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Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



Dewgy posted:

The Rocksteady Batman games do that at least in part, to the point where Knight is kind of overwhelming if you aren’t quite ready for it.

Oh, that was one franchise I was thinking about and honestly couldn't remember. I probably played Knight too soon after the others for that to stand out as a major challenge I guess.

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CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
Doom Eternal gives you all of the power-ups from the previous game in the first like 30 seconds (chainsaw, double jump, suit mod chips and weapon upgrade bots), and you've got all of the new ones by level 3 or 4 (the dash, blood punch, grenade launcher/flamethrower).

Punished Chuck
Dec 27, 2010

Yakuza 4 has you play as 3 new characters for the first 75% of the game, and then when you play as Kiryu he’s already about as strong at level one as the other characters are towards the end of their sections and he starts with a bunch of abilities from the previous game already unlocked.

My favorite is that Yakuza 3 introduced a feature where if you used a heat action enough times you’d unlock the ability to do a follow-up attack for a little extra damage. In 4 Kiryu’s heat attacks have the follow-up by default and using it enough unlocks a second follow-up

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


Dante in DMC4 and 5 shows up with a disgusting number of returning moves, gadgets and styles compared to everyone else.

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.
Bought Command and Conquer: Remastered, and it's been a LONG time since I played any C&C game, let alone the original, and I forgot that friendly fire exist, and most units are too stupid to not get hit by it.

Example:
In one of the earliest missions, you have to destroy several SAM sites so you can call in an airstrike to take out a NOD base. The only units you can create at this point, since it's like the 3rd or 4th mission, are regular infantry and grenadier units. Bizarrely, and against general laws of physics, the grenadiers have a longer range for their hand-thrown grenades than the infantry do for their guns. So if you have a group of them you're trying to attack ANYTHING, be it the SAM sites or enemy units, if it's a mixed group of grenadiers and infantry attacking, the infantry will get in too close and get hit by the splash damage of the grenadiers.

A HUNGRY MOUTH
Nov 3, 2006

date of birth: 02/05/88
manufacturer: mazda
model/year: 2008 mazda6
sexuality: straight, bi-curious
peircings: pusspuss



Nap Ghost

JackSplater posted:

Gungeon is decent, but has some utterly inane design decisions. For a game about guns it sure likes to not give you guns, and actively refuses to give you the chance to save any dropped things on a floor for later.

And the floor shortcut elevator unlocks are absurd. You need to bring specific parts for every floor repair, and they have to be all at once and can't be in parts Sometimes they're something like "400 shells and 4 keys" which basically means you do 4-5 floors with no guns other than what the bosses drop. And your reward is losing out on the chance for more guns to make things easier

(re: minor Gungeon spoilers) I wish the game would make it clear that it holds only minimal, situational endgame benefit for players who already know what they're doing. I feel like the ridiculously huge costs are meant to be discouraging, but I've seen so many new players think, "That's so expensive, it must be great!" Then they make it their top priority when they aren't even reliably beating the stage they want to skip and become frustrated at having to accumulate all those resources.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!

Inspector Gesicht posted:

Dante in DMC4 and 5 shows up with a disgusting number of returning moves, gadgets and styles compared to everyone else.

Nero also has a lot of his old unlockable combo moves baked into his standard attack chain now, and the buster robo-arm gives you the full functionality of the one from DMC4. Takes a while to unlock it though.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

The Moon Monster posted:

Yeah, if they were still in their original state those youtubers with Eden win streaks in the 100s probably wouldn't be a thing.

I think the record is somewhere in the 900s. I watch a dude who runs a self-inflicted modified ruleset where he has to take every item offered and even he's almost to 400 now.


BoI's aesthetics are weird. I loving hated how the original game looked but Rebirth doesn't faze me much at all. Though while we're on the subject, an actual BoI complaint of mine: Champion enemies are differentiated mostly by color, but the effect is achieved by layering that color over top the existing enemy sprite. This means certain combos can be incredibly hard to notice and in the case of two types leads to a bad overlap where it's sometimes hard to be sure if an enemy is blue because they're weaker and going to spawn friendly flies on death OR they have normal health and are going to fire 8-way shots on death. Edit: Oh, and a lot of status effects do the same thing. So you can have three way competing colors on a single enemy.

