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H.P. Hovercraft posted:what would be interesting is seeing how various governments would hafta tackle traffic enforcement without patrol cops. it'd be cameras everywhere i think Or just have traffic patrol cops but don't give them guns or give them the power to enforce warrants or do contraband searches. There is absolutely no reason traffic stops are for anything other than traffic violations except that cops literally cannot solve any crimes ever but if they pull over enough people maybe they'll luck into solving something or being able to pretend they did.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:07
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Stereotype posted:Cop procedural television shows have convinced everyone that police solve crimes all day when in reality that isn't even a part of their job. yeppp for even kinda big cities it's around 25%, and that's just cases that end in "identification of a suspect" and maybe an arrest. and they play around with the numbers to even get it that high. basically you can probably get away with murder, or really any crime that isn't just stealing a rich guy's money
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Jun 16, 2020 23:08
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wtf thats bullshit traffic cops solve the city budget issue every year 
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Jun 16, 2020 23:09
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Agile Vector posted:wtf thats bullshit traffic cops solve the city budget issue every year I used to watch public access local municipal budget meetings on tv in the background and I still distinctly remember some councilman asked some city accountant why they couldn't increase the amount of money they were getting from traffic tickets. The accountant was like "well this is just an estimate based on previous years, an increase in compliance could also end up lowering the amount so you shouldn't rely on it too much." Like, why did he have to explain that? It's criminal that traffic fines don't all get used to give financial assistance to pedestrians killed by motorists or something. There shouldn't be an incentive to just write more tickets uncorrelated to compliance.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:15
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politicians are often stupid as gently caress
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Jun 16, 2020 23:18
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Stereotype posted:Or just have traffic patrol cops but don't give them guns or give them the power to enforce warrants or do contraband searches. There is absolutely no reason traffic stops are for anything other than traffic violations except that cops literally cannot solve any crimes ever but if they pull over enough people maybe they'll luck into solving something or being able to pretend they did. disarming the cops absolutely has to happen, but lol the howling you'd hear about it. i bet they'd all quit i once had a project kickoff meeting for roadway safety improvements out in this extremely rural parish, like they were so poor that they didn't really even have a local government, which is a thing in some places in louisiana anyway, so the meeting is at this newish little office building that the cops are sharing with the department of homeland security. and one of the DOH guys in charge is there in the conference room along with the sheriff, since their offices were all there i guess. they're both these older fat guys, and they both are wearing just office clothes, but of course also sporting their gun belts, because it's super important to be armed at all times during your regularass office day. who knows what could happen at this meeting about rail crossing improvements, poo poo might go down you never know
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Jun 16, 2020 23:19
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President Beep posted:politicians are often stupid as gently caress I've been getting very active in local politics and yeah it's real bad
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Jun 16, 2020 23:20
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its funny that we have more paramilitaries running around with guns all the time than our actually military does
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Jun 16, 2020 23:21
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Stereotype posted:I've been getting very active in local politics and yeah it's real bad unfortunately a lot of people get into local politics because they think they have the secret simple answers and then all they do is grandstand without getting anything done, or worse yet they become obstructionist. good luck to you. it’s something i will never get involved in.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:24
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Stereotype posted:I used to watch public access local municipal budget meetings on tv in the background and I still distinctly remember some councilman asked some city accountant why they couldn't increase the amount of money they were getting from traffic tickets. The accountant was like "well this is just an estimate based on previous years, an increase in compliance could also end up lowering the amount so you shouldn't rely on it too much." Like, why did he have to explain that? It's criminal that traffic fines don't all get used to give financial assistance to pedestrians killed by motorists or something. There shouldn't be an incentive to just write more tickets uncorrelated to compliance. yikes! thats like, sheesh Stereotype posted:I've been getting very active in local politics and yeah it's real bad its really true especially at the local level. im not quite to the point where id want to be involved directly but im getting there every day. i was off and on in my old town and it feels good but also a bit tiring, good luck!
