|
Transistor Rhythm posted:What’s the actual implication of this? Could be a lot of things, really. Could be as little as to reflect that Black Bolt and Vulcan had similar experiences after the War of Kings. Could be as much as "This Vulcan is a clone with implanted memories, some of which came from Black Bolt." Could be something in the middle, or something else entirely. That's why it's interesting...because it's fun to speculate about...but not decisive because we can't know what it actually means until Hickman gets around to explaining it to us.
|
#
?
May 23, 2020 22:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 21:29 |
|
|
Yeah, or it could be that Vulcan survived in Black Bolt. It was never really clarified how Black Bolt survived. So is there a Vulcan running around in or as Black Bolt? Did they resurrect Vulcan with another one out there, or is the one at Krakoa this the same one that came back from the Fault? He says that he has that dream every night as well.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2020 22:49
|
|
|
To expand on that a bit, War of Kings was a crossover from a decade ago that had a war between kings, primary among them then-Kree ruler Black Bolt and then-Shi'ar Emperor Vulcan. The crossover ends with both of them fighting on a doomsday device that eventually exploded, ripping a hole in reality and apparently killing both Black Bolt and Vulcan. In Hickman's FF run a couple of years later Black Bolt is just kind of... back, without a ton of explanation beyond "he woke up in that page that was tweeted, and then got rescued by Lockjaw." Vulcan meanwhile remained dead (or I guess hypothetically floating in the void) until he reappeared in Hickman's X-Men #1, where it isn't really discussed if he survived/escaped the Fault or got resurrected or what. The scene of Vulcan floating in the void is from a recurring 'bad dream' he has, so it's not entirely clear what happened to Vulcan, and before production was suspended the book was right in the middle of another storyline with the Kree and Shi'ar fighting. Maybe there are two Vulcans (one in the Void, one in resurrected on Krakoa) with some weird shared memories. Maybe there's just one Vulcan who escaped the void and ended up on Krakoa but doesn't remember how. I assume the parallel pages are largely just a fun Easter Egg, but overall it's also part of a build-up to what I assume is a reveal of some sort?
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2020 22:59
|
|
|
I never considered that lovely Vulcan might still be out there, and this one is a more innocent back up.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2020 23:05
|
|
|
I really hope there aren't two Vulcans. I like the idea that, To quote myself:Adder Moray posted:He had a traumatic experience, came home, found his brothers ready to welcome him with open arms, despite everything, and now spends half his time being a member of the family and half his time blasted out of his mind with his old team.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2020 07:49
|
|
|
I realize I'm not a Summers brother but Vulcan staged a coup and then had Havok imprisoned and tortured for a couple of years and spent his time torturting/mocking him about how much mutants suck while he was blazing a path of genocidal imperialism across the galaxy, that feels like something that's a little hard to hug out off-panel. EDIT: He murdered his dad too, still not sure how he came back to life? But the whole spitting on their dad and murdering him in front of Havok is also possibly a sore spot. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 07:59 on May 24, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 24, 2020 07:56
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:I realize I'm not a Summers brother but Vulcan staged a coup and then had Havok imprisoned and tortured for a couple of years and spent his time torturting/mocking him about how much mutants suck while he was blazing a path of genocidal imperialism across the galaxy, that feels like something that's a little hard to hug out off-panel. I'm just gonna go ahead and point at Apocalypse standing in the corner over there and shrug.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2020 08:57
|
|
|
Vulcan as he existed was such a miserable character as to be unworkable, so I don't mind a general reset of his personality if we get a viable character out of it.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2020 09:02
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:I realize I'm not a Summers brother but Vulcan staged a coup and then had Havok imprisoned and tortured for a couple of years and spent his time torturting/mocking him about how much mutants suck while he was blazing a path of genocidal imperialism across the galaxy, that feels like something that's a little hard to hug out off-panel. Oh, you and your notion of human laws and forgiveness!