John Murdoch has a new favorite as of 17:37 on Jun 10, 2020

Crowetron
Apr 29, 2009

A friend of mine got the Borderlands 3 dlcs and I decided to bite the bullet and join him for some co-op fun. There have been a lot of balance changes since I put the game down and most of them are really fun. But there's still two glaring problems that never went away.

If you do any of the side quests, you will be overleved by a huge degree, and the loot drops in this loot game are tied to the area level not yours. So enemies go down super easy and drop boring stuff. In the DLC, areas scale to whatever level you were when you first got there. As a result, we had a much more fun and engaging time in the DLC zones but came out the other side even more overleveled for the regular campaign. I know there's players who just want to hit max level asap, but given that so many other things added by patches have a toggle in the menu, why not add a toggle to scale areas to player level before you hit NG+?

Also, I cannot believe they haven't added in a way to skip the many scenes where you get locked in a room and have to listen to Lilith or whoever else talk about bullshit. Even if the story was good (it's not, it's Borderlands), the game is designed to be replayed multiple times on multiple modes as various characters. This is a pace killer in every game that does it, and BL3 is the worst for it. Doom 2016 did it once and that scene lasts 60 seconds tops. BL3 does it at least 2 dozen times. Just let me click on the person speaking to skip to the next line or something. They aren't hiding loading or anything, it's just bad scripting.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

DrBouvenstein posted:

Bought Command and Conquer: Remastered, and it's been a LONG time since I played any C&C game, let alone the original, and I forgot that friendly fire exist, and most units are too stupid to not get hit by it.

Example:
In one of the earliest missions, you have to destroy several SAM sites so you can call in an airstrike to take out a NOD base. The only units you can create at this point, since it's like the 3rd or 4th mission, are regular infantry and grenadier units. Bizarrely, and against general laws of physics, the grenadiers have a longer range for their hand-thrown grenades than the infantry do for their guns. So if you have a group of them you're trying to attack ANYTHING, be it the SAM sites or enemy units, if it's a mixed group of grenadiers and infantry attacking, the infantry will get in too close and get hit by the splash damage of the grenadiers.

you're complaining about that and not the fact that grenadiers have infinite range on their throwing arm, and are only held back by the puny limits of their human vision?

A HUNGRY MOUTH
Nov 3, 2006

date of birth: 02/05/88
manufacturer: mazda
model/year: 2008 mazda6
sexuality: straight, bi-curious
peircings: pusspuss



Nap Ghost

Crowetron posted:

Also, I cannot believe they haven't added in a way to skip the many scenes where you get locked in a room and have to listen to Lilith or whoever else talk about bullshit. Even if the story was good (it's not, it's Borderlands), the game is designed to be replayed multiple times on multiple modes as various characters. This is a pace killer in every game that does it, and BL3 is the worst for it. Doom 2016 did it once and that scene lasts 60 seconds tops. BL3 does it at least 2 dozen times. Just let me click on the person speaking to skip to the next line or something. They aren't hiding loading or anything, it's just bad scripting.

I say the Pre-Sequel is just barely worse, if only because it loves to have the NPC do schtick for a solid 45 seconds and then hand you something important, so gently caress you if you already walked away (you did. you did it 43 seconds ago).

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug

A HUNGRY MOUTH posted:

I say the Pre-Sequel is just barely worse, if only because it loves to have the NPC do schtick for a solid 45 seconds and then hand you something important, so gently caress you if you already walked away (you did. you did it 43 seconds ago).

It usually wouldn’t even give you the objective marker until they were done talking, which is really stupid when the series has always let you listen to NPC dialog even after you’ve wandered off. I enjoy the borderlands games but the pre-sequel was so bad.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


The pre-sequel is okay if you ignore the dialogue and stay for the gunplay. The game has the opposite problem of Borderlands 2 where it is impossible to hit the level requirement without beating every sidequest.

If there's any shooter that prides itself for it's replay value then it should prefer skippable-cinematics over half-life walking and talking. The Far Cry series is a painful example of the latter.

PancakeTransmission
May 27, 2007

You gotta improvise, Lisa: cloves, Tom Collins mix, frozen pie crust...


