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I don't quite see the logic behind the 2nd trade, but that was a good twist.
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May 27, 2020 01:16
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Keiji was definitely the Sage at the beginning and he gave Sara someone else's Keymaster as if it was his. And he finished the round as the Keymaster so he outplayed everyone there. Imagine if Nao was the original Keymaster. Seeing her role change to Commoner and then to Sacrifice without tokens to trade it away would be devastating.
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May 27, 2020 02:26
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I really need to know if trades are allowed during the main game. Suo can actually win here if trades are allowed and he's allied with both girls. They can actually guarantee at least Keiji dies by trading first Q-taro's sage to one of the trio, (for a sacrifice) and then Keiji's keymaster to a different one of the three. Everyone would know it's safe to vote for one of the three of them, but have no way of knowing which one. So they would have to vote for Keiji. If Q-Taro saved himself by trading the sacrifice to the only person he's certain can't trade back---Gin---we'd actually get the theoretical situation where the "closest ally" and "younger boy" both die.
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May 27, 2020 03:48
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Veryslightlymad posted:I really need to know if trades are allowed during the main game. Well, going by events as laid out, part of why we can eliminate people from having performed Trade X is because they were with other people. Because in order to actually set up a trade, you have to physically go to one of the Ring-Up Boxes and insert your tokens. And nobody's mentioned a conspicuous Ring-Up Box hanging around the trial ground, nor do I feel like people would generally let someone run off to one if there was.
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May 27, 2020 03:56
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I don't think trades are likely at this point either. Some questions: - Keiji started with the Sage, so did he have someone else's tablet, or can trade initiators swap any pair of role cards? - Who actually gave Q-Taro the Sacrifice in Trade 2? - Why is Keiji unconcerned about Trade 5? - Will the 24 hour retrial make an appearance in this Main Game? (If Sou were to "lose" here, this'd be one way to get him to stick around for Chapter Three.) - Did Nao manage to swipe Reko's coins? If Keiji had any other helpers, it'd be Alice. Alice revealed to Keiji that he killed the real Sou Hiyori at the end of Chapter 1. Given that he wasn't feeling too happy due to Reko's death, it is possible that he was also accepted becoming the Sacrifice in Trade 5. If only it were so simple though. Given how short the discussion has been so far, there's room for another twist before the voting begins. I don't see this ending so neatly.
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May 27, 2020 04:55
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I know this is kind of a "NO poo poo" thing to say, but this part of the game (and of course, the version we played in Chapter 1 Part 2) feels like a Mafia game.
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May 27, 2020 06:40
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I think the pun is intentional, too.
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May 27, 2020 07:02
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Veryslightlymad posted:I really need to know if trades are allowed during the main game. I think they'd have mentioned a vote booth if that was the case. Gotta stuff those tokens into something!
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May 27, 2020 09:51
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With Sou mentioning hacking card rules I'm concerned that people may not have the cards they think they do.
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May 27, 2020 12:59
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He may have lied to Sara back in her room:HydroSphere posted:
But he notably did not lie during the trial. HydroSphere posted:
Also, as sage, Keiji knew Sara had to be either a sacrifice or a commoner. He had her pegged for commoner by her reactionshe lost her poo poo later when getting the sacrifice. Given the hallucinations, Keiji knew Sara would not be well put-together if she had gotten it (plus the odds were low). He confirms it after the trade, too, so he knows whether he dumped commoner or sacrifice on the original keymaster. edit: I condensed down the quotes to get to the relevant parts, cutting out reactions and other minor comments. edit2: Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:With Sou mentioning hacking card rules I'm concerned that people may not have the cards they think they do. About a minute later, the 5th trade happened, and Sara lost her Sacrifice. If I were to guess, he removed the "sacrifice dies if not the majority vote" part from the sacrifice card, and then took it back from Sara with his remaining 50 tokens. That would give him 2 votes, and if group of assholes vote him to death, he gets to escape with the BFF of his choice instead. hey girl you up fucked around with this message at 18:02 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 17:47
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Sara, you're...
I-I haven't confirmed anything yet!
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I want the speculation that this all is someone's grief processing re-enactment to be true, as all the other stories I've seen of that (Liar Game and As The Death God Dictates) have handled it pretty badly and my hope would be YTTD does it better.
