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Two Owls posted:Did Asimov do that short story about a world where everyone had forgotten how to do arithmetic, and when it's rediscovered the government goes "Excellent, now we can put cheap humans in our guided missiles instead of expensive computers". yes, that one is hilarious https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feeling_of_Power quote:In the distant future, humans live in a computer-aided society and have forgotten the fundamentals of mathematics, including even the rudimentary skill of counting.
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May 19, 2020 12:52
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Rutibex posted:every famous sci-fi writers final form is the sex pervert. i assume that all scifi writers have it within them, but only the famous ones have enough money to make it work See, I'm going to contest this, and I think that this is the best reason for having an Asimov thread: would "every famous sci-fi writers final form is the sex pervert" be something we'd seen so far if Asimov himself hadn't become the ur-sci-fi writer? I don't think this requires a metaphysical explanation. I think it is a result of historical and social forces, and that Asimov himself is a good place to center the conversation. It's not just that Asimov personally chased women out of the industry with vigor, it's that he both shaped the institutions around him and became deified in sci-fi as a community. He was called out, regularly, in his own time and to his own face for degrading the women around him, and the sci-fi community reshaped themselves to be exceptionally misogynistic in response. This reverberates to our own time, and while we can point to the failing reactionary "sad puppies" as evidence that the past is past, it is irresponsible to be smug about how far we've come if we're also going to say that sex pests are just a natural part of the sci-fi environment.
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May 19, 2020 18:09
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Tulip posted:See, I'm going to contest this, and I think that this is the best reason for having an Asimov thread: would "every famous sci-fi writers final form is the sex pervert" be something we'd seen so far if Asimov himself hadn't become the ur-sci-fi writer? I don't think this requires a metaphysical explanation. I think it is a result of historical and social forces, and that Asimov himself is a good place to center the conversation. That is entirely fair, and I was more saying that as a joke than an endorsement. I don't expect Cory Doctorow to end up the same way as Asimov, he exists in a very different society. Though I do think there is something to be said for sci-fi writers becoming more "sexually interesting" than the average person. You don't become a sci-fi writer without having a bit of an unconventional personality, and a lot of creativity. That doesn't necessarily mean abusive towards women, it could just mean weird kinks.
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May 19, 2020 20:18
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It's also one of those things where--by the nature of the job-- you end up expressing and codifying your kinks in a way that other sex pests in business, finance, or politics won't.
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May 19, 2020 20:23
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Rutibex posted:That is entirely fair, and I was more saying that as a joke than an endorsement. I don't expect Cory Doctorow to end up the same way as Asimov, he exists in a very different society. Though I do think there is something to be said for sci-fi writers becoming more "sexually interesting" than the average person. You don't become a sci-fi writer without having a bit of an unconventional personality, and a lot of creativity. Yeah fair enough. I just don't think it's something to throw our hands up and give up over, since it is in fact something we can approach. Maybe two years ago I read a bunch of Harlan Ellison stories and wow they got absurdly, irritatingly horny after he got established. Rutibex posted:yes, that one is hilarious v lol
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May 20, 2020 02:30
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mind the walrus posted:Yuck I'm getting shades of Frank Herbert there. Do modern writers still do that? Now that we live in a post-scarcity world for porn and getting your fetishes catered to, do writers still feel the need to interject in their works? I'm thinking here of Patrick Rothfuss (who wrote the Cool Sexy Guy That Everyone Admires
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May 20, 2020 05:01
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 https://deadline.com/2020/03/foundation-tv-series-suspends-production-ireland-coronavirus-pandemic-1202882010/ quote:‘Foundation’ TV Series Suspends Production In Ireland Amid Coronavirus Pandemic
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May 20, 2020 21:49
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Aw that's a shame that's a show that actually sounds like it could be really good... mostly because I have a really hard time imagining how even the hackiest producers could engineer NuTrek-style garbage into it.
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May 20, 2020 21:56
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mind the walrus posted:Aw that's a shame that's a show that actually sounds like it could be really good... mostly because I have a really hard time imagining how even the hackiest producers could engineer NuTrek-style garbage into it. I bet you they will find a way.
