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Powered Descent posted:he talked about the acting gig he'd had before getting cast on Voyager: a one-second appearance in a Burger King commercial. He was wearing the paper hat and carrying a tray of food, and turned around with it to face the camera and say "At everyday low prices!" (A bunch of people in the audience went "whoa" as they suddenly remembered the commercial from that description.) God dammit why isn't this commercial on youtube?!!  I don't remember it at all. Powered Descent posted:Trayweather? Mucker? Legit lol'ed heartily, and boy did I need it. Thank you. 
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May 21, 2020 23:11
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This thread's fascination with Tuvix is fuckin weird. This is Star Trek where the needs of the many (2) outweigh the needs of the one. He was a transporter abomination created by accident and keeping him alive while a cure was available was the equivalent of murdering Tuvok and Neelix. Good riddance.
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May 21, 2020 23:33
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DrNutt posted:This thread's fascination with Tuvix is fuckin weird. This is Star Trek where the needs of the many (2) outweigh the needs of the one. He was a transporter abomination created by accident and keeping him alive while a cure was available was the equivalent of murdering Tuvok and Neelix. Good riddance. They were already dead Murdering him and Spock sacrificing himself for his loved ones (after shoving his katra into Bones) are not the same thing
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May 21, 2020 23:35
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You're all forgetting about the real victim here...the orchid.
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May 22, 2020 00:02
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Whatever about the victims. The real hero here is the transporter, for the fantastic sense of FASHION!
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May 22, 2020 00:22
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Allison Pregler did a good video about Tuvix a few days back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVY63nx74_U&t=0s
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May 22, 2020 01:34
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The injustice of Tuvix has nothing on what was done to Lindsay Ballard. 
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May 22, 2020 01:34
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More TOS- Catspaw- I'm really not sure why this episode exists. Apparently it was shot as a possible Halloween thing, which is just weird for Trek. There has not yet been another holiday-themed episode in the 50+ years since this show aired. It's just very bizarre and I'm not even sure how to describe it. It isn't until about 3/4 of the way into the episode where we find out what the actual plot is. Even for TOS the late episode reveal of the tiny pipe-cleaner aliens was pretty pathetic. I, Mudd- This (mostly comedic) episode actually holds up pretty well? It's now the 3rd episode where Kirk logics a computer(s) to death. The cast seem to be having a really good time in this one. I like this one better than the first Mudd appearance.
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May 22, 2020 01:49
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Tuvix is basically like if in that one episode where Kirk gets split into peaceful and violent versions of himself, each of the halves pontificated upon the existential nature of having to be rejoined. And then of course they're not going to make the rest of the show about twin captains who neither of which are going to to be any good at captaining, but by portraying the obvious answer as ambiguous, it'd be fertile ground for arguments.
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May 22, 2020 02:07
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SlothfulCobra posted:Tuvix is basically like if in that one episode where Kirk gets split into peaceful and violent versions of himself, each of the halves pontificated upon the existential nature of having to be rejoined. Nah, that would get in the way of the episode being the first of the three times that Kirk got to fistfight himself.
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May 22, 2020 02:15
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The thing I dug about the Kirk-split-into-two thing was that the 'evil' one was the only one capable of making decisions. I'm not sure why that stuck with me, since it made sense, but it did.
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May 22, 2020 02:49
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MisterBibs posted:The thing I dug about the Kirk-split-into-two thing was that the 'evil' one was the only one capable of making decisions. I'm not sure why that stuck with me, since it made sense, but it did. Evil will always triumph because good is dumb
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May 22, 2020 02:54
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SlothfulCobra posted:Tuvix is basically like if in that one episode where Kirk gets split into peaceful and violent versions of himself, each of the halves pontificated upon the existential nature of having to be rejoined. yeah this isn't farscape
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May 22, 2020 03:24
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Sash! posted:Evil will always triumph because good is dumb TOS is so grimdark and fascist
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May 22, 2020 03:24
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MisterBibs posted:The thing I dug about the Kirk-split-into-two thing was that the 'evil' one was the only one capable of making decisions. I'm not sure why that stuck with me, since it made sense, but it did. Drink-Mix Man posted:TOS is so grimdark and fascist Sash! posted:Evil will always triumph because good is dumb This is all somewhat undercut by the mirror universe episode, where again there's a good Kirk and an evil Kirk, and good Kirk craftily navigates an extremely complicated situation while evil Kirk is a frothing lunatic who immediately gets himself thrown in the brig. I think it's important that we remember that in the episode where Kirk is split in two, both Kirk-halves are depicted as insufficient/incomplete people. Good Kirk is too soft for command, but evil Kirk has no impulse control. They're both pathetic and can't accomplish anything, and it's implied they'll both die unless they're reunited. It might not even be correct to call them "good" and "evil" so much as "superego" and "id." Todd McGowan has an interesting analysis of the episode, comparing it to interpretations of Hegel: left Hegelians embraced Hegel's dialectical conception of history while dismissing his love of religion and the state, while right Hegelians took the religion and the state while dismissing the dialectical conception of history. The result was that Hegel was split neatly into two halves, but like with Kirk, neither of those halves had all the elements to survive by itself. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 05:13 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 05:10
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The Bloop posted:They were already dead Well by the end of the episode they weren't dead so I dunno what to tell ya.
