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winvirus
Jan 23, 2009

You only delay the inevitable. All of this island will soon belong to me.

is it daytime? can i post? wheres my role, merk. i read two pages and i have opinions to share

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Dhaes
Dec 1, 2006

You realize, of course, that everything I say is horseshit.
it is night but merk is leaving the thread open so post awAY ~

Dhaes
Dec 1, 2006

You realize, of course, that everything I say is horseshit.

dy. posted:

I have no idea what you are talking about.

your vote here during the d1 lynch scramble

winvirus
Jan 23, 2009

You only delay the inevitable. All of this island will soon belong to me.

Wow my eyes glazed over by page six can someone just give me the first two days highlights? please frame them as “Previously, on Survivor...” for me.

my game starts when merk replaced me in and i immediately think dhaes is town because no scum would put in that much effort. i’m probably scum because i refuse to read the thread before page 27. those are my hot takes. thank you. i’m going to go chug a bottle of ibuprofen pills for my wicked hangover.

winvirus
Jan 23, 2009

You only delay the inevitable. All of this island will soon belong to me.

yo so why haven’t we all fullclaimed? it’s about to be day three, theres no roleblocker, most abilities look one-shot, what do we have to lose lol

winvirus
Jan 23, 2009

You only delay the inevitable. All of this island will soon belong to me.

V Are leaviNg Interesting LittLe breAdcrumb clues still a thing

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Scum killed #1 spot N1. Might have been dumb luck to avoid doc/bg/watcher, or they have some of those roles and don't respect town ability to stop/catch them. If there are any town PRs, outing them during N2 seems like an unnecessary risk of losing them.

I claimed vanilla because I thought the only reasonable explanation was a scum took it to keep it out of town hands. kinda regret it because it's not possible a town took it and wifomed themselves out if protecting highwire cause "why would scum take the risk".

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Pander posted:

I claimed vanilla because I thought the only reasonable explanation was a scum took dramatic bodyguard

Mafia edit for clarity

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003

This is the first time it was brought to my attention.

Even if I was scum, this is straight up not something I would ever do intentionally. It's borderline cheating. If you want to say I'm scum based on my play, whatever, but this is not a thing.

winvirus
Jan 23, 2009

You only delay the inevitable. All of this island will soon belong to me.

i skimmed up to like page 18, heres where i’m thinking:

i’m town, obv. dhaes is town, he’s putting in so much effort i can’t imagine anyone caring that much as scum. big town vibes from keane but nothing i can really substantiate, maybe i just like keane as a human and he can do no wrong

no reads on bminus, chili, cidrick, dy. could swing either way on them

major scum vibes from voodoo and pander.

voodoo played is role in the scummiest way possible, spoonsy was obviously lurky town and their interaction (pander post post post (so i can use my ability to nuke a town and not my scumbuddy)) feels so manufactured its hilarious. also resetting the vote at like an hour before deadline?? that’s COMICALLY scummy. when day opens i’m hard advocating a voodoo execution.

my initial vibe from pander was town but between the voodoo stuff and the way both of these votes swung it makes most logical sense he’s one of the big baddies

Dhaes
Dec 1, 2006

You realize, of course, that everything I say is horseshit.

dy. posted:

This is the first time it was brought to my attention.

Even if I was scum, this is straight up not something I would ever do intentionally. It's borderline cheating. If you want to say I'm scum based on my play, whatever, but this is not a thing.

was it now?

the first time you say?

regardless, im not sure that it was scum, but i think it was something worth paying attention to

Dhaes
Dec 1, 2006

You realize, of course, that everything I say is horseshit.

winvirus posted:

voodoo played is role in the scummiest way possible, spoonsy was obviously lurky town and their interaction (pander post post post (so i can use my ability to nuke a town and not my scumbuddy)) feels so manufactured its hilarious. also resetting the vote at like an hour before deadline?? that’s COMICALLY scummy. when day opens i’m hard advocating a voodoo execution.

my initial vibe from pander was town but between the voodoo stuff and the way both of these votes swung it makes most logical sense he’s one of the big baddies

this is my response to highwire

and this is my post stating my reasons

i'm curious as to why you feel it was a scummy way to play, i may have blinders on and you've got fresh eyes

winvirus
Jan 23, 2009

You only delay the inevitable. All of this island will soon belong to me.