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May 20, 2020 22:02
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mind the walrus posted:Aw that's a shame that's a show that actually sounds like it could be really good... mostly because I have a really hard time imagining how even the hackiest producers could engineer NuTrek-style garbage into it. there is a lot of room to insert big flashy action sequences, so i donno about that. there are a lot of huge epic space battles in Foundation that asimov just sort of glosses over. i feel like a Foundation TV series would focus a bit more on those, and expand it a bit
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May 20, 2020 22:03
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Tighclops posted:I bet you they will find a way. "I see... a girl... and she's the key to all of this. And she's young, and hot, and badass. She kicks dude's asses. But she feels bad sometimes. So it's complex... Rutibex posted:there is a lot of room to insert big flashy action sequences, so i donno about that. there are a lot of huge epic space battles in Foundation that asimov just sort of glosses over. i feel like a Foundation TV series would focus a bit more on those, and expand it a bit My memory of the novels is super fuzzy, I read them during a time in my life where I was binging huge quantities of stuff and retaining maybe 30% at best. Isn't most of the space battle stuff always happening far off from where the central narrative is? I'm sure a dedicated hack could find a way to insert the characters into it, but my recollection was that the entire point of Foundation was about all the eggheads deep on the sidelines.
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May 20, 2020 22:13
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mind the walrus posted:"I see... a girl... and she's the key to all of this. And she's young, and hot, and badass. She kicks dude's asses. But she feels bad sometimes. So it's complex... I read through them last year so they are fresh in my memory. You are quite correct, almost all of the space battles are throw away lines. The main characters are never involved in any kind of big military action. But that stuff is happening, and it would be so easy to invent a character "General So&So" and cut to their adventures periodically. They will find an excuse to show us some Atomic Blasters. The only question is how much.
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May 20, 2020 22:25
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Rutibex posted:Oh, I dont remember reading that one! I have a short story compilation to read. Might also have been thinking about The Light of Other Days, they did the same idea. Interesting book.
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May 21, 2020 00:01
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Y'know how Verhoeven read like 5 pages of Starship Troopers, said "this is dumb lol" and then made a movie that had only the surface trappings of Starship Troopers while undermining all the right-wing shitlord opinions Heinlein had? They can make a Foundation movie that's just like a Snyder movie.
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May 21, 2020 13:49
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Tulip posted:Y'know how Verhoeven read like 5 pages of Starship Troopers, said "this is dumb lol" and then made a movie that had only the surface trappings of Starship Troopers while undermining all the right-wing shitlord opinions Heinlein had? They can make a Foundation movie that's just like a Snyder movie. that is what I assume studio executives see when they look at the Foundation license, budget Star Wars. just focus on the space battles, make the galactic emperor a little more sinister, and turn the Second Foundation into samurai Jedis. bing bang boom, you got a Netflix original series!
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May 21, 2020 17:00
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Tulip posted:Y'know how Verhoeven read like 5 pages of Starship Troopers, said "this is dumb lol" and then made a movie that had only the surface trappings of Starship Troopers while undermining all the right-wing shitlord opinions Heinlein had? They can make a Foundation movie that's just like a Snyder movie. Lmao arrrrrgghhhhhh
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May 21, 2020 17:29
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I think about The Mule more than almost any other fictional character. I think he captures something about the way history works that is kind of otherwise inexplicable.
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May 21, 2020 17:52
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The Mule is gonna be "cool" and blatantly fascistic and we're gonna have to listen to CHUDs masturbate about it aren't we?
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May 21, 2020 20:02
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Rutibex posted:yes, that one is hilarious I first encountered "The Feeling of Power" when I checked out the short story collection Nine Tomorrows from my school library. They're all hits.
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May 21, 2020 23:30
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As a giant dork it always irked me that the FTL mechanics were never hinted at in the foundation series.
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May 22, 2020 00:54
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Tnuctip posted:As a giant dork it always irked me that the FTL mechanics were never hinted at in the foundation series. it works like Battlestar Galactica Midjack posted:I first encountered "The Feeling of Power" when I checked out the short story collection Nine Tomorrows from my school library. They're all hits. this is one of the few physical books that i own. i have had it since childhood. "All the Troubles of the World" feels very prescient right now, considering what we are doing with neural networks Rutibex fucked around with this message at 01:13 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 01:11
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mind the walrus posted:The Mule is gonna be "cool" and blatantly fascistic and we're gonna have to listen to CHUDs masturbate about it aren't we? The comparison has been made dozens of times already, including in these very forums in an extremely funny post that I can never find.
