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thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

Ola posted:

I've seen Raisins Gaulois in the natural shelf many times, funny label. I'll give Ch. Cambon a try.

Ch. Cambon (Beaujolais) is pretty conventional tasting. I would say it's a light mix of a barbera and pinot maybe? Nothing special, but a nice pasta/pizza wine for about 200 NOK.

Today I had the sparkling rosê from Progetto Calcarius, called Freccianera. It was very nice! Very yeasty, natural cider aromas mixed with strawberries, herbs and maybe rhubarb. Would be wonderful with BBQ.

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Ola
Jul 19, 2004

thotsky posted:

Ch. Cambon (Beaujolais) is pretty conventional tasting. I would say it's a light mix of a barbera or a pinot maybe? Nothing special, but a nice pasta/pizza wine for about 200 NOK.

Today I had the sparkling rosê from Progetto Calcarius, called Freccianera. It was very nice! Very yeasty, natural cider aromas mixed with strawberries, herbs and maybe rhubarb. Would be wonderful with BBQ.

Ok, I thought it was a good example of Cru Bojo. If you know some good non-banana ones available, let me know.

Is the rosé this one? https://www.vinmonopolet.no/Land/Italia/Calcarius-Ca-40-08-Freccianera-2019/p/11949601

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

Ola posted:

Ok, I thought it was a good example of Cru Bojo. If you know some good non-banana ones available, let me know.

Is the rosé this one? https://www.vinmonopolet.no/Land/Italia/Calcarius-Ca-40-08-Freccianera-2019/p/11949601

Yep on the Rosê. Let me log into my google keep and I'll make some Bojo recs since you're set on using money on a style you don't like ;)

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

thotsky posted:

Yep on the Rosê. Let me log into my google keep and I'll make some Bojo recs since you're set on using money on a style you don't like ;)

Haha! Thanks. One last chance. I guess it's just a wisdom of crowds thing, even if it's hip so many people can't be all wrong. And if the quality is good, but I still don't like it, then I know something for sure about my taste in wines and can rule something out of the Venn diagram.

I like the look of that rosé, the slightly matte color and the gradient down the bottle looks super juicy berry gluggable.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
Fleurie is my cru of choice, but there are no producers with good ones that I've actually tried yet in stock right now.

Foillard Morgon Côte du Py - Maybe the best Morgon? Big and leans conventional. Also has a Fleurie in stock that I've ordered, but not tried yet. Try this one if you only try one.

https://www.vinmonopolet.no/vmp/Land/Frankrike/Foillard-Morgon-C%C3%B4te-du-Py-2018/p/5117601

A. Sunier Régnié Montmerond - Somewhat natty, one of my fav crus. Needs 30-60 min to let the barnyard dissipate.

https://www.vinmonopolet.no/vmp/Land/Frankrike/A-Sunier-R%C3%A9gni%C3%A9-Montmerond-2018/p/11057001

A. Thévenet Morgon Vieilles-Vignes - Good Morgon, sort of dusty.

https://www.vinmonopolet.no/vmp/Land/Frankrike/A-Th%C3%A9venet-Morgon-Vieilles-Vignes/p/10136601

Thillardon Chénas Chassignol - Really nice, pretty conventional. Smooth.

https://www.vinmonopolet.no/vmp/Land/Frankrike/Thillardon-Ch%C3%A9nas-Chassignol-2018/p/11849301

Dom. de la Grand'Cour Brouilly Vieilles Vignes (Dutraive) - Another big bojo, like a Morgon. They also have a Fleurie now, which I've ordered, but not tried.

https://www.vinmonopolet.no/vmp/Land/Frankrike/Dom-de-la-Grand%27Cour-Brouilly-Vieilles-Vignes-2017/p/10159301

K. Descombes Morgon Vieilles Vignes - A good Morgon with some age; 2016 is my favorite year for Bojo right now.

https://www.vinmonopolet.no/vmp/Land/Frankrike/K-Descombes-Morgon-Vieilles-Vignes-2016/p/10875901

Yohan Lardy Moulin-à-Vent Vieilles Vignes de 1903 - Probably too much banana for you, but a good Moulin-à-Vent.

https://www.vinmonopolet.no/vmp/Land/Frankrike/Yohan-Lardy-Moulin-%C3%A0-Vent-Vieilles-Vignes-de-1903-2017/p/10414601

Alex Foillard Brouilly - Quite natty, probably too much banana, which is a shame because this is light and very drinkable.

https://www.vinmonopolet.no/vmp/Land/Frankrike/Alex-Foillard-Brouilly/p/10910801

I'm excited to try Marc Delienne Abbaye Road, another Fleurie that I've ordered, maybe I'll host a Fleurie night for some friends when corona dies down...

thotsky fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Jun 5, 2020

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

Ola posted:

Haha! Thanks. One last chance. I guess it's just a wisdom of crowds thing, even if it's hip so many people can't be all wrong. And if the quality is good, but I still don't like it, then I know something for sure about my taste in wines and can rule something out of the Venn diagram.

