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It's also already open the whole time, so Geomancer doesn't even save you from it unlike most other pits.
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Jun 2, 2020 10:26
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 19:39 |
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Registered for #RegRandNo750. Can't wait 
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Jun 2, 2020 12:20
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Based on what happened during my first fiesta year. $10 per run, up to $30, for anyone who makes it between the fire and earth crystal with a party of 4 bards. What I would like to see are pictures of Adamantoise and Archeoaevis dying.
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Jun 2, 2020 14:20
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Hellioning posted:There's a bit in the Ronka Ruins where there's a trap floor that, if you step on it, you fall down. People who play the game a lot know it's there, but might not dodge it in time if they're going fast. It's not even a trap floor it's just a hole in the floor. It's insanely visible and yet so easy to fall into.
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Jun 2, 2020 14:44
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I donated 100bux. Maybe I'll finish my first run since 2013 this year
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Jun 2, 2020 16:34
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have they said what the new run this year is, or is there one?
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Jun 2, 2020 16:38
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I've fallen in the trap, laughed about it on the Discord, then immediately fallen in the same trap.
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Jun 2, 2020 16:41
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Admiral Joeslop posted:I've fallen in the trap, laughed about it on the Discord, then immediately fallen in the same trap. 
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Jun 2, 2020 16:50
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I have arrived. (Via the forum ads.) It's the most berserker time of the year again 
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Jun 2, 2020 17:20
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In all my years of Fiesta-ing I have never hit the speed trap  (because it is always on my mind thanks to this thread)
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Jun 2, 2020 17:43
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I don't recall much of FF5 at all so I will for sure fall in the trap.
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Jun 2, 2020 17:59
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All right, what's everyone's ideal breakdown for an all-classes set of runs? Here's mine: 1: Blue Mage, Beastmaster, Thief, Dragoon 2: Knight, Berserker, Bard, Mystic Knight 3: White Mage, Geomancer, Ninja, Ranger 4: Black Mage, Red Mage, Time Mage, Samurai 5: Monk, Summoner, Chemist, Dancer
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Jun 2, 2020 19:29
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Assuming I can use Chaos-esque rules: 1) Monk, Summoner, Geomancer, Berserker. Gets three of the shittiest jobs in the game out of the way early, !Summon is a fine addition to the other two controllable characters, and it makes the Rune Axe hit like hate incarnate. Easy double crown, I might entertain Omega if I hate myself. 2) Thief, Time, Knight, Dragoon. Time carry, Thief enables getting spears on a reasonable basis. Would still use the Chicken Knife because gently caress the Brave Blade. Can Triple via quickleak. 3) Beastmaster, White Mage, Blue Mage, Samurai. Utility + loadsamoney = free Triple via Beastmaster. 4) Bard, Mystic Knight, Ranger, Dancer. Do you know how much damage a Flare Spellblade Sword Dance does at level 99/99 strength/99 agility? The answer is enough to overflow several times. Free Triple via Bard. 5) Black Mage, Red Mage, Ninja, Chemist. gently caress this game in particular. It has Chemist, therefore it wins at everything.
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Jun 2, 2020 19:40
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Here's what I did a couple years back:
e: Don't forget that I'm making donations for everyone who actually pulls this off. See the toxx post on the first page for the specifics. ultrafilter fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Jun 2, 2020 |
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Jun 2, 2020 19:43
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Oh hell yes it's that time of year again. Haven't registered yet since I have no idea what to do this year, but after last year I'm reasonably sure that I probably won't throw myself into sealed temple again and settle for more normal shenanigans if possible. The laws of the universe mean nothing! 
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Jun 2, 2020 21:02
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Is there any setup for this that can Triple Crown all five runs? Kyrosis's list looks good but I'm not sure I'd trust Summoner to take Omega, either.