Dhaes posted:

this is my response to highwire

and this is my post stating my reasons

i'm curious as to why you feel it was a scummy way to play, i may have blinders on and you've got fresh eyes

it feels super manufactured. he coulda said “yo post post post” in the scumdoc but then that woulda been super obv. to blow his load right after pander posts 8 times and gets out of the Death Zone (tm)??? it feels super pretend-town and it gave me bad vibes

winvirus
Jan 23, 2009

You only delay the inevitable. All of this island will soon belong to me.

also yo how tf did highwire, the first draft pick and guaranteed power role, die n1, with no info? are the doctor and watcher and bodyguard all scum??? like what on earth, i want answers, this is some amateur hour poo poo. if so, that means our scum are prob. high draft picks that got those protecto roles

Dhaes
Dec 1, 2006

You realize, of course, that everything I say is horseshit.

winvirus posted:

it feels super manufactured. he coulda said “yo post post post” in the scumdoc but then that woulda been super obv. to blow his load right after pander posts 8 times and gets out of the Death Zone (tm)??? it feels super pretend-town and it gave me bad vibes

why wouldnt that be literally the first thing he said in the scumdoc though, way near the beginning of the day? i know when i play scum the first thing i say is my role or whatever cause there is literally nothing else to talk about, game wise

to me that only really makes sense if he said nothing until the time he wanted to say something

i feel like it probably seems like im badgering you. i just want you to find the holes in my logic so i can see it another way, cause yeah, during my reread there were posts from voodoo that in an isolated environment were kinda scummy, but i just can't get over that one and his play there

Dhaes
Dec 1, 2006

You realize, of course, that everything I say is horseshit.

winvirus posted:

also yo how tf did highwire, the first draft pick and guaranteed power role, die n1, with no info? are the doctor and watcher and bodyguard all scum??? like what on earth, i want answers, this is some amateur hour poo poo. if so, that means our scum are prob. high draft picks that got those protecto roles

yet dumbshits be callin me scum for saying this

for real tho

winvirus
Jan 23, 2009

You only delay the inevitable. All of this island will soon belong to me.

nah badger away, i think your logic fails to assess the win-win benefit of voodoos actions as scum.
if hes scum, and pander is scum...
* if pander does post a lot - great, scumbud saved, he dayvigs an obvious town lurker and resets the vote at 11th hour and swings it onto someone else (why didnt he try to then vote pander?? his posts werent convincing)
* if pander does not - he dayvigs a scumbuddy, gets basically Confirmed Town by that siiiick play, rides to the end untouched

my questions for you, dhaes, are:
a) you felt wins was strong scum but then swung on to hal yesterday: why
b) you felt wins was strong scum but then i replaced him and you aren’t pursuing me: why
c) you are intent on not seeing pander and voodoo as a possible scum duo: why

it is seeding doubt in my mind a bit, idk if the New Scum Meta is actually “put forth a lot of effort” lol i havent played mafia in like five years

winvirus
Jan 23, 2009

You only delay the inevitable. All of this island will soon belong to me.

i’ll laugh if i get nightkilled and play technically zero days in this game, literally only popping in to provide some sick analysis lmfao

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply

winvirus posted:

i’ll laugh if i get nightkilled and play technically zero days in this game, literally only popping in to provide some sick analysis lmfao

It's the best outcome for all of us.

winvirus
Jan 23, 2009

You only delay the inevitable. All of this island will soon belong to me.

CCKeane posted:

It's the best outcome for all of us.

if i die, execute this man, the only one in the game who would nightkill me purely because “it would be really funny to me”

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003

Dhaes posted:

was it now?

the first time you say?

regardless, im not sure that it was scum, but i think it was something worth paying attention to
Yes, it was. I didn't notice your posts.

