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I watched the video. Imo, she cherry picks one example of someone saying they're Muslim and like Zack Snyder, mocks that person for linking her a personal essay and moves on. She does take the time to say she isn't speaking about average snyder fans just super fans. It also takes her 4 minutes of a 10 minute video to get to why she thinks Dawn is islamophobic, and again her claim as presented currently is based around 3 frames from the title sequence. Which was designed by Kyle Cooper from Prologue Studios. Though I'm sure her longer analysis will use more examples, her twitter includes an example that takes the Christian preacher blaming gays for zombies seriously, which is dubious. I find it kinda funny that she mocks the linking of a Superman essay to her while her own tweet brings up Superman. https://twitter.com/MaggieMaeFish/status/1260641575928922112?s=19 And my opinion, based on a Sarah Polley story, is that Zack bought into some of the jingoistic rhetoric from that time, but I don't really find Dawn to be an example of anti Muslim filmmaking. As for her saying no one saw Dawn as being satirical here's an interview with Snyder from 2004 where the interviewer asks about the satire and how they thought Snyder's satire was "broader, subtler," than the original's.
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May 31, 2020 20:51
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Libluini posted:Didn't Zack Snyder poo poo himself to death or something? There's Zack Snyder - divisive filmmaker And Zak S/Smith/Sabbath - an abusive sociopathic stalker who used lovely commonwealth libel laws to bully the last mod of the Traditional Games subforum into personally apologizing to him
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May 31, 2020 20:52
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Zack Snyder does not in any way compare to Zak S, they're on completely different levels of person. Zack Snyder is a filmmaker with annoying fans, Zak S is an rapist who abuses SLAPP lawsuits to bully people
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May 31, 2020 20:56
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Nuns with Guns posted:And Zak S/Smith/Sabbath - an abusive sociopathic stalker who used lovely commonwealth libel laws to bully the last mod of the Traditional Games subforum into personally apologizing to him The 'abusive sociopathic stalker' stuff I've read about, but this is the first I've heard of him coming after a SA mod. What's the story behind that?
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May 31, 2020 20:56
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Zack Snyder movies are bad
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May 31, 2020 20:57
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Kyle Cooper is great, he did the titles for Spider-Man (2002), and Godzilla: Final Wars (2004) which are among my favourite titles sequences of the last twenty years, but I think he, like most creative departments on a film, will be directed.
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May 31, 2020 21:00
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FuturePastNow posted:Zack Snyder movies are bad 
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May 31, 2020 21:11
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Max Wilco posted:The 'abusive sociopathic stalker' stuff I've read about, but this is the first I've heard of him coming after a SA mod. What's the story behind that? He sued ettin for defamation after they called zak a rapist piece of poo poo on twitter.
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May 31, 2020 21:16
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Karloff posted:Kyle Cooper is great, he did the titles for Spider-Man (2002), and Godzilla: Final Wars (2004) which are among my favourite titles sequences of the last twenty years, but I think he, like most creative departments on a film, will be directed. I don't disagree with this, but it was created and added after initial test screenings so I'm not sure how much creative input/collaboration was done to accomplish something requested by the studio after screenings. It seems like a purposeful omission to not discuss that context. And again it's about 3 seconds of the entire film, and Islam isn't present in any other portion of the film, as far as I can recall.