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May 22, 2020 05:12
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DrNutt posted:This thread's fascination with Tuvix is fuckin weird. This is Star Trek where the needs of the many (2) outweigh the needs of the one. He was a transporter abomination created by accident and keeping him alive while a cure was available was the equivalent of murdering Tuvok and Neelix. Good riddance. The point of "needs of the many..." was that Spock was heroic for volunteering his life for the good of others. It would've been quite a different movie if Bones had forced Spock into the irradiated chamber at phaser-point. If "Tuvix" had ended with Tuvix heroically allowing himself to be separated, making the sacrifice voluntarily as Spock did, it would've been totally forgettable. What makes it compelling is the question of whether Janeway has the right to force Tuvix to make such an immense sacrifice. At the end of the day, it's little more than "do the ends justify the means," but it's an interesting and emotionally compelling example and Janeway's utilitarian conclusion contrasts greatly with the idealistic moral inflexibilityy demonstrated by Kirk and (especially) Picard. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 05:23 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 05:16
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Civilized Fishbot posted:The point of "needs of the many..." was that Spock was heroic for volunteering his life for the good of others. It would've been quite a different movie if Bones had forced Spock into the irradiated chamber at phaser-point. Well Tuvix as a character sucked so I didn't find it all that compelling. But I guess that's Voyager for you.
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May 22, 2020 05:21
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DrNutt posted:Well Tuvix as a character sucked so I didn't find it all that compelling. But I guess that's Voyager for you. You don't even like the scene at the end, when he's pleading for someone to recognize his right to life? "Doesn't anyone see that this is wrong!?!" I thought it was very well-acted.
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May 22, 2020 05:25
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Civilized Fishbot posted:You don't even like the scene at the end, when he's pleading for someone to recognize his right to life? "Doesn't anyone see that this is wrong!?!" I thought it was very well-acted. It honestly just fell really flat for me, well acted or not, because most of the episode is spent with him (intentions be damned) creeping the gently caress out of his fellow crewmates. If he had been integrating more successfully and there was a more significant crew presence standing behind him and demanding at least a trial or a hearing I think it might have worked better. Also this is completely superficial and totally on me but the makeup design was so hideous that I was actually on board with having Neelix back at the end. 
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May 22, 2020 05:33
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They kinda tried the same thing in “Similitude” on Enterprise where Phlox quick-grows a clone of Trip to harvest his organs to save the real Trip and the clone starts hanging with the crew and forming real attachments and questioning why he has to die. But then Archer decides he has to die anyway because they’re on a mission and he’s a Hard Man making Hard Decisions. And, just like Tuvix, the episode accidentally reinforces the doomed character’s argument that uh yeah this is loving monstrous and wrong and the captain is the unambiguous villain of the story.
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May 22, 2020 05:39
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I wonder whether the Tuvix situation would have had more impact if they didn't restore Neelix and Tuvok at the end, and instead we had Tuvix for several episodes before the opportunity to separate him arose. The episode implied that a substantial amount of time took place across the episode, but it doesn't feel like it since it takes place over 45 minutes.
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May 22, 2020 05:41
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Big Mean Jerk posted:They kinda tried the same thing in “Similitude” on Enterprise where Phlox quick-grows a clone of Trip to harvest his organs to save the real Trip and the clone starts hanging with the crew and forming real attachments and questioning why he has to die. But then Archer decides he has to die anyway because they’re on a mission and he’s a Hard Man making Hard Decisions. And, just like Tuvix, the episode accidentally reinforces the doomed character’s argument that uh yeah this is loving monstrous and wrong and the captain is the unambiguous villain of the story. And generally I think that episode works a lot better because it was hosed up from the beginning and something that Phlox and Archer put in motion, not some whacky equipment malfunction accident. It also works better imo because they weren't going to kill off two other crew members to keep fake Trip alive, so there actually was a bit of tension in the outcome. (For instance NuTrip gets right to life, Phlox develops method to slow his development to normal human speed and he takes over, not unlike the things that happened to Harry Kim or Chief O'Brien).