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May 22, 2020 21:09
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the mule interfering with psychohistory is half the reason i pursued a history degree. i was extremely interested in what forces shape history, and the conflict between The Mule and The Seldon Plan mirrors a big question in history (and I guess philosophy in general). Do "great men" create history? or does history create great men? did Caesar by virtue of his special quality change the fate of the roman republic or did historical forces place Caesar into a fortunate position (a position that any man could have occupied, if history lacked Caesar in particular)? this is not an answered question obviously, though most historians i encountered don't like the idea of "great men" shaping history (mostly because they are marxists, and therefor believe in historical materialism  ). i think it might hold water, that particular people actually can shape history. but there is no way to test this obviously. psychohistory can't be developed without 10,000 years of demographic and statistical data provided by the galactic library
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May 22, 2020 21:29
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Based purely on my layman's "bullshitting for bullshit's sake" understanding, it seems like historical materialism creates the soil in which great men can sprout who are then able to influence history and it stands to reason that one could theoretically recognize those conditions with enough processing power and guess where a Ceasar or a Mule would be more likely to rise. The stories of great men though, they tend to have a bit of a same-ness to them don't they? That's the limiting factor, that even the best man is still just one man, and will inevitably run into issues of loyalty and logistics relative to the scale of the tools available to him and either be deposed and/or fail to ensure a proper legacy. Even their biggest changes to the course of nations and history ultimately turn into echos within a generation or two and the gears that great men set into motion eventually fall prey to other variables. Of course The Mule himself will be presented on any show as that Liberal idea of fascistic where "hey he's making the trains run on time" until "oh no it turns out he has border camps" or some similarly milquetoast horseshit.
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May 22, 2020 21:48
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IUG posted:I'm re-reading the Foundation Trilogy (just finished Foundation) as I picked it up as a hard cover at a B&N. Anything outside the triology isn't worth reading, right? Foundation's Edge and Foundation and Earth have good stuff in them, but that good stuff is the speculation of possible future Earths and future humans rather than the plot or the characters. They're maybe most comparable with Dougal Dixon's "After Man" series in that regard. Designated male space-ship pilot navy veterin protagonist Golan Trevize is utterly unremarkable as a character, but his growing connection with the gravitic space ship is intriguing in a conceptual sense — that First Foundation is heading almost imperceptibly toward a cyborg transhumanism. Likewise, super-psychic-kung fu monk Stor Gendibal and placid Sura Novi show that the end of Second Foundation ideology is an Eloi and Morlock human divergence, and the whole Gaia brouhaha is roughly "what if everyone had powers like the Mule (but they could still have kids)?" And Foundation and Earth picks that up by showing how societies from Asimov's other series might fair after N thousand years. The two books are definitely hampered by the assumption that the reader would be familiar with Asimov's other work (especially Earth) but if you are then they're an fascinating look at how things might have progressed. It's also worth stating that the ending is really darkly humorous if read in light of That Thou Art Mindful of Him.
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May 24, 2020 02:15
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Schwarzwald posted:but that good stuff is the speculation of possible future Earths and future humans rather than the plot or the characters. Asimovs signature move
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May 24, 2020 13:19
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Yeah, it's like, his name is on the front cover. You can't be too disappointed when you end up with a story that reads like he wrote it. Prelude and Forward just suck, though.
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May 24, 2020 23:55
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Schwarzwald posted:Yeah, it's like, his name is on the front cover. You can't be too disappointed when you end up with a story that reads like he wrote it. are you telling me you are not excited to hear hari seldon reminisce about his days as a Helcion Twister? shameful
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May 25, 2020 00:18
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I am unwilling to call a book bad if it has a fungus cult.
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May 25, 2020 01:23
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I read the first few Foundation books and Caves of Steel and whatever its follow is called in Jr High and Highschool, and I'd love to read them again but I remember the hardest part about them is the language used, it feels very mid 20th century. Always something I find hard to get through when reading older sci-fi.
