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Jose Oquendo posted:Is the success of The Joker partially responsible for WB green lighting the Snyder cut and apparently the directors cut of Suicide Squad? They promoted Walter Hamada (he did a bunch of horror movies at New Line) to oversee DC Films after Justice League did so terribly. Their films haven't all hit at the box office but I think they've all been pretty good and without a bunch of drama so maybe that's why.
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May 22, 2020 16:12
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And WB bet against Joker and ended up losing most of the profits to investors or something.
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May 22, 2020 16:13
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  Also, Snyder said he’s personally putting together the trailers for it. Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 16:51 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 16:30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JneQfHLo4M Found this video that did a good job explaining WTF happened to Justice League
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May 22, 2020 17:22
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Is the version of BvS that's going to be in HBO Max the extended edition?
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May 22, 2020 17:37
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Roth posted:Just finished, and I really enjoyed it. I guess my biggest problem with the movie is the fact that the action is completely decontextualized and presented as a fantasy metaphor that reveals nothing about the characters and only thinly aligns with the plot. I will try to elaborate. I think the most successful action films are those that reveal something about the character through the action. For an extremely easy example, look at the Matrix, which took the sort of gravity-defying Wushu wirework and used it to support the metaphor that the characters were hacking reality. There was a direct line there between this extremely thematic idea of "transcending reality" and the floaty kung fu. There was a direct line between "we're fighting Agents of the System" and literally punching identically-besuited Men In Black. Take the Running Man. The action here is a game show, but of course the game show is all rigged, it's all fake. The audience doesn't see the "real" action, it's filtered through the lense of the camera. But Ben Richards is so powerful and intelligent that even the Network (and by implication, the Government's) tricks can't work, and his personal individual victories against the rigged system inspire a literal revolution. (It's also extremely funny that the Captain America analogue of the movie refuses to fight him - "real America" supports Richards) The throughline between the action scenes and Sucker Punch is almost non-existent. I mean, there is a line - it's not an incoherent movie. But it's so tenuous; so thin. Ok it's time for the team to steal a map, so we'll have them...storm the trenches fighting steampunk Teutonic zombies in a faux WW1 to get a map? I mean yes, there are links there, but they are very circuitous or even nonexistent. One of the characters is always the "pilot" type, but how could piloting a jump-jetted steammech or an AC-130 possibly relate to that plan? How does that relate to her being a weak-willed simp who gives up her friends in the real world? I mean, we have seen that character in the Magnificent Seven, we know how to execute action with a weak character, and yet there's not an inkling of it. I will say that the action setups are nutso and executed well and I sincerely love them. Show me that clip of that AC-130 absolute deaking a fuckin' dragon and you've got my attention. The actresses move and fight well although I do not think each of them has enough of an individual "style". But the real failure is that lack of context. It's totally free-floating, nothing is revealed by the characters through the action, the scenes exist to be cool and once they are over we're back to the madhouse with a box checked off. And so with this sort of disassociation from the "real" narrative, the scenes ultimately become what people say Snyder is all the time - meaningless spectacle - because the two world of the movie (madhouse and fantasy) are so misaligned.
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May 22, 2020 17:39
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That's a good description of why you feel that way; I might echo some of the same feelings as to why I'm just so uninvolved into those action scenes.
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May 22, 2020 17:53
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I think for me I was into it because it reminded me of, like, b-tier PS2 action games. Ones that are more into having stylish action than being a strong narrative experience.
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May 22, 2020 17:56
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I have a soft spot for Sucker Punch because—in addition to it clearly having its heart in the right place—when I watched it and saw the fight against the robots on the train, I thought "this guy should make a Superman movie" and then he did.
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May 22, 2020 18:00
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Roth posted:Is the version of BvS that's going to be in HBO Max the extended edition? Hard to say. It went on HBO Now in November 2016 as the theatrical cut, but Sucker Punch Extended is on HBO Now right now.
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May 22, 2020 18:01
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Roth posted:I think for me I was into it because it reminded me of, like, b-tier PS2 action games. I mean I can kind of see that. There's a forgotten video game called Dead to Rights and the cutscenes in that game are basically Sucker Punch, but for John Woo Hong Kong Cop Action. You might enjoy it.
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May 22, 2020 18:02
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I mean I can kind of see that. There's a forgotten video game called Dead to Rights and the cutscenes in that game are basically Sucker Punch, but for John Woo Hong Kong Cop Action. You might enjoy it. I actually own a copy!
