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Martytoof posted:Wait, somehow I managed to miss this in all the discussion — As with Discovery, that explains a lot.
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May 31, 2020 09:33
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Martytoof posted:You know, for as advanced a ship as Voyager is supposed to be, every other episode has someone overriding the transporter controls. *Enemy ship fires a single shot* our transporters have been knocked out! Every single late season Voyager episode.
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May 31, 2020 10:49
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Martytoof posted:Wait, somehow I managed to miss this in all the discussion — um no i think you'll find that michael chabon won an award so didnt need to do anything else like plan a show out right deathplague. you hack fraud birb
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May 31, 2020 14:52
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Isn't that pretty common in television? It's not like all the scripts are written before the shooting starts. They finish a script, the script gets shot, and while they're shooting that script, the writers are writing the next script. It's a continuous development cycle.
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May 31, 2020 15:11
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It’s common with shows that have a lot of studio pressure to be good and make money, with multiple execs and writers duking it out to make the most optimized, demographic pleasing (theoretically) product that can prop up a network. Or, in this case, a streaming service. Usually this has the paradoxical effect of it becoming rushed, slapped together, and overall just not good. Underdog critical darlings that come out of nowhere tend to be much better, since they’re usually passion projects led by one or two creative voices with relatively nothing to lose. e: Picard has the feel of a project that started as a slower character study in its first two or three episodes. But then CBS saw where it was going, and demanded more space and intrigue. I suspect that’s where the shoehorned Borg subplot that had nothing to do with anything came from. There were reports of extensive reshoots at some point. HD DAD fucked around with this message at 16:46 on May 31, 2020 |
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May 31, 2020 16:42
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Do you really think Kurtzman and Goldsman need studio pressure to make something flashy, action-oriented, and melodramatic?
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May 31, 2020 16:52
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I remember for ages people would jerk off online about how one of the big benefits of shorter seasons and streaming distribution was supposed to be that writers would have so much more time to plan things out and put more care into writing these big season- and series-long story arcs. Oops! That wasn't the case at all. Writers are still rushing stupid poo poo out the door at the last minute. This isn't constrained to Trek either; Westworld and Game of Thrones are also great examples. Westworld's got the writers doing dumb last-minute reveals the night before shooting too! Probably the best thing that can be said about the shorter seasons is that when studios are willing to throw cash at them, they can allow for really glitzy production values.
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Jun 1, 2020 02:58
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My wife and I just finished the Season 6 arc of the Dominion taking over the station and the fight to get it back. And it's kind of amazing how it's closer to the prestige TV than recent Trek is trying to be. Like, sure, it would be nice to maybe have another few episodes to flesh out Odo's heel turn and redemption, Worf's arc with Alexander, and the experience on Bajor. But I feel like between that and some of the overarching arcs in Next Gen (the Borg, Klingons), there is a clear way to make Star Trek as modern TV work. Like if you want to have space--Game of Thrones, you can see the seeds for that in older Trek. Picard looked at Game of Thrones and just went with the incest and lovely ending.
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Jun 1, 2020 15:53
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I remember for ages people would jerk off online about how one of the big benefits of shorter seasons and streaming distribution was supposed to be that writers would have so much more time to plan things out and put more care into writing these big season- and series-long story arcs. Battlestar Galactica was incredibly rushed and had a shoestring budget for what they were told to deliver and they were making up the detail of their plot as they went along for large parts of it, but it still manages to be some of the best sci-fi ever made because they had a quality team and a really clear vision of what the story was supposed to be about.
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Jun 1, 2020 16:51
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Alchenar posted:Battlestar Galactica was incredibly rushed and had a shoestring budget for what they were told to deliver and they were making up the detail of their plot as they went along for large parts of it, but it still manages to be some of the best sci-fi ever made because they had a quality team and a really clear vision of what the story was supposed to be about. Actually this. Picard seems like they started with the premise of JLP having a dog, living on his vineyard and current concerns about AIs being dangerous. Also romulans! Romulans bad. The rest they were inventing after shooting first three ep.
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Jun 1, 2020 17:26
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AntherUslessPoster posted:Actually this. It is kind of weird how hard they pushed the dog and the vineyard - I think that's like 99% of what we saw before the show actually aired. What's the biggest plot point you think they pulled out at the last second? IMO Soong was originally supposed to be Lore and they changed it to "no he's OK, but there's a (comedy option: the decision to kill Dahj and pivot to Soji was made the day of shooting)
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Jun 1, 2020 17:35
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Snow Cone Capone posted:It is kind of weird how hard they pushed the dog and the vineyard - I think that's like 99% of what we saw before the show actually aired. You gotta push the most fan-service-y footage beforehand to assure your viewers that they're about to get what they want! Regardless of reality.
