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PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die
Grimey Drawer

Asema posted:

maybe it started as one but it's not now

The back half of Season 4 has been all-timer after all-timer.

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Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Can we not besmirch this thread with discussion of lesser shows.

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.
But we already discuss Tuca and Birdie.

Daikloktos
Jan 1, 2020

by Cyrano4747
Venture Brothers, Frisky Dingo, Moral Oral... yeah you have Mr. Pickles and Assy McGee but you know, I'd rather take the bad with the good

Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

~Groovy~


Asema posted:

maybe it started as one but it's not now

I disagree.

Daikloktos posted:

Venture Brothers, Frisky Dingo, Moral Oral... yeah you have Mr. Pickles and Assy McGee but you know, I'd rather take the bad with the good

Adult swim also gives as weird poo poo like The Shivering truth and Too Many Cooks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8

I like Adult Swim, glad they're around, solid network that takes chances on weird poo poo.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug

Daikloktos posted:

Venture Brothers, Frisky Dingo, Moral Oral... yeah you have Mr. Pickles and Assy McGee but you know, I'd rather take the bad with the good

I went back and watched Frisky Dingo again last year and holy poo poo that show holds up way better than I expected. Not a minute goes by without something hilarious happening.

Solice Kirsk posted:

But we already discuss Tuca and Birdie.

Oh, good, I’m not the only one that thinks it kind of sucks compared to Bojack?

Asema
Oct 2, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
yeah maybe i'm just tired of listening to chuds gaffaw about how great rick and morty is and that my issues with the show is because my feeble lady brain doesn't understand it and then unironically going around the "big iq" meme without ever saying it and not the fact that it's yet another "this person you are all cheering for and screaming is a golden god is a literal garbage human and the creators consistently go out of their way to showcase that they are horrible but each step just has more cheers erupt how can you just be so god drat brave"

Asema
Oct 2, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
gonna go fight somebody over 1990 era mcdonald sauces brb

Kerrek
Dec 17, 2004

Daikloktos posted:

Venture Brothers, Frisky Dingo, Moral Oral... yeah you have Mr. Pickles and Assy McGee but you know, I'd rather take the bad with the good

Who dares besmirch Assy McGee

Daikloktos
Jan 1, 2020

by Cyrano4747
My biggest complaint with the final season, other than them not finding a real summative endcap to Mr. Peanutbutter's arc, is the stuff with Todd and his parents. That part of the episode in the back half felt incredibly rote and Jorge was completely sanded down. I loved his appearance in the first half on a character level but - well, for as much realistic consequence to this wacky animal world as the show deals in the one issue it always had to elide was race. It didn't want to pull that very obvious thread and so you're asked from early on to suspend your disbelief that there wouldn't be incredible tension in a world with hundreds of socially-constructible "races". When it's a gag like the "elephant in the room" bit or the Animal's Choice Awards it's one thing, but any time the plot started betraying that required suspension it jars.

Kerrek posted:

Who dares besmirch Assy McGee
I'd actually go to bat for most of the traditionally "bad" Adult Swim shows. Even the ones that don't work on a fundamental level almost always have certain superlative qualities that I wouldn't want rounded off in exchange for a more homogenized but fundamentally functional show.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames

Asema posted:

yeah maybe i'm just tired of listening to chuds gaffaw about how great rick and morty is and that my issues with the show is because my feeble lady brain doesn't understand it and then unironically going around the "big iq" meme without ever saying it and not the fact that it's yet another "this person you are all cheering for and screaming is a golden god is a literal garbage human and the creators consistently go out of their way to showcase that they are horrible but each step just has more cheers erupt how can you just be so god drat brave"

...why are you listening to CHUDs... at all?

Look, there are problem a billion whiny Twitterinos who truly and completely believe Bojack Horseman is a misunderstood genius and a sympathetic anti-hero and use him and other examples to justify their depression-fueled substance abuse. I know for certain that these people would ostensibly appear to be on the same side as I am about many important social issues, but would actually be pure flaming dogshit to speak with or spend any time with. I love this show more than I have ever loved any other show in my life, but my experience with the Bojack fanbase outside of literally just this thread is 100% wishy washy drama queens who all try to excuse their anti-social and rude behaviors with "I'm a Scorpio and that's just the way it is!" type bullshit.

You don't ever have to let the fans of a piece of media dictate how you consume or experience something. Hell, if you're a genius, you don't even have to let the creator dictate that!

Asema
Oct 2, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Bust Rodd posted:

...why are you listening to CHUDs... at all?


because they are the loudest and the very much majority in a lot of gaming spheres and it's absolutely exhausting to deal with

Asgerd
May 6, 2012

I worked up a powerful loneliness in my massive bed, in the massive dark.
Grimey Drawer
It’s not just terrible fans, Rick and Morty always felt to me like it was trying to have its cake and eat it with the whole “protagonist is supposed to be an rear end in a top hat, you’re not meant to like him” thing. Rick is a despicable sack of poo poo, but he’s also an unstoppable badass mega genius who can do anything and defeat anyone, and he’s surrounded by morons who he owns effortlessly. Compare that to someone like BoJack or Rusty Venture, who aren’t just assholes but flat-out pathetic losers who fail constantly.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames
What cake are they trying to eat exactly? “Mean people can be smart and capable sometimes?”

