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it's spelled Aerith, you fool
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Jun 9, 2020 16:55
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Lt. Danger posted:it's spelled Aerith, you fool see, this is at least semi-funny even if I've heard it before, the others here are just pathetic and transparent attempts to antagonize me after I got mildly annoyed at it once
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Jun 9, 2020 16:58
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Sodomy Hussein posted:The MCU choosing to elevate that and doing it well is big, and pointing out that successful black superhero movies existed before Black Panther is not a tremendous own Citing examples of other black superhero movies prior to Black Panther's release just bolsters the argument that the movie isn't deserving of more praise simply because it made assloads of money as a result of it being part of a super successful film franchise. No one is trying to "own" the film by saying as such. It's great that it exists, but just because it's a Marvel produced product with afrofuturist trappings doesn't mean it's any more relevant/important than other movies representing POC, imo.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:01
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teagone posted:Citing examples of other black superhero movies prior to Black Panther's release just bolsters the argument that the movie isn't deserving of more praise simply because it made assloads of money as a result of it being part of a super successful film franchise. No one is trying to "own" the film by saying as such. It's great that it exists, but just because it's a Marvel produced product with afrofuturist trappings doesn't mean it's any more relevant/important than other movies representing POC, imo. I'm really not trying to attack you, I just want to understand, but: do you not realize how you are coming off? It really seems like you're trying to minimize the impact of BP. I'd argue that the ninth-highest grossing film ever made being a love letter not just to the black community, but to Africa, utilizing a geographic setting rarely seen in movies and incorporating as much pan-African culture as possible is incredible. Most "important" black movies are stuffy period dramas about like, slavery or civil rights. Do you not understand why, for people who've been subjugated for 400 years, whose cultural histories were stolen and erased, who even still today cannot find pride in their homeland because it is consistently depicted as either primitive tribes or dysfunctional, broken cities, Wakanda would be powerful?
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Jun 9, 2020 17:09
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Furthermore, do you not understand why it's important and distinctive that this depiction comes from the same "low" culture that is widely disdained?
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Jun 9, 2020 17:11
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Arist posted:Most "important" black movies are stuffy period dramas about like, slavery or civil rights. Do you not understand why, for people who've been subjugated for 400 years, whose cultural histories were stolen and erased, who even still today cannot find pride in their homeland because it is consistently depicted as either primitive tribes or dysfunctional, broken cities, Wakanda would be powerful? Arist posted:Furthermore, do you not understand why it's important and distinctive that this depiction comes from the same "low" culture that is widely disdained? Dogg you've declared the entire Nigerian film industry "unimportant". How are you not even aware of Nollywood? Like, the fact that African people in Africa are making cool movies right now?
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Jun 9, 2020 17:16
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The whole irl history of the CIA in Africa kinda taints whatever positive cultural significance the movie could have; sorta it covers it up unless the viewer was already aware!
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Jun 9, 2020 17:19
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Arist posted:It really seems like you're trying to minimize the impact of BP. I'm not. I don't know what it is about my posts that seems to get people to think I'm always "minimizing" or dismissing things. I was hounded for similar reasons when I said the Russo bros were being pompous/pretentious when they issued a signed, written statement to fans to not spoil Endgame and posted it on social media. I wasn't "minimizing" the importance of Endgame's story to its fans then, same way I'm not "minimizing" the cultural relevancy/importance of BP now. Hugely different scenarios, obviously, but the downplaying of what I'm trying articulate as some sort of "dismissive attack" on something I'm not even targeting is the same. I'm saying other films with black superheroes are just as important too, and don't really agree with any reasons as to why Black Panther should get special treatment—part of which my own thoughts of film and the company that produces it influences that opinion. Arist posted:Furthermore, do you not understand why it's important and distinctive that this depiction comes from the same "low" culture that is widely disdained? Enlighten me, please. [edit] Blood Boils posted:The whole irl history of the CIA in Africa kinda taints whatever positive cultural significance the movie could have; sorta it covers it up unless the viewer was already aware! Depicting Wakanda as an ethnostate that deceives other governments around the world by putting up a front that it's a third world country also seems kind of questionable too. Especially since they're a nation that harbors limitless technology that would undoubtedly change the world for the better. It's the same criticism I have for Stark and Pym in-universe; they selfishly hold on to their technologies and the world suffers for it. teagone fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 17:20
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Dogg you've declared the entire Nigerian film industry "unimportant". I actually watch Wakaliwood, dude, this is loving baseless
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Jun 9, 2020 17:30
