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I still don't understand why they give you so many cavaliers and paladins in most games. Like were they worried that Marcus/Marcus again/Seth/Titania weren't enough to teach people that mounted units are good?
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Jun 12, 2020 01:29
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Because generic knights are cavaliers and in a game with the aesthetics FE has, generic knights will be plentiful
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Jun 12, 2020 01:31
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I've never played a fire emblem where the stat caps actually matter and i pretty much never use berserkers ocean or mountain walk because fliers exist. Fair enough about bow and crits though. I still view main weapon as the second most important matter in a class (after movement type)
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Jun 12, 2020 01:36
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Last Celebration posted:Oh well yeah Oifey is by far the most dapper surrogate dad in basically the entire series no question, I thought you meant more “which foster dad did more for their kid?”  I'm still not sure if he's the "dad figure who did most for their kids", tho'. I mean, Oifey and Shannan had to take care of like 10 kids or so, while Finn was mostly just taking care of Leif and Nanna.
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Jun 12, 2020 01:37
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Caps matter a lot on Radiant Dawn specifically
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Jun 12, 2020 01:41
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I'm starting to think the most compelling casts in Fire Emblem are when you have two small armies. FE2/Echoes was like this and it worked really well. Radiant Dawn was at its best when it was telling this kind of story, too, even though the larger plot never really made sense. I think Three Houses would have been better if it were a story about Edelgard and Dimitri structured like this.
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Jun 12, 2020 01:51
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nrook posted:I'm starting to think the most compelling casts in Fire Emblem are when you have two small armies. FE2/Echoes was like this and it worked really well. Radiant Dawn was at its best when it was telling this kind of story, too, even though the larger plot never really made sense. I like the Golden Deer though, and I think 3H does a great job in characterization anyways, even if Claude ends up being a far more flat character than Edelgard and Dimitri.
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Jun 12, 2020 01:59
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claude is a flatter character because he's already perfect so there's nowhere to go from there
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Jun 12, 2020 02:01
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Since oifeye and jeigans got brought up I raise a question. Why the hell is this guy the one that gets to title the "good jeigan" type? He's almost immediately outclassed by the kids if you had any knowledge of inheritance at the start, and at the end he's completely worthless next to the lawnmowers the all become. Yes, you can send him out and won't instantly die, but the only real reason to deploy him is that he has a horse. He's no god among men like Seth/Titania. The best jeigan in the series is hands down fe6 Marcus on hard mode. Dude turns a nightmare into a trivial exp farm for your dudes.
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Jun 12, 2020 02:48
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Best Jagen is Seth or maybe Titania
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Jun 12, 2020 03:02
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FoolyCharged posted:Since oifeye and jeigans got brought up I raise a question. Because people were only looking at growths back when people were first talking about archetypes. So Oifey gets credit for being the first Jeigan with "good" growths even if he is worse as a long term unit than FE1 Jagen in their respective games.
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Jun 12, 2020 03:08
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Best Jagen is Jeigan. 
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Jun 12, 2020 03:26
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Also FE4's structure is such that you send out everyone anyway so people were using Oifey for clean up duty and minor assisting/bodyguard stuff, escorting NPCs, etc, because he was there anyway. So they went 'wow, a good jeigan!' when they could have been using any other jeigan for that also, but they didn't want to use the deployment slot on the 'exp thief.'
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Jun 12, 2020 03:26
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Blaze Dragon posted:I like the Golden Deer though, and I think 3H does a great job in characterization anyways, even if Claude ends up being a far more flat character than Edelgard and Dimitri. Having people like Judith and Nardel as his closest allies (and later Hilda and Holst) is one of the ways Claude is trying to stack the deck in his favor, much like how he treats Byleth as a means to achieving his goals. This is all so that when Claude wraps things up in Fodlan, he can swing to the east and deal with his homeland and basically go, "Hey, I just unified Fodlan and ended this huge war over there. Show some respect." to his detractors in Almyra. Only on Verdant Wind does Claude actually succeed. In all other routes, Claude goes home empty-handed and to a continued life of the status quo being unchanged and potentially more attempts on his life. Unfortunately, Claude suffers from some important character stuff being left on the cutting room floor (his real name, for instance), hence why he comes off as flat.
