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Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
was really hoping for an ending similar to gaolang and kaneda

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Artelier
Jan 23, 2015


If this is the closest thing to Virtua Fighter in 2020 I'll take it

Lt. Lizard
Apr 28, 2013
Huh, so am I the only one who liked this conclusion to the fight?

IIRC, Gaolong never really fought under a rule-set where ring-out would be a factor, so him overlooking it as a possible win condition and letting himself lured into one by opponent far more experienced with such rules is pretty plausible. It is also good way to drive home the point that the difference in rules between Kengan and Purgatory is not just some window-dressing, but something that's actually significant and important for the matches. Plus it's not like Gaolong jobbed, it's extremely clear that he was absolutely dominating the match and that he is the stronger fighter, regardless if it ends up being his loss or a tie due to technicality.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

Lt. Lizard posted:

Huh, so am I the only one who liked this conclusion to the fight?

IIRC, Gaolong never really fought under a rule-set where ring-out would be a factor, so him overlooking it as a possible win condition and letting himself lured into one by opponent far more experienced with such rules is pretty plausible. It is also good way to drive home the point that the difference in rules between Kengan and Purgatory is not just some window-dressing, but something that's actually significant and important for the matches. Plus it's not like Gaolong jobbed, it's extremely clear that he was absolutely dominating the match and that he is the stronger fighter, regardless if it ends up being his loss or a tie due to technicality.

I feel the same but it's more of a "bullshit but understandable" thing.

CharlestonJew
Jul 7, 2011

Illegal Hen
It's a fine outcome, we ain't playing by Kengan rules here

Zodiac5000
Jun 19, 2006

Protects the Pack!

Doctor Rope
If I'm a corporation, the idea that the potential rules allow for such an insanely random outcome to occur would be a red flag to end all red flags.

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
purgatory isn't a corporation fights competition its just an underground one. toyoda pays for everything himself

Roobanguy
May 31, 2011

yeah purgatory is just a business right now. if they win the tournament THEN they become the corporation fight competition.

Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012

Zodiac5000 posted:

If I'm a corporation, the idea that the potential rules allow for such an insanely random outcome to occur would be a red flag to end all red flags.

This is honestly the first change that would negatively impact the fighters of the Kengan Association as well. Up until this point it was only the corporations that stood to lose anything if Purgatory took over since otherwise, Purgatory's rules benefit the fighters much like Nogi's new rules. But how many really wants to lose a match because they got a ring out if you're coming from the kengan side? That's going to be killer for morale.

Zodiac5000
Jun 19, 2006

Protects the Pack!

Doctor Rope
Yeah, but if Purgatory wins they're keeping their rules, right? If I'm a corporation in the Kengan Association I have a fairly reasonable degree of confidence that the better fighter wins (barring poo poo like Raian playing with his food). Seeing an outcome where it ends up a draw despite one fighter completely outclassing the other in every way would be a concerning thing to base business on.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

yeah toyodas gonna get loving murked if he actually tried to put those rules in.

Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012

Zodiac5000 posted:

Yeah, but if Purgatory wins they're keeping their rules, right? If I'm a corporation in the Kengan Association I have a fairly reasonable degree of confidence that the better fighter wins (barring poo poo like Raian playing with his food). Seeing an outcome where it ends up a draw despite one fighter completely outclassing the other in every way would be a concerning thing to base business on.

I agree, companies would riot if they realized they could lose a billion dollar deal because of a technicality.

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010



Zodiac5000 posted:

If I'm a corporation, the idea that the potential rules allow for such an insanely random outcome to occur would be a red flag to end all red flags.

Ring outs aren't insanely random. This is 100% the case of gaolang man handling a dude so hard he forgot the rules and the guy thats been fighting it for linger exploiting it.

Under no circumstances would gaolang let it happen if he was more conscious of the rule, since he was 100% controlling the fight at that point

Fellis
Feb 14, 2012

Kid, don't threaten me. There are worse things than death, and uh, I can do all of them.
I'm fine with a Gaolang loss here, the purgatory guy realized he was outmatched and did the only winning strategy left to him. I much prefer Gaolang losing this way (and illustrating some differences between kengan and purgatory) than purgatory guy pulling out some bullshit to win with less weight/reach. Although I agree that the line about Gaolang being "too public" of a fighter for the underground is a little weird when he was an accomplished kengan fighter.

CharlestonJew
Jul 7, 2011

Illegal Hen
it does seem like a pretty huge advantage for the Purgatory guys that they've been fighting in this ruleset enough to know how to take full advantage of it, but I guess that speaks to Toyoda's negotiating power

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010
I do hope that one of the 'curbstomp' fights will be Julius , Toa or Wakatsuki just chucking a fool out of the ring like a fastball.