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May 22, 2020 05:44
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Zaroff posted:I wonder whether the Tuvix situation would have had more impact if they didn't restore Neelix and Tuvok at the end, and instead we had Tuvix for several episodes before the opportunity to separate him arose. The episode implied that a substantial amount of time took place across the episode, but it doesn't feel like it since it takes place over 45 minutes. This is what competent show-runners or writers like the ones working on Farscape would have done, which is why a one-off character like Chiana became a regular on the show (seriously, she was originally only going to be in three episodes.) but as we've established Tunicate posted:yeah this isn't farscape
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May 22, 2020 05:46
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Civilized Fishbot posted:This is all somewhat undercut by the mirror universe episode, where again there's a good Kirk and an evil Kirk, and good Kirk craftily navigates an extremely complicated situation while evil Kirk is a frothing lunatic who immediately gets himself thrown in the brig. Yes, thank you! I can't believe people miss this so much. There was never a "good" and "evil" Kirk, that's a misdirect the episode plays at first because that's how we all tend to interpret the aggressive, primal aspects of ourselves, as negative things to be suppressed. But those feelings are also the underpinnings of our loves and commitments and passions, and without them we'd have no drive or willpower to act on the things we learn and reason to be good. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 08:29 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 08:06
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A reverse Chiana would have been funny. Tuvix catching on and the actor doing Neelix suddenly out of a job.
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May 22, 2020 09:53
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thotsky posted:the actor doing Neelix suddenly out of a job. Just instantly becomes his Avenue 5 character
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May 22, 2020 15:31
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Is there a stated reason why they more or less wrote out Alexander for DS9? He doesn't show up often, but NextGen does a pretty job of bringing him when it feels like it would make sense. I feel like it would have been fun to add him to the Jake/Nog power duo.
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May 22, 2020 15:52
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Have you finished watching the series?
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May 22, 2020 16:02
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Well, the actor that played him in TNG (aside from the first appearance) left acting and went into music and later got into trouble with th law. They aged him up in DS9 (by saying Klingons mature faster) because having a minor playing a character with a lot prosthetic makeup limited their filming time quite a bit. So, I think their choices were basically ignore Alexander and only refer to him offscreen or do what they did to give the character some closure.
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May 22, 2020 16:08
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At the end of Tuvix they split them apart but instead of Tuvok and Neelix they get two Tuvixes who turn to Janeway and point and shout in unison "We are Fourvix"
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May 22, 2020 16:30
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Arglebargle III posted:Have you finished watching the series? It's just going through DS9, it seemed to be ignoring a lot of Worf's character progress on NextGen and Worf is probably the only character besides Picard who has a clear arc on NextGen.
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May 22, 2020 16:42
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John Wick of Dogs posted:At the end of Tuvix they split them apart but instead of Tuvok and Neelix they get two Tuvixes who turn to Janeway and point and shout in unison "We are Fourvix" Why can’t I stop giggling at this
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May 22, 2020 18:12
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My point is mainly that Star Trek has a lot of existential nightmare episodes with characters who come into being by accident and must be eliminated, or whose existence is parasitic upon other people, and whatnot, although it's mainly just a thinly veiled excuse to get an actor to show their acting chops by showing their range outside of their typical character. Although 'good' Kirk's indecisiveness reminds me of that book I read where people who have nonfunctioning emotional centers of their brains aren't wise sages of logic, they're incapable of making meaningless decisions because they're unable to arbitrarily choose one or the other when neither matters.
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May 23, 2020 00:56
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John Wick of Dogs posted:At the end of Tuvix they split them apart but instead of Tuvok and Neelix they get two Tuvixes who turn to Janeway and point and shout in unison "We are Fourvix" This legit killed me at work 
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May 23, 2020 01:09
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DrNutt posted:Well by the end of the episode they weren't dead so I dunno what to tell ya. It's a good episode of Voyager because it still causes these debates decades later. There are numerous different ways of looking at the situation that have been gone through over the franchise. What if it was a time travel reset button so that Tuvix never came into being? What if it was an entirely unconnected crew member whose life could be sacrificed to bring them back?
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May 23, 2020 01:55
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TV shows are just as TV showy as in the 90s but now the convention is everybody speaks in parables as opposed to everything reverting to the status quo at the end of the episode ?
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May 23, 2020 02:00
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Watching House of Quark and getting a kick out of Gowron and the High Council trying to read spreadsheets.
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May 23, 2020 09:51
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CubanMissile posted:Watching House of Quark and getting a kick out of Gowron and the High Council trying to read spreadsheets. Pivot tables are WITHOUT honor.
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May 23, 2020 10:05
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https://twitter.com/tobytobyjones/status/1260798561962176512 holy fuckin poo poo
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May 23, 2020 10:36
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