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May 31, 2020 21:28
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MacheteZombie posted:I watched the video. Imo, she cherry picks one example of someone saying they're Muslim and like Zack Snyder, mocks that person for linking her a personal essay and moves on. She does take the time to say she isn't speaking about average snyder fans just super fans. I don't know what essay she was linked to, but making an offhand remark about how Snyder was given Superman after making a potentially problematic zombie movie doesn't mean it fits to counter assertions of Islamophobia in Dawn of the Dead by linking to an essay specifically analyzing the Superman movie. If response tweet was only addressing the implication that it's bad he got Superman with "Snyder's Superman movie was brilliant for X reasons" that'd be a bit different. MacheteZombie posted:It also takes her 4 minutes of a 10 minute video to get to why she thinks Dawn is islamophobic, and again her claim as presented currently is based around 3 frames from the title sequence. Which was designed by Kyle Cooper from Prologue Studios. Though I'm sure her longer analysis will use more examples, her twitter includes an example that takes the Christian preacher blaming gays for zombies seriously, which is dubious. Are you implying that any potential Islamophobia in the first few frames of the title sequence wouldn't be Snyder's fault? I mean, to be honest, I took that portion of the intro as an implication that the zombie outbreak originated in the middle east and spread out from there. It does kind of play on the then-current fear of "radical Islam" spreading globally, and even that article you linked seems to pick up on that: quote:Whereas Romero's original film was in part a metaphor for American consumerism, the title sequence for the updated Dawn of the Dead touches upon the idea of Holy War as harbinger to the apocalypse, and details the consequences for the media when it decides to ask tough questions as the feeding is already upon us (they are shot). It's been a long time since I saw the movie though, so I don't remember if they specify where the zombie virus came from later on. I think it does come down to whether you think Snyder was sincerely buying into the rhetoric at the time, using the movie to grapple with it himself, or parodying it. It does remind me of a notable webcomic about a zombie/monster apocalypse that was set off in Europe by "illegal refugees" reaching Spain via boat, which might be biasing my response a bit. MacheteZombie posted:And my opinion, based on a Sarah Polley story, is that Zack bought into some of the jingoistic rhetoric from that time, but I don't really find Dawn to be an example of anti Muslim filmmaking. Yeah, I don't buy that someone, somewhere didn't immediately read Dawn of the Dead as satire, or that Snyder wasn't intending for satirical/deconstructive elements. Like, I don't think it's possible for a skilled filmmaker to be unaware or oblivious to the commentary the original film was going for, or attempt something similar in a remake. Max Wilco posted:The 'abusive sociopathic stalker' stuff I've read about, but this is the first I've heard of him coming after a SA mod. What's the story behind that? Ettin and most of the tabletop rpg posters on Traditional Games have been critical of Zak S for years. Zak posted on TG for a while until he was banned for being a self-obsessed, argumentative fuckwad, and he kind of pathologically hates anyone associated with SA. Ettin was probably an easy target since he publishes tabletop games under his IRL name, so it was easy for Zak to keep tabs on him. Ettin also stayed vocally critical of Zak this whole time and liked mocking him on twitter. So Zak served him, and Ettin had to settle out of court. Part of the settlement agreement was posting this thread to the forums as some sad attempt to humiliate Ettin. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 21:48 on May 31, 2020 |
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May 31, 2020 21:36
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Nuns with Guns posted:There's Zack Snyder - divisive filmmaker Ha ha, now I feel like I owe Zack Snyder an apology. But to be fair, with a name like "Zack Snyder", well that name just sounds like a villain, you know? What kind of movies did he do? Pretty lovely ones, I assume with a name like that.
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May 31, 2020 21:37
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Libluini posted:Ha ha, now I feel like I owe Zack Snyder an apology. But to be fair, with a name like "Zack Snyder", well that name just sounds like a villain, you know? the big ones are 300, watchmen, dawn of the dead (2004?), most of the new superman trilogy or whatever you wanna call it, and sucker punch
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May 31, 2020 21:40
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New Quinton Reviews! His deep dive into the shameful legacy of the history channel continues with Bad Nazi documentaries! https://youtu.be/maeO6Isb_So It's really good! Check it out!
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May 31, 2020 21:44
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Super Eyepatch Wolf looks at a creepy AF manga and discusses emotional horror.
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May 31, 2020 21:49
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Nuns with Guns posted:Yeah, I don't buy that someone, somewhere didn't immediately read Dawn of the Dead as satire, or that Snyder wasn't intending for satirical/deconstructive elements. Like, I don't think it's possible for a skilled filmmaker to be unaware or oblivious to the commentary the original film was going for, or attempt something similar in a remake. Especially given James Gunn as the scriptwriter. Even if Snyder didn't know, I'm sure Gunn did.