The assertion that Rick & Morty is some bizarre reality play attempting to moralize Rick through science seems like the same energy as post-Millenial readings of Fight Club being a manual for fascism. A character within a story behaving as themselves is not the same as the writer’s pushing an agenda.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008

I think in Rick and Morty, it completely varies by episode (and writer) whether Rick is meant to be a laudable figure or not. Occasionally he's the mouthpiece for an idea that's clearly "with" the writer, like "this genre cliche is dumb and I hate it, let's have Rick razz on it", but that's usually undermined by Rick doing something petty and horrible that graduates his criticism into spite.

In other episodes he's just very clearly an abusive, evil figure who's taking out his own insecurities on the people around him - the show is just generally cynical enough that it doesn't feel the need to write in a "hero" who's capable of stopping Rick from indulging his id. In its universe, there's no moral arbiter that can make sure this monster gets his just deserts, because its universe is an essentially depraved, pessimistic place ruled by self-interest and venality. I think the latter part is what really turns some people off from the show - Rick never getting punished for his wrongdoing is just a side-effect of the show's general nihilism.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008

Which, to be clear, even though Rick and Morty's nihilism is "more realistic" than a Luke Skywalker or a Harry Potter arising from the ashes to enact vengeance upon an evil dude like Rick against the odds - and that's part of the appeal, that it forgoes the simple Manichean take on good vs. evil where good ultimately prevails - it is still a pretty self-indulgent thematic mode.

In Rick and Morty's worldview, there really is no room for genuine heroism whatsoever. Anyone who appears benevolent is actually a vacuous charlatan or evil themselves, nearly 100% of the time. The only benevolence that occurs is by the whim of free-wheeling monsters like Rick, doing a good deed because it seems like an entertaining diversion for a moment. And there's definitely a sense that the show enjoys this cynicism - that some element of the creative crew is into the idea that only bad people can do good things, and that no truly good people exist. So yeah, while I think it's a good show, these are all valid reasons for someone to think it's too cynical or too edgy.

Hemingway To Go!
Nov 10, 2008

im stupider then dog shit, i dont give a shit, and i dont give a fuck, and i will never shut the fuck up, and i'll always Respect my enemys.
- ernest hemingway
Rick and Morty kind of started bad, it's gotten better, media can be not for everyone.
Assigning media objective goodness values, for the most part, is pretty poo poo. Not only are you giving alt righters enough respect to take their media opinions seriously and consider them first, it's downplaying what they are truly poo poo for (wanting to live in a dictatorship so they can have everyone they don't like genocided because that's what they think they deserve) into "they just don't like the same cartoons I do"

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames
Yeah I mean as someone who games constantly unless you mean it’s happening at your local game store just don’t go to places like reddit or 4chan or Resetera where CHUDS coagulate to bitch about video games. It’s very easy to avoid them by simply avoiding those garbage spaces in the first place. You aren’t missing out on important discourse, you’re saving yourself the hassle of interacting with idiots.

Asema
Oct 2, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Bust Rodd posted:

It’s very easy to avoid them by simply avoiding those garbage spaces in the first place.

For you maybe because I would like to use voice chat in games that have a slight need for it without immediately listening to the gamers fulfil toxic fantasies of telling me to suck their dick or going through the entire loop of "oh great we're going to lose because we've got a girl on the team" like I'm sorry I can't ignore those gamer chuds like you loving experts can apparently.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames
Lmao stop playing DOTA and Overwatch and your general quality of life will literally skyrocket

For real, multiplayer games with strangers aren’t fun, absolutely not worth the frustration

Also every game in 2020 has a mute function, if someone is slurring you or talking about Rick & Morty they are a safe mute you aren’t missing out their 1337 call outs

Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 14:00 on May 29, 2020

Asema
Oct 2, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I don't play those two, try again.

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


Turn off voice chat if you aren't explicitly talking with friends or a regular group you interact with regularly. Rando chuds screaming obscenities are poo poo tier scrubs with nothing to offer and there is not a single game on the planet that is improved by unmuting them.

Hemingway To Go!
Nov 10, 2008

im stupider then dog shit, i dont give a shit, and i dont give a fuck, and i will never shut the fuck up, and i'll always Respect my enemys.
- ernest hemingway
My pro tactic is not playing games with voice chat grew up with chud parents, only now doing the work to reprogram myself and recognize the trauma they put on me, do not wamt any more brain cells with chud voice clips or connections
Liking animal crossing more than i thought i would, half of it is bevause reyneigh was a starting villager. She's kind of like hollyhock without all the sadness, feasible headcanon that this is where she went to ghost bojack.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames
Hollyhock ghosting Bojack is far and away the emotional climax of the series, IMO

Asema
Oct 2, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

Turn off voice chat if you aren't explicitly talking with friends or a regular group you interact with regularly. Rando chuds screaming obscenities are poo poo tier scrubs with nothing to offer and there is not a single game on the planet that is improved by unmuting them.