Plaster Town Cop

CJacobs posted:

Doom Eternal gives you all of the power-ups from the previous game in the first like 30 seconds (chainsaw, double jump, suit mod chips and weapon upgrade bots), and you've got all of the new ones by level 3 or 4 (the dash, blood punch, grenade launcher/flamethrower).
And yet it still felt worse. Instead of being this big scary Doom Slayer, you're a dude that runs out of ammo every 15 seconds and has to run around swapping through weapons and using the chainsaw constantly. I still enjoyed the game, finished it (eventually). But about 1/3 in, I bounced off it and didn't come back for a few weeks because I didn't like how much they changed the gameplay.

Crowetron posted:

Also, I cannot believe they haven't added in a way to skip the many scenes where you get locked in a room and have to listen to Lilith or whoever else talk about bullshit. Even if the story was good (it's not, it's Borderlands), the game is designed to be replayed multiple times on multiple modes as various characters. This is a pace killer in every game that does it, and BL3 is the worst for it. Doom 2016 did it once and that scene lasts 60 seconds tops. BL3 does it at least 2 dozen times. Just let me click on the person speaking to skip to the next line or something. They aren't hiding loading or anything, it's just bad scripting.
They sorely need a mode like D3's Bounty mode. I played through to the end with one character, but doing that with the other characters fills me with dread (and so haven't done it). The only good thing they had was that if you have joined someone's MP game and completed quests (that you hadn't reached yet), when you resume your single player game, you can choose to skip those quests.

PancakeTransmission has a new favorite as of 13:11 on Jun 10, 2020

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007

Oh no!😱

A HUNGRY MOUTH posted:

(re: minor Gungeon spoilers) I wish the game would make it clear that it holds only minimal, situational endgame benefit for players who already know what they're doing. I feel like the ridiculously huge costs are meant to be discouraging, but I've seen so many new players think, "That's so expensive, it must be great!" Then they make it their top priority when they aren't even reliably beating the stage they want to skip and become frustrated at having to accumulate all those resources.

Yeah, I've platted Gungeon (base game, still got a few trophies from the free dlc that I'll never get. gently caress Challenge mode as a for instance) and I'd seriously advise not bothering about the elevators unless you happen to notice you are most of the way anyway. Like if you suddenly realise at the end of act 1 you are holding 3 keys and a bunch of cash (RNG just falls that way sometimes, or maybe you gambled on the lockpick and won, or the A-Key 47 (or drill) was in the first chest you opened) then sure, try and gather the remaining key and money for the elevator, but otherwise... I've completed all the elevators and I think I've used them literally twice after completing them. Once to see it working, again on a lower floor to see the thing where they give you a gun to make up for you skipping so many floors.

Again, and I say this every time, Gungeon is far from perfect. They should let you donate keys/money/trash/whatever to the elevator restoration a few at a time rather than "all at once or dont waste my time", and they should let you do it out of order. Just give you a laundry list of "heres what the elevator will need" and let you check it off piecemeal in any order. And I will never accept the "items/ammo left on the ground are lost" as good game design. Its dumb as hell. There is nothing in the game that would be broken by letting you teleport to the shop to sell your current active item, then teleport back to get your new one, or let you finish the next room and come back to pick up ammo for the gun you use to do that. Even as an experienced player there is a noticable difficulty spike on floor 4.

The routes to the secret levels should remain open once you have opened them once as well, dont make me get 2 spare keys on floor one every time I want to visit the Oublette. Buying the rat key should be like completing the bullet that kills the past; Once its done once, its done forever. And I get its a post game, and the clue is in the name, but drat bullet hells difficulty is ridiculous compared to floor 5. If you think the main game is too RNG dependent you should see challenge mode, where certain combinations of abilities make it pretty much impossible to not take damage in certain rooms, and will flat out kill you against certain bosses. While we are on bosses, they are not particularly well balanced either, each floor has one possible boss that is much harder than the others. I can clown the Beholster or Gorgun the vast majority of the time on floor 2 for example, but the Ammoconda is a real bastard every time.

But it is so far improved from launch that I recommend it as a good twinstick roguelike worth playing. They have loosened up on keys (to let you get guns) and ammo (to let you use guns) so much that its like night and day from launch, and it gives you a steady drip of unlocks that my lizard brain craves. I'd always recommend that a starting player use the hunter at first because they start with a decent enough gun (the crossbow) and their passive gets them more keys and ammo as well.