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May 22, 2020 18:04
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Dead to Rights owned
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May 22, 2020 18:05
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https://twitter.com/TheNiceCast_/status/1263869504192425985?s=19 He's started posting in color
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May 22, 2020 18:10
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John Wick of Dogs posted:https://twitter.com/TheNiceCast_/status/1263869504192425985?s=19
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May 22, 2020 18:24
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Mr. Apollo posted:
Omg we could actually get a better version than even the JL that would have been released before the tragedy struck Snyder's family I remember, before he left and it was reshot by a total hack, JL looked like it was still going to be heavily compromised by the studio's desire to appease the fan reaction to the previous 2 movies, just as Beavis itself was compromised by the reaction to Mos. Like that shot of the vagrant with the 'i tried' sign was always in there. We still may end up with that of course, I don't want to get my hopes up, but oh lordy the possibility!
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May 22, 2020 18:25
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In a stunning twist the Snyder cut mostly is about the I Tried-hobo and his daily misery, until Superman and the rest of the team randomly show up to give him 30 million dollars.
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May 22, 2020 19:20
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Grendels Dad posted:In a stunning twist the Snyder cut mostly is about the I Tried-hobo and his daily misery, until Superman and the rest of the team randomly show up to give him 30 million dollars. Ben Afflek is inexplicably replaced with RobPat
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May 22, 2020 19:41
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Grendels Dad posted:In a stunning twist the Snyder cut mostly is about the I Tried-hobo and his daily misery, until Superman and the rest of the team randomly show up to give him 30 million dollars. The Russian Family is replaced by the hobo assassins from john wick
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May 22, 2020 19:47
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MacheteZombie posted:The Russian Family is replaced by the hobo assassins from john wick They are then replaced by the hobo assassin from The Raid 2.
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May 22, 2020 19:48
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Injustice 2 came out around the same time as Justice League and any random fatality looks rendered better than the Steppenwolf death scene.
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May 22, 2020 19:56
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I wonder how much money they threw at Joss Whedon to take on such an obviously doomed job.
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May 22, 2020 20:00
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Picard was actually everything that people accuse Zack Snyder movies of being The pitched premise of Picard (what's basically in the teaser) is so much better than what that disappointment turned out to be.
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May 22, 2020 20:07
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I guess my biggest problem with the movie is the fact that the action is completely decontextualized and presented as a fantasy metaphor that reveals nothing about the characters and only thinly aligns with the plot. I will try to elaborate. There's a scene with Sweet Pea early on that's emblematic of the core theme reflected throughout film that contextualizes the elaborate fantasy action set pieces in a way that's not so tenuous/thin imo. It's when she's complaining about her performance being about a lobotomized patient to Madame Gorski; she suggests to change her stage dance to be something more "commercial" because the whole point of the show is to "turn people on" as she says. It's obvious Sweet Pea's frustratingly referring to the film's narrative layer that takes place in a mental institution being a joke, and that isn't what people want/paid to see. The action set pieces are super metatextual in that sense, and I think that's an interesting enough approach to justify all the hyperreal visualizations, giving them a bit of weight outside of them just being plot metaphors. Afterall, the use of different narrative layers being planes of reality that Snyder uses to tell a bulk of the film's story is what makes Sucker Punch unique. The questions Snyder raises by doing this is what do audiences really want to see? What are they expecting? Do they want to see these characters actually undergo sound-therapy in drab real time? Or do they want to see those same characters slay sci-fi orcs with machine guns and swords? Obviously Snyder knows the audience expects the latter, lol. And I thought that was a neat way to express this sentiment of audience expectation. When Sweet Pea criticizes Baby Doll's performance after seeing her dance for the first time, she says, "All that gyrating and moaning... a dance should be about more than titillation. Mine is personal, it says who I am. What the heck does yours say?" The insane action being representative of Baby Doll's dances is both hilarious and great in that sense, at least to me. It's easier to digest that narrative layer as Snyder's critique of the typical action you'd see from like a Whedon venture in that regard, and it also 100% owns imo because of how true it rings. [edit] grammar teagone fucked around with this message at 20:40 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 20:32
