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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Is it ever at any point made clear how many wizards there actually are or the scale of wizard socitey? The only prominent employers ever seen is the ministry of magic amd hogwarts. What level of private imdustry is there amd of theres none how is the ministry funded? Is Wizard society secretly socialist or communist? the ministry consider themselves part of the regular British government even though they don't actually report to anyone or have elections or anything, so i'd guess they just steal a bunch of muggle taxes for funding
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May 29, 2020 22:08
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dordreff posted:the ministry consider themselves part of the regular British government even though they don't actually report to anyone or have elections or anything, so i'd guess they just steal a bunch of muggle taxes for funding them just stealing the fruits of muggle labor would be way cooler than whatever secret economy bullshit
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May 29, 2020 22:36
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I think for like, minister of magic, there is some kinda election or some such. But obviously mugged aren't included in this or anything. reignofevil fucked around with this message at 22:50 on May 29, 2020 |
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May 29, 2020 22:47
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Sydin posted:Harry Potter really is the story of a rich, privileged white guy failing upwards until he becomes a cop. "Yer a wizard 'arry and you're basically the most important person alive as far as us other wizzes is concerned! I'm here to take you to our magical world!" "Cor that's great 'Agrid, the literal giant I just met! do wizards have footie" "Well, sort of, bu-" "What kinda toys and candy do they have" "Oh, well, a lot, I gue-" "Ehhh, I'm bored with hearing about all that, I'm just going to hang out with the first kid I meet. I'll figure stuff out by hearing his incredulous reactions whenever something normal to him is novel to me."
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May 29, 2020 23:09
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reignofevil posted:I think for like, minister of magic, there is some kinda election or some such. there's no elections mentioned in the books and all the changes in minister seem to talk about it like they were directly appointed (Fudge is first mentioned as having been given the job when Dumbledore turned it down, Scrimgeour is introduced by Fudge going to Tony Blair and saying "i got fired, here's my replacement", the dude who turns into a sea urchin gets appointed by Voldemort, and Kingsley is appointed as "interim minister" and just stays there) but the wiki says Rowling claimed they have elections every 7 years, so i guess you're right
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May 30, 2020 00:28
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If you hold the stated workings of wizard society up to anything beyond cursory scrutiny it completely falls apart so
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May 30, 2020 00:41
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If its just a division of normal British government and the PM appoints them then doesn't the Minister of Magic need to hold a seat in normal muggle parlaiment? Not familiar with the British constitution particularly as applied to Children's fantasy novels.
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May 30, 2020 01:35
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Do the pocket dimension gated communities where wizards live so they don't have to consort with muggles have their own parliamentary districts? What are the wizard opinions on Brexit? The whole secret world concept doesn't really work well if you put a lot of dramatic weight on it, especially when the crux of the story is a guy who is attacking the normals that they're not allowed to know about to defend against. It kinda allows kids to imagine that the secret world is just around the corner for them to fall into, but otherwise it just creates all these weird holes and workarounds. The incredibly close proximity between wizards and muggles kinda intensifies things. Like if the secret world is another planet or dimension or a mile underground, it's a lot different. Also it's fine for a more chill story where they don't put a lot of drama about keeping the secret for no clear reason. But usually, with any story about some big magic fantasy thing, people want to know about the big magic fantasy thing and not how it doesn't change anything in the world around it. It's such a weird unfantastical premise.
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May 30, 2020 03:06
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Sydin posted:If you hold the stated workings of wizard society up to anything beyond cursory scrutiny it completely falls apart so
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May 30, 2020 03:13
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I demand more verisimilitude from my Children's / Young Adult books by a novice writer!
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May 30, 2020 04:21
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Daikloktos posted:Xenophillius is able to generally get away with wearing what Krum associates as Grindlewald's mark to the point of wanting to belt him straight away for wearing it. Made it seem like Britain wasn't too directly involved with him. I think that's because he's generally considered a kook, and the whole Deathly Hallows things is regarded mostly as a fairy tale. Dumbledore's duel with Grindelwald is famous, and it's one of the main reasons why Dumbledore is sorta a national hero.
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May 30, 2020 06:44
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I dunno, whenever I start going over Harry Potter in my head, I just start thinking of a bunch of other stuff that occupies the same space that I'd rather think about. Like the contemporary series I preferred was the Bartimaeus Trilogy, which is about wizards being an aristocratic upper class of assholes who are overthrown at the end of the series, and the main viewpoint character is actually a magical spirit servant to the foolish child prodigy wizard. I also remember having more fun with Artemis Fowl, although I dropped off the series after a while and I heard that it went downhill. It provided a more elaborate setting with magical creatures coexisting that I don't think any were human racial stereotypes. A whole lot of it is just a buddy-cop story. More recently, I don't read children's or y/a literature any more, but I do read a lot of manga. Witch Hat Atelier presents a world where magic is common, but the way of doing it is a more closely-kept secret because back in the day there were big huge magic wars that they had to scale back from. The main character learns magic, but also the outlaw witches want to tempt her into using the forbidden arts (that are forbidden because they hurt people and ruin lives). The manga Flying Witch is just a peaceful slice of life about a witch in high school. She doesn't really make an effort to keep magic secret, even though the setting is just the real world. It doesn't matter. It's fine. It's fun. The Ancient Magus's Bride has a girl get whisked off to a world of magic and learning to value herself in between learning and fighting monsters. No actual romance involved. The series even recently has moved on to her going to a school to learn alternative forms of magic. It's not exactly clear how secret magic is from the "normal" world, but it doesn't really seem to matter much. There's also Fullmetal Alchemist, which is just really good all around.