I like the look of that rosé, the slightly matte color and the gradient down the bottle looks super juicy berry gluggable.

Don't they have hipster wine bars where you are at? Down here every one has a gamay on the board at all times. If they're doing it right you should be allowed a taste before you buy, good way to get it out of your system.

thotsky fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jun 5, 2020

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

thotsky posted:

Don't they have hipster wine bars where you are at? Down here every one has a gamay on the board at all times. If they're doing it right you should be allowed a taste before you buy, good way to get it out of your system.

In Bergen, Don Pippo is the best one I think, but they're not so eager on Bojo. Thanks for the big post, all the ones I clicked on are out, which kind of makes sense. They don't get those perennial SKUs the classic ones get, because the next vintage can have completely different names, importers etc. Go to the nat shelf, find Bojo, ask staff for "juicy, no banana". I'll try that, but no rush!

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

Ola posted:

In Bergen, Don Pippo is the best one I think, but they're not so eager on Bojo. Thanks for the big post, all the ones I clicked on are out, which kind of makes sense. They don't get those perennial SKUs the classic ones get, because the next vintage can have completely different names, importers etc. Go to the nat shelf, find Bojo, ask staff for "juicy, no banana". I'll try that, but no rush!

All the ones I linked should be orderable to your home or local monopoly; I would not link you to stuff they can't deliver for free.

edit: ah, the j.p thenevet sold out just now, removed it.

Interesting that Bojo is placed with the nat in Bergen, down here it's generally a pretty large section of the french reds.

thotsky fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jun 5, 2020

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

thotsky posted:

All the ones I linked should be orderable to your home or local monopoly; I would not link you to stuff they can't deliver for free.

edit: ah, the j.p thenevet sold out just now, removed it.

Interesting that Bojo is placed with the nat in Bergen, down here it's generally a pretty large section of the french reds.

Oh right, perhaps I got unlucky with a few clicks but yeah I can definitely order some of those. Thanks again for the list. The nat shelf at Valkendorf or Bystasjonen is in the cooler next to Champagne and Bordeaux and has glou-glou stuff, orange, Frank Cornelissen etc, the French section out in the regular store space has your Nouveau, CdR, Arrogant Frog, endless Cab Sauv etc, and perhaps many bottles of Beaujolais cru as well, but that's all the stuff I've tried before and has led me to this final reckoning. I don't think there's a huge difference between one or another bottle from the same region, which is a great quality in itself, as far as an overwhelmed buyer is concerned.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

Mr Ampeau under the trees is falling down a bit near the end. One way of knowing properly good wine is if it still tastes good way out of temp. This one feels very flat when slightly warm, I think that's a lack of acidity. Hardly a strict finger you can point at a 25, going on 26 year old white wine. For the same money and immediate drinking I might pick something else though, but it's nice to have the opportunity to visit this world. All those premox bottles of the later 90s and 00s, they're not getting much attention at 26 I think.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear

Ola posted:

One way of knowing properly good wine is if it still tastes good way out of temp.
Maybe when young. I've drunk lots of very high-end N Rhone (think Verset, Chave, Jamet) from the '80s and '90s that needs to be on the cool side to taste good (and good means mind-blowing)

Never could bring myself to purchase Ampeau. I try not to spend money on something that's clearly good but not amazing. That doesn't mean I only buy expensive trophies - for example I have lots of Fevre Chablis - but rather the Fevre is Clos/Preuses/Bougros etc instead of say their villages bottling. Would rather have two of the former than six of the latter

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear

thotsky posted:

Fleurie is my cru of choice, but there are no producers with good ones that I've actually tried yet in stock right now.
No mention of Lapierre? For shame :p

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

got off on a technicality posted:

Maybe when young. I've drunk lots of very high-end N Rhone (think Verset, Chave, Jamet) from the '80s and '90s that needs to be on the cool side to taste good (and good means mind-blowing)

Never could bring myself to purchase Ampeau. I try not to spend money on something that's clearly good but not amazing. That doesn't mean I only buy expensive trophies - for example I have lots of Fevre Chablis - but rather the Fevre is Clos/Preuses/Bougros etc instead of say their villages bottling. Would rather have two of the former than six of the latter

Yeah, I love Fevre. But a new bottle of Preuses used to be around $50 a few years ago, now its almost the same as the aged Ampeau! I don't have good room for storage right now so I don't really buy good stuff for laying down.