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Necrothatcher posted:I wonder how much money they threw at Joss Whedon to take on such an obviously doomed job. They absolutely did not think it was doomed. They thought that Whedon had fixed the movie because, like fools, they take what the loudest people on the Internet say at face value (remember Snakes on a Plane?) BvS was too long, and too gloomy, and Superman didn't smile enough, and they fixed all that so wham pow good movie and big money time! And by a certain metric that was true, it does have a better audience rating than BvS by any metric. But for whatever reason people couldn't be bothered to show up and it didn't have any legs, turns out a sloppy Marvel pastiche is not a guaranteed money-maker. People do not actually know what they want. and the Snyder Cut is by no means a guaranteed win. It could be a big ole mess itself. But at least it will be a mess in that Zack Snyder way, where you will see the interesting idea he was going for and how he fell short, instead of a garbage frankenmovie stuffed with rushed and phoned-in filler. teagone posted:When Sweet Pea criticizes Baby Doll's performance after seeing her dance for the first time, she says, "All that gyrating and moaning... a dance should be about more than titillation. Mine is personal, it says who I am. What the heck does yours say?" The insane action being representative of Baby Doll's dances is both hilarious and great in that sense, at least to me. It's easier to digest that narrative layer as Snyder's critique of the typical action you'd see from like Whedon venture in that regard, and it also 100% owns imo because of how true it rings. I 100% get what you're saying and even agree with the critique. It actually is a successful critique. But it's also supposed to be an action movie as well. The reason that the "sucker punch" doesn't land is that the feint doesn't work. The action part is simply decontextualized too much to be successful IMO. And the dialogue, while snappy and revelatory, is not the load-bearing part of the film. Snyder set himself a difficult task, I think: make a movie that is a satisfying action movie that then at the end hits you with the revelation that you've been participating in a gross exploitative patriarchal tableau. Incredibly hard to pull that off, I don't think he succeeds. I give him major props for trying though. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 20:40 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 20:36
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:like fools, they take what the loudest people on the Internet say at face value (remember Snakes on a Plane?) I feel like this is a pretty bad comparison, honestly, because without the meme stuff, Snakes on a Plane would be barely above Asylum tier and would have probably been forgotten by everybody. People only remember that movie because of Samuel L. Jackson going "I HAVE HAD IT WITH THESE MOTHER loving SNAKES ON THIS MOTHER loving PLANE."
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May 22, 2020 20:40
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:I feel like this is a pretty bad comparison, honestly, because without the meme stuff, Snakes on a Plane would be barely above Asylum tier and would have probably been forgotten by everybody. People only remember that movie because of Samuel L. Jackson going "I HAVE HAD IT WITH THESE MOTHER loving SNAKES ON THIS MOTHER loving PLANE." Funnily enough, this was added in post because literally everyone said "Sam Jackson had better say 'I have had it with these motherfucking snakes on this motherfucking plane' at some point" and the producers were like "oh poo poo!" and added that scene.
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May 22, 2020 20:41
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Funnily enough, this was added in post because literally everyone said "Sam Jackson had better say 'I have had it with these motherfucking snakes on this motherfucking plane' at some point" and the producers were like "oh poo poo!" and added that scene. Yeah, it's basically the opposite of stuff like JL and Rise of Skywalker: what they originally had planned was mediocre at best, and the internet came up with the wide bulk of the stuff about the movie that actually owned. e: My point is, really, that listening to the internet is unpredictable rather than always smart or always dumb. Sometimes the internet has a point, like with Snakes on a Plane, and listening to them turns a movie that would've sucked into something kind of special. Sometimes they're instead a bunch of brainwormed lunatics that want to destroy something good. You really have to take it case by case and consider both what they're suggesting, specifically, and the quality of what you're already making. WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 20:48 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 20:44
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Funnily enough, this was added in post because literally everyone said "Sam Jackson had better say 'I have had it with these motherfucking snakes on this motherfucking plane' at some point" and the producers were like "oh poo poo!" and added that scene. Another QCS success story
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May 22, 2020 20:46
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:Yeah, it's basically the opposite of stuff like JL and Rise of Skywalker: what they originally had planned was mediocre at best, and the internet came up with the wide bulk of the stuff about the movie that actually owned. As much as I love TLJ, I think most of what the internet came up with for the sequels really did end up being much cooler than what Disney churned out. Finn leading a First Order revolt as an ex-Stormtrooper turned Jedi is a super interesting plot thread to develop from. What a shame. Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Snyder set himself a difficult task, I think: make a movie that is a satisfying action movie that then at the end hits you with the revelation that you've been participating in a gross exploitative patriarchal tableau. Incredibly hard to pull that off, I don't think he succeeds. I give him major props for trying though. Yeah, I don't disagree with this. Snyder tried real hard, but the film muddies up its message a fair bit, and is absolutely clunky in its delivery. Still, it works well enough for me and I appreciate the film since it tried something wildly different.
