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MrYenko posted:A single barreled smoothbore musket is good for (very roughly) 30MOA. A good shooter who knew his weapon intimately and had the time to cast his own musket balls and really precisely develop his loads might potentially halve that (maybe 15MOA if everything is perfect,) but that would be pushing the boundaries of what is possible without some form of spin-stabilized projectile. Regulating 7 barrels to the same point of aim is a nightmare that I wouldn't even know where to start on, so I'm assuming that smoothbore volley guns like that are decidedly for ranges under 25 yards. It's a boarding or assault weapon.  I don't think any attempt was made to get a single point of aim for those barrels. They're all exactly parallel.
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Jun 2, 2020 15:40
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This might give you a sense of the spread. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaXCSAlkuqI&t=238s
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Jun 2, 2020 15:41
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What advantage does that have over a shotgun? or were shotguns not a thing yet at that time
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Jun 2, 2020 15:42
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bewbies posted:What advantage does that have over a shotgun? or were shotguns not a thing yet at that time It was originally envisaged to be fired from the fighting tops of warships down onto the decks of other warships, larger musket balls would keep far more KE and be more likely of actually killing a sailor at that distance than the shotguns at the time.
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Jun 2, 2020 15:44
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bewbies posted:What advantage does that have over a shotgun? or were shotguns not a thing yet at that time Larger individual balls moving at higher individual velocities. Shotguns are loving old and date back to basically the moment gun powder started being a thing.
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Jun 2, 2020 15:45
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i imagine that aside from all of the mechanical accuracy issues inherent to seven smoothbore barrels that the thing is extremely difficult to shoot
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Jun 2, 2020 15:47
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Cyrano4747 posted:Larger individual balls moving at higher individual velocities. Shotguns are loving old and date back to basically the moment gun powder started being a thing. Does that make it more lethal? my impression has always been that there isn't anything much more destructive inside 30m than a shotgun, how does that thing compare?
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Jun 2, 2020 15:47
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Yeah the Nock Gun was designed for clearing decks and narrow wooden passage ways of ships.KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:i imagine that aside from all of the mechanical accuracy issues inherent to seven smoothbore barrels that the thing is extremely difficult to shoot The recoil however is pretty rough for anyone not crazy well built. It was an awkward weapon.
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Jun 2, 2020 15:48
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:i imagine that aside from all of the mechanical accuracy issues inherent to seven smoothbore barrels that the thing is extremely difficult to shoot Not only extremely difficult to shoot (because it's literally the recoil of 7 muskets at once), extremely dangerous because you have no way of knowing in practice which barrels went off, so it's very easy to double-load and blow the gun up on a second or third shot. bewbies posted:Does that make it more lethal? my impression has always been that there isn't anything much more destructive inside 30m than a shotgun, how does that thing compare? The thing about a shotgun is that the individual pellets are really small, about on par with the damage a .32 ACP pistol round will do, and the spread on an unchoked shotgun is generally 1 inch per yard. The efficacy of a typical 00 buckshot blast can then be considered on the metric of "How effective would these pellets in these places be if I shot them with a pocket pistol instead?" With the Nock, on the other hand, each shot has the same power as a .46 caliber flintlock carbine. Those bullets will hit much harder than buckshot and maintain their energy over a longer distance.
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Jun 2, 2020 15:53
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bewbies posted:Does that make it more lethal? my impression has always been that there isn't anything much more destructive inside 30m than a shotgun, how does that thing compare? Absolutely. Roughly speaking lethality is a factor of penetration into tissue which is itself a product of bullet size/weight and velocity. A .32 shotgun pellet moving at BP shotgun speeds is going to be much less lethal than a .70 round ball moving at BP musket speeds. Shotgun lethality tends to be a factor of getting hit with a bunch of pellets at once, which in turn creates more wound area, increasing the chance of hitting a major blood vessel or nerve or otherwise ruining someone’s day. Note that there is a lower limit to this, though. All the projectiles in the world don’t help if they don’t penetrate deeply enough to get at vitals. This is why bird shot is a piss poor home defense loading. The way shotguns are portrayed in most movies and games is basically bull poo poo. They’re very dangerous but they’re neither going to blow a person apart at close range of clear an entire room with one blast.
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Jun 2, 2020 15:54
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A 12 ga shotgun shooting slugs actually generates almost identical muzzle energy to a .70 cal black powder musket, so you figure that 7x 0.46 carbine balls is probably something like 3x the energy generated.
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Jun 2, 2020 16:06
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Cyrano4747 posted:Note that there is a lower limit to this, though. All the projectiles in the world don’t help if they don’t penetrate deeply enough to get at vitals. This is why bird shot is a piss poor home defense loading. And is also why people tested the belief that "Birdshot at point blank range will act like a slug!" and found it to be total bullshit. It does the exact same thing as if you shot them from 20 feet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T26cV_M_oAE
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Jun 2, 2020 16:06
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so the nock gun has three times the energy of a 12 gauge? Good lord did they ever experiment with something like buckshot in a weapon on that scale? I feel like that would be comically powerful, like to the point of a small artillery piece
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Jun 2, 2020 16:09
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bewbies posted:so the nock gun has three times the energy of a 12 gauge? Good lord I don't know of any with simultaneous firing of every barrel, but people did this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QTeyPe0UGY Of course you can also load the Nock with shot if you want. The only difference between a smoothbore musket and a shotgun is what you load it with.