Personally I just dont click with Nuclear Throne, which is disappointing because back when Enter the Gungeon was as tight as a dolphins arsehole about drops I wished I'd bought nuclear throne instead. Finally picked it up earlier this year I just cant get used to it. I think the furthest I've managed to get is like the scrapyard (3-1 or 3-2 maybe?). Unlocked a few characters but on the average run I dont feel like I achieve much.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012

Fun Shoe

Inspector Gesicht posted:

The pre-sequel is okay if you ignore the dialogue and stay for the gunplay. The game has the opposite problem of Borderlands 2 where it is impossible to hit the level requirement without beating every sidequest.

If there's any shooter that prides itself for it's replay value then it should prefer skippable-cinematics over half-life walking and talking. The Far Cry series is a painful example of the latter.
Nah. It goes "your next objective is ahead of you, oh no a bridge collapsed/entrance is blocked/some other bullshit explanation and now you can't go there, go take this detour through three other zones" like every single story quest. Gunplay and buttslams are alright but the game as a whole really isn't.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



Picked up AC Odyssey for a song and it's pretty fun, but one thing that really bugs me how they handle using your bird buddy to find and mark mission objectives. That's nice and all, but the game apparently does not care that you know how to do it, and throws up a big OBJECTIVE IN PROXIMITY, PRESS UP TO CALL SENU box in the middle of your screen that (as far as I can tell) is permanent as long as there's a possible objective active. Like, I've successfully used the dozens of times and maybe I don't want to find and mark all five current objectives right now, just shut it off :arghfist:

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


Captain Hygiene posted:

Picked up AC Odyssey for a song and it's pretty fun, but one thing that really bugs me how they handle using your bird buddy to find and mark mission objectives. That's nice and all, but the game apparently does not care that you know how to do it, and throws up a big OBJECTIVE IN PROXIMITY, PRESS UP TO CALL SENU box in the middle of your screen that (as far as I can tell) is permanent as long as there's a possible objective active. Like, I've successfully used the dozens of times and maybe I don't want to find and mark all five current objectives right now, just shut it off :arghfist:

You can turn that off in HUD options (I think it's the last setting).

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



exquisite tea posted:

You can turn that off in HUD options (I think it's the last setting).

Oh thank god, that was so fundamental I didn't even think to consider it might be in the options.

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

Captain Hygiene posted:

Oh thank god, that was so fundamental I didn't even think to consider it might be in the options.
you can turn off a lot of the awful handholding poo poo and I recommend doing it immediately

Ruffian Price
Sep 17, 2016

NFS Payback's credits are a mess of typos in first names, double spaces and clumsily pasted-in third party software disclaimers. I'm embarrassed for them just reading this poo poo. This is right after the final race that has the music cut off at the same moment every time (guess it's meant to switch to the dynamic score and it doesn't load) so maybe the testers never got that far

Casey Finnigan
Apr 30, 2009

Dumb ✔
So goddamn crazy ✔
I am so disappointed by Nioh. I got it because I love the Souls games, Bloodborne, and Sekiro. Nioh just... does not rank up there with those games.

The battle system in the game is very good, and the game is mostly about fighting, so that's a huge positive. Everything else, though... The story is really bad and the "dying thoughts" that you sometimes hear when you pick up items don't even seem to make sense about half the time (not that important because the story never comes up in gameplay, really). Level design is very weak and there's some real cargo cult elements to the design where the team was just copying Souls games. Like, the levels pretty much all have shortcuts despite being very short themselves, and sometimes they really need to contrive situations for these shortcuts to be useful. Nioh uses a Diablo-esque loot system, which I can't stand, but whatever, that's a personal thing.

The absolute worst thing is the boss design, though. The gameplay in the actual levels is fine, the boss fights are a loving disaster. Like, the second boss Hino-Enma is awful. I'm playing a game where I can swap into my speed stance, run up to the enemy and swing dual swords in their face a hundred times like a blender. So I decided to try to fight the boss that way.