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May 22, 2020 20:52
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Online is a land of contrasts.
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May 22, 2020 20:55
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Detective No. 27 posted:It's tough to pinpoint what WB's strategy is because they've been so inconsistent. These companies produce better films when they don't know what they're doing, because as soon as they do they just narrow it down to an inoffensive formula.
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May 22, 2020 21:02
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:e: My point is, really, that listening to the internet is unpredictable rather than always smart or always dumb. Oh I agree with that. I honestly think that Joker made a billion because it's a power fantasy. People keep focusing on the dark tone and audiences saying it's a-ok to make dark superhero movies but the fact of the matter is that power fantasies are easy to like. For all it's grim grittiness Joker is the story of a pissed off little guy who punishes the people who've aggrieved him and triggers an uprising. It's a power fantasy. Whereas Snyder's Superman movies are largely what a burden it is to be Superman.
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May 22, 2020 21:23
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I think that's rather glib. Joker's protagonist is miserable from start to finish, and seems happiest when he's finally confined to a mental asylum where he has no power to affect anything. He's not even really the titular Joker, which is a growing unrest that he simply exemplifies for a moment when he kills a few drunken assailants who were incidentally rich.Bongo Bill posted:Online is a land of contrasts. I'm a Snyder fan and glad that his cut will be released. On the other hand, this all plays into nerdism, the new religion where Capital is God and online fandom is how we beseech Him for aid. What's galling is that the same people who thought this was a good thing when it was, like, buying tickets to Lady Ghostbusters to support feminism, are now trying to identify Joker and #ReleaseTheSnyderCut with the alt-right. I'm deeply ambivalent about the whole thing. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 21:40 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 21:37
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I don't think it's glib, but I do think it's reductive. I'll try to elaborate. The misery is necessary for the fantasy. The catharsis of that misery is what gives it power. It's a nihilistic power fantasy because of course he's caught and going to the big house afterwards, but that's part of the fantasy. Having the guts to flame out and let that heat burn your enemies alive. The traditional Superman is, on the surface, a much nicer power fantasy. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 21:46 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 21:43
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Part of the deal with Sucker Punch is that it tries to implicate the audience. Baby Doll's dances are meant to distract various bad guys so her friends can steal stuff they need to escape, so when you're meant to enjoy the action scenes while the bad guys enjoy Baby Doll's dances you're syllogistically entangled with their gross, exploitative behavior. My problem is that the action scenes aren't actually enjoyable enough to make me feel titillated, so it all comes off as a cheap trick. I wonder if not using the action scenes and just showing off the dances would have worked better, but then the movie actually would be exploiting the actresses. (I think there's one dance we actually do get to see, but it's been a while since I've seen the movie.)
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May 22, 2020 21:49
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pospysyl posted:Part of the deal with Sucker Punch is that it tries to implicate the audience. Baby Doll's dances are meant to distract various bad guys so her friends can steal stuff they need to escape, so when you're meant to enjoy the action scenes while the bad guys enjoy Baby Doll's dances you're syllogistically entangled with their gross, exploitative behavior. My problem is that the action scenes aren't actually enjoyable enough to make me feel titillated, so it all comes off as a cheap trick. I wonder if not using the action scenes and just showing off the dances would have worked better, but then the movie actually would be exploiting the actresses. (I think there's one dance we actually do get to see, but it's been a while since I've seen the movie.) We see snippets of all their dances during the musical number in the extended cut.
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May 22, 2020 21:51
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Oh man, I’m glad Cirian Hinds in coming back for this. He’s one my favorite actors. I remember when The Sum of All Fears came out I heard an NPR interview with him about how he took Russian courses so that he could properly deliver all his lines in actual Russian rather than just with a goofy accent.
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May 22, 2020 21:54
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https://twitter.com/HarryJLennix/status/1263920905849147392 [edit] I wonder if Snyder also pitched a Flashpoint live-action series to the WB execs as an eventual follow up to whatever they end up doing with JL because I refuse to believe that he didn't just cast Lauren Cohen and Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Martha and Thomas Wayne for no reason. teagone fucked around with this message at 22:07 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 22:02
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:These companies produce better films when they don't know what they're doing, because as soon as they do they just narrow it down to an inoffensive formula. Definitely.
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May 22, 2020 22:11
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