I already do this. And again I want to point out that this is a really dumb and bad band-aid for a very big problem but whatever, I don't want to engage with this conversation any longer so sure whatever you guys say.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Bust Rodd posted:

Lmao stop playing DOTA and Overwatch and your general quality of life will literally skyrocket

Don't you see that all this is putting the burden on the person being harassed to have to adjust their behaviour? You might think you're helping here but you're extremely not.

"when I do x, I get harassed"
"oh stop doing x then even if you enjoy it"

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames
I'm sorry that I don't have the solution to online gaming being a cesspit, but I am a FIRM believer in curating your online experience as best you can to protect yourself. You literally cannot control what racists and homophobes do in their free time, but you actively insulate yourself from their shittiness while playing, and more and more games are giving you the tools to do that. Not every developer is as responsive and sympathetic as should be to their reporting system, and even then the only to ensure you don't here them call you a slur is to proactively protect yourself.

I've been gaming my entire life, and I'm bi, so hearing people call me the f slur really sucked and those are the steps I took to protect myself. Same thing here on SA, I love the Ignore feature, I love blocking people on Twitter and muting entire words or phrases that upset me. It's okay to want to feel safe! Use the tools that exist while you continue to ask for more!

I'm not making excuses for gaming housing a terrible fan base, but I also literally can't do anything about it either.

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003

by Hand Knit
When should we expect a prequel spin-off and an epilogue movie?

Asema
Oct 2, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Osmosisch posted:

Don't you see that all this is putting the burden on the person being harassed to have to adjust their behaviour? You might think you're helping here but you're extremely not.

"when I do x, I get harassed"
"oh stop doing x then even if you enjoy it"

you get used to this and after awhile it stops mattering if the "this never happens" comes from a CHUD or "just don't engage in it" comes from a left-leaning "ally"

I'm sorry I brought this up over the Pickle show.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug

Bust Rodd posted:

Hollyhock ghosting Bojack is far and away the emotional climax of the series, IMO

Didn’t she explicitly tell him in the letter that she didn’t want him in her life and why, we just never got to hear the contents? Kind of the opposite of ghosting.

Megera
Sep 9, 2008
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-T2Ra-bWIc

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003

by Hand Knit

Ugly In The Morning posted:

Didn’t she explicitly tell him in the letter that she didn’t want him in her life and why, we just never got to hear the contents? Kind of the opposite of ghosting.

We have no clue what was in the letter TBH

Automata 10 Pack
Jun 21, 2007

Ten games published by Automata, on one cassette
i pirated the post metoo louis ck special and it had a very gross and dark bojack energy to it. like you could have will arnett read the jokes and an artist trace bojack over louie and it would feel like the horrible post series special you never wanted.

uuugh

Automata 10 Pack fucked around with this message at 22:01 on May 29, 2020

Daikloktos
Jan 1, 2020

by Cyrano4747
It was two pages, and I'm torn to imagine that's where the second-half's "gently caress" landed (even though they probably just didn't get a second one)

Regalingualius
Jan 7, 2012

We gazed into the eyes of madness... And all we found was horny.




I thought the second “gently caress” was during the scene where Bojack’s trying to get takeout after the second interview comes out.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.

Iron Crowned posted:

We have no clue what was in the letter TBH

True, but what makes the most sense is that Bojack’s fear was correct and she was cutting him out of her life forever in no uncertain terms.

“Ghosting” implies she’s keeping Bojack on some back burner in case she decides to reconnect with him later, which doesn’t seem like something Hollyhock would ever do. That feels like something Hollywoo people do: never burning a bridge in case it’s useful to cross it later. Which is a recurring thought in the show, that people keep giving him chances and enabling him because of his fame and wealth. They never know when a Secretariat or Philbert or Horny Unicorn will come around and render him useful again.

Hollyhock’s rejection of him carries the most weight because she’s a purely personal connection. She has no interest in the material benefits of his friendship, so when he’s out, he’s OUT.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.



Yayyy, but also, aw dang, animation downgrade confirmed.

Fair Bear Maiden
Jun 17, 2013

Lurdiak posted:

Yayyy, but also, aw dang, animation downgrade confirmed.

So, I think you're being sarcastic, but just for the benefit of people who might take it seriously: this is clearly something that was whipped in quarantine quickly and not an indication of the kind of quality of season 2 of the show.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
Can we get a thread title change to include Tuca and Bertie? Unless that show gets its own thread which I don't think it did before.

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Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.

Yikes...well, good luck Tuca and Bertie fans because that looks terrible.

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