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May 27, 2020 21:57
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hey girl you up posted:He said, "All I might do now [due to time constraints]... is hack the role card data..." I'm half-expecting it to turn out that he has the Sacrifice card, someone else bites the bullet and dies, then Gashu says "Hang on, who has the Sacrifice?" and when Sou laughs and explains what he did, Gashu just shoots him dead because the rules state that he's responsible for making sure the game runs correctly. Either that, or someone realized that Reko was one of the choices for swapping cards, and gave her the Sacrifice.
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May 27, 2020 23:36
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Gashu should just shoot everybody and make Safalin win the contest.
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May 27, 2020 23:42
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What if trade five was Gashu taking the sacrifice away, and that's the infraction Miley was talking about?
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May 27, 2020 23:52
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Out of curiosity, are the events proceeding mostly the same on the Reko Lives path, with Reko claiming Commoner like Alice does now?
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May 28, 2020 00:13
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Randalor posted:Either that, or someone realized that Reko was one of the choices for swapping cards, and gave her the Sacrifice. Oh yeah! Why is Reko's picture up there in the trading chart?
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May 28, 2020 00:17
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Veryslightlymad posted:What if trade five was Gashu taking the sacrifice away, and that's the infraction Miley was talking about? There were nine votes, meaning the Sacrifice's double-vote was in play.
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May 28, 2020 00:22
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Tenebrais posted:There were nine votes, meaning the Sacrifice's double-vote was in play. I didn't say he took it out of play, but I definitely worded it badly. I mean, what if no player made the trade?
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May 28, 2020 00:24
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Goon Boots posted:Oh yeah! Why is Reko's picture up there in the trading chart? Laziness, probably. Since either Alice or Reko could be here, the developer just made a single graphic with both. If it has any story implication I'll be shocked.
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May 28, 2020 00:41
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Eh, fair enough. I mean, they still have Joe on the frame for questioning people. Wait, why haven't we been allowed to slip into full insanity and ask Joe his thoughts on the matter?
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May 28, 2020 01:33
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In a twist of UI-becoming-mechanic, the dilemma is solved by trading the Sacrifice to the dead Reko/Alice.
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May 28, 2020 02:31
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NeoRonTheNeuron posted:- Why is Keiji unconcerned about Trade 5? I think this is because they've proven that Sou is a commoner, and therefore safe to vote for. Either Kanna or Nao is the Sacrifice, and in general they're much more likable than Sou, so it probably seems like an easy decision to make. Can't vote for Keiji, don't want to vote for Kanna/Nao, Sou is safe, vote Sou. Of course, we're early enough that there are definitely going to be shenanigans - especially since we still don't know Gashu's infraction - so it's not going to end so simply. But I think that's Keiji's logic.
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May 28, 2020 09:39
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I think Keiji should have been concerned; Trade 5 could have made Sou the Sacrifice. His actions have been consistent with that role. Other than ties with the Keymaster, he only has to worry about drawing votes from everyone else, and he's making lots of enemies. By trying to "reveal" that Keiji is the Sacrifice and that he's got a final two deal with Sara, Sou opens himself up as a viable voting target. Then, he tries to push for Nao and later Kanna as victims. All this does is make himself a juicier target with Keiji, Sara, Nao, and Kanna gunning for him. Sou is rightly shocked by the 4th trade reveal, but what actually happened doesn't affect his strategy as Sacrifice. If anything, his Commoner claim is more likely to be overlooked, and he's still positioned as the prime voting target.