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May 31, 2020 22:04
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Nuns with Guns posted:I don't know what essay she was linked to, but making an offhand remark about how Snyder was given Superman after making a potentially problematic zombie movie doesn't mean it fits to counter assertions of Islamophobia in Dawn of the Dead by linking to an essay specifically analyzing the Superman movie. If response tweet was only addressing the implication that it's bad he got Superman with "Snyder's Superman movie was brilliant for X reasons" that'd be a bit different. To be honest, it doesn't really matter if Zack Snyder made the intro or not but it's at least worth pointing out that someone else did, just for the sake of due diligence. A person can read whatever they want into a film, but I think adding "Then we gave him Superman" kind of shows your hand a bit - that you may not really care to examine and engage with the material you're critiquing. We'll see how it goes with the rest of the videos but if you honestly can take two or three seconds of a film and extrapolate that the film is Islamophobic, take some evangelical's hate-mongering as gospel and say the film is also homophobic then turn around and have a hard time seeing what fans like or read into the Superman films' themes, imagery and dialogue then you never really cared about thoughtful critique and just treating it like some Kirk Cameron project to point and laugh at. That's fine too, if that's what you're presenting, but if it's presented as some serious critique then, goodness how the standards of film critique have fallen. The intro to Dawn 2004 is online if you want to watch the thing for yourself and see what you get from it.
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May 31, 2020 22:13
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you shouldn't capitalize af like that because my first thought reading this post was "a creepy Air Force manga?"
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May 31, 2020 22:23
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Hey now, there could be a creepy airforce manga somewhere.
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May 31, 2020 22:26
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Arcsquad12 posted:Hey now, there could be a creepy airforce manga somewhere. Imagine Top Gun as written by Lovecraft
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May 31, 2020 22:29
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Arcsquad12 posted:Hey now, there could be a creepy airforce manga somewhere. The Saga of Tanya The Evil
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May 31, 2020 22:29
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sexpig by night posted:The Saga of Tanya The Evil Isn't that an Isikai about how a dude gets reincarnated as a 14 year old girl who is basically The Red Barron? Edit: Just read the synopsis of it and it sounds like a r/atheism post that makes you wanna punch the guy who wrote it. BigRed0427 fucked around with this message at 22:37 on May 31, 2020 |
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May 31, 2020 22:35
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BigRed0427 posted:Isn't that an Isikai about how a dude gets reincarnated as a 14 year old girl who is basically The Red Barron? yea it's actually pretty good because the bit is he's this utterly freakshow repressed sallaryman who sees this as his chance to vent all his aggression and ~SUPER GOOD TACTICS~ and most people around Tanya treat her like a fuckin cryptid and it's very clear she in no way is cool or admirable or respected. Also dunno if it got posted yet but Quinton continued his History Channel Downfall series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maeO6Isb_So "Content warning, I'll be discussing suicide...counter content warning, it's Hitler's suicide so who gives a gently caress"
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May 31, 2020 22:37
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sexpig by night posted:yea it's actually pretty good because the bit is he's this utterly freakshow repressed sallaryman who sees this as his chance to vent all his aggression and ~SUPER GOOD TACTICS~ and most people around Tanya treat her like a fuckin cryptid and it's very clear she in no way is cool or admirable or respected. I'd say the main downfall of Tanya is that it sort forgets how easy it is to glorify war/militarism. But there is definitely a strain of "look how dumb Tanya is" and how big a successful failure Tanya is.
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May 31, 2020 22:40
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Argas posted:I'd say the main downfall of Tanya is that it sort forgets how easy it is to glorify war/militarism. But there is definitely a strain of "look how dumb Tanya is" and how big a successful failure Tanya is. yea it for sure hits the 'you can't make an anti-war piece of media about war' zone and yea it does kinda involve at least a few moments of 'ha ha look how cool these...uh...alternate magic nazis....are....poo poo....' but I think at least the anime is solid at keeping the underlying joke of 'Tanya is a stubborn moron who could end all of this by just acknowledging that they literally met god personally but is too into this power fantasy to do it' and 'you 100% can fall upwards in this military' to avoid getting TOO bad there.
