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I thought they had that quick release because he was supposed to fall a few feet from the ring to look like a goof but that was never brought up.
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May 21, 2020 12:00
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HOT! New Memes posted:I thought they had that quick release because he was supposed to fall a few feet from the ring to look like a goof but that was never brought up. That's what I had always heard as well.
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May 21, 2020 12:17
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The story I heard was the "bit" was supposed to be that he got lowered to the ring, then hilariously got "stuck", would flail around for a few seconds, then have the quick release to do a pratfall into the ring.
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May 21, 2020 13:01
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Holy poo poo - according to Martha on the WOR podcast, WWE sued the clip manufacturer after finding out they had $50M in insurance coverage. Martha had them dismissed from her lawsuit because she didn't believe they were at fault. They didn't sue the harness or rope manufacturers - just the one with the big policy.
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May 21, 2020 14:16
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Dango Bango posted:Holy poo poo - according to Martha on the WOR podcast, WWE sued the clip manufacturer after finding out they had $50M in insurance coverage. Martha had them dismissed from her lawsuit because she didn't believe they were at fault. A while ago there was a thread with the subheading "There is always more and it is always worse ". Feel like that applies to WWE.
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May 21, 2020 14:35
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I feel like this show has several seasons worth of content just by investigating shady poo poo that Vince McMahon did.
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May 21, 2020 16:01
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El Gallinero Gros posted:A while ago there was a thread with the subheading "There is always more and it is always worse ". that was the old free republic thread, in LF / d&d true then, true here
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May 21, 2020 16:16
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HOT! New Memes posted:I thought they had that quick release because he was supposed to fall a few feet from the ring to look like a goof but that was never brought up. Think about it this way: Owen's only previous rappelling stunt saw him never even have to unhook because he was being pulled straight back up to the ceiling. The desire for a quick release thus couldn't have anything to do with anything Owen did or didn't do.
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May 21, 2020 18:49
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Dr. Clockwork posted:I feel like this show has several seasons worth of content just by investigating shady poo poo that Vince McMahon did. Given the background and who's around to still talk about them, you have to assume Dynamite, Pillman, and Candido get episodes next season. Chyna merits an episode, but most everyone who could talk about her is under contract to Vince (Shawn, HHH, Road Dogg), or doesn't want to look bad (Waltman). Vader could be interesting, but I'm not sure that there's that much to say.
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May 21, 2020 19:27
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Yeah unless more whistleblowers come forward with some dirt, this kind of show gets held back in a lot of ways. Gotta “protect the business” after all.
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May 21, 2020 19:37
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davidbix posted:Semi-popular misconception: The desire for a quick release had nothing to do with Owen. It was about Vince being pissed off that it "took too long" to unscrew a locking carabiner; he had Steve Taylor ask their previous rigger (who refused every time on safety grounds) about using a quick release on every job he did. The pratfall being written in was just a byproduct of them finally finding a cheaper, less principled rigger who would use the quick release. Bix, wondering if you might know - is there any truth to Martha claiming the rigging company who originally refused offered to do it for like $3000 because they knew WWE would go with whoever would do it, putting Owen at risk?
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May 21, 2020 20:19
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WELL LADY I RESENT YOUR TONE gently caress you Vince. Red posted:I have to imagine Vince's response to tragedies is always "How could they do this to me?" The one I wasn't even aware of before NY64 was when Pillman died and they had a live interview with his widow on the very next Raw. As multiple people on the Internet have pointed out, it's really not a "We're so sorry for your loss" interview, but as you say a "How could he do this to me, Vince McMahon?" interview. gently caress you Vince.
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May 21, 2020 21:17
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What made that whole thing even more gross was the extreme close-up of Pillman's widow. I hope Vince dies violently.