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Jun 2, 2020 16:11
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bewbies posted:so the nock gun has three times the energy of a 12 gauge? Good lord Patrick Harper is a Celtic killing machine in those books casually bringing that thing out and just mowing dudes down in critical moments.
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Jun 2, 2020 16:24
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SlothfulCobra posted:English had to reconcile german and latin while nestled between Wales and France who both do their own weird thing with the latin alphabet that don't seem to have anything to do with anybody else's interpretation of how those letters work. They could've made some grand program to coordinate spelling, but confusing messes that don't follow any clear rules but just vague understandings is kinda what the entirety of English history is built on. There have been some attempts at spelling reform of English that have been smaller changes rather than larger ones. James Howell's Grammer managed to get a bunch of words like logic, and war to be spelled in their modern form. For American spellings, Daniel Webster is the reason we don't use ou as much as the English did.
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Jun 2, 2020 16:26
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SeanBeansShako posted:Patrick Harper is a Celtic killing machine in those books casually bringing that thing out and just mowing dudes down in critical moments. hes also canonically built like rob gronkowski
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Jun 2, 2020 16:45
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Thomamelas posted:There have been some attempts at spelling reform of English that have been smaller changes rather than larger ones. James Howell's Grammer managed to get a bunch of words like logic, and war to be spelled in their modern form. For American spellings, Daniel Webster is the reason we don't use ou as much as the English did. When you’re taking standardization or spelling the two big moments are printed bibles and the rise of dictionaries and encyclopedias.
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Jun 2, 2020 17:02
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:i imagine that aside from all of the mechanical accuracy issues inherent to seven smoothbore barrels that the thing is extremely difficult to shoot Not if you’re Sgt Harper.
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Jun 2, 2020 18:01
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Any thoughts on the historical realism here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZR3DGFwehw
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Jun 2, 2020 18:18
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drgitlin posted:Not if you’re Sgt Harper. Head canon, dude has a NCO caddy who's job is just to reload that loving thing in the background of all the fighting.
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Jun 2, 2020 18:18
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Fangz posted:Any thoughts on the historical realism here? Not sure why they have torches on the wall behind the throne.
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Jun 2, 2020 18:35
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LRADIKAL posted:Not sure why they have torches on the wall behind the throne. Because in ye olde times everyone stayed up late like we do, they all just had 10,000 torches and candles in their dwellings.
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Jun 2, 2020 18:36
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Fangz posted:Any thoughts on the historical realism here? They're not big enough assholes
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Jun 2, 2020 18:38
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SeanBeansShako posted:Head canon, dude has a NCO caddy who's job is just to reload that loving thing in the background of all the fighting. Dudes an NCO himself tho?
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Jun 2, 2020 18:39
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SerCypher posted:Because in ye olde times everyone stayed up late like we do, they all just had 10,000 torches and candles in their dwellings. Is this another William Manchester thing?
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Jun 2, 2020 19:16
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feedmegin posted:Dudes an NCO himself tho? Medium poo poo NCO and then big poo poo NCO as the books progress. Plus he was a NCO at the start and they had underling Riflemen with them always.
