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docbeard posted:So having just finished watching Picard, I, er, I liked it. 
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May 25, 2020 00:16
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My more serious assessment was that I liked it as a piece of sci-fi television, but it was not good Star Trek except for the episode where they camped out with Will Riker and his family for a few days.
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May 25, 2020 00:26
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Enh, I liked Picard too overall. I'm not going to rank it alongside the 90's series or anything like that but it at least felt more like Star Trek than mega-grimdark Discovery. It was better than Nemisis, and thus if nothing else a better end to 90's Trek. I'm cautiously optimistic as to the future seasons. Honestly I think it might have worked better as a miniseries where Picard (spoilers on the off chance anyone hasn't seen it yet) stayed dead at the end. I'm not really sure what else they have to do going forward, it felt like they really wrapped up everything they presented his character as having been dealing with for the last few decades. My ultimate hope, since Patrick Stewart isn't going to want to do more than a few seasons, is that it'll set up some spin-off for the 25th century in the Prime universe as a more traditional series like they did with Pike over in the Discovery universe, which I can't accept as anything but an alternate reality since it's so weird.
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May 25, 2020 05:48
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Was it ever explained why Cumberbatch Khan is so pale?
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May 28, 2020 02:17
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I think there were some behind-the-scene mumbles about Starfleet Intelligence or Section 31 or whoever giving him a new face so he wouldn't be instantly recognized in the field as Hitler2, but no, nothing was ever said on screen about why a man named Khan Singh was Anglo-Saxon as gently caress.
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May 28, 2020 03:22
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I mean... we all know why.
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May 28, 2020 03:40
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Nu Trek: I mean, we all know why.
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May 28, 2020 06:06
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oh but seriously I posted:I mean... we all know why. mind the walrus posted:Nu Trek: I mean, we all know why. lol
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May 28, 2020 09:32
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more like No Trek
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May 28, 2020 15:23
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I can't say much for Picard other than that it's extremely funny in an extremely unintentional way
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Jun 2, 2020 19:44
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Surprised people think Beyond is great. The last memorable Star Trek movie was Insurrection.
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Jun 7, 2020 13:20
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A4R8 posted:Surprised people think Beyond is great.  Unless you are a fan of face-stretch porn 
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Jun 7, 2020 16:46
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Beyond is okay. Which makes it the best Star Trek movie in 2 decades.
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Jun 7, 2020 18:48
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Peachfart posted:Beyond is okay. Which makes it the best Star Trek movie in 2 decades. Insurrection is in many ways worse than Nemesis. The only person (singular) I've seen to go bat for Nemesis was eventually revealed to be a brain-damaged pedophile (insert Aatrek joke here). No one really defends that movie as much as say "oh you can see the outline of some better stuff here and here" or "it's stupid but I don't hate it." Insurrection is the kind-of stupid and bad that thinks it's really smart (insert joke about me here). It promotes a dilemma that is very clearly not a dilemma, focuses on all the wrong things, glorifies "rural simplicity" in the way only someone very far removed from manual labor ever could, and features some truly ugly costuming in a franchise renowned for coming up with creative and exotic looks. The worst part is that there's a much better movie in there that only requires a few tweaks-- make the So'NA less dickish, make the B'aku more dickish, make both of them natives of the planet (after a botched survey the Federation contacted them pre-Warp; the So'Na decided to embrace the tech and the B'aku didn't, none of this "Space Elves" crap), and make it a movie about Picard/Deanna/Data versus Crusher/Riker/Geordi/Worf. The former group is holding true to the Prime Directive and the right to liberty, a homestead, individual choice, etc. while the latter is recognizing that the B'aku are being lovely people withholding medical advancements that could cure Geordi's eyes, help Worf in the fight with the Dominion, etc. Use it as a way for long-simmering tension between the characters to come to a head-- Picard accusing Riker and Beverly of being career-minded opportunists, Riker shooting back that Picard is showing his age and having a mid-life crisis because even with the healing he can't return to his youth, Deanna and Data making impassioned arguments for emotion and logic respectively while Geordi, Beverly, and Worf show them examples of what they're denying others. Then come down firmly and definitively on the side of "The B'aku need to relocate" using "The Federation makes paradise planets in their spare time, if the B'aku really can't accept the march of history and throw up some museums on their home planet while moving somewhere equally nice then that's vain, this is not the Trail of loving Tears." Throw in some radical dickheads on both sides to help stoke the emotional fires of the crew, have some threats of violence that would destroy the fragile magic healing bullshit of the planet, and boom you've got a nice third act tension. Hell if you had real balls you could actually have emotions get the better of the crew and they accidentally ruin the magic healing planet for everyone. It'd dovetail pretty nicely with Picard's arc in First Contact.