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May 21, 2020 21:26
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I've been working my way through this season/series the last couple of weeks and for some god awful insane reason I decided to finish the second season today by watching the Benoit and Owen episodes back to back to back. I think that might have been one of the most self destructive choices I've made in awhile. That poo poo wrecked me, especially having lost my dad young. I don't know why I did this to myself. edit: Also I never knew this. Chris James 2 posted:Joe did the muscle buster and it went wrong and Kidd legit severely broke his neck gently caress the WWE so loving much. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 02:15 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 00:32
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It's really unfortunate what happened to Tyson Kidd and it's also really unfortunate that it happened TO Tyson Kidd. Claudio was a legit best in the world in his own right and if you'd ask him who the best in the world is, his genuine answer was frequently Tyson Kidd
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May 22, 2020 03:53
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgc3gaCPAjM Shame this scene got deleted but it didn't really fit into the story, so I get it. Never heard that D'Lo story before.
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May 22, 2020 04:28
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Dango Bango posted:Bix, wondering if you might know - is there any truth to Martha claiming the rigging company who originally refused offered to do it for like $3000 because they knew WWE would go with whoever would do it, putting Owen at risk? https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6820628-Owen-Hart-KCPD-File.html#document/p18 On 7-12-1999, at 1320 hours the reporting detective contacted Donna Maryanski, the attorney representing the AMSPEC stunt sewing company. She was asked the identity of the person her firm has hired as an expert concerning the civil action filed regarding the Hart case. She stated the person was Joe Branam, a resident of California and has worked with the WWF in the past. She stated it was her understanding that Branam has worked for the WWF for the past several years, at least the past five that she is aware of. She stated that Branam is a contract employee for the WWF as a rigger and is not sure if he also sets up stunts but believes so. She stated that she believes that Branam was originally contacted by the WWF to rig the stunt in Kansas City, but that the WWF had turned him down due to him apparently wanting too much money to complete the job. She believes that is when the WWF contacted and hired Bobby Talbert for the job. She stated that after Branam thought about it, he told his wife, who works for his company to re-contact the WWF and tell them he would do the job and for whatever they wanted to pay him. Maryanski stated that Branam reported that he was not re-contacted by the WWF and later found out the WWF had hired another person for the job. And from page 219 of Martha's book (which isn't in the Google Books preview, so no link): In May 1999, the WWF contacted Branam's company and asked for a quote on another stunt involving Owen in Orlando, Florida. The bid of $5,000, the same price charged for the identical stunt in St. Louis, was rejected with claims from Taylor that "it wasn't in the budget." Knowing McMahon's desire to use the snap shackle, combined with Owen's tremendous fear, Branam grew instantly concerned. He knew the industry was littered with marginal riggers in Orlando and was concerned the WWF would hire anyone who agreed to do it as long as it saved the company a few bucks. He instructed Beckman to call the WWF again, offering to reduce the cost by $2,000 as well as promising to take care of all shipping costs. Beckman told Taylor of Branam's concerns and that he was willing to discount the price to ensure the stunt was done without compromising Owen's safety. Taylor later called back and left a phone message saying the Orlando job had been canceled. He said Owen's stunt had been written out of the script but that he'd call “next time.” “There was no doubt in my mind that the reason the WWF didn't use our company and chose an unknown rigger was to save money and to get someone who would use the snap shackle like the WWF wanted," said Beckman in a sworn affidavit. "It was my experience in working with the WWF that they just wanted to go right in and do their stunts in a rushed manner. The WWF was also unprepared and very degrading to their performers." On his headset in St. Louis he recalled hearing production people mocking Owen, saying, "Look at this guy, he looks like an idiot." As Martha stressed to me when we talked last week, her book was HEAVILY lawyered before release. A book that WWE has never tried to refute the contents of in the ~18 years since its release.
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May 22, 2020 05:46
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So the police report says there was no video from WWE of the fall, but they were trying to track down an eBayer who supposedly shot the fall with a camcorder from the crowd and was trying to sell the footage So did WWE destroy their footage of the incident/hide it from police, or did it never exist?