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2020 12:54
|
|
|
https://youtu.be/pQrb_ZhIgJs Claremont on the Cartoonist Kayfabe channel. Haven't watched yet but this is my favorite comics podcast/channel right now.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2020 15:55
|
|
|
That guys shirt rules. I’d wear that.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2020 16:56
|
|
|
Adder Moray posted:I'm just gonna go ahead and point at Apocalypse standing in the corner over there and shrug. Dawgstar posted:Oh, you and your notion of human laws and forgiveness! But the first time we see Vulcan in Hickman's X-Men he's grilling food for the Summers family and the Starjammers. The last time we see Vulcan before Hickman's X-Men he's not just being a mad genocidal emperor, which speaking of Apocalypse is kind of a different scale of foolish-human-morality evil in that Apocalypse is at least motivated by some sort of Survival of the Fittest and keeps his wars to one planet generally. He was specifically motivated by spite for the very people who he's having dinner with. He deliberately murdered Corsair, captured Havok and the rest of the Starjammers and tortured them for weeks while gloating about how he killed his dad and is going to crush the universe and go to Earth and kill Scott and Jean and everyone his brother ever cared about, sent kill-squads across the galaxy to try to murder Rachel Summers, sent someone to suicide bomb a wedding to try to kill Havok/Rachel/the Starjammers after they escaped, ordered a kill squad to murder Lilandra and succeeded (the same kill squad that was sent to Earth and killed all of the surviving members of the Grey family that weren't Jean or Rachel) and just was just generally a Mad Emperor who casually murdered tons of Shi'ar and Kree people too. I'm not saying Hickman is ignoring this, he's explicitly not ignoring this given the build so far, but it's fair to ask both why the folks at the dinner at X-Men #1 would welcome Vulcan back with open arms or frankly why Vulcan would want to be at the dinner party. X-Men #9 also ends with the X-Men rocketing off to the exact area where he was committing all of those war crimes (and also the general area where he originally 'died') so I am sure that this is part of the story and is going to be addressed, my comment wasn't criticizing the story on the page, it was more questioning the idea that even within the Krakoa For All Mutants built in the story that "He had a traumatic experience, came home, found his brothers ready to welcome him with open arms, despite everything" is really tenable. And yes, there are lots of mutants that have done lots of bad things over the decades and still are on Krakoa. Most of them are being looked upon with more suspicion than Vulcan, and if you pick a name out of a hat (Magento, Mystique, Apocalypse) they've had hundreds of comics they're in where their overall characterization has swung between Tragically Flawed Anti-Hero and Cackling Genocidal Monster. Vulcan first appeared in 2006, started his Cackling Genocidal Monster run immediately afterwards, and then "died" less than three years later. His only story (outside of Deadly Genesis flashbacks) has been as a homicidal/genocidal/patricidal/would-be-fratricidal monster, which is a story that Hickman has already directly referenced in a way he isn't directly referencing "remember when I crucified you on the side of the Empire State Building, Charles? Twice? Well, water under the bridge."
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2020 17:15
|
|
|
For the record I don't actually disagree with you - there's a lot of stuff that gets swept under the rug on Krakoa with some genuinely horrendous people bopping around like it's nothing.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2020 18:03
|
|
|
There's also the feral children thing
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2020 21:24
|
|
|
I think this is one more piece of evidence towards "There's something rotten in the state of Krakoa" theory.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2020 22:29
|
|
|
you'd have thought there would have been more tension in even setting up the gate on Chandrilar considering it now puts their former evil emperor just a skip away from the throneworld. by the way, go visit your daughter Chuck, you deadbeat
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2020 22:58
|
|
|
That the X-Men are acting weird about a lot of things is...kinda piecemeal at this point. Either they're all brainwashed cultists, soulless husks, or Hickman's never gonna address it, whatever. That Kallark sees Vulcan and doesn't immediately lose 500% of his poo poo was honestly way more bonkers in that issue.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 00:51
|
|
|
'whats that charles, you want us to go live on the island that nearly ate us and killed the secret x-men team you mindwiped everyone's memories of?'
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 02:41
|
|
|
Don't worry, He's Good NowTM
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 02:42
|
|
|
Alaois posted:Don't worry, He's Good NowTM I mean to be fair this is genuinely true for like 75% of X-Men characters.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 03:49
|
|
|
I'm willing to give Hickman a lot of leeway on things like Vulcan since one of the explicit goals of Dawn of X seems to be to un-gently caress certain legacy X-men characters who got rendered virtually unusable thanks to lovely deaths and/or years of cumulative bad storytelling. Speaking of which; has Warren Worthington shown up on Krakoa yet?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 04:08
|
|
|
'So you left me as a completely amnesiac weirdo despite having a complete backup of my brain why?' 'It was really really funny'
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 04:10
|
|
|
Warren is on the cover of the first Empyre:X-Men book, and he was on the raid on the Mastermold in space in House of X where everyone died. He had his Archangel powers and look on the raid.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 04:14
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:EDIT: He murdered his dad too, still not sure how he came back to life? But the whole spitting on their dad and murdering him in front of Havok is also possibly a sore spot. IIRC, Hepzibah shot him up with the techno-organic virus to bring him back. It was a plot point in Greg Rucka's Cyclops mini that Corsair still wasn't in the best of health and was using unspecified pills to keep the infection in check.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 07:08
|
|
|
Synthbuttrange posted:'whats that charles, you want us to go live on the island that nearly ate us and killed the secret x-men team you mindwiped everyone's memories of?' Considering they were Moira's students first, I think Hickman's going to be revisiting Deadly Genesis in some capacity.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 11:27
|
|
|
Yvonmukluk posted:Considering they were Moira's students first, I think Hickman's going to be revisiting Deadly Genesis in some capacity. Wait, what? Did I miss that in DoX?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 17:36
|
|
|
Sandwolf posted:Wait, what? Did I miss that in DoX? That's not in HoXPoX, I assumed that was something from Deadly Genesis, which I've never read.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 17:41
|
|
|
Yeah, the story of Deadly Genesis is basically how Xavier's original team gets taken in by Krakoa, then he 'borrows' Moira's team of kids, they also get taken/killed, then he recruits the All-New, All-Different X-Men to rescue both (just his team).