Ola fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Jun 6, 2020

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

got off on a technicality posted:

No mention of Lapierre? For shame :p

We spoke about them, they're Morgon though right? None of their high end cuvees are in stock right now. The Ch. Cambon label is available and good, but I would pick cuvees from other producers if I could only pick one.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
Fevre Chablis used to sell a lot at the duty-free so people would bring me them for parties. Good with fish, and especially crab, but I don't seek it out myself for some reason. I should probably drink more of it; I've just been focusing on Chenin Blanc for dry french whites recently.

thotsky fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Jun 6, 2020

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear

thotsky posted:

We spoke about them, they're Morgon though right? None of their high end cuvees are in stock right now. The Ch. Cambon label is available and good, but I would pick cuvees from other producers if I could only pick one.

Sorry for some reason I completely missed that you were talking about Fleurie

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
I''ll be having the Alex Foillard Cote de Broilly 2018 today with a steak: Started letting it air out 20 minutes ago, probably won't eat for another hour at least. It's nice! Very assertive, although it does not quite have the body of a big Morgon. I chalk it up to a really big acid component (not VA) and a lot of hot alcohol esters in the nose. The alcohol, yeast and fruit qualities does not come across as banana to me, but my guess is that it would for someone sensitive. I get cherries, and a hint of the violets that I look for in good natty bojos from Fleurie in the nose. There's some tannins to this as well, which adds to a blackberry impression when drinking.

obi_ant
Apr 8, 2005

Drinking a Senor De Lesmos 'Reserva' from the Rioja. Great cheapish wine, running at $20. Lots of spice, black pepper and dark blue fruit with a touch of overly ripe raspberries. Nothing too complex or deep. Great into into that region.

Penguinone
Nov 28, 2007

Anyone have any opinions on Bordeaux futures this year? The prices I’m seeing are super low compared to both current retail and historical futures pricing. Thinking about picking up a few bottles, Palmer in particular is looking like it’s priced pretty attractively.

Turds in magma
Sep 17, 2007
can i get a transform out of here?
Is there a glassware thread? Strong opinions here? Zwiesel? Riedel? Spiegelau? Is there some secret value brand that's better for less?

knox_harrington
Feb 18, 2011

Running no point.

Turds in magma posted:

Is there a glassware thread? Strong opinions here? Zwiesel? Riedel? Spiegelau? Is there some secret value brand that's better for less?

They all have pretty good value options. Riedel is pretty benchmark but don't look too fancy. What do you want?

Riedel vinum riesling are pretty good for most things.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Turds in magma posted:

Is there a glassware thread? Strong opinions here? Zwiesel? Riedel? Spiegelau? Is there some secret value brand that's better for less?

Zalto is cheap for hand blown glass, which is to say not cheap at all.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

Turds in magma posted:

Is there a glassware thread? Strong opinions here? Zwiesel? Riedel? Spiegelau? Is there some secret value brand that's better for less?

Riedel is too expensive for a pretty boring design, you pay a lot for the name. Spiegelau is the best bang for the buck, and are quite sturdy too. The Authentis series especially undercut Riedel so bad they bought the entire brand, which should have been an antitrust case. Zaltos are amazing, but will break if you as much as look at them, which makes their high price hurt even more.

If you don't have a particular design in mind I'd go for the Spiegelau Authentis series. Their universal / water glasses are nice if you only want a single type and drink mostly white, but I like their Bordeaux glass the most.

thotsky fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jun 13, 2020

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear

Turds in magma posted:

Is there a glassware thread? Strong opinions here? Zwiesel? Riedel? Spiegelau? Is there some secret value brand that's better for less?