Evrart Claire
Jan 11, 2008

Fellis posted:

I'm fine with a Gaolang loss here, the purgatory guy realized he was outmatched and did the only winning strategy left to him. I much prefer Gaolang losing this way (and illustrating some differences between kengan and purgatory) than purgatory guy pulling out some bullshit to win with less weight/reach. Although I agree that the line about Gaolang being "too public" of a fighter for the underground is a little weird when he was an accomplished kengan fighter.

especially when ringouts are something that's more associated with certain public fighting rules than what you'd expect from an underground arena

team overhead smash
Sep 2, 2006

Team-Forest-Tree-Dog:
Smashing your way into our hearts one skylight at a time

Fellis posted:

Although I agree that the line about Gaolang being "too public" of a fighter for the underground is a little weird when he was an accomplished kengan fighter.

He's literally only fought in two Kenyan matches ever, both in the annihilation tournament two years ago. It states his match against Kaneda is his first Kenyan appearance, then he loses to Fang and spends 2 years training.

Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012

Fellis posted:

I'm fine with a Gaolang loss here, the purgatory guy realized he was outmatched and did the only winning strategy left to him. I much prefer Gaolang losing this way (and illustrating some differences between kengan and purgatory) than purgatory guy pulling out some bullshit to win with less weight/reach. Although I agree that the line about Gaolang being "too public" of a fighter for the underground is a little weird when he was an accomplished kengan fighter.

I'd be interested in what caused Carlos to make this kind of shift in mentality since he is presented as a pure boxer who stepped out of the public eye because he just couldn't get the fights he wanted. Because he went for a pretty cheap victory attempt for a guy who put his all into fighting and finding ways to keep his body on par with the fighters he was up against.

Fellis
Feb 14, 2012

Kid, don't threaten me. There are worse things than death, and uh, I can do all of them.

team overhead smash posted:

He's literally only fought in two Kenyan matches ever, both in the annihilation tournament two years ago. It states his match against Kaneda is his first Kenyan appearance, then he loses to Fang and spends 2 years training.

Oh huh, i forgot that. I thought he had fought in more before that, it was just rare because he only fought for Thailand's interests.

Caidin
Oct 29, 2011

Brought To You By posted:

I'd be interested in what caused Carlos to make this kind of shift in mentality since he is presented as a pure boxer who stepped out of the public eye because he just couldn't get the fights he wanted. Because he went for a pretty cheap victory attempt for a guy who put his all into fighting and finding ways to keep his body on par with the fighters he was up against.

I think it's that realization Cosmo had were what he really liked was winning the fight, not the fighting. Fighting Gaolang was golden opportunity I always wanted to go at this dude sorta deal until Oh poo poo, I'm getting utterly rocked over here and not even my online capoeira course can stop him.

So he gets all bitter and decides that if he can't win the fight maybe he can salvage some pride by winning the match.

klapman
Aug 27, 2012

this char is good
boring fight, i'm out

Oh Snapple!
Dec 27, 2005

Yeah it's basically Carlos throwing a fit because he was getting beaten in a straight-up fight and leveraging the rules to still get out of it with a win.

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
We all knew ring outs were a thing so I'm glad it's at least over unless one of the monsters throws someone out

Evrart Claire
Jan 11, 2008

Jose posted:

We all knew ring outs were a thing so I'm glad it's at least over unless one of the monsters throws someone out

Really I'm just sad now Kiozan isn't here to have a representative from a sport where ring outs are common.

my parents boyfriend
Jan 28, 2007

Angel of Piratey Death, Yarrr!
It reminds me of sumo but sadly no Kiozan here to take advantage of it in response.

Edit: dammit

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

lots of purgatory bootlickers itt

McTimmy
Feb 29, 2008
It'll be worth it when Julius just effortlessly chucks someone out of the ring.

Look Sharp!
Mar 24, 2013
Ringout unfamiliarity would have never happened with Kiozan

Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012

Caidin posted:

I think it's that realization Cosmo had were what he really liked was winning the fight, not the fighting. Fighting Gaolang was golden opportunity I always wanted to go at this dude sorta deal until Oh poo poo, I'm getting utterly rocked over here and not even my online capoeira course can stop him.

So he gets all bitter and decides that if he can't win the fight maybe he can salvage some pride by winning the match.

See, I was hoping to get more purgatory fighters that are bros like Jose. But instead we're just going to have a conga line of Hikaru's aren't we?

ZepiaEltnamOberon
Oct 25, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
I'm okay with Gaolang losing for the reasons other posters have mentioned, and I don't fault Carlos for going for that tactic. It gives Kengan a loss (or a draw) and instills the Kengan team with the realization that they're not fighting by their own rules anymore. At the same time, it allows Galong to preserve his aura of strength (he proved himself to be the superior fighter) instead of having him be chumped as a sacrifice.

Lt. Lizard posted:

Huh, so am I the only one who liked this conclusion to the fight?

IIRC, Gaolong never really fought under a rule-set where ring-out would be a factor, so him overlooking it as a possible win condition and letting himself lured into one by opponent far more experienced with such rules is pretty plausible. It is also good way to drive home the point that the difference in rules between Kengan and Purgatory is not just some window-dressing, but something that's actually significant and important for the matches. Plus it's not like Gaolong jobbed, it's extremely clear that he was absolutely dominating the match and that he is the stronger fighter, regardless if it ends up being his loss or a tie due to technicality.