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Jun 16, 2020 23:29
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i know i've told this story before, but it's a pretty good example of how useless cops can be. one late night my girlfriend had her car stolen in front of a bar. we reported it that night. the next day we waited and waited to hear from them and then went out to look for ourselves. at about 11:30 am we found it in an empty parking lot less than a block away from where it was stolen. we called the police and said we found it, so they sent out an officer to meet us. a half hour later, this motherfucker drove right past us while we were waving and yelling at him. he eventually turned around and came back, glanced at the car, and i guess that was the whole investigation. tax dollars at work.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:31
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Roosevelt posted:i know i've told this story before, but it's a pretty good example of how useless cops can be. one late night my girlfriend had her car stolen in front of a bar. we reported it that night. the next day we waited and waited to hear from them and then went out to look for ourselves. at about 11:30 am we found it in an empty parking lot less than a block away from where it was stolen. we called the police and said we found it, so they sent out an officer to meet us. a half hour later, this motherfucker drove right past us while we were waving and yelling at him. he eventually turned around and came back, glanced at the car, and i guess that was the whole investigation. tax dollars at work.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:34
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I had to go to the police station to file the report for a hit and run on my car otherwise the cops weren't going to care a cop didn't even do it, it was like some office worker
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Jun 16, 2020 23:34
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Roosevelt posted:i know i've told this story before, but it's a pretty good example of how useless cops can be. one late night my girlfriend had her car stolen in front of a bar. we reported it that night. the next day we waited and waited to hear from them and then went out to look for ourselves. at about 11:30 am we found it in an empty parking lot less than a block away from where it was stolen. we called the police and said we found it, so they sent out an officer to meet us. a half hour later, this motherfucker drove right past us while we were waving and yelling at him. he eventually turned around and came back, glanced at the car, and i guess that was the whole investigation. tax dollars at work. locally, almost every recovered stolen car that I'm aware of has been because the owner of the car went out looking for it and called the cops when they found it the only case where that's not true is an incident where they were doing a drug raid and we like 'oh hey, this guy has 20 cars on his lot, maybe we should run the vins' the cars were not hidden in any way
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Jun 16, 2020 23:38
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as far as I know the SOP for stolen cars is "we flag this car as stolen in our database" and then maybe someone patrolling will accidentally find it when they run the number for whatever reason there is no active hunting for them, so yeah looking for yourself will probably get faster results
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Jun 16, 2020 23:41
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obviously its completely defeated if the thieves can swap plates in a convincing manner or just sell the car to a less then reputable salvager or sell the car in another state
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Jun 16, 2020 23:42
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Arcteryx Anarchist posted:as far as I know the SOP for stolen cars is "we flag this car as stolen in our database" and then maybe someone patrolling will accidentally find it when they run the number for whatever reason
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Jun 16, 2020 23:43
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they have to use them to aid in their actual job of terrorizing non-whites, no time for criminal interventions
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Jun 16, 2020 23:44
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Jonny 290 posted:i had five Fayetteville cop cars surround me and a total of about 1800 pounds of bacon came lumbering out of their cars screaming and pointing handguns at me because I was walking down the railroad tracks in the middle of town to get to work at 9:30 on a Saturday morning. fort smith cops got me evicted after a robbery 
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Jun 16, 2020 23:51
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when i got hit by a car on my motorcycle the EMTs fully treated and released me and said "Uhh if you wanna wait for Denver PD it's a four hour wait, or you can just go home and stop by the police station within 30 days". I sat there on the curb for two hours waiting for my ride, watching a couple of beat pigs sitting in their Explorer on the sidewalk on the street corner 75 feet away hooting at hot drunk girls. Then I went home.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:58
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DELETE CASCADE posted:you can't really abolish the police because sometimes a murder does need to be investigated, but that is such a vanishingly small part of what the police do, most of which is unnecessary harassment that doesn't make us any safer, that you can totally defund the police to the tune of like 90% and america will only get better as a result The police murder 1000 people a year, how many do their murder investigations prevent?
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Jun 17, 2020 00:00
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Stereotype posted:Or just have traffic patrol cops but don't give them guns or give them the power to enforce warrants or do contraband searches. There is absolutely no reason traffic stops are for anything other than traffic violations except that cops literally cannot solve any crimes ever but if they pull over enough people maybe they'll luck into solving something or being able to pretend they did. They don't even have to get out of the car or even stop. See someone speeding or whatever -> roll up behind them -> note the tag -> drive past and snap a pic of the driver. No cars have to stop, no one in danger, ticket in the mail.
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Jun 17, 2020 00:00
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The people who are most against abolishing the police have never actually had to interact with them in any way and and are shrieking about law and order because of what they learned from cheap television dramas they only vaguely remember. If you've ever had to interact with the police you are at worst fine with abolishing them and at best militantly enthusiastic about abolishing them.
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Jun 17, 2020 00:26
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Arcteryx Anarchist posted:I had to go to the police station to file the report for a hit and run on my car otherwise the cops weren't going to care In Cleveland the police will not come out for an accident if both vehicles are operable. You have to do to the precinct yourself to file a report. Buddy got rear ended once by someone who was eating cereal instead of paying attention to the road (they literally had cereal all over themselves). Cop was right on the scene and had to apologize when he realized they where one street over and in Cleveland instead of Lakewood and not in his jurisdiction and therefore couldn't file a report.
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Jun 17, 2020 01:13
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RZA Encryption posted:They don't even have to get out of the car or even stop. See someone speeding or whatever -> roll up behind them -> note the tag -> drive past and snap a pic of the driver. No cars have to stop, no one in danger, ticket in the mail. in a lot of places in canada we have photo radar they set it up, it takes a picture if you speed by, you get your ticket in the mail a few days later you don't get points on your license because they don't verify who is actually driving but it's a lot less dangerous overall
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Jun 17, 2020 01:57
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Stereotype posted:The people who are most against abolishing the police have never actually had to interact with them in any way and and are shrieking about law and order because of what they learned from cheap television dramas they only vaguely remember. If you've ever had to interact with the police you are at worst fine with abolishing them and at best militantly enthusiastic about abolishing them. at one of the BLM protests i went to i saw a sign that read ABOLISH THE POLICE is the goal DEFUND THE POLICE is a strategy gently caress THE POLICE is the attitude
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Jun 17, 2020 02:09
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Cold on a Cob posted:in a lot of places in canada we have photo radar we have these all over the place lol
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Jun 17, 2020 02:10
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:disarming the cops absolutely has to happen, but lol the howling you'd hear about it. i bet they'd all quit "nooo, don't give the reformists what they want, or else we'll give the abolitionists what they want"
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Jun 17, 2020 03:33
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Oops, looks like the coronavirus has gotten out in new zealand Maybe now the kiwis can quit being so goddamned smug about their "functional government" and "public health system"
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Jun 17, 2020 04:56
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Sagebrush posted:Oops, looks like the coronavirus has gotten out in new zealand more evidence that “no english allowed” is a good policy for the eu, nz, ireland, etc.