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May 31, 2020 22:45
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Jimbot posted:To be honest, it doesn't really matter if Zack Snyder made the intro or not but it's at least worth pointing out that someone else did, just for the sake of due diligence. A person can read whatever they want into a film, but I think adding "Then we gave him Superman" kind of shows your hand a bit - that you may not really care to examine and engage with the material you're critiquing. We'll see how it goes with the rest of the videos but if you honestly can take two or three seconds of a film and extrapolate that the film is Islamophobic, take some evangelical's hate-mongering as gospel and say the film is also homophobic then turn around and have a hard time seeing what fans like or read into the Superman films' themes, imagery and dialogue then you never really cared about thoughtful critique and just treating it like some Kirk Cameron project to point and laugh at. That's fine too, if that's what you're presenting, but if it's presented as some serious critique then, goodness how the standards of film critique have fallen. I did watch it again while I was watching her video. The evangelical "gays caused zombies" bit is as on-the-nose as the Christ imagery with Superman and I can't see it as anything besides being intentional. I can't find Maggie's specific tweet regarding it in that chain that was linked, so it must be buried in a reply that I don't care to go looking for. I'll take you guys at your word that she framed it that way for the sake of an honest discussion, and I don't agree with that assertion that it would mean the movie is homophobic. However, I do think leading the movie with those frames, even if it amounts to like a max 10 seconds total of screen time, does give them a lot more weight than they would have in other contexts and it's perfectly fitting to start a short prologue series talking about a short fragment of the film. It's also possible for something to have background details that are inherently problematic without it being a complete or overbearing statement on the evils of Islam. I'd also say that plenty of people have taken just as few fragments of movies and extrapolated interesting readings out of them, like there's that famous example of SuperMechaGodzilla hyping everyone up over watching the trailer of Battleship. Really, I'd have liked to see her dig into it more. Maybe she will in the actual videos? Then again, maybe not since showing any real movie footage has a rough 100% chance of demonetizing or flagging the video.... thanks YouTube! Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 23:02 on May 31, 2020 |
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May 31, 2020 22:46
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I don’t watch/read Tanya but from what I know it’s written by an open socialist and the social commentary of “cutthroat businessman gets reincarnated as a murderous fascist brat and fits into the role like a glove” isn’t exactly subtle
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May 31, 2020 22:52
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Nuns with Guns posted:I did watch it again while I was watching her video. The movie doesn't lead with the title sequence. The opening scene is Sarah Polley having a normal day/evening then being attacked by a little white zombie girl, who infects Sarah's husband then her fleeing in her car and crashing it. Then the title sequence. I started a longer post to respond to the one you did for me upthread but I know most threads hate being bogged down in Snyder chat so if you want to talk about it some more I can PM you more of my thoughts and let the thread move on.
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May 31, 2020 22:59
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Argas posted:I'd say the main downfall of Tanya is that it sort forgets how easy it is to glorify war/militarism. But there is definitely a strain of "look how dumb Tanya is" and how big a successful failure Tanya is. I think it stumbles more than it succeeds but it also beats home that the psychopath that inhabited Tanya is doing all this crap for so they can get a cushy position of fame, riches and power but because they're so good at the military killing, and was given that power by the piece of poo poo god, they're forced to do the same crap over and over again by the leadership. So he went from a crappy, miserable sallaryman to a crappy, miserable war criminal. At least that's the impression I got from the show. I never read the manga.
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May 31, 2020 23:10
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Dawgstar posted:Especially given James Gunn as the scriptwriter. Even if Snyder didn't know, I'm sure Gunn did. Maggie covered that in her video - Gunn only did the initial drafts and none of those that exist online have the sequence she was discussing. He doesn't have anything to do with the scene in question.