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Jun 2, 2020 21:04
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StrangeAeon posted:Is there any setup for this that can Triple Crown all five runs? Summoner is doable against Omega but really really really sucks to be your best offense against it. My run last year of White/Zerk/Blue/Summoner had more trouble killing regular Omega than it did Omega Mk2 for that reason. Your best option for damage is boosted Ramuh; Odin can roll higher but is unreliable in that regard and costs far more MP, and Bahamut is outdamaged by Ramuh flatout. Everything else is absorbed and thus worthless (although obviously you still use Phoenix). Since Monk can't use any weapons and get element boosts at all, it's stuck with Odin for offense purposes anyways. A big tip is to use Carbuncle frequently to keep reflect up on the entire party, and wait to go on the offense until Omega uses targetting. If targeting is reflected onto Omega, all the counterattacks get pointed at it until it finishes the next normal action, meaning you're completely safe from Rocket Punch + Encircle. If you're lucky, it'll Mustard Bomb itself for ~1500 as well, which is a nice extra chunk of damage. A much bigger problem is surviving long enough to actually secure the kill. Reflect shuts down almost everything Omega has except for Flamethrower, Earthquake, Wave Cannon, Maelstrom, and the counterattacks. Earthquake can be solved by going in with float on the entire party, the counterattacks can be handled by waiting for the Targeting reflect, and Flamethrower is so weak it isn't a practical threat in practice. Good luck dealing with Wave Cannon and Maelstrom though, and it'll take a ton of level grinding and having close to 99 Elixirs to have a realistic shot at success. At least Summoner has the easiest time with level grinding; Zanetsuken spam on Iron Giants is the best exp grind in the game outside of the Sealed Temple. I'd probably swap Monk with Red Mage here; Monk does absolutely nothing for triple crowning purposes you can't get elsewhere while Red Mage at least means you have another rod user for boosted Ramuh spam and the Summoner can get Dualcast.
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Jun 2, 2020 21:34
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StrangeAeon posted:Is there any setup for this that can Triple Crown all five runs? Easily. Bard, chemist, beastmaster, and time mage are all free omega clears, and then you just put mystic knight and ranger on the last team and damage race him. As for Shinryu, you just need a rod/staff user on each team and a big enough pile of phoenix downs.
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Jun 2, 2020 21:45
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Out of boredom, I decided to actually do damage comparisons for Omega killing purposes with jobs that really really really should not be trying that task. Monk actually is even worse against Omega than Berserker for *damage* purposes unless you give it an ability that actually is useful from another job. Level 99 54 STR Bartz!Monk has 22 M and an attack power of 202. You get two attacks per swing, each of which has a 5% chance to hit. Omega has 190 physical defense, which reduces your effective attack power to 12; 136 total damage after you factor in Protect. Critical hits are possible and will hit like a nuke (4444 damage!), but are incredibly unlikely; 8% chance on a 5% hit translates to .4% per punch. Level 99 48 STR Faris!Berserker has 39 M; the absolute best axe for raw attack power is the Giant's Axe (91 ATK, common steal from Twintania while charging), which is only 90% accurate so each swing it makes is a 4.5% chance to hit. However, being Berserk gives you a 1.5x multiplier to attack power before defense is factored in, so you actually have 136 ATK, and axes ignore 75% of enemy DEF, so Omega's 190 DEF drops to 47 DEF. The final result then is 1602 raw damage after you factor in Protect reducing the multiplier to 18 M. (This is before weapon variance kicks in) Over an average of 100 attacks (so 200 total hit chances for the Monk given they attack twice), you expect a total of 10 punches to connect and either 1 or 0 of those to crit, and 4 or 5 axe swings to connect. I'll be nice to Monk and assume 1 punch crit and 4 axe hits. 9 regular punches is 1224 damage total, 1 crit punch is 4444 damage, grand total is 5668 damage. 4 Giant's Axe hits is 6408 raw damage. (This is before weapon variance kicks in, which with axes means some very significant swings in either direction) Now in practice Monk has the massive advantage of being under player control and thus being able to use actually good ways to kill Omega if you have them available, but if you're way too desperate for a triple crown and presumably the rest of the team is spamming Elixirs then Berserker will on average do more damage before you run out of Elixirs and die horribly to Wave Cannon. God, Monk is such a sad job.