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Jun 12, 2020 03:28
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AradoBalanga posted:Claude's characterization kind of got hit in the localization. When Claude talks about his past in the original Japanese script, he always refers to himself as "this boy" and never uses the first person to describe himself. His support with Marianne is one of the few places it managed to not get altered significantly. Said support implies that Claude has not just being dealing with prejudice and racism, but a good number of assassination attempts from other Almyran figures trying to seize power. This results in Claude keeping everyone around him at arm's length; just enough to work with them but not enough to fully trust them right away. This gets reflected in how he drives Lorenz up a wall with his behavior (i.e., dodging Lorenz's questions about his heritage). Coupled that with reading between the lines, Claude's whole schtick is that while he's dealing with the Alliance, he's also juggling his right to the throne of Almyra. It's not just Count Gloucester and his faction that Claude is facing down, he is gambling on his success in Fodlan as a means to give him a leg up on Almyra's own clusterfuck of a situation. It's kind of why there are some who look at Claude's actions and realize that he and Edelgard share similar viewpoints (the status quo is strangling the continent, the church has a lot of power for a religious organization), and maybe they could have worked together. The difference is that Claude realizes that people can learn from their mistakes and grow into better people, while Edelgard is fully in "Burn it all down, start over from scratch" mode. I really like all Claude's background stuff. His issue is that he's just so darn good at lying that even the player doesn't get to see much of his true self.
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Jun 12, 2020 03:35
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professor metis posted:I really like all Claude's background stuff. His issue is that he's just so darn good at lying that even the player doesn't get to see much of his true self.
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Jun 12, 2020 03:47
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I've still not played Verdant Wind but reading that just makes me wonder why he just gives up on the other routes. Like, can't do it "right" so not worth doing at all, I guess?
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Jun 12, 2020 03:48
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fond memories of forcing marcus to remain on his starting tile for entire chapters so he couldn't get into fights and steal exp. death to false optimization
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Jun 12, 2020 04:03
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rannum posted:I've still not played Verdant Wind but reading that just makes me wonder why he just gives up on the other routes. Like, can't do it "right" so not worth doing at all, I guess? One of his character flaws is he doesn't go all in. You see it most prominently with him expecting Hilda to run, but it comes up all through. Claude wants to live to fight another day more than he wants to win, unlike Edelgard, who demands victory or death, or Dimitri, who's mostly just in it for death as things go on. Without Byleth encouraging him, he can't commit even when a win is unlikely, so he eventually loses.
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Jun 12, 2020 04:04
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rannum posted:I've still not played Verdant Wind but reading that just makes me wonder why he just gives up on the other routes. Like, can't do it "right" so not worth doing at all, I guess?
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Jun 12, 2020 04:09
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chiasaur11 posted:One of his character flaws is he doesn't go all in. You see it most prominently with him expecting Hilda to run, but it comes up all through. Claude wants to live to fight another day more than he wants to win, unlike Edelgard, who demands victory or death, or Dimitri, who's mostly just in it for death as things go on. When he (I guess I'll spoil this just in case? Azure Moon) gives the Alliance over to Dimitri, Dimitri has gotten out of his revenge & trauma fueled funk. At this point he just wants to try speaking to Edelgard, find out more about her motivations and hopefully ending this war sooner than later. The feel I got was basically achieving a new peace between the 3 Houses (& also Byleth) that could make changes moving forward together. It always kind of bugged me that he just dropped full control over 1/3rd of the continent on Dimitri's lap and went "peace!". It seems if in any situation there was an opportunity to get what he wants, it'd be one of the three (four (but really 3 rip El)) leaders unifying Fodlan. I mean narratively for that route I understand you need Claude out of the picture but I expected him to you know, be there in spirit, off screen, helping things when Edelgard's defeated. I guess with the flaw in mind the idea is even this he took as something he wouldn't be able to do, so just hand it to someone who can and leave?