There is indeed a secret value brand for hand blown glasses called Grassl. I've been pretty happy with mine (I have the Liberte and the Cru). For a value play you could look at their "tasting" glasses, which are $120 for 6 I believe (cjfselections.com; I'm not affiliated)

I do like Gabriel Glas Golds for the extreme lightness - it's a magical feeling - but they're expensive. These days I find myself using my Grassl Libertes instead of my GGGs, and they are very similar in shape

Zaltos are also good but I don't own any; people I know swear by the Zalto Bordeaux as a general purpose glass

Riedel is IMO overly expensive for what you get

Zwiesel is a good value play

Also you could check out Lehmann, which is pretty popular in Europe, and then Jancis Robinson has launched her own line of glasses that I've never tried but are supposed to be very good (skurnikhospitality.com; I'm not affiliated)

e: I've never tried Spiegelau

got off on a technicality fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Jun 13, 2020

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear

Penguinone posted:

Anyone have any opinions on Bordeaux futures this year? The prices I’m seeing are super low compared to both current retail and historical futures pricing. Thinking about picking up a few bottles, Palmer in particular is looking like it’s priced pretty attractively.

Agreed on Palmer, I also have been tempted by Lynch Bages

Then I think of all the time I have to wait (I like them really old), and it makes me go back to my auction sites...

CleverHans
Apr 25, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 9 years!
Agree with pretty much all of the glasschat everyone is putting out.

One other thing to consider, if you are looking for durability, is the Schott Zwiesel Tritan line.

If Zaltos are Samuel Jackson/Mr. Glass from Unbreakable these suckers are Bruce Willis - I have seen them take falls I never would have expected them to survive.

CleverHans fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Jun 13, 2020

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006

Soiled Meat
I did the whole Zalto, Gabriel Gold madness and am now on the new WB/FB hotness that is Glasvin, which is significantly cheaper than the previous two with a fairly close thin/lightweight quality.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

I like my Riedel Vinum Burgundy I got on a sale. Full price is just a bit too expensive. I used to think they were quite delicate, but after handling some very fine Zaltos at a tasting or something, it feels like a coffee mug. I use it for all sorts, today a Chapoutier Hermitage 2008, which is a new release he's been holding on to due to a bad year.



But it's not supposed to look like that is it. Thankfully returnable.


Penguinone posted:

Anyone have any opinions on Bordeaux futures this year? The prices I’m seeing are super low compared to both current retail and historical futures pricing. Thinking about picking up a few bottles, Palmer in particular is looking like it’s priced pretty attractively.

I've done it once, bought 2016 Cos for €139 before tax. Turned out to be a very good deal. Looks like it's in the €150s for the 2019. Still, I don't know... it's good, but so many other things are good as well. And I'd have to travel to pick it up due to :norway: complications.

Penguinone
Nov 28, 2007

Ola posted:



I've done it once, bought 2016 Cos for €139 before tax. Turned out to be a very good deal. Looks like it's in the €150s for the 2019. Still, I don't know... it's good, but so many other things are good as well. And I'd have to travel to pick it up due to :norway: complications.


Ok, having to travel to pick it up sounds like it definitely wouldn’t be worth it. Yeah, the shop that’s about half a mile from me is offering Cos for $153 USD, so like €135. Palmer is $200-ish. I ended up picking up a few bottles of Palmer and Lynch-Bages this year.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear

Ola posted:



But it's not supposed to look like that is it. Thankfully returnable.
:stonk:

I've had 40-year old Sauternes that was less brown

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004
Reposting this from the Roman history thread, I thought it was an interesting watch.
https://youtu.be/qhN-o2ame-4

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear

Stringent posted:

Reposting this from the Roman history thread, I thought it was an interesting watch.
https://youtu.be/qhN-o2ame-4

Thank you for this. Fascinating and horrifying, especially as someone who loves sweet riesling

taco show
Oct 6, 2011

motherforker


Idk of any of y’all follow court drama but Richard Betts (MS) just resigned from CMSA: https://medium.com/@yobetts/my-resignation-from-the-court-of-master-sommeliers-americas-90bbfc8f815d

And so the court just released a very milquetoast statement that all the board members are taking implicit bias training and establishing a “diversity committee”, but doesn’t say who is on it.

I’m glad they’re acknowledging the problem, but I don’t have high hopes for the organization to change. They’re (imo) part of WHY the wine world continues to be overwhelmingly rich straight white old dudes. Also their handling of the MS exam in 2018 was a complete shitshow.

Anyway I drank some 2014 Ridge Lytton Estate Syrah last night bc it’s grilling season and it’s tasty as gently caress.