This is probs the post I identify the most with.

Carlos is a bit disappointing though. He comes off as a cool dude initially, what with him being bros with Good Boi Jose, but then he gets pretty whiny at the end. I can understand why he's like that, but that doesn't mean I fully enjoy it.

Still, Kengan's rarely disappointed me, so it's not like this one battle/character is gonna change my opinion when it's been very good so far.

Caidin posted:

I think it's that realization Cosmo had were what he really liked was winning the fight, not the fighting. Fighting Gaolang was golden opportunity I always wanted to go at this dude sorta deal until Oh poo poo, I'm getting utterly rocked over here and not even my online capoeira course can stop him.

So he gets all bitter and decides that if he can't win the fight maybe he can salvage some pride by winning the match.

That, and potentially some jealousy, maybe? Like, Gaolang got what Carlos never had the opportunity to have in the public stage, and now he's also muscling on his turf in the underground stage. If they'd fought in the public stage and Carlos lost, he probably wouldn't have shown that sorta bitterness.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
i want julius to pick up and throw the largest guy in purgatory. he doesn't have to do anything else the entire arc. and honestly, aside from being comically large and naked he's a terrible person so that would be for the best.

ZepiaEltnamOberon
Oct 25, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
Julius adheres to the basic etiquette of society (doesn't bring in protein shakes to a diner without permission from the establishment), is willing to learn about foreign cultures (hangs out with the non-Japanese fighters to calmly discuss and learn more about Japanese culture), is trusting (legitimately believes Saw Paing when he tells the non-Japanese fighters about Japanese culture), is a hard working (taught himself how to be STRONG with books), and has a sense of shame (admonishes Nikaido for wearing his terrible clothes in public).

Begemot
Oct 14, 2012

The One True Oden

Literally every fighter except the actual psychopaths like Setsuna and Meguro were humanized in the 4koma chapters, it's part of what makes them so great.

I'm sure that once all these Purgatory dudes get backstory and have fights, the ones that aren't secret Worm spies will also turn out to be perfectly friendly.

verbal enema
May 23, 2009

onlymarfans.com
Even Meguro thought Nikaido was a pervert

also he looked cute in his winter scarf

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Begemot posted:

Literally every fighter except the actual psychopaths like Setsuna and Meguro were humanized in the 4koma chapters, it's part of what makes them so great.

I'm sure that once all these Purgatory dudes get backstory and have fights, the ones that aren't secret Worm spies will also turn out to be perfectly friendly.

I hope after the manga is finished Doreamon just starts putting out a lot of 4komas of the characters.

ZepiaEltnamOberon
Oct 25, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
Nikaido really benefits from the side-chapters/comics.

In the manga, he's mainly just ovreconfident and gets owned.

Then in the side-chapter, we find out that he's the most personable/talkative member of Hayami's hired help.

Then in the 4koma comics, we find out that he used to be super shy as a kid, so maybe his current affinity for revealing/terrible clothes and talkative nature is a result of his efforts to overcome his childhood issues.

Plus, he leaves flowers on Meguro's grave in the end of the series, and combined with the affable nature he demonstrates in the side-chapter, we can assume that Nikaido's actually a pretty decent teammate.

His underlings also seem to have no qualms speaking to him, so he's probably a decent boss as well.

In short, Nikaido's an okay dude when he's not threatening to ruin a person's business on behalf of his capitalist pig of a boss.

Artelier
Jan 23, 2015


My favourite part of Nikaido was that he brought enough seasickness pills for everyone. Very considerate!

Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012

ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:

and I don't fault Carlos for going for that tactic.
It's like getting out of the way of a sumo wrestler during a match. It may be a legal move but nobody will like you for it. Except the other Purgatory fighters because apparently this is something they take pride in.

quote:

This is probs the post I identify the most with.

Carlos is a bit disappointing though. He comes off as a cool dude initially, what with him being bros with Good Boi Jose, but then he gets pretty whiny at the end. I can understand why he's like that, but that doesn't mean I fully enjoy it.
Carlos lost a lot of stock in a really short amount of time. He went from "Only a boxer can beat a boxer", "My fists are faster than light", "look at this winning smile" to getting punched in his face and unleashing the "real Carlos Medel" with all 20 hours of his correspondence class Capoeira. Then that didn't work and he went back to boxing which also wasn't working so he took the only out available to him that could get him the win.

It just sucks that the guy called El Dorado has no values in the end if winning is all that matters to him. It's honestly a continuation of his fall from grace and the public eye. The man is metaphorically and literally a shell of his former self at this point.

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AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

I mean, Meguro and Setsuna both had obvious severe mental health issues as well which humanizes them as well.


If you want an actual psychopath, Bando mcstretch Armstrong serial killer is who you should look at.

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