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Jun 12, 2020 04:14
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rannum posted:I've still not played Verdant Wind but reading that just makes me wonder why he just gives up on the other routes. Like, can't do it "right" so not worth doing at all, I guess? It kinda ties into how all the three house members are, in their own ways, broken and overfocused on different time periods: Dimitri is chained to his past through his ghosts and trauma, Claude talks big about future dreams but is honestly most concerned with his own immediate present survival and Edelgard is willing to dismiss the past and burn the present in order to get a better future. Shinji117 fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jun 12, 2020 |
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Jun 12, 2020 04:15
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AradoBalanga posted:To expand on what chiasaur said, my take on it is that it varies by route. Crimson Flower is obviously "Claude loses hard" and can potentially die in process, otherwise he limps back to Almyra a broken man. Azure Moon gives the impression that Claude sees the victories that Byleth wins (coupled with the losses he's been dealt thanks to Gronder Field), and is like "Yeah, I totally cannot compete with that". His surrender/dissolving the Alliance is ultimately Claude deciding to live on rather than oppose the raging storm of vengeance that is Dimitri, even though Dimitri has mellowed out by the time that happens. Silver Snow is the route I have not played yet, so I'm assuming that Claude's deal is similar to Azure Moon (Byleth's sweeping through Fodlan and winning, so better to get out of the way and live on). OKay having that lined out I can see what you mean, that seems to track. Though minor point fwiw I think Claude knew Dimitri had mellowed out by this point, he had a fair degree of trust I don't think he'd have otherwise. The fact Dimitri decided to return to liberate the Kingdom instead of continue ahead to Adrestrian territory probably spoke volumes about a change in character.
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Jun 12, 2020 04:18
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At the end of the day, Claude does have an arc, it's not as in-your-face loud compared to Edelgard and Dimitri. Having the meat of the arc be dependent on the player observing the actions and behavior of Claude (and those around him) doesn't help matters either. Which honestly is a nice contrast to Edelgard and Dimitri, but one that some people would have issues with because the arc is more subtle. It wasn't until re-reading dialogue that I realized that Claude's quick move to fold when things break down is present from early on. When Claude is joking about using underhanded tactics in the mock battle or in the first Gronder match, as soon as Edelgard and Dimitri walk over and call him out, Claude folds and decides to play fair. Both scenes are framed as comedic and light-hearted, but they are actually designed to show the player how Claude operates. It's just that thanks to the framing, you don't pick it up right away.
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Jun 12, 2020 04:46
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Onmi posted:FE6 is about providing options, you know, in case someone dies? There is, minimum, 2-3 characters of each class to essentially do the same job, usually two unpromoted, one promoted. Once more, you operate under the mindset of "Ugh there's so much given" but turn the thinking around for a second and compare FE6 to Three Houses and if someone dies in FE6, it doesn't really matter. Sure, I lost Dieck, and Dieck is cool, and strong, but Ogier and Echidna are both heroes who are just as good. Yeah, Clarine didn't turn out, but Cecilia fills the same role. Yes, Geese and Gonzales both come together, because if you got only one and they died there wouldn't be anyone to replace them.
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Jun 12, 2020 05:00
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Back to FE7, my Eliwood has procced strength on every level up and has 14 strength after eating an Energy Ring in Chapter 1. He's the best boy.
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Jun 12, 2020 05:05
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AradoBalanga posted:At the end of the day, Claude does have an arc, it's not as in-your-face loud compared to Edelgard and Dimitri. Having the meat of the arc be dependent on the player observing the actions and behavior of Claude (and those around him) doesn't help matters either. Which honestly is a nice contrast to Edelgard and Dimitri, but one that some people would have issues with because the arc is more subtle. It wasn't until re-reading dialogue that I realized that Claude's quick move to fold when things break down is present from early on. When Claude is joking about using underhanded tactics in the mock battle or in the first Gronder match, as soon as Edelgard and Dimitri walk over and call him out, Claude folds and decides to play fair. Both scenes are framed as comedic and light-hearted, but they are actually designed to show the player how Claude operates. It's just that thanks to the framing, you don't pick it up right away. That and his general lack of homicidal tendencies pre or post time skip is why he’s my favorite of the three.