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Jun 1, 2020 17:41
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feedmyleg posted:You gotta push the most fan-service-y footage beforehand to assure your viewers that they're about to get what they want! Regardless of reality. Given what we know now about the production of the show it's more likely that they just didn't have any other finished footage at that point.
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Jun 1, 2020 17:48
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It's been so long since I watched it, but I remember Battlestar Galactica faceing the Borg-exposition problem right from the start. I remember the first episode was terrifying -- insane attacks every 33 minutes, no way to defend, just pure madness. But a handful of episodes in you were already like "eh it's the Cylons" and the balloon felt deflated. I don't know if it was ever the intention to make them seem as terrifying subsequently as they were in the first episode, but I distinctly recall the feeling of disappointment at how little I cared about the cylon "threat" a few episodes in.
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Jun 1, 2020 19:11
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Martytoof posted:It's been so long since I watched it, but I remember Battlestar Galactica faceing the Borg-exposition problem right from the start. I remember the first episode was terrifying -- insane attacks every 33 minutes, no way to defend, just pure madness. But a handful of episodes in you were already like "eh it's the Cylons" and the balloon felt deflated. I don't know if it was ever the intention to make them seem as terrifying subsequently as they were in the first episode, but I distinctly recall the feeling of disappointment at how little I cared about the cylon "threat" a few episodes in. Because the show isn't really about the threat, the show is about dealing with the trauma of having been attacked. It's not about the Borg, it's about 9/11 and the occupation of Iraq and how to find meaning in your life when the world goes from 'end of history' 90's to the foreverwar 00's. e: \/\/ I totally get you, ''33" was absolutely starting off by setting a bar nobody could reasonably hope to maintain. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jun 1, 2020 |
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Jun 1, 2020 19:14
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That's what I figured, but the adrenaline from the first episode really put me in a mood for a type of show and the rest didn't deliver. It was still good TV, don't get me wrong, but the remainder of the show felt wanting by comparison. e: It was still good TV until the last season, I mean.
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Jun 1, 2020 19:17
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Battlestar Galactica started going down the tubes early in Season 3. It was very sad, because if they actually had the show plotted out like they suggested every episode in the intro credits, the nuke going off and time skip would have been a genius half-way mark on the show.
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Jun 1, 2020 20:52
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You. Could argue that season 2 was messier than season 1. It was still good, but it all started unravel then. On season 1, I could believe they had a plan.
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Jun 1, 2020 21:01
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adhuin posted:I could believe they had a plan. They had a plan. It is stated in the intro credits
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Jun 1, 2020 23:27
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If you aren't listening to Battlestar Galacticast I really recommend it. They dive a lot into what the show is about and what was and wasn't planned and how things were both made up on the fly but it was okay because, as I say, if you know what the soul of the show is about then it's pretty easy to make things up on the fly. Back to Picard as an example: there's a 'chateau Picard/Redlettermedia' version of the show which is about Picard trying to come to terms with being retired and guilt over Data's death. This is easy enough and retreads old territory for Trek - the entire original series set of movies is about old people trying to come to terms with not being young. There's a 'Picard has to go to the Borg cube and re-confront his old trauma' version of the show. There's 'Picard is caught up in a conspiracy between different factions of Romulans'. Then there's 'are artificial people really people?' I think anyone reading this thread could sketch out a (bad) 8 episode episode arc that stuck to one of those story threads, and I think a professional writer and show-runner should be able to make something actually good.
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Jun 2, 2020 00:56
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At the risk of sounding some some defensive fanboy, I don't know it's fair to attack any of the creatives on the show at being bad at their jobs without knowing exactly what goes down at CBS. People have to put up with all kinds of insane pressures from all different areas to put on a show. Sometimes you just do the best you can with the demands placed on you.
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Jun 2, 2020 03:18
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Yes, it doesn't matter what creatives you have attached to a project, in the end it's totally random whether or not any given production will turn out to be good or bad.