Pyf syrahs/Shiraz

Skooms
Nov 5, 2009

taco show posted:

Idk of any of y’all follow court drama but Richard Betts (MS) just resigned from CMSA: https://medium.com/@yobetts/my-resignation-from-the-court-of-master-sommeliers-americas-90bbfc8f815d

And so the court just released a very milquetoast statement that all the board members are taking implicit bias training and establishing a “diversity committee”, but doesn’t say who is on it.

I’m glad they’re acknowledging the problem, but I don’t have high hopes for the organization to change. They’re (imo) part of WHY the wine world continues to be overwhelmingly rich straight white old dudes. Also their handling of the MS exam in 2018 was a complete shitshow.

Anyway I drank some 2014 Ridge Lytton Estate Syrah last night bc it’s grilling season and it’s tasty as gently caress.

Pyf syrahs/Shiraz

Here to agree! I went all the way to the advanced course before I couldn't handle it anymore. Once I got interested in the rest of the world of wine it became crystal clear to me that the court is stuck somewhere in the mid century. The service standards they ask you to execute are also totally out of touch with the current expectations of 'fine wine service." No tasting before serving, etc. The constant "be humble" and frat boy poo poo makes my skin crawl, too. gently caress them.

Caleb Ganzer (@ganzer_wein) and Miguel de Leon (@migueld1) are two loud voices in NYC highlighting the CMSA bullshit. Highly recommend following them.

Jean-Paul Shartre
Jan 16, 2015

this sentence no verb


taco show posted:

Pyf syrahs/Shiraz

de iuliis limited release 2016. Have one bottle left of what I picked up in the Hunter, it's been really hard sitting on it. Will likely find an occasion this fall to do something with pork or roast chicken and indulge.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

taco show posted:



Pyf syrahs/Shiraz

Cheap Chave! He can do no wrong in my book, and by book I mean my accounting book, which is not big enough for his famous bottles. But his lower end stuff feels like it's made with same craftsmanship. The Saint Joseph Offerus is pretty amazing in how it can be so concentrated and powerful, yet so drinkable young. Perhaps not my all-time favorite syrah of anything, but worth mentioning.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear

taco show posted:

Pyf syrahs/Shiraz

Domaine Lionnet Cornas Terre Brulee

Strikes a nice balance: recognizably Cornas (iron, pepper, stern tannins) without being overly rustic, sweet dark fruit without being overly glossy or modern. Under $50 a bottle. One of the most promising N Rhone upstarts in my view

Crimson
Nov 7, 2002
Love Pax Mahle's Syrahs. Red Car Estate Syrahs from 2012 through maybe 2017 were amazing, when Carroll was still making the wines. The Peay Family kills it with their cool climate renditions. From the Old World, I love Gangloff, particularly the cheaper La Barbarine.

Also as someone who has taken the MS a few times (unfortunately) and have plans to sit next year, I'm very much watching how this all plays out. I think the leadership at the CMS has failed to acknowledge for a long time that their current structure seems to produce a bunch of straight white men as master sommeliers. Trying to pretend there is no bias in your hierarchy doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I trust that if Richard Betts is that disgusted with more insider knowledge than I have access to that there really are many problems with the internal workings of the court. I also very much agree with him that their handling of the cheating scandal was a catastrophe.

They announced the 4 main people on the diversity committee, which was encouraging as I think very highly of all of them. Vincent Morrow in particular is just a bad rear end. He was part of the group that had his pin taken away (wrongly) after the cheating scandal, and he went back and passed again. He's not the type of person to head a meaningless committee so they can all feel good about themselves, I expect to see some real change.

obi_ant
Apr 8, 2005

I was recently gifted a bottle of 2009 Lopez de Heredia Viña Tondonia Gran Reserva Rosado. The gift giver said that some of my other wine nerd friends will appreciate it. I was planning to save it and open it with them when this Coivd thing is over, but I don't have a cool place to store any wine and it's getting pretty hot where I live. So... I'm going to drink this fairly soon. Any suggestions on a food pairing with this wine in particular?

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taco show
Oct 6, 2011

motherforker


For whatever reason, that rose is super hard to come by in Chicago (the retailers here only got something like 2 cases?) I barely snagged one that was hidden away in the fancy wine cave next to the $$$ Bordeaux.

Anyway imo the best thing with rose is charcuterie so for this one eat a lot of jamon!

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