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Jun 2, 2020 19:23
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Fangz posted:Any thoughts on the historical realism here? No actual gods on the battlefield, no ability to recruit Minotaurs despite them being implemented in Total Warhammer. Bad. e: more seriously, while it's necessary for a good game, you should be super wary of drawing anything from Total War's manner of unit differentiation. In the grand scheme of things a guy with a spear and a shield is a guy with a spear and a shield. It matters if he's had literally no training, practices with the militia every other weekend, or is a full time solider, but the rest is really a matter of generalship and the circumstances of the battle in question. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jun 2, 2020 |
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Jun 2, 2020 19:25
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SerCypher posted:Because in ye olde times everyone stayed up late like we do, they all just had 10,000 torches and candles in their dwellings. Define olden times? People in early modern england definitely stayed sometimes stayed up till the early hours. Here's something from Boswell's life of Johnson: One night when Beauclerk and Langton had supped at a tavern in London, and sat till about three in the morning, it came into their heads to go and knock up Johnson, and see if they could prevail on him to join them in a ramble. They rapped violently at the door of his chambers in the Temple, till at last he appeared in his shirt, with his little black wig on the top of his head, instead of a nightcap, and a poker in his hand, imagining, probably, that some ruffians were coming to attack him. When he discovered who they were, and was told their errand, he smiled, and with great good humour agreed to their proposal: 'What, is it you, you dogs! I'll have a frisk with you.' He was soon drest, and they sallied forth together into Covent-Garden, where the greengrocers and fruiterers were beginning to arrange their hampers, just come in from the country. Johnson made some attempts to help them; but the honest gardeners stared so at his figure and manner, and odd interference, that he soon saw his services were not relished. They then repaired to one of the neighbouring taverns, and made a bowl of that liquor called Bishop, which Johnson had always liked.... And concerning work rather than pleasure here's Pepys: Thence home, and thither comes Mr. Houblon and a brother, with whom I evened for the charter parties of their ships for Tangier, and paid them the third advance on their freight to full satisfaction, and so, they being gone, comes Creed and with him till past one in the morning, evening his accounts till my head aked and I was fit for nothing, There's a myth that people didn't stay up late before gaslight was invented, but it doesn't hold up to much scrutiny. The average night is twelve hours, and most people just can't sleep that long regularly. Nighttime illumination is one of the earliest and most universal human technologies. Edit: yes I have heard of Roger Ekrich and biphasic sleep. As far as I know there's still no evidence that pre-modern people regularly fell asleep the moment the sun set. Mr Enderby fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jun 2, 2020 |
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Jun 2, 2020 19:57
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Fangz posted:Any thoughts on the historical realism here? The big problem I have with Total War games is how command and control is handled. You click a button and a unit a half a mile away instantly moves where you want it to. Similarly, at the strategic level you have instant and accurate information about where your units are and what they're doing, and they also instantly respond to your commands. Sure, it's a game, have fun with it. But don't take it as history. Edit: I'm fairly sure we have zero historical evidence that "Bronze Age" (I dislike that term) armies used formations like that, let alone marched in step. Cessna fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jun 2, 2020 |
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Jun 2, 2020 20:06
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Is biphasic sleep the whole "pre urban street lighting people would sleep longer but get up in the middle of the night for an hour" thing? Also one thing that was apparently hellish about the blockade of Germany in WWI was trying to stay sane during winter with no fuel for lighting at all. Lots of stories of stressed German mums trying to keep kids entertained when its dark like 16 hours a day.
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Jun 2, 2020 20:12
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Cyrano4747 posted:When you’re taking standardization or spelling the two big moments are printed bibles and the rise of dictionaries and encyclopedias. Right, and I meant Noah, not Daniel Webster. And when Noah published it, he was attacked by both Federalists and Jeffersonian Republicans. The Federalists hated it because it included some slang, the Jeffersonian Republicans disliked him from his writings for the Federalists. And because if you're the kind of person who wants to collect 70,000 words and document their meaning, you may have some personality quirks. But it was his speller that was the big thing. The first really American textbook and from a teaching perspective, it's not awful. It breaks things down by grade and builds upon itself.
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Jun 2, 2020 20:13
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MikeCrotch posted:Is biphasic sleep the whole "pre urban street lighting people would sleep longer but get up in the middle of the night for an hour" thing? Yeah, that's the one. Probably true up to a point, but it gets spun into this whole "secret history of sleep thing" that I am instinctively suspicious of.
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Jun 2, 2020 20:17
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Cessna posted:Edit: I'm fairly sure we have zero historical evidence that "Bronze Age" (I dislike that term) armies used formations like that, let alone marched in step. Well, we know that the Mycenaeans used spears and large shields, it seems obvious given that, that it would make sense to form some manner of a shield wall?
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Jun 2, 2020 20:22
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MikeCrotch posted:Is biphasic sleep the whole "pre urban street lighting people would sleep longer but get up in the middle of the night for an hour" thing? Did the Germans not have access to You tube? What monsters!
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Jun 2, 2020 20:37
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The two people I know who are really into that biphasic sleep thing are also rear end in a top hat software engineers who still work at Google and think Andy Rubin didn't do anything wrong, based on that data I'm going to assume biphasic sleep is complete bullshit.
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Jun 2, 2020 20:37
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Fangz posted:Well, we know that the Mycenaeans used spears and large shields, it seems obvious given that, that it would make sense to form some manner of a shield wall? Shield wall? Sure! Parade ground drill formations like this with company sized units in neat, dressed ranks?  Yeah, no.
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Jun 2, 2020 20:53
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also the gear is so uniform and regular ugh
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Jun 2, 2020 21:08
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Cessna posted:The big problem I have with Total War games is how command and control is handled. You click a button and a unit a half a mile away instantly moves where you want it to. Similarly, at the strategic level you have instant and accurate information about where your units are and what they're doing, and they also instantly respond to your commands. Wasn’t an element of the original Prussian war game (kriegspiele?) that there was a referee/game master who sort of ‘interpreted’ the players’ orders and wasn’t necessarily a reliable narrator? All to simulate exactly what you say-command and control in any army at any time is not perfect, but was especially bad and influential before the widespread adoption of radio and telegraph.
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Jun 2, 2020 21:33
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Here's some good stuff: https://twitter.com/DrBenWheatley/status/1267477707866148864 Fascinating how there's still so much more to come out of studying this war when it the most documented thing ever.
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Jun 2, 2020 21:37
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