This thing is really really dumb Dhaes. You're accusing me of trying to sneak something by that you had already publicly called me out on.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



winvirus posted:

also yo how tf did highwire, the first draft pick and guaranteed power role, die n1, with no info? are the doctor and watcher and bodyguard all scum??? like what on earth, i want answers, this is some amateur hour poo poo. if so, that means our scum are prob. high draft picks that got those protecto roles
In case you missed it, someone above me in the draft is definitely the dramatic bodyguard.

Based on hal's claim (and no reason to doubt it since he flipped town) someone took oracle. I mean, I'll have some discussion with him about why he'd try for THAT role as town in post-game, but for now I'm assuming a scum took that because a chance to escape a lynch is too powerful to pass up.

If you make the reasonable assumption that the scum have the dramatic bodyguard and oracle, then the question is "why kill the #1 spot when a watcher or doctor could still ruin the day"? My guess is they have the doc too, and were 100% fine with a potential watcher seeing them because they can set up the oracle to negate the lynch if the NKer was caught cold by the watcher. You get to out the watcher and negate a lynch.

winvirus posted:

nah badger away, i think your logic fails to assess the win-win benefit of voodoos actions as scum.
if hes scum, and pander is scum...
* if pander does post a lot - great, scumbud saved, he dayvigs an obvious town lurker and resets the vote at 11th hour and swings it onto someone else (why didnt he try to then vote pander?? his posts werent convincing)
* if pander does not - he dayvigs a scumbuddy, gets basically Confirmed Town by that siiiick play, rides to the end untouched
If voodoo and me are scum, he'd have told me his ability D1, and I would undergo the herculean task of not getting sucked into xcom2 for one loving day enough to post during jokephase enough to pad my post-count. Hell I could have gotten into endless circles talking with dy about power role selection theory. It'd have taken no effort and been insanely less dumb than "hectoring pander in the thread to post more to narrowly avoid killing him".

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003

Pander posted:

In case you missed it, someone above me in the draft is definitely the dramatic bodyguard.

Based on hal's claim (and no reason to doubt it since he flipped town) someone took oracle. I mean, I'll have some discussion with him about why he'd try for THAT role as town in post-game, but for now I'm assuming a scum took that because a chance to escape a lynch is too powerful to pass up.

If you make the reasonable assumption that the scum have the dramatic bodyguard and oracle, then the question is "why kill the #1 spot when a watcher or doctor could still ruin the day"? My guess is they have the doc too, and were 100% fine with a potential watcher seeing them because they can set up the oracle to negate the lynch if the NKer was caught cold by the watcher. You get to out the watcher and negate a lynch.

If voodoo and me are scum, he'd have told me his ability D1, and I would undergo the herculean task of not getting sucked into xcom2 for one loving day enough to post during jokephase enough to pad my post-count. Hell I could have gotten into endless circles talking with dy about power role selection theory. It'd have taken no effort and been insanely less dumb than "hectoring pander in the thread to post more to narrowly avoid killing him".
Why is it a reasonable assumption that the scum have both dramatic bodyguard and oracle? I get that it's a possibility, but not sure why you're jumping to conclusions so hard.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003

I do agree with winvirus though. It's strange that Highwire was neither protected nor watched.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply

dy. posted:

I do agree with winvirus though. It's strange that Highwire was neither protected nor watched.

You agree that the bodyguard could be scum?

Assuming that's not you, that'd leave Dhaes, Cidrick, and Chili. Who do you think is scum of those?

Dhaes
Dec 1, 2006

You realize, of course, that everything I say is horseshit.

winvirus posted:

nah badger away, i think your logic fails to assess the win-win benefit of voodoos actions as scum.
if hes scum, and pander is scum...
* if pander does post a lot - great, scumbud saved, he dayvigs an obvious town lurker and resets the vote at 11th hour and swings it onto someone else (why didnt he try to then vote pander?? his posts werent convincing)
* if pander does not - he dayvigs a scumbuddy, gets basically Confirmed Town by that siiiick play, rides to the end untouched

my questions for you, dhaes, are:
a) you felt wins was strong scum but then swung on to hal yesterday: why
b) you felt wins was strong scum but then i replaced him and you aren’t pursuing me: why
c) you are intent on not seeing pander and voodoo as a possible scum duo: why

