. It even has them drop out of breakables and they light up the area when they drop to drive the point home. How about you defend making regular torches have a malus instead of being neutral? Not having the gnome doesn’t decrease your luck, right? So why do torches?
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May 20, 2020 12:55
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Yeah, the entire thing would be much less annoying if you were simply incentivized for using the right kind of torch by getting luck benefits for it without also getting substantial maluses for using the only type that is plentiful and easy to make. What exactly are you supposed to do if you just don't have the right kind of torch or run out in the middle of a cave expedition? Just turn around and go back and hope you'll find more of the right sort in a different cave somewhere?
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May 20, 2020 12:59
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Cardiovorax posted:Yeah, the entire thing would be much less annoying if you were simply incentivized for using the right kind of torch by getting luck benefits for it without also getting substantial maluses for using the only type that is plentiful and easy to make. What exactly are you supposed to do if you just don't have the right kind of torch or run out in the middle of a cave expedition? Just turn around and go back and hope you'll find more of the right sort in a different cave somewhere? you can easily craft them with a normal torch and the biome specific equivalent of stone, 3 torches and 1 ice/hardened sands/crimstone whatever makes a biome torch jungle is a bit more tricky since you need jungle spores for them but you get 15 torches per so you’ll easily end up with a surplus
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May 20, 2020 13:02
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Alright, that makes it a lot more bearable. Thanks for the tip.
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May 20, 2020 13:03
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It's pretty dumb to punish the player for following habits they've spent years establishing, it's incredibly dumb to do so in a way that doesn't really resemble anything else in you're game and it's impossibly dumb to do so without communicating it to the player. Also apart from anything else it's just more goddamn inventory bloat. There's frankly way too much stuff that drops just from the process of digging holes and killing the monsters you meet along the way, I already can't go more than about five minutes without emptying my inventory of all the junk blocks, useless monster drops, odd alchemy ingredients, obsolete exploration tools, useless potions, gems, old ores, I could probably go on. I don't want to occupy even more inventory slots with torches, the stuff to craft them, and whatever else I get from the pots I haven't been smashing because I haven't needed their contents since twenty minutes into this character's lifetime. And what's even the purpose of it? Even if you don't find it annoying to actually play with, what does it add to the game?
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May 20, 2020 13:06
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It would be infinitely better if it was just an optional way to get better luck if you knew about it and could be bothered. The negative luck (especially on default torches) is the entire problem
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May 20, 2020 13:13
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Honestly, if they removed the negative effects this would be a really cool mechanic. I like the idea of being given an incentive to use appropriate torches - but these carrots come with too much stick
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May 20, 2020 13:15
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May 20, 2020 13:16
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lolwhat Is this real? Because that's incredibly lovely.
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May 20, 2020 13:18
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inventory bloat is basically solved by the void bag that you can get in pre-hardmode and the luck stat is something that if you don’t care about it you’re not gonna notice it but if you go out of your way to have high luck you’re gonna deal slightly more damage on average and get rare drops a bit faster it’s like with npc happiness that sure you can still make an npc prison which was the most effective way before but now you’re incentivized to go out of your way and vary up
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May 20, 2020 13:25
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watho posted:inventory bloat is basically solved by the void bag that you can get in pre-hardmode and the luck stat is something that if you don’t care about it you’re not gonna notice it but if you go out of your way to have high luck you’re gonna deal slightly more damage on average and get rare drops a bit faster Not really in both cases. The luck penalty from torches maxes out at a 30% chance to halve the chances of benefical rolls, which can be substantial over time. The NPC happiness mechanic is a bit bugged right now, so one being near a disliked NPC jacks up prices to the maximum 150%, which is inevitable with old style housing. You also get stacking penalties for placing more than three NPCs next to each other, which gets real bad with prison-style housing. So, these mechanics aren't really that optional.
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May 20, 2020 13:32
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And frankly it's just kind of lovely when a developer decides to attach mechanical consequences to people "playing their game wrong."
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May 20, 2020 13:34
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I can't wait Can't wait for torch gate
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May 20, 2020 13:37
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a 30% chance to halve a beneficial roll and a 50% increase to prices are not that bad consequences if you’re extremely vehement about never changing how you play the game. im saying think if you actually think that having to use specific torches that are extremely easy to find and craft is a horrible game mechanic or if you’re just salty because you used normal torches up until now
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May 20, 2020 13:52
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Imo the mechanic would be fine if the game told you about it anywhere.
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May 20, 2020 13:53
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one of the big things people tell new players is that you should play it with the wiki open, there’s a lot of opaque poo poo in the game already. if you dislike the game not telling you about it’s game mechanics you probably don’t like terraria to begin with. figuring out how to access the dungeon, spawn EoW/BoC, and spawn wall of flesh without being told how to is neigh impossible and way less intuitive than “maybe i should use desert torch in desert and jungle torch in jungle”
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May 20, 2020 14:02
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It's a mechanic that just makes the game worse than it would be without it for me
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May 20, 2020 14:03
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Yeah, that's kind of the big one. I'm not great with probabilities, but a thirty percent chance to halve a roll works out to... what, a flat 15% reduction to everything you ever do, on average? That's substantial enough that there should at least be some kind of way to tell what is even going on and how much you are being affected by it. I could deal with it if there was, so I'm hoping tmodloader gets it poo poo together quickly so modders can start making UI mods that actually show you your luck value.watho posted:if you dislike the game not telling you about it’s game mechanics you probably don’t like terraria to begin with.
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May 20, 2020 14:04
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Andrast posted:It's a mechanic that just makes the game worse than it would be without it for me does it make the game worse or does it make your current situation worse? if you knew about it from the start would using the correct torches actually make your game experience worse? e:^ do you have a problem with any of the other opaque stuff in the game tho? genuine question
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May 20, 2020 14:05
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Infinity Gaia posted:It doesn't just affect drops. It affects every single possible random roll in the game, including your damage variability. So a player with bad torch feng shui is always rolling twice and getting the worse result when attacking. It's more that you need to not use normal torches in half the biomes in the game and it's not really explained anywhere. I'm fine with the buffs but the penalties for using standard torches is bizarre. And I'm annoyed that I now am gonna have to go replace all the normal torches I already put in the Desert/Corruption/Ice biomes. Thankfully it looks like those are the only ones that penalize for using normal torches. Ice for some weird reason has 4x the negative multiplier the other biomes that care do. axeil fucked around with this message at 14:15 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 14:10
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Guys, it's a little late for an April fool's joke. Guys? 
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May 20, 2020 14:14
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I'd be fine with debuffs as well for the non-standard torches as well like putting ice torches in desert regions or corruption torches outside corruption. It's just that standard torches shouldn't be affecting luck.
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