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May 28, 2020 10:18
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  (And so... his clairvoyance let him see who had the Keymaster from the beginning, too! Which is why, in the first trade, he could make me and the person with the Keymaster trade! But... if he did that...)   "Nao...? "Something's not right!" We should discuss this a little more...!! "Stop it... Aren't you a candidate? You won't have to get picked...! "I'm afraid, too!! But I just get a weird feeling...!!  "You're exactly right. There are still mysteries remaining. In the fifth trade... Why did someone trade for the Sacrifice I had? And the other party was a Commoner... This isn't a problem we can ignore!  If by any chance we pick the Sacrifice... We're done for, y'know... Keiji...?   No... We can't do that, Keiji!! As long as we have time... We should seek the truth!! .......... "Let's do it!! We'll discuss the roles of the four who're in the final vote!  "There's someone who moved Sara's Sacrifice via the fifth trade!  "Is the loner really a Commoner, meow? Should we believe that, woof...? S'alright! Sou was convinced the whole time that Sara traded away the Sacrifice. "In other words, Kanna or Nao... Which of them would have the Sacrifice? "I don't believe it...! Keiji and Q-taro are lying...!! (The first card I had was Commoner. And Keiji was the Sage. I was completely fooled...)  (Keiji traded someone's Keymaster with my Commoner... To think that the power of the Sage let you know the Keymaster even before the Main Game... Did Keiji do this just to earn my trust...?) (It happened when we were in Safalin's doll room, looking for Ranger's chip... Keiji took custody of all Q-taro's remaining tokens and used them to trade their cards. I don't know what the intent there was... But it ended up trapping Sou.)Extract statement from Alice. Gnnngh... If Keiji Shinogi is the Keymaster, the Sacrifice should be Sou, Kanna or Nao, yes?! If Sou Hiyori's unrest is genuine... Was it Kanna Kizuchi...?Extract statement from Nao. Is the policeman really the Keymaster?! Isn't there something strange here...?! Is there any possibility that his Keymaster was sent somewhere else at some point?! Then... is that possibility zero?!Extract statement from Gin. "Is the loner really a Commoner, meow? Should we believe that, woof...? What if it's all the loner lying, woof? Well...  Could it be... He's actually an accomplice with bucket girl and putting on an act, meow?!Extract statement from Keiji. Kanna or Nao... Which of them would have the Sacrifice? ...It's just painful to think it over anymore. Extract statement from Sou. "I don't believe it...! Keiji and Q-taro are lying...!! Dammit...!! Dammit...!! (Sou isn't seeming very persuasive at all...)Extract statement from Q-taro. Sou was convinced the whole time that Sara traded away the Sacrifice. That's to say, Sou fell for Keiji's trick! The location of the Sacrifice, or any other card... He didn't know one lick 'bout the truth!!  But I kept it on me at all times to avoid just that!! Kept it tucked beneath my clothes! Sou didn't have a chance to do tomfoolery! He's a Commoner!! (His tablet, huh...)Show tablet to Q-taro. Music stops.  "Q-taro, you're saying you had your tablet on you at all times, yes...? "Yep! Take a look, it's right here. "And when you woke up... where was it? "Hm...? On the table in the Last Supper Room... "On the table...?!  (As I thought... That tablet Q-taro has now is a spare.) "This tablet I picked up... was lying near you when you were passed out. "What'd you say?! "I would assume this is Q-taro's original tablet... "It's because Sou took the tablet from Q-taro! "Wha...?! "But they're locked by fingerprints, woof!! "Sure, but while near him, he could bypass that by simply pressing the fainted Q-taro's finger to it...Music stops.  "...And so we arrive at an outrageous truth. "W-Whaddya mean by that...? "Depending on when Sou looked at the tablet... "Whaaaaa?! "The worst time for it would be after the fourth trade. "That's when Q-taro had the Sage and I had the Keymaster. "If he saw the tablet then, he could use Q-taro's Sage power to also know I was the Keymaster... "So... has Sou jus' been acting fooled?! "..........  "Sou...!! "Not good... Now there's the possibility that Sou has the Sacrifice... "It's no good! We shouldn't vote for Sou Hiyori!! Guess not... You can vote for Kanna or Miss Nao, whichever you like. Why you...!!  ".......... "...Ooogh...Music stops. "Well then... Let's resume the discussion, guys.  "We gotta find the one with the least chance of having the Sacrifice!! "Sou Hiyori must be avoided at all costs! For we don't know what he's thinking...!! "But... between bucket girl and big sis Nao... Is there any real difference, woof...? "You'd need a certain amount of tokens to take the Sacrifice from Sara in the fifth trade... (Err... Keiji confessed to being the Keymaster, and Q-taro the Sage... Those two don't seem like they're lying... And Sou, caught by their trap, let it slip that he was a Commoner, but... If he snuck a look at the tablet after the fourth trade, it could have all been an act...)Extract statement from Alice. "Sou Hiyori must be avoided at all costs! For we don't know what he's thinking...!! We just have to choose now...! Between Nao and Kanna...!!Extract statement from Q-taro. "We gotta find the one with the least chance of having the Sacrifice!! But I 'unno the aim of the one who did the trade... What possibilities are there?!Extract statement from Keiji. "You'd need a certain amount of tokens to take the Sacrifice from Sara in the fifth trade... Extract statement from Gin. "But... between bucket girl and big sis Nao... Is there any real difference, woof...? All I can think of is tokens, meow. Bucket girl had a lot, and big sis Nao only had a little, woof. What do we even do now, meow...? Myaaaa... Tokens...Conflict Gin against Keiji. Music stops.  "Surely, she couldn't have been the one to take the Sacrifice from Sara. "Then... is Nao the one with the least likelihood...? "W... Wait, please... "This... isn't right... "B... Big sis Naooo... ".......... "Please...! Have another discussion!! "You're right, we can't end this discussion. "Y-You...! What're you saying?! I just remembered something.  "Miss Sara, you know it too, don't you? "By stealing tokens... from Reko's body...! "...I knew you could do it. "Big sis Nao wouldn't do such a thing, meow...!! (But it's true... When I went to check the body, the tokens were already gone. And... Nao was closely inspecting the Room of Lies.) "Nah... It ain't just Nao who could've done it!! "Couldn't any of us've gotten those tokens?! "In other words, everyone has the potential to possess the Sacrifice. "Then that last action is going to be the key... "As in...  Ahaha. Hope you can find the Sacrifice... "We have to determine based on Sou, Kanna, and Nao's actions at the time of the fifth trade. "I was sitting on the stairs, thinking back on everything that had happened... "I was on the laptop in the Winner's Room the whole time... Will you believe that? "Kanna... wasn't really doing anything... Just wandering absentmindedly... "Did anybody see what the three were doin'?! "I was moving rubble with Keiji Shinogi... I didn't see what those three were up to...! "I was searching all by myself to see if there were any other exits, meow!Extract statement from Alice. "I was moving rubble with Keiji Shinogi... I didn't see what those three were up to...! I rested for not a second while moving that debris. All I can prove is Keiji Shinogi's alibi.Extract statement from Nao. "I was sitting on the stairs, thinking back on everything that had happened... The hope of escape had vanished... I couldn't even stand up... Everything I'm saying is true... Sara... please, save me...Extract statement from Gin. "I was searching all by myself to see if there were any other exits, meow! I didn't see those three, meow... Sorry, woof. Come to think of it, didn't you tell me you found something while searching? Meow..? Yeah... What..? But it wouldn't even make calls... It was useless for escape, meow.Extract statement from Sou. "I was on the laptop in the Winner's Room the whole time... Will you believe that? There was also a Ring-Up Box right in front of me. Ahaha... What do you think, Miss Sara? (I can't take Sou's claims seriously...!)Extract statement from Q-taro. "Did anybody see what the three were doin'?! If only I hadn't passed out..!Extract statement from Keiji. "We have to determine based on Sou, Kanna, and Nao's actions at the time of the fifth trade. Your friendly policeman was shoving aside rubble... I don't know a thing.Extract statement from Kanna. "Kanna... wasn't really doing anything... Just wandering absentmindedly... Are you hiding something, Kanna? Eh...? Come to think of it, I feel like you were the only one I didn't see around then. Really, where were you? I... I mean... (Something she dropped...?)Conflict Gin against Kanna. Music stops. "Kanna... Was it a smartphone you lost? "How did you know...?! (Sure enough...) "Gin, tell me, where did you pick that up? "It was a ways down the stairs, meow. "Sigh, sheesh... She must've just dropped it while we were all climbing the stairs, surely? "...That's not it. ".......... "Think back for me. When we were climbing the stairs, Sou and Kanna were walking in front. If she had dropped the phone then... everyone should have noticed. ".......... "In short, this was only dropped after we all climbed up to the exit. Kanna dropped it while descending the stairs...! "What did she descend for...? Why did you try to hide this, Kanna? "Because... "Big sis Sara! There's a message on this phone, meow!! "Right... That's what Kanna's sister... (...This...!!) "P... Please give that back... "Hold on...! Did you write this, Kanna?! "But Kanna's big sister is already dead... "Could it be the "sister" in this message is... "...No way...  (Is that right, Kanna...? Your... "sister" here...) "Is... me...? "Yes... Ehehe... I know, it's strange... But Kanna... to Kanna, you're... "...And so you wanted to save Sara that much... ...Yes...  ".......... "To avoid using the Ring-Up Box in the Winner's Room, you returned to the third floor to trade. "H... Hey now, you're talking like Kanna's... "Are you sayin'... she took the Sacrifice to protect Sara...?! (...That's... so...) It's inconceivable... No, I don't want to conceive of it... "Ahaha... What worthless reasoning. "That's all a load of...