it is seeding doubt in my mind a bit, idk if the New Scum Meta is actually “put forth a lot of effort” lol i havent played mafia in like five years

a) few reasons, boils down to the fact that i felt they could both be scum with similar levels of conviction, i thought chili had a decent point, and i was busy irl at that time and didn't have a lot of time to sink into the thought process. they were both fine to me
b) after my reread, was getting a very neutral vibe from him. what looked scummy initially looked less so with hindsight and flips in mind
c) voodoo's play does not make even the least bit of sense of me if he were scumbuddies with pander - i think ive explained my reasoning for this thought process and i would just be rehashing - but thats the long and the short of it

Dhaes
Dec 1, 2006

You realize, of course, that everything I say is horseshit.

dy. posted:

Yes, it was. I didn't notice your posts.

This thing is really really dumb Dhaes. You're accusing me of trying to sneak something by that you had already publicly called me out on.

not calling you 100% scum for it, i am saying i want to keep that in mind - which is why i wrote that down in my notes during my reread.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply

dy. posted:

Can we not do that?

Given how this game has gone down, dramatic bodyguard is one of the few remaining roles with a decent chance to flush out scum. We should probably not have a discussion that could flush it out at this point in the game.

Like I'm wondering why your stance changed from here?

Dhaes
Dec 1, 2006

You realize, of course, that everything I say is horseshit.

dy. posted:

I do agree with winvirus though. It's strange that Highwire was neither protected nor watched.

thank you i loving said this at the start of d2 but you know whatever

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003

CCKeane posted:

You agree that the bodyguard could be scum?

Assuming that's not you, that'd leave Dhaes, Cidrick, and Chili. Who do you think is scum of those?
This is not something I need to agree or disagree with. In this setup, the bodyguard could be scum or town. I don't believe there is any information to suggest either conclusion is more likely than the other. You, and Pander, are doing this weird bit where you're like "the bodyguard could be scum so let's assume that the bodyguard is scum."

It is inappropriate for you to ask me this question since I'm one possible people that could be the bodyguard, if Pander is to be believed. I don't want to say anything that could help the scum find the bodyguard, since if they are town, it is a role that is very dangerous to the scum.

It's also alarming to me that this is not the first time you've pushed the town to reveal role information. I think you're probably scum, but if you're town, you should really be more careful with your questions.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003

CCKeane posted:

Like I'm wondering why your stance changed from here?
It didn't change at all, what are you talking about?

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply

dy. posted:

I do agree with winvirus though. It's strange that Highwire was neither protected nor watched.

So this is what you said before, and I'm wondering what's strange about it if you don't think scum have protective roles.

winvirus
Jan 23, 2009

You only delay the inevitable. All of this island will soon belong to me.

either the protective roles are most/all scum or they are huge dumbdumbs

Dhaes
Dec 1, 2006

You realize, of course, that everything I say is horseshit.

CCKeane posted:

So this is what you said before, and I'm wondering what's strange about it if you don't think scum have protective roles.

are they the same stance tho?

it is stupid and bad play to suss out power roles vs why didnt an obvious target get protected or watched

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003

CCKeane posted:

So this is what you said before, and I'm wondering what's strange about it if you don't think scum have protective roles.
I can't figure out if you're being intentionally dense or what. I'm saying "we don't have enough information to reliably conclude what roles the scum do or do not have." I'm not saying "the scum don't have any protective roles."

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003

Also you guys are working off of exactly one night's worth of night actions. It's not like there's an extensive history here to make inferences from.

Dhaes
Dec 1, 2006

You realize, of course, that everything I say is horseshit.

winvirus posted:

either the protective roles are most/all scum or they are huge dumbdumbs

3rd option: they didnt get picked

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003

I wish it was daytime so I could vote CCKeane.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply

Dhaes posted:

3rd option: they didnt get picked

Then you're saying Pander is lying, which is possible I suppose.

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mega dy
Dec 6, 2003

I don't think Pander is lying. That would be a dumb risk for scum to make, since it could end up being verifiable in the endgame.

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