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 18:13
|
|
|
Are Xavier and Magneto the only ones so far to be shown to know the truth about Moira?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 18:22
|
|
|
I haven't been able to read HoX/PoX and have just been following along vicariously through you guys. One day I plan to read it (but kids and no time and stuff). One thing that is confusing to me about Moira is that she "died" in the late 90s and is now retconned to be this major player. But has she shown up alive again the books? Is taking an active role in the current plot or is she just being referred to in absentee? I don't get it.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 19:32
|
|
|
Cocks Cable posted:I haven't been able to read HoX/PoX and have just been following along vicariously through you guys. One day I plan to read it (but kids and no time and stuff). One thing that is confusing to me about Moira is that she "died" in the late 90s and is now retconned to be this major player. But has she shown up alive again the books? Is taking an active role in the current plot or is she just being referred to in absentee? I don't get it. It's the big thing in HoXPoX so we probably shouldn't spoil it too much.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 19:35
|
|
|
Cocks Cable posted:I haven't been able to read HoX/PoX and have just been following along vicariously through you guys. One day I plan to read it (but kids and no time and stuff). One thing that is confusing to me about Moira is that she "died" in the late 90s and is now retconned to be this major player. But has she shown up alive again the books? Is taking an active role in the current plot or is she just being referred to in absentee? I don't get it. Marvel Unlimited, all those books are up there now and the kids gotta sleep sometime, right?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2020 22:49
|
|
|
Spent 4 hours hanging out with Leah Williams on zoom Saturday night and she swore me to secrecy on a lot of stuff but X-Factor looks good.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 03:12
|
|
|
danbanana posted:https://youtu.be/pQrb_ZhIgJs It took 30 minutes (mostly due to a boring retelling about him doing the SNL comic) for him to poo poo on some current X-Book!
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 15:44
|
|
|
Claremont admits he doesn't even read the mutant books by other people, so it's really just his "high level" opinion based on hearsay.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 16:22
|
|
|
wielder posted:Claremont admits he doesn't even read the mutant books by other people, so it's really just his "high level" opinion based on hearsay. At C2E2 he was apparently poo poo-talking HoXPoX openly. And here he mentions opening an unnamed book where he "created 2/3 of the characters" and reading half of it. Dude is still opening books- at least now- to form an opinion. It's not that I don't believe he "doesn't read" X-books anymore. I think it's more that he's not actively reading monthly. I don't think it's a controversial thing to say that his run will forever help define those characters but that his way of telling their stories isn't the only way. It's weird to hear someone not fully understand that...
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 17:18
|
|
|
danbanana posted:At C2E2 he was apparently poo poo-talking HoXPoX openly. And here he mentions opening an unnamed book where he "created 2/3 of the characters" and reading half of it. Dude is still opening books- at least now- to form an opinion. It's not that I don't believe he "doesn't read" X-books anymore. I think it's more that he's not actively reading monthly. Regardless of how much credit Chris Claremont deserves, which nobody can ever take away from him, other people can and will write the characters. He should accept that. I mean, making a throwaway reference to "reading half of it" without a lot of specifics (and what's the particular "it" involved? House of X #1, the collected edition of HOX/POX or something else entirely?) seems closer to the equivalent of browsing through a magazine at the store, being turned off by some of the ideas or dialogue on the page and then putting it down. He has also gone on the record about not caring for modern X-titles before, so I can't entirely imagine him doing a good faith read at this point. Ironically, I think we all know that the current status quo isn't going to last forever and there will be reveals in due time, even if it's not exactly like Claremont's Krakoa idea (but, who knows, maybe it could have parallels).
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 20:05
|
|
|
Cloks posted:Spent 4 hours hanging out with Leah Williams on zoom Saturday night and she swore me to secrecy on a lot of stuff but X-Factor looks good. Did you mention that one cool as heck Magik costume?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 20:32
|
|
|
Didn't know X-Factor was a thing again. Any decent outlines out there?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 21:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 21:29 |
|
|
Chris Claremont gave comics so much with his X-Men run. He revived and redefined a dying franchise, and everything from that run is so iconic that it effectively changed comics as a whole forever. Claremont's X-Men is a landmark and he should always be respected and credited for that. However, it's also been like thirty years since he's written a comic that wasn't either mediocre or brain-searingly awful so I'm not sure I care about what 2020 Claremont thinks about modern comics at all.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 22:27
|
|