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teagone posted:I'm not. I don't know what it is about my posts that seems to get people to think I'm always "minimizing" or dismissing things. I was hounded for similar reasons when I said the Russo bros were being pompous/pretentious when they issued a signed, written statement to fans to not spoil Endgame and posted it on social media. I wasn't "minimizing" the importance of Endgame's story to its fans then, same way I'm not "minimizing" the cultural relevancy/importance of BP now. Hugely different scenarios, obviously, but the downplaying of what I'm trying articulate as some sort of "dismissive attack" on something I'm not even targeting is the same. I'm saying other films with black superheroes are just as important too, and don't really agree with any reasons as to why Black Panther should get special treatment—part of which my own thoughts of film and the company that produces it influences that opinion. I just gave you like four reasons, maybe you should read them. Like, it's legitimately great that Miles Morales code-switches, and I acknowledge that Spider-Man is a bigger character than Black Panther. I still think BP is more of a landmark.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:32
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Arist posted:I just gave you like four reasons, maybe you should read them. I did. quote:Like, it's legitimately great that Miles Morales code-switches, and I acknowledge that Spider-Man is a bigger character than Black Panther. I still think BP is more of a landmark. This is where we just disagree then.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:33
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teagone posted:Depicting Wakanda as an ethnostate that deceives other governments around the world by putting up a front that it's a third world country also seems kind of questionable too. Especially since they're a nation that harbors limitless technology that would undoubtedly change the world for the better. It's the same criticism I have for Stark and Pym in-universe; they selfishly hold on to their technologies and the world suffers for it. What do you think the lesson T'Challa learns at the end of Black Panther is? Having discussions about this movie here often feels like I'm trying to argue with people whose only experience with the movie is second-hand.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:33
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Arist posted:I actually watch Wakaliwood, dude, this is loving baseless Ok, so: what's your favorite Wakaliwood movie, and why doesn't it qualify as an important movie? Is it a 'stuffy period drama about slavery or civil rights'? You could really clarify what you're writing if you defined this nebulous "importance".
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Jun 9, 2020 17:37
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Arist posted:What do you think the lesson T'Challa learns at the end of Black Panther is? That T'Challa had to learn that lesson in the first place is problematic imo.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:41
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Arist posted:What do you think the lesson T'Challa learns at the end of Black Panther is? Having discussions about this movie here often feels like I'm trying to argue with people whose only experience with the movie is second-hand. That liberal interventionism is the correct answer to radical black politics.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:42
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Killmonger did nothing wrong.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:42
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Hmm, yes, the cultural impact of a bunch of (very talented, granted) dudes in Nigeria with virtually no budget or distribution scheme can totally be compared to the impact of the ninth-highest grossing film of all time and an entry in the most popular movie franchise ever made, based on the first black superhero in mainstream comics. This is a rational argument.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:44
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teagone posted:That T'Challa had to learn that lesson in the first place is problematic imo. The whole point is that blackness is not a monolith, dude
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Jun 9, 2020 17:45
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Zamunda > Wakanda
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Jun 9, 2020 17:49
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Arist posted:I actually watch Wakaliwood, dude, this is loving baseless Then what are you trying to say? Is BP important because other movies don’t portray black bodies/Africa in a positive way, or is it because it made a lot of money? The responses you’re getting here aren’t much different than Dabashi’s, or Kim Crenshaw’s, or Chris Lebron’s, or Adolph Reed’s. Representation is important, but what exactly is special about the depressingly rote, reactionary representation in BP specifically? edit: phone posting and it decided to insert code for me inside what i'd already put in, what a mess DeimosRising fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 17:53
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I refuse to believe anyone here legitimately needs me to justify why I think Black Panther is more culturally relevant than Who Killed Captain Alex? Like, come the gently caress on.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:57
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Arist posted:Hmm, yes, the cultural impact of a bunch of (very talented, granted) dudes in Nigeria with virtually no budget or distribution scheme can totally be compared to the impact of the ninth-highest grossing film of all time and an entry in the most popular movie franchise ever made, based on the first black superhero in mainstream comics. This is a rational argument. So "importance" is effectively being defined as "the degree to which a movie is the movie Black Panther" Like, I could point out that the first two big-budget Fantastic Four movies were directed by Tim Story of Barbershop fame (and formerly rapper MC Taste), but that's not "important" because those movies aren't Black Panther. They aren't about the character Black Panther, they were not owned by Disney at the time, and the first was popular enough to get a sequel but they nonethless had sort-of a mixed reception. Sorry Tim, but you just don't count. Now, on my side, I would say that there are plenty of blaxploitation films, by black directors, that have had more cultural impact than the Black Panther movie. Also, if Black Panther is only the ninth highest grossing movie ever made,* that means there are eight films that will forever be superior to it. Weird way to judge films. *It isn't. Adjusted for inflation, the ninth-highest-grossing movie actually The Exorcist, Star Wars 7, or Dr. Zhivago (various sources disagree).