But no, if you want to be speedy in light armor, you not only take a massive amount of damage from every attack, but also your stamina bar takes a massive hit when you block an attack, and if it hits zero you have to stand still and be vulnerable for five minutes. Meaning that if you don't dodge everything perfectly, almost every attack a boss throws out is a one-hit kill if you wear light armor. Hino-Enma has three different close-range attacks, two that require a dodge backwards, and one that requires a dodge forwards, if you want to avoid all damage. I spent ages trying to get the timing down for those dodges so I could continue attacking the boss while staying in her face, and I was completely unable to ever get the timings consistent. If you mess up even a tiny bit and get a scratch, you're as good as dead. I ended up beating the boss by just running around her in a circle and baiting her attacks, then running up, slicing, and dashing away. I took 0 damage, and had 0 fun. You can wear heavy armor, but then your stamina regenerates extra slowly.

The feeling of inconsistency with the timing of dodges really drives me up a wall and I'm pretty sure I'm going to drop the game because of it. If you look online, a lot of Nioh players don't even seem to be able to agree whether the dodges have iframes. In the fight with Nue, the first couple times I fought, I was able to easily dodge his lightning beam by just dashing over it twice while in mid-stance. Then the next few times I fought Nue, that didn't work anymore. The first few times I did the duel with Tachibana Muneshige, I was able to dodge his quickdraw sword slash by just dashing forward when he was about to draw the sword. The next few times, that didn't work anymore. Seems like every time I walk into a boss fight, half my tactics work and half of them don't, at random. It's also frustrating that "run away from the boss in a circle" is such an effective strategy, because it's so boring and I'd rather just not fight the boss than fight them that way. Every time I win, I don't feel like I learned how to beat the boss or that my skills have improved - I just think "thank god that's over with"

Casey Finnigan has a new favorite as of 01:49 on Jun 13, 2020

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
I've just started playing Arkham Knight for the first time, after completing all of the other Arkham games back-to-back, and it frankly feels like it's a bit of a step back. City nailed the perfect open-world Batman formula, but this one feels more like "GTA but with batman" in its overworld approach, and the inclusion of the Batmobile seems to be to the game's detriment. It's cool for about 5 minutes, but introduces a bunch of new quite mediocre mechanics to the game and then forces you to use them instead of doing what the previous games did right: being Batman, gliding/ziplining across the city at breakneck speed and pouncing on thugs.

It also seems like there's way too many little quasi-minigame mechanics and interaction points that take control away from the player for brief, but annoying periods of time, and there are little 5-second cutscenes every couple of minutes where you just have to stare at yourself looking at your wrist communicator.

Flying around the city there's fewer groups of roving enemies, and when I do find one, half of them run away from the fight.

The enemies I've been fighting so far all seem to be fairly boring in their presentation, largely just wearing military armour, and don't have the visual flavour of the henchmen belonging to the various gangs of previous iterations.

Asylumn was a fantastic game, and probably the most tightly-designed one in the series, City pretty much represents the high watermark with its increased freedom of movement and ability to tackle a bunch of tasks in any order, and Origins was basically City with more of the same, but it feels like with this one they've tried to push the evolution of the game too far in the wrong direction and I'm not enjoying it as much so far. Just got to the Ace Chemical factory at this point, hopefully it picks up.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
The Batmobile stuff is a bit frontloaded but it never goes away entirely and never gets good either.

Trudis
Mar 23, 2008

This is the Dawning of the Age of Hilarious

Casey Finnigan posted:


The absolute worst thing is the boss design, though. The gameplay in the actual levels is fine, the boss fights are a loving disaster. Like, the second boss Hino-Enma is awful. I'm playing a game where I can swap into my speed stance, run up to the enemy and swing dual swords in their face a hundred times like a blender. So I decided to try to fight the boss that way.


If you can get past all the other things (which didn't seem that little really) Nioh 2 bosses I found to be much better balanced. There is nothing remotely like Hino-Enma in terms of bosses, though there are rear end in a top hat yokai who kinda borrow her shtick.

The Mighty Moltres
Dec 21, 2012

Come! We must fly!


Breetai posted:

I've just started playing Arkham Knight for the first time, after completing all of the other Arkham games back-to-back, and it frankly feels like it's a bit of a step back. City nailed the perfect open-world Batman formula, but this one feels more like "GTA but with batman" in its overworld approach, and the inclusion of the Batmobile seems to be to the game's detriment. It's cool for about 5 minutes, but introduces a bunch of new quite mediocre mechanics to the game and then forces you to use them instead of doing what the previous games did right: being Batman, gliding/ziplining across the city at breakneck speed and pouncing on thugs.