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Jun 2, 2020 03:20
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Drink-Mix Man posted:At the risk of sounding some some defensive fanboy, I don't know it's fair to attack any of the creatives on the show at being bad at their jobs without knowing exactly what goes down at CBS. People have to put up with all kinds of insane pressures from all different areas to put on a show. Sometimes you just do the best you can with the demands placed on you. lol
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Jun 2, 2020 03:34
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AntherUslessPoster posted:They had a plan. The plan to destroy human civilization across 12 planets by the Cavil series to piss off his cylon Mom and Dad.
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Jun 2, 2020 04:07
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feedmyleg posted:Yes, it doesn't matter what creatives you have attached to a project, in the end it's totally random whether or not any given production will turn out to be good or bad. I've worked on projects that were lovely for all kinds of reasons that had nothing to do with the talent level of the people that received the blame. Didn't you guys read that Michael Pillar "Insurrection" thing?
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Jun 2, 2020 04:13
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I've worked on projects that were lovely for all kinds of reasons that had nothing to do with the talent level of the people that received the blame. Same. But I've never worked on any projects which succeeded with incompetent leadership. Goldsman and Kurtzman have laughable track records.
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Jun 2, 2020 04:32
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feedmyleg posted:Same. But I've never worked on any projects which succeeded with incompetent leadership. Goldsman and Kurtzman have laughable track records. Fringe was alright.
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Jun 2, 2020 05:20
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Drink-Mix Man posted:At the risk of sounding some some defensive fanboy, I don't know it's fair to attack any of the creatives on the show at being bad at their jobs without knowing exactly what goes down at CBS. People have to put up with all kinds of insane pressures from all different areas to put on a show. Sometimes you just do the best you can with the demands placed on you. I'm sure Akiva Goldsman did his very best on Batman and Robin, and Jonah Hex, and the Paranormal Activities sequels. drat those CBS executives.
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Jun 2, 2020 06:40
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I've worked on projects that were lovely for all kinds of reasons that had nothing to do with the talent level of the people that received the blame. I've read "Fade-In" more than once and my primary takeaway was that Michael Piller was absolutely the wrong writer for the movie. He was a decent producer for TNG in 1989 but by 1997 I think he was done and needed to move on from Trek. Like, sure, Patrick Stewart's input didn't help things. But maybe he wouldn't have felt so compelled to give input if Piller had had a more compelling treatment to offer in the first place.
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Jun 2, 2020 06:49
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And, sure, at the end of the day we can blame Berman for being so lazy or up his own rear end or whatever that he couldn't be bothered to try and find other writers for the TNG movies (dude called Maurice Hurley to give one of the two(!) pitches for Generations for gently caress sake) but it doesn't mean that Piller didn't do a good job.
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Jun 2, 2020 06:57
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xerxus posted:Fringe was alright. Fringe was great.
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Jun 2, 2020 10:59
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Most, if not all, of Fringe was great. There was some meh mixed in there.
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Jun 2, 2020 11:00
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The last season was a bit meh but overall Fringe was great.
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Jun 2, 2020 11:20
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Eighties ZomCom posted:The last season was a bit meh but overall Fringe was great.  Final season felt like a completely different show, and didn’t really fit.
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Jun 2, 2020 11:26
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The_Doctor posted:
I never bought into the idea that all of a sudden the Observers were now malevolent and willing to just take over everything
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Jun 2, 2020 15:45
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When is discovery getting canceled?
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Jun 13, 2020 06:04
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A4R8 posted:When is discovery getting canceled? It's the only thing people subscribe to CBS all access for (unless you're one of the four people really interested in random reruns of the Andy Griffith show) so likely never. They renewed it for a third season already. It'll likely be in production for S4 by the time they know how people receive the changes they made for S3. Now, if Star Trek: Whatever the Pike show is called comes out and does significantly, orders of magnitude better than STD does it might not get picked up for a fifth season.
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Jun 13, 2020 06:09
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S3 was supposed to be out by now but the post-production got delayed by COVID. Apparently the music work is being done remote so that they can get this out at some point.
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Jun 13, 2020 06:10
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There's a person with a good track record with alleged sources in Secret Hideout (Kurtzmanns production company) that says Discovery has been renewed for Season 4 and 5 (going to be shot back to back.) for 10 episodes each. It makes sense to me considering there's like 18 months between shooting seasons and it seems like a huge waste of to keep sets idle.
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Jun 13, 2020 06:16
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A4R8 posted:When is discovery getting canceled? Not soon, I hope. I'm a lot more interested in Discovery than Picard.
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Jun 13, 2020 09:39
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