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May 25, 2020 04:13
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twistedmentat posted:I read the first few Foundation books and Caves of Steel and whatever its follow is called in Jr High and Highschool, and I'd love to read them again but I remember the hardest part about them is the language used, it feels very mid 20th century. Always something I find hard to get through when reading older sci-fi. The foundation series is kind of jarring this way as the beginning and end were written in the late 80s but the middle books were written in the 50s
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May 25, 2020 05:04
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Rutibex posted:The foundation series is kind of jarring this way as the beginning and end were written in the late 80s but the middle books were written in the 50s Yea, I am pretty sure I remember a character calling one Partner at one point. I am hoping there is a nice collection omnibus when the series comes out.
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May 25, 2020 07:55
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Speleothing posted:Was it Asimov who wrote the story about the time-viewing machine? Way late to the party, but yes, yes he did. It was a story called "The Dead Past." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dead_Past And mark me down as someone else who feel Asimov's best work was his short stories. Even his most famous works, the Foundation and Robots books, began as short stories welded into a larger works.
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Jun 9, 2020 14:01
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While filming Ghostbusters, Dan Aykroyd met Asimov, who he admired. Asimov yelled at Aykroyd for blocking his commute with all the filming. Also, The Machine That Won The War is a pretty accurate vision of big tech today.
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Jun 11, 2020 08:04
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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:While filming Ghostbusters, Dan Aykroyd met Asimov, who he admired. Asimov yelled at Aykroyd for blocking his commute with all the filming. oh awesome I have not read that one. I appreciate that you can get a full understanding of an issac asimov short story from the wikipedia summary quote:Three influential leaders of the human race meet in the aftermath of a successful war against the Denebians. Discussing how the vast and powerful Multivac computer was a decisive factor in the war, each of the men admits that in fact, he falsified his part of the decision process because he felt that the situation was too complex to follow normal procedures. yeah sounds about right. also a rare story of asimovs that includes aliens. he hated using aliens for some reason
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Jun 11, 2020 12:42
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Rutibex posted:oh awesome I have not read that one. I appreciate that you can get a full understanding of an issac asimov short story from the wikipedia summary Campbell insisted that any aliens used be inferior to humans. Asimov found that distasteful and so tended not to use them.
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Jun 11, 2020 18:05
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jng2058 posted:Way late to the party, but yes, yes he did. It was a story called "The Dead Past." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dead_Past Same here. Asimov's characters just aren't interesting enough for full-length novels. And when he tries to include/force/synthesize characterization, it feels clunky. I liked the Lije Bailey novels the first time, but on re-reading them...take out or condense every bluff, mistake, blunder, and outright complete misjudgement by Bailey and you have a novella. With superfluous drama. Same with "Nightfall." The original story was succinct, intriguing, and ended perfectly,just as the horror began. The novel(ization) added people, places, pages of worldbuilding, and a whole chapter AFTER the story's "end." None of them were necessary, and the whole thing felt padded out. Asimov's stories work on the principle of "this is a cool idea, let me play around/explore/riff on it." Makes for great short stories, but hard to expand. I think "The Bicentennial Man" is the only one of his longer works I still like, and that was a culmination of all his robot stories.
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Jun 11, 2020 22:18
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Rutibex posted:oh awesome I have not read that one. I appreciate that you can get a full understanding of an issac asimov short story from the wikipedia summary I was about to mention Childhoods End but then I remembered that's Clarke.
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Jun 11, 2020 23:38
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A teaser for Foundation TV series just dropped: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgbPSA94Rqg Seems like just the way I imagined it would be after TV adaptation. Lot's of explosions and people running away from stuff (including monsters?).
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Jun 23, 2020 07:00
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That is the perfect example of "If it had the Star Trek name attached, I would have hated it, but it doesn't so I'm actually pretty ok with it." If it were up to me, I'd make it more of a series about contrasting The Foundation's immediate day to day struggles with their more grandiose psychohistory plans, something where escaping political enemies and dealing with wildlife/hostile environments makes for good thematic layers for the each self-contained episode, y'know not an "epic" but more of a domestic piece... ...but I'm getting way more of a "We wish we were Game of Thrones/Dune" vibe that I'm apprehensive about, mostly because David Goyer has never been that good a writer. Production design is nice though.
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Jun 23, 2020 15:15
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