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Jun 12, 2020 06:32
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Amppelix posted:I agree with this but it misses the incredibly obvious point that the game is simply harder if you can't freely send your units on suicide missions, which well enough justifies classic mode's existence. I have never played the game without permadeath on, in fact, and it works fine.
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Jun 12, 2020 13:17
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Of course I play it in the dumb way I play every FE, which is restarting if I actually lose a unit, but I played FE 6 that way as well. All you'd have to do to ensure you have backup unites in 3H if you actually let your units die is recruit everyone, though. You'll easily have extras in every class/niche.
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Jun 12, 2020 13:20
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Geostomp posted:That and his general lack of homicidal tendencies pre or post time skip is why he’s my favorite of the three. Huh, that's why he's my least favourite.
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Jun 12, 2020 13:24
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Huh, that's why he's my least favourite. In a story where everyone is getting dark and unreasonable, having someone relatively calm is very refreshing. It’s why his route gets closer to the truth than either of the other two.
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Jun 12, 2020 13:40
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character drama is way more interesting than the truth, imo
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Jun 12, 2020 14:16
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Both are important aspects of a good story and I am happy that the story routes cater to both types of players' preferences and offer a new perspective on the game
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Jun 12, 2020 15:56
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capitaldelendaest posted:Of course I play it in the dumb way I play every FE, which is restarting if I actually lose a unit
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Jun 12, 2020 16:10
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Endorph posted:This dumb way is how the current developers play and what classic modes since awakening have clearly been designed around The Developers play "Reset on unit Death" the Players play on "Reset on unit Death" and the Developers know that the players do this. Yet after 30 years, Three whole Decades, enough time for a generation to have been born, get married, and have their own children, we still do not have a "Reset Map" button on the pause menu. And the Turnwheel/Pulse still isn't that. Both because some of us like not having the temptation (It should be an option at the start like Classic/Casual) but it also has limited uses and turn amounts. So you can only use it to restart the map X times and god help you if it's a long map.
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Jun 12, 2020 16:57
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quote:Yet after 30 years, Three whole Decades, enough time for a generation to have been born, get married, and have their own children, we still do not have a "Reset Map" button on the pause menu. yeah, I don't get this other than they enjoy letting your frustration build up as you reset your console
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Jun 12, 2020 17:25
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Endorph posted:This dumb way is how the current developers play and what classic modes since awakening have clearly been designed around Just a little self-depreciation, tongue in cheek. As you point out, it's actually quite well supported in modern games, especially with the Divine Pulse. I find it still adds to the experience to have permadeath on because it adds to the challenge to have my fail state be 'any time you lose a unit', and as someone else pointed out, not be able to freely sacrifice them for objectives.
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Jun 12, 2020 17:39
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galagazombie posted:The Developers play "Reset on unit Death" the Players play on "Reset on unit Death" and the Developers know that the players do this. Yet after 30 years, Three whole Decades, enough time for a generation to have been born, get married, and have their own children, we still do not have a "Reset Map" button on the pause menu. And the Turnwheel/Pulse still isn't that. Both because some of us like not having the temptation (It should be an option at the start like Classic/Casual) but it also has limited uses and turn amounts. So you can only use it to restart the map X times and god help you if it's a long map.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:12
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Though Three Houses has quite the hefty load time, unfortunately
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Jun 12, 2020 18:15
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rannum posted:Though Three Houses has quite the hefty load time, unfortunately It was almost bearable on the GBA games since those cartridges practically had negative load times, but now in addition to longer load times the games also have like five times as many menus to go through before you start the level.
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Jun 12, 2020 19:03
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