It also seems like there's way too many little quasi-minigame mechanics and interaction points that take control away from the player for brief, but annoying periods of time, and there are little 5-second cutscenes every couple of minutes where you just have to stare at yourself looking at your wrist communicator.

Flying around the city there's fewer groups of roving enemies, and when I do find one, half of them run away from the fight.

The enemies I've been fighting so far all seem to be fairly boring in their presentation, largely just wearing military armour, and don't have the visual flavour of the henchmen belonging to the various gangs of previous iterations.

Asylumn was a fantastic game, and probably the most tightly-designed one in the series, City pretty much represents the high watermark with its increased freedom of movement and ability to tackle a bunch of tasks in any order, and Origins was basically City with more of the same, but it feels like with this one they've tried to push the evolution of the game too far in the wrong direction and I'm not enjoying it as much so far. Just got to the Ace Chemical factory at this point, hopefully it picks up.

I loved Arkham Asylum, so the moment I completed it I bought Arkham City.
I got about 1/3 of the way through it, then it would not. stop. crashing.

Brother Entropy
Dec 27, 2009

i liked the batmobile stuff but it definitely would've been better in some other IP than batman

rydiafan
Mar 17, 2009


Where did Riddler find the time or money to build all those racetracks?

Trudis
Mar 23, 2008

This is the Dawning of the Age of Hilarious

rydiafan posted:

Where did Riddler find the time or money to build all those racetracks?

Crime?

Crowetron
Apr 29, 2009

Time trials are not a riddle, Nygma. This is why everyone hates you.

oldpainless
Oct 30, 2009

This 📆 post brought to you by RAID💥: SHADOW LEGENDS👥.
RAID💥: SHADOW LEGENDS 👥 - It's for your phone📲TM™ #ad📢

rydiafan posted:

Where did Riddler find the time or money to build all those racetracks?

That’s the riddle

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters

Crowetron posted:

Time trials are not a riddle, Nygma. This is why everyone hates you.

Riddle me this, batman: uh....go real fast!

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.
I think my favourite lines in Arkham Knight involve late-game Riddler quests: Catwoman and Batman end up dodging circular saws in his lair, and the first time they pass she's just like "How is this even a Riddle?" Then the pass again and she comes out with a frustrated "STILL not a Riddle Eddie!"

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money
So a friend and I have been playing all 3 Dark Souls games co-op. We started with 3, started playing 2's Scholar Edition about halfway through and then started 1's Remastered Edition about a sixth of the way through that. So we're playing all 3 games alternatively when we feel like it, and I've got to say: I don't like Dark Souls anymore. I love Dark Souls 2, and I've come to realize that the poo poo I've talked about not liking 3 aren't as egregious as I thought they were, and that 1 is actually kind of really not fun to play through anymore, especially compared to both games that came after it (and god forbid Bloodborne, if you want to count that) and my nostalgia has just kind of faded I guess.

Let's start with co-op and multiplayer: even with the stuff added in the remastered edition to make it less bad, 1's online is awful. In 2 and 3 if you want to go human you can just pop a human effigy or ember and get to summoning. But not in the first game, in the first game you have to have a humanity (given to you either by eating a humanity item or killing an arbitrary number of monsters) and then burn it at a bonfire. Doing this, of course, respawns all of the enemies. So if all you want is help beating a boss it's just an annoyance. However if you die, you lose not just your souls but all of your humanity so that means you have to return to the bonfire and repeat.

And speaking of returning to bonfires: The lack of an "interconnected world" is one of the biggest complaints levied at Dark Souls 2, but oh man we've just reached the depths and I'm already tired of traversing the same handful of areas to reach other areas to reach the place we died or want to meet up at. If I want to upgrade an item I have to walk halfway across the world to the black smith, or if I want to join the sunlight covenant then I have to walk even further. The world's cool I guess but the shortcuts in 1 barely feel like shortcuts due to how annoying the traversal is. Maybe I'm just spoiled by being able to warp anywhere in the later two games and enjoy the convenience offered by it, but it's way, way preferable to having no fast routes anywhere because even the shortcuts are way too long.