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May 31, 2020 23:10
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Augus posted:I don’t watch/read Tanya but from what I know it’s written by an open socialist and the social commentary of “cutthroat businessman gets reincarnated as a murderous fascist brat and fits into the role like a glove” isn’t exactly subtle
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May 31, 2020 23:18
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I was about to edit with this but since my last post is already quoted I'll post it here instead: I forgot to add but Maggie has been pretty clear she dislikes the Snyder DC films, but there's also not really enough of her arguments presented yet (at least on her video channel) as to why, so I can't really tell if she's dismissing everything fans like or read into the Superman films right now. I do see a tweet in the prior tweet chain where she said there were fun parts in Dawn of the Dead, and she admits she loves a lot of films other people find trashy, too, which sounds like she's acknowledging that people who do the same thing with Snyder films are valid. MacheteZombie posted:The movie doesn't lead with the title sequence. The opening scene is Sarah Polley having a normal day/evening then being attacked by a little white zombie girl, who infects Sarah's husband then her fleeing in her car and crashing it. Then the title sequence. Ah, that explains why I couldn't remember the title sequence well... I'm not really interested in Snyder Chat in the archetypal sense where it all devolves into two groups going "nuh uh" and "yeah huh" over Art in progressively exhausting ways. (Because I'm not in the mood for that right now vs. because I hate the idea of it completely.) Or in the uh... twitter way where one side calls everyone nincompoops for not seeing the truth and the other side calls everyone some category of political extremists. Snyder himself has said some stuff I find uncomfortable on a personal level independent of his movies, but I think it's fun and fine to discuss his movies on their own merits, too. e- The discourse thing isn't even exclusive to Snyder, really. Talking about MCU stuff, Ghostbusters 2009, and Star Wars on the internet is all draining enough that I marvel at people who have the energy to commit to it. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 23:29 on May 31, 2020 |
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May 31, 2020 23:20
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Terrible Opinions posted:But then immediately falling into the trap of believing that either of those synonymous groups are competent. eh kinda, but not really. I mean it's more that those groups allow you to fall upwards if you're connected and cushioned well enough than real 'competence'. The only genuinely 'good' soldiers tend to be the conscripted grunts who really don't have a ton of loyalty beyond 'look I'm just trying to not get killed here', Tanya, mr creepy doctor, the general dude, they're all kinda oafs.
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May 31, 2020 23:31
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sexpig by night posted:
Yeah I just posted it (scroll up lmao) maybe nobody saw it cuz I'm sure half the people here have me on ignore by now lmao
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May 31, 2020 23:33
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I Will Never Scroll Up: The Poster's Creed
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May 31, 2020 23:38
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Spoilers(?) I guess for Quinton's video but using a dead Jewish man's photo as definitive proof of Adolf Hitler surviving the war is intensely ironic and also gross as gently caress.
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May 31, 2020 23:42
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Vanderdeath posted:Spoilers(?) I guess for Quinton's video but using a dead Jewish man's photo as definitive proof of Adolf Hitler surviving the war is intensely ironic and also gross as gently caress. yea I wanted to say something but I genuinely didn't want to spoil that amazing moment. MOE loving HOWARD, JEWISH ICON, YOU THOUGHT HE WAS HITLER YOU ABSOLUTE CARTOONS
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May 31, 2020 23:43
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Its good to see Jim Sterling, Abby Russell, Pat and Woolie from castle super beast come out in vocal support of gently caress The Police, and also how much this infuriates the people who somehow expected them not to have these views
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May 31, 2020 23:53
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I’m going to guess that this video doesn’t talk about how when she made a bunch of spurious claims about islamophobia in Dawn 2004, a bunch of actual Muslims told her that it wasn’t cool for her to be making poo poo up but she decided to just double down on it anyway
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Jun 1, 2020 00:01
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Yvonmukluk posted:Maggie covered that in her video - Gunn only did the initial drafts and none of those that exist online have the sequence she was discussing. He doesn't have anything to do with the scene in question.
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Jun 1, 2020 00:10
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Jamie Faith posted:Yeah I just posted it (scroll up lmao) Happens all the time in this thread, last page 3 people posted that double dare video, not one of them seemed to notice
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