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Jun 2, 2020 22:28
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Now do Geomancer
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Jun 2, 2020 23:48
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Cattail Prophet posted:Easily. Bard, chemist, beastmaster, and time mage are all free omega clears, and then you just put mystic knight and ranger on the last team and damage race him. As for Shinryu, you just need a rod/staff user on each team and a big enough pile of phoenix downs. (or, if you're doing GBA, you can use Cannoneer for your fifth kill, which doesn't completely trivialize Omega but gives you the only workable way to land Slow, half defense, and a no-counters damage option all in one class) edit: also if you're on Matrix, don't try the Reflect-Targeting thing, they fixed it, someone ran into that last year
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Jun 3, 2020 01:08
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Cattail Prophet posted:Now do Geomancer Geomancer sits in a corner and cries, because your best option is literally to try and punch with your bare hands until you get a crit for about as much damage as a monk would do without a crit. ...Unless you have a ranger on the team and are willing to retry killing Twintania legit multiple times until you get the Tinkerbell. If you do so, you can unlock This comes out to 3850 raw damage before damage variance. Per hit. For comparison, a full power Chicken Knife being rapidfired by a level 99 ranger Faris (43 STR, 44 AGI thanks to the knife) comes out at 4318 damage a hit. Congrats on having ~90% of the damage output of a full power chicken knife! For comparison, a level 99 Bartz monk with rapidfire is doing 2222 a hit before crits or variance with 8 hits total (just outdoing the knife even without crits!), and a level 99 Bartz knight with rapidfire and a full power brave blade is a sign that you are doing something terribly wrong with your life and also only 3300 damage a hit with rapidfire. In conclusion, never take the brave blade. EDIT: whoops I made a terrible mistake Omega does not have protect, but his permanent shell does still half bell multiplier. So knife is doing 8636 a hit, monk is doing 4444 a hit, and even the brave blade idiot is doing 6600 a hit. So I guess rapidfire geomancer is literally only worth it for Shinryu and tree Exdeath then. EDIT 2: I have made a second terrible mistake; look further down for details the Orb of Zot fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Jun 3, 2020 |
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Jun 3, 2020 05:20
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...I was actually talking about Rune Chime shenanigans, but your answer is way more fun anyway.
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Jun 3, 2020 05:30
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Oh man I had a great time last year. Highlights for me were 1. Waiting out the rug wizard so he'd deplete his MP, then I kicked his rear end with a geomancer. 2. Beating NED after my party had been reduced to a single dragoon berserked by Grand Cross. 3. Putting out a donation challenge for a surgical NED kill and seeing it done!
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Jun 3, 2020 05:58
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Cattail Prophet posted:...I was actually talking about Rune Chime shenanigans, but your answer is way more fun anyway. Rune chime would work surprisingly well, actually. It runs off of the rune axe formula so it quarters defense, which means it’ll just barely be able to punch through Omega’s defense as long as MP holds out. At level 99, a Faris!Geomancer with 31 STR and 56 MAG (thanks to circlet + black robe) would hit for 272 raw damage per attack before weapon variance kicks in. In practice, it’ll usually either tink for 0 damage or hit for noticeably more thanks to how swingy the axe damage formula is (a perfect damage roll would actually do over 1000 damage!) There is a catch to this otherwise pretty pathetic damage output however in the form of a ridiculously weird corner case. While the rune chime uses the rune damage formula instead of the bell damage formula, the rune chime, like the other bell weapons, is considered to be under the “Song” attack category. Omega is coded to be unable to dodge anything in the “Song” attack category, which is why Romeo’s Ballad is a reliable way to stoplock him rather than a complete waste of a turn thanks to shell + 90% MEVA + being level 127. Thanks to this ridiculously niche situation, the rune chime will get to circumvent Omega’s 95% EVA and always hit. On average after the axe formula has been applied, you’ll do 10xM damage, so 380 on average. Over 100 attacks that is on average 38000 damage. Omega has 55530 HP so the average is 146 attacks to secure a kill. Geomancer, Destroyer of Omega????? EDIT: I have been informed that Omega actually does not have protect. So 760 damage per swing on average, 73 swings on average to kill Omega. EDIT 2: unfortunate news regarding Tinkerbell rapidfire 1. On the GBA version bell damage formula is ATK + (0...ATK/2). On the SNES version it’s ATK/2 + (0...ATK/2). This is a super huge difference; 125% on average for your weapon damage vs 75% on average with the absolute max being 100%. If you’re going to do it, do it on the GBA 2. It turns out the reason Tinkerbell rapidfire is so good on paper is because it ignores the entire part of rapidfire where it messes with the damage forumulas and thus is literally 4x !fight at once. However, that also means you don’t get the auto-hit or ignore defense parts of rapidfire. Tinkerbell still has to deal with enemy magic defense. Rapidfiring the Tinkerbell against Omega does 0 damage. If on the SNES version, rapidfiring the Tinkerbell against Shinryu does 0 damage, and even on GBA is on average equivalent to about 9*M damage per hit. On SNES, Necrophobe will take at most a very small amount of damage (4*M on a perfect damage roll for a given hit) because he has 50 MDEF, and even on GBA you probably get more mileage out of rapidfiring the thief’s knife you have wielded to try and steal genji armor from Gilgamesh. Treedeath is 25 MDEF and is the only boss for which rapidfire Tinkerbell is even remotely worth consideringand even on the GBA you’re better off with the Assassin’s Dagger for rapidfire purposes anyways. NED varies (19-25 MDEF depending on piece), but at that point you’re much better off spamming Air knife boosted Air Slash to reliably spread out the damage. Against an enemy with zero MDEF Tinkerbell rapidfire does blow away even Chicken Knife Rapidfire, but in reality it’s as effective as you would expect ringing a bell to be as a weapon. Bells are a loving roller coaster of disappointment and amazement, often at the same time. Rune chime is good and a surprisingly usable way to kill Omega, tinker bell is bad and is never worth getting ever unless you want to see rapidfire do 0 damage. EDIT: oh right you also have to worry about physical evasion too, which makes the numbers even worse. Ironically the same quirk I mentioned with the rune chime being classified as a “song” attack does mean you still are guaranteed to hit Omega (even if it’s for 0 damage each), and mercifully final Gilgamesh, Necrophobe, TED, and NED all have only 10% physical evasion so it isn’t that much of an impact. Shinryu has 20% which still isn’t terrible but it does mean you only have a 40.96% chance to hit with all 4 rapidfire swings on a given use, and those misses probably start pushing things into “just rapidfire a regular ordinary dagger you’ll probably do more damage with it anyways” territory. the Orb of Zot fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Jun 3, 2020 |
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Jun 3, 2020 06:47
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Now do drugs.