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Jun 9, 2020 18:00
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I think my major issue isn't people hating on the MCU, whatever it's cool people like what they like and dislike what they dislike, it's just this subforum seems to revel in being nasty, smug, and holier than thou over everything. Like aside from the horror movie megathread it just seems like there's no actual enjoyment of film, just a desperate race to be the most witty and mean person here.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:03
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I enjoy the Avengers movies more than you do.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:09
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OpenSourceBurger posted:I think my major issue isn't people hating on the MCU, whatever it's cool people like what they like and dislike what they dislike, it's just this subforum seems to revel in being nasty, smug, and holier than thou over everything. Like aside from the horror movie megathread it just seems like there's no actual enjoyment of film, just a desperate race to be the most witty and mean person here. The Animation thread is pretty chill.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:09
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Arist posted:Hmm, yes, the cultural impact of a bunch of (very talented, granted) dudes in Nigeria with virtually no budget or distribution scheme can totally be compared to the impact of the ninth-highest grossing film of all time and an entry in the most popular movie franchise ever made, based on the first black superhero in mainstream comics. This is a rational argument. Are you talking about Ramon studio movies or Nigerian movies? i mean i guess you're not exactly talking about either but the ramon dudes are from Uganda. I'm having trouble following you sometimes. Arist posted:I refuse to believe anyone here legitimately needs me to justify why I think Black Panther is more culturally relevant than Who Killed Captain Alex? Like, come the gently caress on. Since you won't, it seems like implicitly you feel that "cultural relevance" is commensurate to tickets sold, in the US, in the last 20 years or so.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:11
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Yes, I forgot that Wakaliwood was Uganda, not Nigeria. I forgot which country it was and conflated them because SMG mentioned Nigeria first  It's more about mass exposure than tickets sold. Like, Avatar make 2 billion dollars but no one thinks about that movie any more. It's not culturally relevant.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:13
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OpenSourceBurger posted:I think my major issue isn't people hating on the MCU, whatever it's cool people like what they like and dislike what they dislike, it's just this subforum seems to revel in being nasty, smug, and holier than thou over everything. Like aside from the horror movie megathread it just seems like there's no actual enjoyment of film, just a desperate race to be the most witty and mean person here. Most Snyderdome posters enjoy Snyder films.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:19
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OpenSourceBurger posted:I think my major issue isn't people hating on the MCU, whatever it's cool people like what they like and dislike what they dislike, it's just this subforum seems to revel in being nasty, smug, and holier than thou over everything. Like aside from the horror movie megathread it just seems like there's no actual enjoyment of film, just a desperate race to be the most witty and mean person here. That's the case the forums over. I find goons often freak out over a 'tone' that is sometimes completely unintended/not even present, as well as carry a grudge, so whatcha gonna do? Not share your take on Yoda or Batman because someone out there will accuse you of being arrogant for not agreeing with a take you think isn't as solid?  a forum's discourse is only as good as it's participants posts, lurking until it reaches a 'better' place means waiting forever. Join in, and relax!
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Jun 9, 2020 18:32
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Blood Boils posted:That's the case the forums over. I find goons often freak out over a 'tone' that is sometimes completely unintended/not even present, as well as carry a grudge, so whatcha gonna do? While I agree you also have to look at poo poo that happened in this thread. The OP is considered a troll because they asked a simple question about MCU movies, someone defending them is on the Disney payroll because the signed up in April, the same 3 jokes (LOL MAYBE WATCH 22 GOOD MOVIES LMAO) are driven into the ground and then finally people are told to go to a completely dead subforum that was made for discussing 'lesser' films instead of cluttering up CD with this stuff. There's a massive difference in earnestly giving new ideas and film recommendations that you think are better than more popular ones and acticly mocking and insulting people for having differing tastes that may be not as sophisticated as you.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:40
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Arist posted:Like, Avatar make 2 billion dollars but no one thinks about that movie any more. It's not culturally relevant. That's not really a fair comparison because Avatar wasn't/isn't part of series that had sequels or related franchise films pumped out year after year to latch onto popular culture through the years. That might change when its sequels actually release, but part of the reason why a film like Avatar that grossed nearly 3 billion dollars worldwide hasn't retained a foothold in cultural relevancy is, imo, because it's one of those rare and unique films that was an original idea that wasn't marketed like most franchise driven films are today—and I say original in that it's not based off or adapted from any existing works. It was hugely derivative, sure, but no other film that generated as much box office revenue as Avatar was as filmmaker driven as James Cameron's weird alien cat lady fantasy movie.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:45
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If it’s just self-evident that Black Panther had a massive cultural impact, then I assume we can point to some massive resurgence of Afrofuturism. So where is it? Could it be that Black Panther is one of those movies like Jurassic World that has very little cultural impact even though it made a lot of money? Could it be that you have the causality backwards, and Disney was simply making money off of existing trends (hiring the hot new director of Creed to direct the dialogue scenes, etc.)? Was the marketing campaign for Black Panther not identical to that of Disney’s Lion King Remake? Is the Lion King remake the most important animated film of all time? Was Black Panther actually ripping off M. Night Shyamalan’s astonishing After Earth?