Finally; the actual combat feels way too clunky now. Enemies will do an attack, most of which just seem to have leaping and lunging attacks that just have an infinite hitbox that extends well past their models, or they'll clumsily slash at you and you'll get hit from behind them. If you get grabbed in a back attack then you just freeze and rubber-band snap without any real recourse. It feels messy and bad, especially compared to three which certainly isn't perfect but generally had really good hitboxes and hit detection. In Dark Souls the dogs are a bigger threat than the Capra Demon they accompany because your attacks will just miss them constantly and they'll stunlock you for days. Dogs are never especially fun, but in two and three they're not as obnoxious to deal with and increasingly as I play this game through with a friend I realize that almost every area in Dark Souls is "one of the bad ones" and that you have to wade through a lot of really not fun stuff to play the good bits of Dark Souls, repeatedly, because even once you unlock the warp you can only warp to a handful of specified points.

Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005




Playing Dark Souls entirely in co-op with a specific person feels like trying to force a square peg into a round hole tbh.

Eclipse12
Feb 20, 2008

I'll just say that the only benefit to the elevators in Gungeon is that they help you grind with hunting certain enemies that spawn only on certain floors. Not that that's fun, of course.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
I played Dark Souls 1 just yesterday as I really love it and it's been a few months and I actually agree that it feels a little clunky in hindsight. The main thing that I think hurts it mechanically is that you can only roll in 4 directions while locked on: Toward/away from the enemy and side to side. Rolling is omnidirectional when you're not locked, something they made standard while locked on in 2/3/Bloodborne. It makes the game feel a bit more arcadey I would say, because you always know exactly the direction your character will move when you roll, but it has the knock-on effect of making rolling perilous when you're on a narrow walkway or similar. Lots of times I've wanted to roll out of the way of an attack in Dark Souls 1 but couldn't, because the sideways roll would carry me off a platform or into further danger.

edit: Also I agree that being able to use humanities wherever in Dark Souls 2 and 3 was a good change. Having to go human and then also survive all the way to the boss just to summon someone for it was a bit too harsh, and it encouraged players to summon from right outside the bonfire and just steamroll an area. Being able to do it whenever you want lets you choose when it's the right time right to up the stakes.

CJacobs has a new favorite as of 22:11 on Jun 13, 2020

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


I hated Manus because he was both very big and very fast unlike every other enemy, and that you need to spam the locket over and over again.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

CJacobs posted:

I played Dark Souls 1 just yesterday as I really love it and it's been a few months and I actually agree that it feels a little clunky in hindsight. The main thing that I think hurts it mechanically is that you can only roll in 4 directions while locked on: Toward/away from the enemy and side to side. Rolling is omnidirectional when you're not locked, something they made standard while locked on in 2/3/Bloodborne. It makes the game feel a bit more arcadey I would say, because you always know exactly the direction your character will move when you roll, but it has the knock-on effect of making rolling perilous when you're on a narrow walkway or similar. Lots of times I've wanted to roll out of the way of an attack in Dark Souls 1 but couldn't, because the sideways roll would carry me off a platform or into further danger.

edit: Also I agree that being able to use humanities wherever in Dark Souls 2 and 3 was a good change. Having to go human and then also survive all the way to the boss just to summon someone for it was a bit too harsh, and it encouraged players to summon from right outside the bonfire and just steamroll an area. Being able to do it whenever you want lets you choose when it's the right time right to up the stakes.

Do you still move with reduced speed when locked on in the other games? 'Cause that was the big reason I stopped using it for most fights. Between that and the roll thing I can't help but start to wonder if a non-zero amount of DS1's perceived difficulty was down to people being hobbled by the limitations of lock-on without realizing they were there.

Inspector Gesicht posted:

I hated Manus because he was both very big and very fast unlike every other enemy, and that you need to spam the locket over and over again.

My understanding is that the locket's effect actually lingers a bit and you don't have to spam it nearly as much as you think you do, but I can't speak from experience because he uh, never actually got a chance to cast a spell when I fought him.

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Alexander Hamilton
Dec 29, 2008

Doctor Spaceman posted:

The Batmobile stuff is a bit frontloaded but it never goes away entirely and never gets good either.

I stopped playing when the Batmobile gets destroyed and you think you’re finally done with it and then another one immediately gets deployed to you.

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