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Jun 3, 2020 13:19
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How does an Advance run work, since those jobs aren't associated with any crystal? Is it just a chaos run with the GBA-only classes added to the pool?
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Jun 3, 2020 16:19
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The jobs get shifted so the base game is all in the first three crystals, then advance jobs are in Earth. Other than that I think it's just a Normal run?
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Jun 3, 2020 16:25
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So I went digging in the algorithm guide because I wasn't familiar with the bell/rapid fire interaction, and not only does the bell damage formula ignore the step where rapid fire modifiers would be applied (which, to be fair, appears to be a trait shared by all weapons that deal magic damage), it also... skips accuracy checks altogether, for some reason? So you technically still get autohits with rapid fire, but only because you always get autohits. Bells also get shut down entirely by mute (the time spell, not the status effect... I think), which doesn't seem to be the case for any other weapon based magic. Bells* are weird. *Keep in mind that there are a grand total of four bells in the game, and only two of them actually use the bell damage formula.
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Jun 3, 2020 17:36
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After all that MATH my primary concern is why the hell we don't have fanart of a furious Geomancer rapid-ringing a bell at something's face.
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Jun 3, 2020 19:01
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This is the sort of thing I love about FFV. There's just so many weird interactions going on in the game that it feels like there's always some new thing you've never heard of. And these are the sort of things that makes 4 Job Fiesta such a good time. I'm probably gonna prereg with Chaos and Berserker Risk. Would probably do Pure Chaos, but I really don't wanna run around with just Freelancer for an extended period of time.
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Jun 3, 2020 21:19
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I should play the GBA version, right? I wish the Steam version looked better or at least didn't have that font because getting to play it fullscreen on my PC or TV without it being super stretched-out would be great but... oh boy that font.
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Jun 3, 2020 23:31
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Harrow posted:I should play the GBA version, right? absolutely
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Jun 3, 2020 23:41
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Arzaac posted:I'm probably gonna prereg with Chaos and Berserker Risk. Would probably do Pure Chaos, but I really don't wanna run around with just Freelancer for an extended period of time. Just FYI with Chaos, if you’re not using the Fiesta mod then there’s a decent chance you’ll be Freelancer only for a large portion of World 1. You might want to consider Random instead. If you are using the mod then Chaos is great.
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Jun 3, 2020 23:52
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Bregor posted:Just FYI with Chaos, if you’re not using the Fiesta mod then there’s a decent chance you’ll be Freelancer only for a large portion of World 1. You might want to consider Random instead. If you are using the mod then Chaos is great. That's not always true, if you're chaos riskin, then you're sometimes quadzerking for most of World 1.
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Jun 3, 2020 23:59
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On the other hand, Freelancer is very complex class just from its sheer equipment depth. More of a world 2/3 thing though.
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Jun 4, 2020 00:10
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Kyrosiris posted:On the other hand, Freelancer is very complex class just from its sheer equipment depth.
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Jun 4, 2020 00:11
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Rand and chaos both allow dupes right? Why am I already thinking about my second run?
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Jun 4, 2020 00:20
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DACK FAYDEN posted:This post counts as someone poo poo talking Diamond Bell and Kotetsu within earshot of me and I will not hear it Bold words from someone who can't even remember which katana they're talking about.
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Jun 4, 2020 00:23
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 19:39 |
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Sunday: "I did two runs last year and felt pretty good about them both. Lets do Berserker Risk." Every day since: "Please 
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Jun 4, 2020 00:32
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