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May 30, 2020 07:03
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Sydin posted:If you hold the stated workings of wizard society up to anything beyond cursory scrutiny it completely falls apart so To be fair this also applies to the real british government.
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May 30, 2020 07:15
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MonsieurChoc posted:To be fair this also applies to the real british government. Like 70% of Harry Potter "not making sense" or whatever is just non-British people not understanding British cultural touchstones.
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May 30, 2020 10:35
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Daikloktos posted:Xenophillius is able to generally get away with wearing what Krum associates as Grindlewald's mark to the point of wanting to belt him straight away for wearing it. Made it seem like Britain wasn't too directly involved with him. It's a swastika joke. Krum sees Xenophilius wearing a swastika at the wedding and goes "what the gently caress" and Xenophilius is all "it's an ancient Buddhist love symbol, honest!" e: naturally the other Brits just assume he's a big racist and don't care.
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May 30, 2020 10:46
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SlothfulCobra posted:I dunno, whenever I start going over Harry Potter in my head, I just start thinking of a bunch of other stuff that occupies the same space that I'd rather think about. Man the Bartimeaus trilogy ruled. In the second book a new protagonist is introduced who is a member of the "commoner" (non-wizard. we're not being subtle with metaphors here) resistance. As a kid she gets in legal trouble for damaging an rear end in a top hat magicians car during cricket. Against everyone's advice she tries to fight it in court and almost wins because the guy didn't show up. Just before judgement, he arrives and then the judge is like "oh well obviously he's a respectable memebr of society. Have a massive fine for your impudence, you literal child."
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May 30, 2020 14:16
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Shoutout to the Bartimaeus
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May 30, 2020 14:20
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i don't know anything about the ancient magus' bride, but based on the artwork the ancient magus is like a badass wendigo or some poo poo so i was really hoping the bride part was actually 'apprentice' and not '4-chan poo poo' but wasn't holding out hope because anime will betray you on that one
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May 31, 2020 02:37
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Here's some poo poo, The Grindelwald is finally making me appreciate J.K. Rowling's strengths as an author of novels, *winds up and takes a wide swing with the club, whacking the ball skyward. Gracefully, it arcs and dips down, past the sand trap and tees and tocks soundly into the cup. A Hole in one.* Because she sure can't write a script!
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May 31, 2020 04:09
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Hodgepodge posted:i don't know anything about the ancient magus' bride, but based on the artwork the ancient magus is like a badass wendigo or some poo poo so i was really hoping the bride part was actually 'apprentice' and not '4-chan poo poo' but wasn't holding out hope because anime will betray you on that one Wizards being weird horny rear end old perverts going after way younger women who just want to learn magic is way older than anime
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May 31, 2020 04:51
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galagazombie posted:Like 70% of Harry Potter "not making sense" or whatever is just non-British people not understanding British cultural touchstones. Most British media leaves out a lot of their particular weirdness, but when you get a story that goes deep into it, it can feel like it takes place on mars. Hodgepodge posted:i don't know anything about the ancient magus' bride, but based on the artwork the ancient magus is like a badass wendigo or some poo poo so i was really hoping the bride part was actually 'apprentice' and not '4-chan poo poo' but wasn't holding out hope because anime will betray you on that one It does basically mean apprentice. So far as I've read, there's no typical awful anime fanservice or skimpy tight clothes or implied sexuality, although maybe the anime added some in for all I know.
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May 31, 2020 05:00
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^^^ oh good. like the magus looks more like a forest spirit than a person and marriage can be more like being chosen as the shaman or whatever for a god or spirit, in a context where everything isn't an excuse to be horny for kids Ghost Leviathan posted:Wizards being weird horny rear end old perverts going after way younger women who just want to learn magic is way older than anime literally what got merlin in the end Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 05:18 on May 31, 2020 |
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May 31, 2020 05:15
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Hodgepodge posted:^^^ oh good. like the magus looks more like a forest spirit than a person and marriage can be more like being chosen as the shaman or whatever for a god or spirit, in a context where everything isn't an excuse to be horny for kids Yeah there's absolutely no weird sex stuff at all. They are absolutely building a very slow romance between Chitose and Elias (the forest spirit dude) though. They have a pretty hosed up and co-dependent relationship with the story mostly focusing on how broken Chitose is as a person while Elias is going through a fairly standard 'learning to be a person' arc.
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May 31, 2020 05:25
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If I could smoke weed with one Harry Potter character it would definitely be Hagrid.