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Jun 17, 2020 05:08
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looks like if you're rona free you have to pretty much ban all international travel unless to a nation that is also rona free (and also bans international travel to ronaland)
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Jun 17, 2020 05:11
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Really you just have to actually enforce your quarantines instead of letting people skip it just because they really really want to
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Jun 17, 2020 05:16
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mask recommendations is an interesting datapoint. clearly they directly help a bit (the effect seems to be pretty small, but anything better than nothing), but also they make compliance with rules entirely visible to everyone. which can be great if you have a majority in compliance (the remaining few are under social pressure to comply), but bad when compliance is poor, as the clearly visible fact that few people are complying with recommendations discourages everyone. so without a mask recommendation you may have more success advising distancing in some cases (e.g. potentially much of the us), despite a mask recommendation obviously being excellent for much of asia.
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Jun 17, 2020 09:12
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Jabor posted:Really you just have to actually enforce your quarantines instead of letting people skip it just because they really really want to you should probably even in this situation be happy that you live in a country without the resources to actually police the actions of the entire population simultaneously. despite it putting the pandemic response to a great extent in the arena of personal responsibility.
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Jun 17, 2020 09:15
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:you should probably even in this situation be happy that you live in a country without the resources to actually police the actions of the entire population simultaneously. despite it putting the pandemic response to a great extent in the arena of personal responsibility. it's entirely reasonable to enforce a quarantine on people entering the country to minimize the chance of them carrying unknowingly carrying the virus, which is what new zealand does in general except if you ask really nicely
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Jun 17, 2020 09:49
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:mask recommendations is an interesting datapoint. clearly they directly help a bit (the effect seems to be pretty small, but anything better than nothing), but also they make compliance with rules entirely visible to everyone. which can be great if you have a majority in compliance (the remaining few are under social pressure to comply), but bad when compliance is poor, as the clearly visible fact that few people are complying with recommendations discourages everyone. I disagree that the effect seems to be pretty small. Why do you think the effect is small? Places with high mask compliance have overall lower infection rates. Just wear a mask because it really does help.
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Jun 17, 2020 10:06
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Stereotype posted:I disagree that the effect seems to be pretty small. Why do you think the effect is small? Places with high mask compliance have overall lower infection rates. actual research has historically struggled to establish a large effect. Jabor posted:it's entirely reasonable to enforce a quarantine on people entering the country to minimize the chance of them carrying unknowingly carrying the virus, which is what new zealand does in general except if you ask really nicely oh yeah, didn't read the post well enough, just closing borders is perfectly doable yeah. i thought you were clamoring for police marching the streets to keep people in their homes, which would help a lot but requires a capability which is a bit scary to have. Cybernetic Vermin fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 10:11
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Stereotype posted:I disagree that the effect seems to be pretty small. Why do you think the effect is small? Places with high mask compliance have overall lower infection rates. Right now across the country the number of infections per day seems to be pretty constant for the past couple months, so R ~= 1 If masks were only 15% effective and we started using them, we'd have R ~= .85, leading to new infections halving every 2 months or so
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Jun 17, 2020 10:13
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The best example is if you use a juul or a vape and breathe the smoke out normally and then breathe the smoke out through a mask. When you do it through a mask the visible plume goes a significantly shorter distance, which is the whole point. I can blow a plume across the room, but not through a mask. It usually lingers by your head and body where it will get stuck to you and it rapidly dissipates. The important thing is it is not immediately breathed into someone else's lungs. This is a lung disease and the primary transfer is clearly from lung to lung so dramatically reducing this type of transmission will radically decrease spread. One virus protein won't make you get it, so you don't need a bubble; you really need a bunch of them for it to take hold in your body. If I'm wrong who cares gently caress you masks are fine just wear one. Put a picture of a skull or a cat on it and be an individual. Buy a dozen of them from some local seamstress so you just have them everywhere.
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Jun 17, 2020 10:14
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again, yeah, obviously do anything that is easy and helps. but what is *not* a small effect is keeping your distance, staying home when sick, and washing your hands. those are known gigantic factors. so what i was saying is that if seeing poor mask compliance make people go "gently caress it", feel no social pressure to do anything, and thus dropping all the other efforts it can easily cause things to get worse. which is not the masks fault of course. just a disturbing quirk of psychology.
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Jun 17, 2020 10:18
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