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Jun 7, 2020 19:53
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People really think JJ Trek movies are better than TNG movies? Insurrection is good because it feels like a Star Trek story. The primary problem with the JJ Trek movies - aside from being bland trash - is that they tried to reboot TOS characters. Make new characters people.
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Jun 7, 2020 22:14
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Nah, Insurrection was still a bad Star Trek movie. It was a dumb, schlocky, poorly thought-out summer action blockbuster that someone at Paramount tried to slap a coat of Star Trek: TNG paint over, and it just doesn't really work. Now, if they'd made it as a Voyager movie instead, then it would've been a good Star Trek movie, because it still would've been dumb, schlocky, and poorly thought-out, but at least that'd be on brand for Voyager. Also, please note that I'm saying all this as someone who enjoyed both Insurrection and Voyager. 
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Jun 7, 2020 22:25
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No, a single JJ Trek movie(Beyond) is decent, not great. Personally I think all of the TNG movies kinda suck. First Contact being an okay movie, but a garbage Trek movie.
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Jun 7, 2020 22:26
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Star Trek has been on a really long downward slide that began with the TNG movies and hasn't stopped. The best Trek stuff during this time has been merely OK, perhaps making an exception for DS9, which I personally don't. Like Beyond is indeed decent, they managed to nail the MCU level of filmmaking competence and storytelling structure, which is nice but hardly revolutionary. It was revelatory compared to Into Darkness, a 9/11 truther movie, or Star Trek 2009, which left out half the plot (both more than ever feel like warning shots as to what would happen with JJ Star Wars). Meanwhile Discovery and Picard are pablum.
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Jun 7, 2020 22:35
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Each to their own, but I think Star Trek after 2005 is just awful with no sense of direction or sophistication whatsoever. Even Nemesis is better than the JJ movies.
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Jun 8, 2020 02:43
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Beyond was solid, 2009 is passable when standing next to V, Generations, Insurrection, and Nemesis, and you're being deliberately crotchety if you can't give it that much. And I say that as someone who hates Into Darkness and thinks JJ is an absolute garbage storyteller, and have since his Alias days.
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Jun 8, 2020 02:46
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Generations is neat
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Jun 8, 2020 02:49
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I saw the Star Trek 2009 one, it was okay but it wasn't what I wanted from Star Trek, which is why I never bothered checking out Into Darkness or Beyond.
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Jun 8, 2020 03:00
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I saw Insurrection with my father, a life-long trek watcher at that point in his life, when it first came out. After it was over he kind of shrugged and said, "Would have worked better as an hour long TNG episode." That's basically been his go-to comment for the odd numbered Original trek movies and all of the TNG movies (although he admitted Generations would have made a sweet two-parter). He thinks the NuTrek movies are all trash though, so that just kind of shows how far down the "I hate this" scale those movies sit with him.
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Jun 8, 2020 05:04
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Insurrection is the kind of movie that gets worse the more you think about it. On first blush it's just an inoffensive, but bland TNG episode stretched to full length, but the more you think about it the angrier it makes you that they wasted so much money and talented people's time on such a dogshit script. Like yeah Angel One sucks, but it's easy when you've got 20+ other episodes per season to bounce off of. When it's a movie you get to hold it to a slightly higher standard.
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Jun 8, 2020 05:12
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If you haven't seem them, the classic RedLetterMedia reviews of the Trek films are an absolute treat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h06WKYFYdlo
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Jun 8, 2020 18:29
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Taintrunner posted:If you haven't seem them, the classic RedLetterMedia reviews of the Trek films are an absolute treat: I think everyone misses the joke in the generations review that it's mostly a nitpicking recluse. He doesnt get serious til later.
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Jun 8, 2020 19:00
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9/11 killed Trek imho, after that happened everyone gave up on thinking things would ever get better in the future so we all backslid into "hard people making hard decisions" thinking This applies to more than just Star Trek, now that I think of it
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Jun 8, 2020 19:30
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FunkyAl posted:I think everyone misses the joke in the generations review that it's mostly a nitpicking recluse. He doesnt get serious til later. Plus when he wants to pull out an amv he knows his poo poo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj8g4TnWLVw He never released one separately, but at the tag of his Generations review he does an homage to Kirk get to Journey's "Faithfully" and it fits drat well. https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/film7.php
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Jun 8, 2020 19:33
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Feldegast42 posted:9/11 killed Trek imho, after that happened everyone gave up on thinking things would ever get better in the future so we all backslid into "hard people making hard decisions" thinking Yeah, sadly. They’re even making a loving CIA Trek show on section 31 lmao. Gotta manufacture consent among the masses How the mighty have fallen
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Jun 8, 2020 21:38
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mind the walrus posted:That's why I prefer SFDebris. RLM is a comedy act first and despite nearly 10 years of their bullshit it still feels like increasingly paunchy post-grads stumbling in the dark using performative irony as a crutch. SFDebris is going to work himself to death, has a hopelessly dorky sense of humor and timing that relies on crappy voices he can barely do, but he's got a working-class charm to his analysis that often leads to good common sense critique. There's also the problem of when the mask slips and RLM gets into their bad politics, but you can already predict whatever they're going to think about a new movie without watching their review. There's not a lot of depth to the approach at the best of times, they're forever holding the torch for the 80's movie canon for white males.