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May 31, 2020 17:47
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other options include the lovegoods, the hippie astology teacher, and the house elves
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May 31, 2020 17:55
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Check it. You smoke weed with Mrs. Sprout. She's the one who taught herbology. One smoke sesh and you're set for life because now you know life fifty magical ways to get high, have a cure for your allergies and also occasionally you'll poop out solid gold.
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May 31, 2020 18:10
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reignofevil posted:Check it. You smoke weed with Mrs. Sprout. She's the one who taught herbology. One smoke sesh and you're set for life because now you know life fifty magical ways to get high, have a cure for your allergies and also occasionally you'll poop out solid gold. She's too square. Mrs. Sprout is the wizarding world equivalent of a stock photo of a bunch of nonthreatening white people playing Jenga in an article about how profitable it is to invest in the cannabis industry. Plus you just know she'd keep going on a ramble about the history of a strain or the best pH for the soil without passing the pipe first.
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May 31, 2020 18:30
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When snape was brewing up that secret werewolf potion it was mrs. sprout who was passing him that contraband under the table.
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May 31, 2020 19:12
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The shrooms are so good you turn into a little gnome who lives on a toadstool and smokes toad poison from his pipe
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May 31, 2020 23:31
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What was even Dumbledore's endgame anyway? He was grooming Harry to willingly let Voldemort kill him, but then what? Voldemort didn't even die when his piece of soul in Harry's scar moved on, so he would've just kept trucking on. And even if Voldemort died, his followers were still firmly entrenched in positions of power and have all their resources.
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Jun 1, 2020 21:39
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Exactly, Voldemort is powerful sure but what's more dangerous is how many people he got to go along with his fascist death cult. I mean who would follow a leader that racist and incompetent ??? can't even kill a baby!
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Jun 1, 2020 22:22
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amigolupus posted:What was even Dumbledore's endgame anyway? He was grooming Harry to willingly let Voldemort kill him, but then what? Voldemort didn't even die when his piece of soul in Harry's scar moved on, so he would've just kept trucking on. And even if Voldemort died, his followers were still firmly entrenched in positions of power and have all their resources. One thing at a time, as I always say. Setting up a child as part of a Rube Goldberg machine to kill the Fascist Wizard Antichrist is enough work as it is.
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Jun 1, 2020 22:39
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I guess since Harry was a horcrux, he was going to have to be involved in the killing of Voldemort one way or another, but I only remember it seeming like Dumbledore had some plan for Harry in the first book. Otherwise, he just kinda leaves Harry alone until after Voldemort gets fully revived corporeally, but in an abstruse way that left wiggle room for whatever JK Rowling decided after the fact.Sodomy Hussein posted:One thing at a time, as I always say. Setting up a child as part of a Rube Goldberg machine to kill the Fascist Wizard Antichrist is enough work as it is. Should've just gone with a Rubeus machine to kill Voldemort with an army of magical creatures. Did Hagrid ever get his wand rights reinstated after Harry cleared his name?
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Jun 2, 2020 00:31
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Is it ever at any point made clear how many wizards there actually are or the scale of wizard socitey? The only prominent employers ever seen is the ministry of magic amd hogwarts. What level of private imdustry is there amd of theres none how is the ministry funded? Is Wizard society secretly socialist or communist? Yes, and if I recall she said it was like 6000 people in the U.K. , which even as a kid was the moment I realized this was all really dumb. Like imagine the stupidest little town that you drive through in the crappy part of your state, and that's the entire population of wizards in the UK. And that's almost the only people that they gently caress. Worse than Iceland.
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Jun 2, 2020 01:45
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there is no magic, just a small population so inbred that it collectively believes that mumbling in latin is responsible for their hallucinations
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Jun 2, 2020 02:04
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Pick posted:Yes, and if I recall she said it was like 6000 people in the U.K. , which even as a kid was the moment I realized this was all really dumb. Like imagine the stupidest little town that you drive through in the crappy part of your state, and that's the entire population of wizards in the UK. And that's almost the only people that they gently caress. Worse than Iceland. Ok so I think the entire British wizard population shows up for hogwarts feasts, parties and social events cool.
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Jun 2, 2020 02:24
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maybe every highly populated area in the wizarding world is instanced on special occasions so we're only seeing the population of the instance that the main characters are in it also dynamically sorts you onto the instances populated with the highest concentration of people you've previously interacted with this process is way too boring and technical to be of interest to anyone but mmo players let alone single moms powered by an aspirational cocaine habit so rowling didn't bother writing it down Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Jun 2, 2020 |
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Jun 2, 2020 02:59
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If Rowling didn't want her readers to over-think the exact mechanics of irrelevant details of the story she shouldn't have written a fantasy novel.
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Jun 2, 2020 04:28
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Fantasy authors, and frankly people in general, are really bad at estimating how large populations need to be to support various institutions and levels of society so Im not blaming her. She also never said hard numbers as I recall in the books so what ever else shes gurgling out from her bowels is even less relevant. I think my favorite was the post apocalyptic sci-fi setting where an entire self sufficient agrarian community was capable of maintaining and upgraded fighter jets with a population of like 50 people.
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Jun 2, 2020 04:41
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6000 people is like, a large-ish WOW server. Or the largest city in the world around 4000 bce.
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