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May 28, 2020 22:30
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Spoilering because I'm replying soon after the post for once It really sucks for Kanna, but the whole game sucks for everyone so I have to applaud Kanna for pulling it off... Then I remember the message was written by Sou who could easily advise and guide her actions. That might get him killed if the truth didn't out but he was in a good position to nudge things and seems happy to play the odds (see being happy to set himself up as an obvious choice on the assumption he could flip everything on it's head enough to turn distrust into a shield.) Unless his hack of the role card was like 'The Sacrifice saves two other people' or 'Picks two people to survive' if they win. Although the meta part of me still has a "But the easiest way to write this is Alice/Reko is the sacrifice because then timelines converge."
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May 28, 2020 23:04
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Kanna... 
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May 28, 2020 23:43
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Sou's an infuriating bastard, but he's kind of caught between a rock and a hard place with Kanna being the Sacrifice. Kanna being voted for is a pretty risky situation for Soushe can only pick one person to get out with her and she went so far as to take on the Sacrifice to save Sara, so there's a chance he wouldn't be able to convince her to choose him over Sara. But if Kanna doesn't get voted for, he's the next-best candidate (it's between him and Nao and that's not good odds); if by some stroke of luck everyone votes for Nao, Kanna will be dead anyway and he'll have no allies for the next round of the game. The first thing he did in the trial was to declare himself and Kanna the most likely candidates for the Sacrifice, so it seems likely he decided to take his chances with Kanna rather than the next game. It's interesting that he pushed for excluding Sara from the final vote, though. Nobody was suspicious of her before he brought up her expression during the escape, so it's likely she would have been excluded anyway. This was before Q-taro started lying about sending the Sacrifice to Sara, so if anything, it would probably have been more beneficial for him to hint at Q-taro being suspicious to up the chance of him making it into the final vote. He could still make the same points about excluding Sara from the vote once Q-taro started lying. Maybe he wanted to be really sure that Sara didn't make it into the final vote, though; it would be the absolute worst-case scenario for Sou if the choice was between him, Sara, the Sacrifice and the Keymaster. Bloody Emissary fucked around with this message at 23:54 on May 28, 2020 |
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May 28, 2020 23:51
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While it could be a ploy to "not choose her", I do believe that Kanna did Trade 5. Perhaps we can be rid of Sou too now.
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May 28, 2020 23:59
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Four things bother me: That's still suspicious to me. I guess there's a pretty big loophole if the Sage can't claim this (since you could determine who the sage was and safely kick them out), but it does strike me as out of place. Also: Why did the second exchange occur? And why did they switch to Q-Taro, who would be the most likely to be able to switch back? (Unless that was their actual logic--- "I didn't want the guilt of killing someone, so I moved the sacrifice to Q-Taro to make him do it.") Also: If Kanna is aware that Sara had the sacrifice, then her going out of her way to grab it involves her knowing that Q-Taro doesn't have the sacrifice. Which means either: 1)Sou told her or 2)She's the one who peeped Q-Taro's tablet. Either way implies that she's betrayed Sou. Finally, and most importantly: Who had the Keymaster, originally, and why aren't they speaking up? If it were one of the safe four, they could verify Keiji's story. If it were one of the other three, they'd know you could trade other people's cards----if they saw the supposed Keiji/Q-Taro trade 4, why would anyone take Sara's Sacrifice? If they saw Q-Taro before Keiji's trade, they'd know that Q-Taro was the Keymaster, and they'd take that. If they saw it afterward, they'd see that Keiji was the Keymaster, using Q-Taro's sage, and take that. There's an alliance here we are not seeing, either another new one, or one that already existed before, and I'm not convinced we know the reality of trade 4 yet.