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May 22, 2020 06:09
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Ad by Khad posted:It's really unfortunate what happened to Tyson Kidd and it's also really unfortunate that it happened TO Tyson Kidd. Claudio was a legit best in the world in his own right and if you'd ask him who the best in the world is, his genuine answer was frequently Tyson Kidd The Kidd/Cesaro team loving owned and was too beautiful for this world 
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May 22, 2020 06:33
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MorrisBae posted:So the police report says there was no video from WWE of the fall, but they were trying to track down an eBayer who supposedly shot the fall with a camcorder from the crowd and was trying to sell the footage If we trust Jim Ross's story, which I do, then he did see part of the fall on his monitor. And if you believe Kevin Kelly's account of the "do not view, duplicate, or destroy" section of the archive, there was definitely a tape. So...maybe they snowed the cops? Although I don't think it outright says there was no video as much as the only video the cops got did not include the fall? But there has to be a video. Maybe a dark one where you can't make much out, but I'd be shocked if there was nothing. Also, remember that even though this never picked up that much traction online, at least on English language sites, the Spanish announcers' mics were hot the whole time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wemNiGAdsA0 I should note that LordSmurf, the guy best-known for being behind the old NoMoreCoasters.com blank DVD-R resource site, swears that there was briefly a low res fan-shot video on shock sites and early P2P: http://www.tvpast.org/forum/unscripted/11121-owen-hart-wwf.html I've never known him to be a bullshitter. He even bought a SVHS VCR I was getting rid of once. (I forget why I had no more need for that particular VCR.) But...wouldn't SOMEONE else remember it being on a site like Ogrish? davidbix fucked around with this message at 06:54 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 06:51
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We know that WWE tapes literally every show for insurance purposes, right down to the random house shows that nobody outside the building sees. So it's more than a little suspicious that when it comes to Owen's fall, they're like "welp, sorry, couldn't get a good tape  "
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May 22, 2020 06:57
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A line that has really stuck with me recently is something Meltzer said on a recent audio show, along the lines of "everyone sees wrestlers as fake people so nobody cares what happens to them". I think it's partly the reason why the WWE is able to get away with everything they do and have done.
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May 22, 2020 07:20
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Benne posted:We know that WWE tapes literally every show for insurance purposes, right down to the random house shows that nobody outside the building sees. So it's more than a little suspicious that when it comes to Owen's fall, they're like "welp, sorry, couldn't get a good tape Seams posted:A line that has really stuck with me recently is something Meltzer said on a recent audio show, along the lines of "everyone sees wrestlers as fake people so nobody cares what happens to them". I think it's partly the reason why the WWE is able to get away with everything they do and have done.
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May 22, 2020 07:33
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davidbix posted:I don't think they were doing that for EVERY show yet in 1999. But I agree with your underlying point. Yeah, maybe they weren't taping every show in 1999. But like, Over the Edge '99 was a big PPV, with an Austin/Taker main event and Rock/HHH second from the top -- those were huge matches during the company's peak business period. All eyes and cameras were gonna be on the show. The idea that they just happen to not have tape during one specific moment on the PPV is downright incredulous to me.
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May 22, 2020 07:51
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I forgot that the arena was dark when it happened so the crowd could focus on the TitanTron - so yeah it might not have been useful even if they recorded it And I think JR said he was watching the promo on the monitor and he caught the tail end of Owen falling, but in real life and not on the monitor On Kazaa back in the day, anything labeled “Owen Hart shocking death.mpg” was *always* either Sid breaking his leg or Vic Grimes falling off a scaffold
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May 22, 2020 07:57
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Benne posted:Yeah, maybe they weren't taping every show in 1999. But like, Over the Edge '99 was a big PPV, with an Austin/Taker main event and Rock/HHH second from the top -- those were huge matches during the company's peak business period. All eyes and cameras were gonna be on the show. The idea that they just happen to not have tape during one specific moment on the PPV is downright incredulous to me. I think they started the “one camera to record every match, even at house shows” after Droz got paralyzed - that wasn’t until October 1999, 5 months after Owen’s accident
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May 22, 2020 07:59
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MorrisBae posted:Vic Grimes falling off a scaffold This is what I always saw as well. I was into tape trading back when vhs was a thing and people would have “best of” compilation and anyone saying theirs Owen footage on them would usually be Vic or a bunch of news footage. Now it’s just considered lost media along the likes of Steve Irwin and the Grizzly Man.