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Jun 8, 2020 23:19
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Feldegast42 posted:9/11 killed Trek imho, after that happened everyone gave up on thinking things would ever get better in the future so we all backslid into "hard people making hard decisions" thinking Watching clips from "Pegasus" and seeing all the YouTube commenters insist the corrupt admiral was right because god forbid the Federation give up any technology advantage to the Romulans was really depressing for me. I mean, YouTube, sure, but it just seems like people are insistent on Star Trek being observed through pure OpSec terms which gets away from the spirit of the franchise.
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Jun 9, 2020 23:11
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Peachfart posted:No, a single JJ Trek movie(Beyond) is decent, not great. All correct
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Jun 9, 2020 23:23
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A4R8 posted:Yeah, sadly. They’re even making a loving CIA Trek show on section 31 lmao. Gotta manufacture consent among the masses They announced it but I haven't seen any actual evidence that they are making it yet. Nothing about casting, international distribution partners, anything like that. How many times have they announced JJTrek 4 so far? Like 3? Same thing here.
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Jun 10, 2020 09:46
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Peachfart posted:No, a single JJ Trek movie(Beyond) is decent, not great. Generations is okay if you watch it right after watching the series. It feels like a continuation and a promise of bigger and better things--which of course never materialize.
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Jun 10, 2020 16:15
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A4R8 posted:Yeah, sadly. They’re even making a loving CIA Trek show on section 31 lmao. Gotta manufacture consent among the masses And originally Section 31 may have been just one guy, lol
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Jun 10, 2020 21:09
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I am almost morbidly curious about how a section 31 series would go these days, clearly they don't have the skill or the intent to write thoughtful science fiction so it would most likely be loving horrible, but to what extent and in what way? I can't see them making a whole show about how section 31 is bad and wrong even though that's the whole point of the concept of the organization in Star Trek in the first place, so yeah would the whole show just literally be manufacturing consent for the terrible shift that goes on IRL? Would they try to half-assedly "both sides" the thing? Actually on second thought I don't want to see this at all what the gently caress was I thinking
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Jun 11, 2020 19:52
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Patrick Spens posted:I liked Beyond, but it bothered me a lot that they didn't capture and try to rehabilitate Idris Elba's character. This was similarly my only issue with the movie. Seemed like waste of the character. I don't know what their plans were for sequels immediately after (I know they sort of talked about doing a purely no villain exploring some weird planet poo poo movie at one point) but even if he wasn't rehabilitated he could have been a equivalent to like Peddington in DS9 or something as a recurring "notice how the Federation is actually dogshit? Makes you think..." character. Anyway shame it didn't do as well based on the abysmalness of Into Darkness. Animal-Mother posted:And originally Section 31 may have been just one guy, lol Should make it like The Prisoner and have it be a new person in every episode. mind the walrus posted:That might bother me if that were a strategy for any other Trek antagonist ever, including the good ones. I'm not sure how you'd even portray that without coming across as cult-y. Like you're right that it's more Trek-appropriate to find a diplomatic response, but I can't think of any situation offhand in Old Trek where a clearly unhinged madman was met with "No wait... let's get this man some literature." It's because all the best ones already have it.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYPsoxpt0BU Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jun 11, 2020 |
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Jun 11, 2020 19:59
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Tighclops posted:I am almost morbidly curious about how a section 31 series would go these days, clearly they don't have the skill or the intent to write thoughtful science fiction so it would most likely be loving horrible, but to what extent and in what way? I can't see them making a whole show about how section 31 is bad and wrong even though that's the whole point of the concept of the organization in Star Trek in the first place, so yeah would the whole show just literally be manufacturing consent for the terrible shift that goes on IRL? Would they try to half-assedly "both sides" the thing? It's literally just 24 but with Patrick Stewart being de-aged in postproduction.
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Jun 12, 2020 01:32
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A4R8 posted:People really think JJ Trek movies are better than TNG movies? We're over three decades removed from the start of TNG, TNG itself was only two decades removed from the start of TOS. 
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Jun 12, 2020 07:04
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This just means that the Disco crew are going to get the next movie, and that movie will probably be edgy and awful.
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Jun 13, 2020 06:33
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