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May 29, 2020 02:50
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Veryslightlymad posted:Who had the Keymaster, originally, and why aren't they speaking up? It was probably Sou. It would explain how he knew about being able to trade other people's cards (which was what he did in the third trade, sending Q-taro's Sacrifice to Sara). Some of Sou's reactions during the initial reveal of the "trading other people's cards" thing support this theory; his "....." when Keiji says that trading Sara the Keymaster deepened the trust between the two of them and his remark that Keiji can "say with confidence" that making a trade between two other people is possible (whereupon Keiji sharply changes the subject back to why Sou wanted to share the laptop).
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May 29, 2020 05:49
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You're a good kid after all, Kanna. 
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May 29, 2020 06:20
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Veryslightlymad posted:If Kanna is aware that Sara had the sacrifice Everyone present should assume that either Sara got the sacrifice or is an incredible actor who wanted people to think she got the sacrifice. And there were enough people playing with the laptop that I would assume that someone who wasn't there could have heard about it from the grapevine. edit: If this trial involves someone who was at the laptop not even considering that Sara got the Sacrifice, I'll be really annoyed hey girl you up fucked around with this message at 16:32 on May 29, 2020 |
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May 29, 2020 16:30
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All this proves is that Kanna made the final trade. We still don't know if it was her own card she traded for the Sacrifice or if she swapped Sara's Sacrifice with, say, Sou's Commoner.
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May 29, 2020 16:41
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Mr. Vile posted:All this proves is that Kanna made the final trade. We still don't know if it was her own card she traded for the Sacrifice or if she swapped Sara's Sacrifice with, say, Sou's Commoner. Oh god if Kanna betrayed Sou like that... I don't think she has it in her, though, she'd trade for her own card if anyone's. Kanna wouldn't kill someone.
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May 29, 2020 16:46
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MarquiseMindfang posted:Oh god if Kanna betrayed Sou like that... I don't think she has it in her, though, she'd trade for her own card if anyone's. Kanna wouldn't kill someone. I'd tend to agree, but I didn't think Kanna had it in her to do what she's already done either. And if she gets herself killed, she won't be able to protect her big sister anymore. (At this rate, I'm expecting to see Gin outsmart everyone in the third Main Game. Everyone's just full of surprises.)
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May 30, 2020 02:38
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MarquiseMindfang posted:Oh god if Kanna betrayed Sou like that... I don't think she has it in her, though, she'd trade for her own card if anyone's. Kanna wouldn't kill someone. I was thinking the even more twisted possibility that she was manipulated into it by Sou, who has been playing the long game here to give himself the Sacrifice while making himself sufficiently hated to be voted out.
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May 30, 2020 03:33
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Mr. Vile posted:I was thinking the even more twisted possibility that she was manipulated into it by Sou, who has been playing the long game here to give himself the Sacrifice while making himself sufficiently hated to be voted out. Yeah I think that's the play here. kanna traded the sacrifice to sou, but is pretending that she took it herself. Naturally once people think sou isn't the sacrifice they'll vote for him. Sacrifice wins, Kanna and sou escape.
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May 30, 2020 04:29
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Kanna has repeatedly tried to stress that Sou is a good person and useful for the group, I don't think she'd tried to kill him. Likely, she noticed the panic on Sara's face even at the end, and decided then and there to trade it away to her.
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May 30, 2020 04:31
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Insertnamehere31 posted:Yeah I think that's the play here. kanna traded the sacrifice to sou, but is pretending that she took it herself. Naturally once people think sou isn't the sacrifice they'll vote for him. Sacrifice wins, Kanna and sou escape. Kanna almost certainly gave herself the sacrifice; It'd remove herself from Sou's influence, gives her a second vote to gently caress Sou over with even more as well, and saves her surrogate Big Sister.
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May 30, 2020 05:40
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| # ? Apr 16, 2024 04:55 |
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I've seen enough. Sou when the choice comes up.
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May 30, 2020 17:48
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