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May 22, 2020 13:24
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MorrisBae posted:I forgot that the arena was dark when it happened so the crowd could focus on the TitanTron - so yeah it might not have been useful even if they recorded it
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May 22, 2020 14:01
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I’m guessing they have video of him falling but not any video of the point at which he’s disconnected from the harness so it’s essentially meaningless footage.
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May 22, 2020 15:39
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sportsgenius86 posted:I’m guessing they have video of him falling but not any video of the point at which he’s disconnected from the harness so it’s essentially meaningless footage. You'd think though if police were able to view anything meaningful, they would have noted the time codes and the duration of the fall davidbix posted:I should note that LordSmurf, the guy best-known for being behind the old NoMoreCoasters.com blank DVD-R resource site, swears that there was briefly a low res fan-shot video on shock sites and early P2P: http://www.tvpast.org/forum/unscripted/11121-owen-hart-wwf.html Digital cameras and cell phones capable of shooting low-res video weren't even around in 1999, so it would have had to been someone with a camcorder (but why would you sneak a camcorder into a PPV broadcast?) Only way I could see it happening was if someone in WWE leaked it - a lot of athletes did carry camcorders around with them in that era so they could dick around, and it's possible one of them recorded the footage off a monitor while it was being replayed backstage for either the cops or the boys
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May 22, 2020 16:17
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That one police report would indicate he fell about as soon as they let him go from the rafters. The one with the testimony from the rigger.
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May 22, 2020 16:44
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Another possibility - I remember if celebrities were sitting ringside in that era, they were allowed to bring camcorders in Were any of the Kansas City Chiefs or any other local celebrities present at the event?
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May 22, 2020 17:39
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Here's a web archive of a page by a fan who posted a bunch of pictures from the event: http://web.archive.org/web/20080304022127/http://homepage.mac.com/knarley/owenhart/timeline/owentimeline.html I'm confused as to where Owen was bleeding from.
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May 22, 2020 18:23
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I hope they do a episode on earl hebner
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May 22, 2020 18:24
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Red posted:Here's a web archive of a page by a fan who posted a bunch of pictures from the event: Seems he gashed his right arm somewhere during all this.
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May 22, 2020 18:44
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Red posted:Here's a web archive of a page by a fan who posted a bunch of pictures from the event: Ok this picture confirms the lights aren't dimmed when the promo is on the Jumbotron, so there's no excuse for "the footage is too dark" - the pic was snapped *just* at the start of the video package, so I guess there's a chance they brought the lights down right after and brought them back up when Owen fell, but I doubt there was time On the Spanish Announce Team audio, the promo clip with Owen being interviewed by Kevin Kelly was playing between 0:17 and 0:22, and then Owen fell at 0:26 on the audio So this picture was taken anywhere from 9 seconds to 4 seconds before the fall: https://i.imgur.com/CLoErqs.jpg And this pic was taken, according to the photographer, 3 or 4 seconds after impact (possibly less): https://i.imgur.com/aHZkVo3.jpg
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May 22, 2020 18:53
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Honestly I don't find the Dark Side soundtrack very memorable but you can pre-order it if you want
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May 22, 2020 18:58
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MorrisBae posted:Digital cameras and cell phones capable of shooting low-res video weren't even around in 1999
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May 22, 2020 19:32
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Are there any other books about this situation than the Martha One? I know almost all wrestlers biographies have a chapter about this, but I'm looking for more something like Muchnicks Chris/Nancy
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May 22, 2020 20:41
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DeathChicken posted:Seems he gashed his right arm somewhere during all this.
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May 22, 2020 21:47
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