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Jun 9, 2020 18:46
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Blood Boils posted:That's the case the forums over. I find goons often freak out over a 'tone' that is sometimes completely unintended/not even present, as well as carry a grudge, so whatcha gonna do? I would have liked the mods to act on the shitposts on the first page a little faster (or at all) at bare minimum Blood Boils posted:The whole irl history of the CIA in Africa kinda taints whatever positive cultural significance the movie could have; sorta it covers it up unless the viewer was already aware! The alphabet agencies and in particular the CIA being dirty tricks organizations with legacies that are at best tainted is so ingrained in our culture and specifically our movies that it's really low hanging fruit. Basically unless you are literally the antagonist from The Shape of Water you're not really on the fence about the CIA, an organization that gets hate from both left and right. Also Black Panther is overtly about whether to meet the CIA blow-for-blow with its own tactics or not. Martin Freeman is treated like a self-interested ignoramus for most of the movie and ends up having to symbolically and literally endorse Wakandan power and autonomy.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:47
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Sodomy Hussein posted:The alphabet agencies and in particular the CIA being dirty tricks organizations with legacies that are at best tainted is so ingrained in our culture and specifically our movies that it's really low hanging fruit. Basically unless you are literally the antagonist from The Shape of Water you're not really on the fence about the CIA, an organization that gets hate from both left and right. Also Black Panther is overtly about whether to meet the CIA blow-for-blow with its own tactics or not. Martin Freeman is treated like a self-interested ignoramus for most of the movie and ends up having to symbolically and literally endorse Wakandan power and autonomy. Why does the Wakandan leader need this endorsement? If Freeman learns that the CIA is bad, why doesn’t he quit in shame?
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Jun 9, 2020 18:51
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OpenSourceBurger posted:people are told to go to a completely dead subforum that was made for discussing 'lesser' films instead of cluttering up CD with this stuff. Once again: Blockbuster Video is not a “lesser” subforum about “lesser” films. It was made specifically on the request of people who took issue with the tone and atmosphere of CineD. Blockbuster Video was the attempted solution at something many goons said was a problem, and any inactivity in the forum comes from a forums-wide lack of interest in the subforum, not out of any sense of shaming. I don’t condone the snippy posts made in this thread in the first few pages. I tried to help OP out even despite the fact that I greatly dislike the MCU, and even they acknowledged in the OP itself that they may not actually be able to skip any MCU movies. Posts like “watch good movies instead” are actively shutting down discussion, but also so are posts that claim entire arguments are invalid and won’t be entertained and just cursing out other members, and frankly it’s ridiculous it’s been allowed to go on this long.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:53
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Pirate Jet posted:Once again: Blockbuster Video is not a “lesser” subforum about “lesser” films. It was made specifically on the request of people who took issue with the tone and atmosphere of CineD. Blockbuster Video was the attempted solution at something many goons said was a problem, and any inactivity in the forum comes from a forums-wide lack of interest in the subforum, not out of any sense of shaming. Dude I'm cursing you out, specifically, because you're very blatantly antagonizing me, lmao
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Jun 9, 2020 18:56
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Arist posted:Dude I'm cursing you out, specifically, because you're very blatantly antagonizing me, lmao You take yourself so seriously it’s almost comical
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Jun 9, 2020 18:58
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Arist posted:Dude I'm cursing you out, specifically, because you're very blatantly antagonizing me, lmao Okay, so what’s your excuse for everyone else in the thread you’re doing it to? You had no intention of ever discussing in good faith, you came in here to air your complaints about CineD as a whole in a snarky and disingenuous way, and when people offered counterpoints you responded by claiming everyone else was mad while you went into a sheer rage. And you accuse us of gaslighting?
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Jun 9, 2020 18:59
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The extent to which Black Panther has had an impact vs the extent to which the Marvel Cinematic Universe has had an impact is interesting, imo. The answer obviously isn't zero, but it'd be unfair to compare it to any standalone film without taking it into account.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:02
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I am the End-Boss of this thread. In order to defeat me, you must curate the MCU for me. You must curate these films as though I am a first-time viewer. I expect a solid rationale. You have one day to stop the complaint, and save your planet from death.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:02
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